Talking about... Mental health and suicide prevention

Emma: Hi, Eve!

Eve: Hello!

Emma: How are you doing today?

Eve: I’m good, thank you. How are you?

Emma: Yeah, very good, warm and enjoying the sunshine! Eve, thank you ever so much for taking the time to chat about your work as a mental health first aider and what you've been doing lately. And I thought this would be a really good way to share with colleagues what it is you've done, talk a little bit about the sort of things that are coming up on the horizon that you'd like colleagues' support with and how they can get involved with some of what you're doing, but also access some of the stuff that perhaps you've learned and learn from you different areas to do with mental health. So to kick off, I thought maybe it would be good to just ask you a little bit about who you are, what you do at CFG, and also about your role as a mental health first aider.

Eve: So I work across the membership and the events team, which is incredible because it means I get to work so closely with our members, and I've noticed since I've joined CFG that mental health is at the forefront of so many of our organisations, whether it be that that's their purpose as an organisation or it's just something that they are focusing on within their wider work. And I think you know, getting to have these conversations with our members and with staff as well and colleagues, it really inspired me to want to educate myself and to learn more. And so when I heard that there was scope for a mental health first aid in CFG I thought I'll put myself forward and take part in the training. And I'm now qualified! It was an incredible experience.

Emma: Congratulations! I imagine it's not an easy thing to do. Mental health is a very wide range of issues and it's a big subject, isn't it? And it's one that we're not necessarily always used to talking about. Tell me a bit about the training that you received and the support that you had so that you could become the mental health first aider. Eve: It’s through MHFA England and they have a whole variety of trainings on their website that they run and the one that I chose to do was the First Aid one. I remember actually there was a colleague that used to work at CFG who's moved on. They were a mental health first aider and I got to work closely with them and they would talk about their experience in that role and sort of the training as well. So that was one of the reasons that I thought, oh, this will be something that I definitely have interest in. And it was intense, I chose the two-day course so you can do it across multiple days like maybe an afternoon across like 4 days or you can choose to do 2 full days 9:00 to 5:00, which it was definitely intense. We covered a whole range of topics from different mental health conditions to the actual skills themselves of what it means to be a first aider in mental health. And we did some role-playing, we practised conversational skills, and it was just such a a wonderful experience because my trainer was just fantastic. They had their own lived experience. They've been training for a really long time and what was so interesting about the group that I was with is that we were all from different industries. So there were a couple of us from charities, quite a few people from Scotland with different like more technical industry. There was just like a a really wide variety, so it was really interesting to see what was going on in their workplaces. And kind of how actually the common denominator was mental health and wanting to support people, and it didn't matter what your day to day job was. That was an overarching thing that impacts everyone. And I have also done the physical first aid, so I kind of knew a little bit about that side of it, but I just never considered that actually mental health first aid is just as important as your physical because the two work together. So it was really interesting to to get that other side of it.

Emma: Why do you think it's important to have a mental health first aid or sort of ambassador within an organisation? I think you've touched on it a little bit, but why do you think, not necessarily just for CFG, but why do you think that it's such an important role?

Eve: In our lives, we spend so much time at work and it will mean that whatever's going on in your personal life can heavily impact how you are in the workplace and likewise it can be the workplace that impacts your own personal life. So kind of knowing that there's support out there for whatever it is that you may be going through is so crucial. And I think it's such a taboo subject really still, which is a shame, but knowing that as soon as you enter an organisation you know exactly where you can go for support just instantly can create a really safe space. It might be that in your own personal life you've not known where to go or how to get support. And then you can have a moment with one of your colleagues or in the workplace, and it can completely change everything for you. So I think it's really important that we sort of spotlight these roles and and kind of encourage discussion.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely agree. You can't uncouple your sort of work life from your personal life and you know it's, you can't have performance in one area, not the other. It's just so interlinked, isn't it? I guess the challenge might be that you know you have that person in that role, they're trained, they understand how to manage, you know, the situation that they come up with and where to signpost people and so on.

But I suppose it's still, as you say, a taboo subject and actually on that, I think one of the most taboo subjects, and we'll get around to talking about this, is suicide and suicide prevention. Very keen, aren't you to highlight or spotlight certain awareness days throughout the year. I think that's something you plan to work on. Tell us a little bit more.

Eve: Yeah, yeah, throughout the year, there's so many different awareness days cause as we've said before, mental health, it encompasses so many different things like whether it's different conditions or different ways of helping yourself. There's so much that falls under that umbrella of mental health and mental well-being. And one of those ways, I think, is to use the days that are there, which are these awareness days and we've got one coming up on the 10th of September, which is the world Suicide Prevention Awareness Day. So I really wanted to kind of, you know, I've only recently been trained as a first aider so I thought I'd love to to start the ball rolling on marking out these days and giving them the care and the attention that they deserve to then create these sort of resources packs that kind of go into a little bit more on the topic. Maybe some lived experiences as well. And then you've got your resources, and you know we're very fortunate that we are a charity membership organisation, that we actually have a lot of members that specialise in this area. So to kind of highlight some of them as well, I think it just shows the wealth of help that is out there, but unless you know it, you won't be able to access it. So that's the hope with this.

Emma: That's fantastic. I think you're absolutely right. Using the resources that are already there and available. And as you say, often it's about awareness and or lack of, isn't it? And not knowing that the help and support is there and and often until we have some, maybe just one conversation can change everything because someone highlighting that support, that service, it opens up a whole new avenue, doesn't it for someone. Talking a bit about suicide prevention, you mentioned that you've been working on some resources for that. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the resource that you've been working on to produce. What that involved a little bit?

Eve: Suicide, as we've mentioned before, is such a stigmatised topic. I mean, death in itself is, and then suicide appears even more complex and even more, sort of shamed, so I really wanted to kind of delve into that and educate myself further on the topic. And one of the things that I've included is kind of looking at how prevalent it is and how given that it is such a, you know, a stigmatised and people don't talk about it, but it's so rife in society. It's one of the leading causes of death in the UK, I think it's about 17 people per day die of suicide, which is a shocking figure, and one in five people will experience suicidal thought at some point in their lifetime. And those kind of things, you know, we live in world sometimes where you feel like you're the only one going through something or that you don't deserve the help, or you just need to keep going. It's not a big deal. You're fine. But actually it's kind of recognising you're not alone and that there are people out there that understand what you're going through and want to help. One of the things that can really be like a barrier for someone, cause it is, it's a tough thing to navigate if you're unsure of what to say or how to say it. And that was one thing I learned a lot was the use of language around suicide. So obviously, historically we would use the term committed suicide. I'm sure that's something everyone's heard of and used, you know, in their own lives, but actually those words really perpetuate shame because it comes from a time when suicide was illegal and viewed as a sin. The word committed, I think really enforces that. So it's just kind of recognising actually those words themselves can make someone feel ashamed and therefore not talk about it. So it's kind of changing the language and saying, you know, you can say died by suicide or, the same when it comes to suicide attempts to not use the word successful or unsuccessful because that has a variety of connotations to it. And you can just say survived a suicide attempt. Or died by suicide. So I think that was a real turning point for me and it kind of made me look back on my own experiences and the importance of listening, again, is another key thing. I think that idea that if someone talks to you about how they're feeling is just to listen. I remember on our course, actually, our trainer mentioned this idea of like does what I need to say need to be said right now? Can I pause? Can I wait? And I think that opening up that space for that other person just to keep talking and, letting them speak is really key.

Emma: Absolutely. I think we're always so keen, aren't we, when we want to help, when we know in that position where someone's inviting us in to help to actually sort of fill that space with our own ideas or thoughts. And I think you're absolutely right. One thing that I've learned through the coaching training I've had at CFG is just to use that space and silence for more thinking and more sharing.

Eve: Yeah, I like the silence there, to not be afraid of it.

Emma: I do think it's a skill and I do think also once you're aware of that, the power of that, but also how, I don't know if therapeutic would be the right word. But how useful that is to the other person. It does make you want to zip up. Do you mind me sharing an experience I had today, if that's OK.

Eve: Please do.

Emma: I read through, briefly, your resources that you've been compiling, and I had lifted so much out of it. Today, I went to do some shopping for a lady I volunteer for. I was in the shop, I got briefly chatting to a lady, an elderly lady in there. It was on the chilly side they had obviously whacked the air con up. Anyway, I went about business getting some shopping. Went outside and she wasn't far behind me and she came outside and she immediately just started chatting to me about how she had to wait until I think the end of October to get some results back from a medical scan. And she was distraught. I don't know if she just received news, but she wasn't getting out of her healthcare providers, what she needed. And then she revealed to me that she'd had suicidal thoughts, that she felt that the message from them was that she was washed up, too old. They didn't care, passed it, so she hadn't felt cared for, obviously. And then she said I, you know, I've been thinking about it. Maybe I should throw myself down the stairs or. And in that moment I realised that already learned something from what you had pulled together because I tried not to fill that with too many of my own thoughts. Or come at it with my own tone. So I just let her speak. I was there a little while. Thinking I must get back to work, but actually thinking there's nothing more important than this, is there, creating that space, helping that space to evolve. So I just want to say thank you, because I think that resource that you pulled together was super helpful in that moment and actually not to have a reaction to when she said that to me in a way that made her feel ashamed or judged. I'd like to think I would have done anyway, but I think it just really helped to refine my response to her.

Eve: Gosh, thank you.

Emma: So I think already it's been useful. It was totally unexpected conversation and I think, what that demonstrates Eve, is that you don't know when you might meet somebody and that one conversation they have may make, you know with you, may make all the difference.

Eve: The second you start these conversations, you can see actually that this impacts everyone, whether it's their own lived experiences or someone they've supported or, just it's in everyone's lives. And the second you open those chats, people come and I think that that's just a wonderful thing and well done for chatting with her. Because she might not have had that in any other aspect of her life, and that one conversation with you could just completely change everything.

Emma: The most important step isn't it is just having the start of that conversation or, you know, making space.

Eve: Yeah, I think as well there's that, we've chatted about this before like you shouldn't use the word suicide, you shouldn't ask someone ‘Are you feeling suicidal?’ But actually, the second you do, it just instantly can change the tone and they'll feel safe. They'll be able to share and it kind of takes some of that terrifying element out of it that people have when they're scared to ask those questions. But we need to.

Emma: Absolutely. And I think the other lesson for me was in that moment was this, you know, it cuts across ages. I think it's sometimes you might think about someone who's younger when we are talking about suicide. But actually you know this is part of everyone's mental health. Eve: Because there is that idea of like what a suicidal person looks like. There's always, I know growing up there was that kind of like oh, you know, you would look depressed. It'd be very obvious, but that's not at all what life is, and that's not at all what depression and suicide looks like. So I think it's that, like, there's no age limit, there's no barrier in that sense, it impacts everyone.

Emma: And I think it goes back to the point you made in the resource that you know it's about alleviation from pain, isn't it?

Eve: Yeah, I think that's another kind of common thinking is that someone who is suicidal wants to die, which sometimes it's actually they want the pain to stop and kind of making that distinction that they're two separate things can open up that chance of hope for recovery and for getting help because they still want to be alive. It's just they want what is happening to them to stop, and you can start to to figure out how we can help them with that.

Emma: That's a really good point, and it was, that's why I think your resources is so important. I mean were there any other things that really sort of that struck you when you were researching this and learning more?

Eve: That kind of idea of like how it starts a conversation. So I was, I felt so grateful that when I was sharing what I was researching, that one of our colleagues reached out to me and wanted to share their own experience and I felt just honoured that they trusted me and that they trusted the organisation and it was just an incredible thing for them to have done and it kind of just shows how these conversations are so crucial. And once you start talking about it, someone else can then talk about their experience and it kind of opens all of these different sort of spaces that we can all discuss in, and it shows as well that it does affect everyone. As we've said that, you know, you never know what someone else’s relation to that topic is and it's just being mindful of that I think is another thing that I learned, is that you genuinely have no idea what goes on, so if you go into every interaction with that kind of non-judgmental element, I think it can really create such safe spaces for people to feel comfortable.

Emma: I think it's brilliant, Eve that you've been able to share that lived experience within the document because I think that's something that charities are particularly good at. But I think you're right. I think it's testament to the fact that they feel able to do that within the organisation and that's a big part of it. And organisational culture plays a big part in that, which again goes back to why your role, you know, as mental health first data is so important because it sends a very strong message, doesn't it, about safety of sharing and bringing to work your whole self, which is something we like to say at CFG.

Eve: Yeah. And I feel like it also links to one of our values of support, which you know, I joined the organisation under a year ago and that's something I've felt in such full force. I don't think I've ever felt more supported at work, which is just incredible and it's probably another thing that inspired me to kind of want to continue to be an active person in that support. The theme of world Suicide Prevention Day is create hope through action and I think that phrase of action is something I was really focusing on. And what can I do that can create that hope and hopefully this will be one of the ways.

Emma: Absolutely. It's a really great theme, isn't it? As you say, the word action is empowering. And so when is world Suicide Prevention Day, Eve?

Eve: Yeah. So it's on the 10th of September and it's the same day every year. And this current theme is obviously create hope through action, which I just think is a really invigorating theme actually. I think we kind of, when we look at mental health and we talk about it, it can appear almost passive and that it's just like ideas that we speak of. It's such a raw experience, mental health and it impacts you in all ways physically and mentally. So I think that like action side of it is really sort of linking to that, which is another reason I wanted to highlight that.

Emma And what do you think colleagues can do? I guess if they're interested in learning more, what do you sort of suggest that they do? And speaking of action, you know what are the next steps for you? And what the next steps for others?

Eve: I think definitely the first thing is education. I think we're so fortunate that we live in, in a world where it's, you know, we're very privileged that we can access things on the Internet and we can research and learn. And I hope that through the document that I've, you know, put together with the help of everyone at CFG that like, it's something you can revisit and come back to and you know, maybe you might read something in it and think ‘oh I'd like to know a little bit more about that’ and kind of go away and research it yourself. And I think it's just knowing as well, what's out there. I think this was something actually that, you know, chatting with colleagues that some people didn't realise you could speak to your GP about these things and they can signpost you somewhere or you know, there's some amazing organisations like Samaritans have got a wealth of resources on their website and obviously they have their helpline as well. And then there's another website called ‘If you care share’ they're brilliant. And there's just, you know, I've put a few in the document, but there are some fantastic organisations you can go to whether you need help or you want to educate yourself or you're using it to help someone else. I think the most important thing is just listening. And it's something we all do like in your day-to-day. But there's definitely a difference between listening and active listening. So I think kind of having that moment when you're chatting with someone and you know they, perhaps start speaking about something and you might notice that you know their behaviour, like the way that they're talking about something might suggest that there's something more going on and just taking that moment to be like, are you OK? Like asking that second time and creating, as we said that like moment of silence to leave them with the space to then discuss if they want to. I know I've got so much more still to learn. I'm constantly learning as I go, which is just a wonderful thing I think, and knowing that it's OK if you feel like you're not quite ready yet to talk about things or to enter into that, you can take the time to learn and to observe as well.

Emma: Thank you, Eve. I mean, you know from the bottom of my heart, thank you for raising awareness, bringing all your skills and not just skills, natural empathy to this conversation, but actually to the organisation generally. Because I feel that, you know, having had this opportunity to talk to you about it has been really eye opening for me. And I'm sure for other colleagues has been very beneficial as well and will be beneficial when we share this and your documents. So thank you, just to say that really. You're definitely creating hope through action undoubtedly. And yeah, I'm happy to help take this forward in any other way you know that it's helpful.

Eve: Thank you so much for this opportunity and just for all of your support as well, and just everyone who's supported me with creating this document. But just to everyone in CFG. Whether they've consciously done it or not, everyone has created such a supportive environment and it's been just a pleasure to be a part of it.

Emma: No, thank you, Eve, and thanks for your time. And you know, maybe we'll follow up with something else in the future?

Eve: There will definitely be more to come.

Emma: Excellent, can't wait!

Eve: Thank you so much.

Emma: Much appreciated. Take care.

Eve: Bye.