Tom Gerken 0:00 Can I just can I just can we go? Can I just be clear on this one? I, as you know, I want to be cremated. And I want who has my ashes to be a point of complete contention?

Rich 0:12 Yeah, there are lots of decoy urns, right?

Tom Gerken 0:15 Yeah, I'm gonna leave lots of conflicting opinions written opinions to lots of different people. Like one person made me into jewellery. One person throw me in the sea, you know, but all of them end with but don't split my ashes. Really make make people work for it. You know, hustle. Exactly. Make it makes you live on. Oh, it's a weird way we start the show every week, isn't it? Hello, welcome to our dad's died with me Tom gherkin. And of course rich Spalding. Rich isn't with us this week, as he continues to recover or at least he isn't with us was introduction. And of course the our introduction. He is here during the episode itself as you just heard part of his voice and you had another voice there too. That's the dulcet tones of Katie Norris. Her show farm a towel a work in progress is on the Bill Murray, part of Angel Comedy Club. That is of course in ANGEL in London. She went out she won the musical comedy awards in 2023. How about that for a guest as this that's pretty cool, right? No musical comedy in this episode, but there is some stone cold comedy. She lost her dad a couple of years ago. And her experience of that is the absolutely perfect blend of real and raw and emotional but funny. She really makes me laugh in this episode. I want to say that just in this introduction, that sort of part of the reason for this podcast really is I hoped that we could make the podcast that I wanted to listen to when my dad died You know, it's serious at times, but it's funny, it's trying to make you laugh. And and it'll let you have a bit of emotions too. But it will also really try and put a smile on your face. And I I've had a couple of really lovely messages this week from people saying that it's done just that for them. And I just wanted to really thank them for those messages and and to you all listening. It's incredibly touching that this podcast is able to benefit some people that way I wish it could have benefited something like this could have benefited me so thank you so much for continuing to listen, I won't take up any more of your time. This is a really really funny one. I hope you enjoy it more details and Katie Shea

Rich 2:52 Katie What would you have as your funeral song?

Unknown Speaker 2:56 me singing probably like a

Rich 2:59 recording or are you planning to say good men just pop up in the coffin and wait yeah, maybe

Speaker 3 3:04 that'll rise me from my apparently most popular funeral song is my way Frank Sinatra that wouldn't have

Rich 3:13 no I don't like that as a funeral vibe seems quite I mean funerals are quite self involved but I have my way as well

Tom Gerken 3:22 the bottom line is the ones patient one isn't it i Come on school for some reason but

Rich 3:27 oh bright side you

Tom Gerken 3:28 know yeah always looking great satellites.

Rich 3:30 The Bright Side Yes. Perfect. Mr.

Tom Gerken 3:31 Price of my I've been doing

Speaker 3 3:39 I'd have Mr. Brightside that would be my youth that is all apple bottom jeans. What's with

Rich 3:48 again, a great one. songs that people can't help get into. So no matter how sad it is, if you're walking out of the vibe of the church or the vibe Mr. Brightside comes on, you're going to

Speaker 3 4:02 my ex boyfriends who will be there with love that as well. Something about them?

Rich 4:06 They are going to go daddy hope so.

Unknown Speaker 4:08 I put a shift in didn't know.

Tom Gerken 4:11 What was the point? If not to get the numbers up?

Rich 4:15 It would be it would be great to be able to attend your own funeral wouldn't it? Just see what everyone see? Who made it? See who didn't bother?

Unknown Speaker 4:23 How many funerals have you guys been to? Oh, what

Tom Gerken 4:25 a question. Oh my god. Do we count in like like when you're an adult when it sort of counts? Or when you're a child? Were you sort of dragged to them and you don't really

Unknown Speaker 4:36 I mean Yeah. Them Yeah.

Tom Gerken 4:38 Well, shebang. We're we're I mean we're almost have a double figures I think really quite a lot of funerals. Big family so sort of extended family. So it's a sort of, you know, you would if the cousin died, you'd go to the cousin's funeral, or is that was that probably true?

Rich 4:53 That's fairly normal, but,

Tom Gerken 4:54 but like my mum's, mum's sister. We went to that funeral. So like my grandma sister, we went to her funeral. So that's, I think that's less common funeral for people to go to, I think,

Speaker 3 5:06 do your your parents took you to funerals from a young age then they didn't sort of try and shield you from all of that stuff or anything? No,

Tom Gerken 5:12 no, there we go. Well, my granddad died when I was like, six and I was fine. So I think they were like, oh, yeah, we rely on him.

Unknown Speaker 5:19 Just take into anyone's

Tom Gerken 5:23 whatever we're driving by my dad papi said, no good ones on today.

Speaker 3 5:28 My son is dead inside. I've not done any actually, I've just been to a few. My parent must have a smaller family. My third the first one I've been to is my granddad. So I was about 13. I think that was the first 13 Yeah, and I remember horrifying.

Tom Gerken 5:45 A funeral number one to me.

Speaker 3 5:47 Well, yeah. No, I didn't. I didn't have a passion for going.

Tom Gerken 5:51 No, but what I'm saying is Did nobody die? I mean, did like No, no grandparents died before you were 13. feel like they're

Speaker 3 5:57 all dead before? Yeah. Yeah, cuz my dad was really like my son. My dad's parents died in the sort of 80s or early. Dad quite old. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he's fit. He was born. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he was born in 1940.

Rich 6:16 It was born during the war. Yeah. So I've got three older

Speaker 3 6:19 brothers. The oldest old spunk. Yeah.

Rich 6:25 Which is the best.

Speaker 3 6:27 But ya know. So I have three older brothers, what the eldest one is in his late 50s. Now. And, yeah, so he was married before. But yes, it was kind of strange having a dad from the silent generation as they're called.

Rich 6:41 Yeah. What was he like? Was he very different to other dads when you were young? Yeah.

Speaker 3 6:44 Yeah, definitely. And like when you go to primary school, you're suddenly exposed to all these other dads, who, you know, like, I guess could be as young as 25. And they'd be like your granddad's come to pick you up. And then suddenly, I felt this like in saying that shame around having an old dad, because he was embarrassing as well. He was like, he'd picked my brother up with pants on his head at school and stuff. He's quite like, oh, well,

Rich 7:09 that is. I thought it was an embarrassing move. But yeah. Way to embarrass you there.

Speaker 3 7:16 Yeah. Not only was the old is also Yeah, incredibly humiliating. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't until much later on. I was like, oh, it's actually quite cool. Having an old dad.

Rich 7:24 Yeah. Was that was it sort of when you left school that it started to be cooler or was it?

Speaker 3 7:37 Cool. It's still only now. Yeah, he was he was always he was an actor. So he kind of Yeah, he I thought when I just try to describe him, someone and just kind of like he had this Jim Broadbent quality, you know, the actor general, like quite sweet and like eccentric. And then suddenly, five minutes later, it was Logan Roy from succession. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then sort of peeing in corners of the garden.

Rich 8:11 Was your relationship with him? Change as he got

Unknown Speaker 8:15 older? Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Rich 8:19 Presumably, when when you were like in your 20s He was, I guess that's kind of it'd be like a young granddad but it's kind of granddad age.

Speaker 3 8:27 Yeah, well, when I was 16, he was 66. But yeah, we fought like cat and dog when I was a teenager just because we were. I hate to say it. You know, when you're when people will say we were so similar. My mom respect you so much like your dad. And obviously that's just like, worst thing you can ever say to it hormone or teenage girl that they're like a 66 year old. Logan Roy was right. I think so we used to fight a lot. And also, you know, he was that generation that went he got sent to boarding school. from a really young age. He didn't even really meet teenage girls until he left. So he was 18 he was in boys all boys boarding school. So then suddenly having to live with this teenage girl after having three sons. It was like we were just like yeah, slamming doors, so he just didn't know how to talk to me.

Tom Gerken 9:18 What's What's the situation then with the with the after having three sons? Is that all in your in your family unit? They're all your direct brothers.

Speaker 3 9:26 Yes, a to a half brothers. And then one is my full brother from my mum, who was my dad's second wife.

Tom Gerken 9:33 So I mean, so what's the age difference? And it's starting to sound like you might have quite a bit of an older older brother situation here perhaps?

Speaker 3 9:39 Yes, I've got a 56 year old brother and then a 15 one or 50 year old brother, and then a 34 year old brother me. And I'm 33 So yeah, when I was born, they would look at your dad and maybe they are maybe it's

Rich 9:59 you A lot to it

Tom Gerken 10:03 I've done no research which shows that that's

Unknown Speaker 10:07 like was that happened in EastEnders? Didn't it with Kat Slater?

Rich 10:11 Yeah, that's quite a common soap storyline that that's not actually your sister. That's your mom. Dun dun dun dun suspiciously older

Tom Gerken 10:19 sister or mom. Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, wow. But I mean, that's that's like that must have been really interesting. And really, really, really kind of weird kind of growing up with a brother who's old enough to be your dad and the dad is old enough to be a granddad?

Speaker 3 10:34 Yeah, well, I think for me, I've always I've always been, it changed the way I was with my friend's parents at school. So they were obviously similar age to my brothers. So I've always I would always meet my friend's parents and be like, Oh, hey, like, just they I was chatting to them kind of like equals. Yes. When someone would meet, you know, when you meet someone, and you're like, Oh, thank you, Mrs. Like, whatever. Thank you. Thank you. But I always well, hey, Jan, how you doing? And I kind of never seen a just like a barrier gym. I mean, yeah. Yeah. My ex boyfriend was like, 29 years older than me as well. Wow. Yeah.

Rich 11:10 I don't want to draw a line directly between the two. But feels like there might be a link there. Well,

Unknown Speaker 11:17 I want to thank my dad wretches. That way. You're trying to

Rich 11:19 say it, but I'm raising my eyebrows. Well, I

Speaker 3 11:23 think he was still 25 years younger than my dad. So

Tom Gerken 11:28 sure, it's mom, if you want to fuck your brother. How? How old? Were you at the time? What's What's the if we could just ages on this? Just because

Unknown Speaker 11:36 I was 24 years? 53? We were together for six years. Wow.

Tom Gerken 11:41 I mean, breaking the rules, isn't it? It's meant to be half your age plus seven. There's no way that's going to work?

Speaker 3 11:47 Well, I mean, and yeah, we're not together anymore because of the age gap. Because I think I'd quite like a family. And he sort of had already done that. But yes, we it was a very loving and beautiful relationship. Think back very fondly.

Tom Gerken 12:01 I don't want to draw you back to what you said earlier, but you did sort of joke off the cuff earlier that it'd be nice if all your exes would come to your funeral. Well, you know, and I just, I feel like someone's gonna have to break it to you. But that's not probably not going to happen on this occasion.

Rich 12:14 If you really get a move on, maybe you can speed it up quite soon.

Speaker 3 12:20 Okay, that's all right. I mean, otherwise, it's just like, well, maybe I'll you know, have a very glamorous death.

Rich 12:26 Yeah. How would you want to go? If you're gonna go

Unknown Speaker 12:29 halfway through the fringe?

Tom Gerken 12:31 Oh, absolutely. The news stories we massive and they and there'll be an award.

Rich 12:36 Yeah. Or just a three stars from Steve.

Unknown Speaker 12:41 Yeah, three and a half.

Rich 12:44 The extra half is for the death. Yeah.

Speaker 3 12:48 Yeah. Well, he the the the ex boyfriend he was with. He was a he's a civil celebrant, and an actor. So he's a he leads funerals. Were people. That was his job.

Tom Gerken 12:57 Your dad was an actor.

Speaker 3 12:59 Here we go. Yeah, in fact, the daddy issues. He just really wants to learn more about this. Let's investigate.

Tom Gerken 13:09 Sorry. I don't mean to cut you off.

Speaker 3 13:15 Well, I'm an actor too. So I guess we met during doing a place

Tom Gerken 13:19 in the circles. That's really nice. So So tell me more about your dad. Then you said he was an actor? Was he sort of a jobbing actor or struggling actor? Are you gonna say actually, my dad was James Dean.

Speaker 3 13:30 My dad is Ian McKellen. So you went to Roger in the 1960s. And so yeah, he kind of eerie has been active for many years and then sort of gave that up to become a director. So he then he ran theatres for a bit, but then he gave all of that up when I was born in 1990. So when when when I was born, we were the family moved to Somerset and I just grew up in the middle of nowhere next more. Oh, wow. So

Rich 13:55 what did he do when you were growing up? Which was he was a farmer. Wow. That's a bold career change in your 50s. Yeah. To to farmer. Yeah. And

Speaker 3 14:07 the animals is as actor's director. Yeah, directing sheep around a field like downstage left works. Yeah, so he was a really bad farmer.

Tom Gerken 14:24 That's a really fun thing. And my dad was not an not a not like a paid actor. But he was he was really into amateur dramatics the whole way through, massively obsessed with the stage and you know, my childhood is, is constantly peppered with me being in the art centres, where we grew up watching watching them do stuff. And it's quite interesting because Samia had quite clearly opposite effect to you, where it sort of made me sort of go no, I mean, I don't think I want to do very much. Really? Well. It's obviously yeah, you must have you know, grown up around it and thought, oh, that sounds great.

Speaker 3 14:58 Yeah, I think I just never Have I never really enjoyed anything else really? I just always wanted to perform and stuff I wasn't really I don't really claim to be very good at as well at anything else. Maybe parallel parking. I'm quite good at that.

Tom Gerken 15:10 Good job. I don't know parking Of course. Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:14 That's interesting. So what what roles do remember your dad playing that you liked or hated?

Tom Gerken 15:20 Yeah, I mean, Max, Max Bialystock. Their producers humongous performance. Really, really off the chain so much libretto? That was one of the main things was like it's a lot to learn this thing. It doesn't sound very easy. It sounds very good. It's Wow, it was it was absolutely brilliant. And my understanding is there is a recording of it, but it's a bit intense to to watch it, but I believe it is. I do believe he was very, very good

Rich 15:47 at that. Suddenly, I don't think there's any tape of him performing. He did briefly. I think like your that time he he wasn't like a lifelong amateur dramatics fan, but he he did take part in. I want to say The Pirates of Penzance? Oh, yes, Gilbert and Sullivan. Yeah, towards the end of his life, I think probably a couple of years before he died. And my main memory of it is that he was he was in the chorus. And it was quite a big cast on quite a small stage. And he at one point, they that he was in one of two rows dancing, and they would dance side to side, and he was right on the end. So for most of the time, they would dance to the side, he'd be off the stage, dancing in the darkness, then he'd so dad's back on for a bit Oh, and then dance off again. And he just be. And that was his sort of, he was so nervous about the play. And he worked really hard at it. And then was just like, and most of the time, you'll just be sort of essentially in a dark room on your own. Doing a dance evil. And then briefly coming back to the spotlight. And then off again,

Unknown Speaker 16:55 I say that's actually quite seen Stickler

Rich 16:59 would be if anyone could have seen it. Yeah.

Tom Gerken 17:02 Oh, very well. That's a real so if you were to do if someone wants to do a biography, if you're dead. I feel like dancing in the darkness is a huge title. I mean, that's absolutely fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. My dad. Yeah. Bomber Gilbert and Sullivan society. That was his he was always doing the, you know, the sort of the the one who talks very quickly. That one. Wow. That one? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 17:30 That's the link that's just

Tom Gerken 17:32 loved Gilbert and Sullivan dying. Famously, and what a way to segue rich, speaking of how our dads love day. But about your dad, you know, you know what, what happened?

Speaker 3 17:48 It was June 2021. So wow, just over two years ago, but he was very ill for a long time. So during the pandemic, kind of so deteriorating, it wasn't COVID. But I would say that that sort of contributed to his deterioration because he had like a yet an illness called COPD, which is where you're kind of you don't have a lot of breath. You can't so he had breathing apparatus and he was not very mobile anymore. And then we couldn't really get carers in because of the pandemic. So he kind of just was quite stationary all the time. And so his his health deteriorated a lot. And then my mum couldn't really like my mum was really struggling to care for him full time, but we just couldn't get the help. And then you had a heart attack in the night because what happened and I got a phone call at about 830 in the morning from my brother who's a doctor so obviously really good at delivering bad news

Rich 18:44 and say Yes, yesterday all

Speaker 3 18:46 the bad news Yeah, literally trained. And then I drove down and then obviously being unable to you know, not make jokes. I just walked in and was like, Hey, guys, what's new after just crying in the car for four hours by Somerset? Like yeah, guys, hey, what's new? And then my mom's just looking at me like traumatised my brother's looking. They're like, looking like a doctor. I just couldn't stop making jokes. Just like jokes. Yeah. to camp. Yeah. Even at the funeral I was like cracking out like, got so drunk. Yeah,

Rich 19:25 it's weird, isn't it? Because I think I was I was the same at the time you kind of think everyone sort of thinking of how well I'm coping with this whereas you're they're making loads of jokes. Everyone's going he is not careful with this at all.

Speaker 3 19:35 Yeah, no, no, no, like making jokes like puns but like SoundCloud

Tom Gerken 19:46 what, but so, how old was he then?

Unknown Speaker 19:50 81.

Tom Gerken 19:51 That's the oldest dad we've had on the podcast. Surely. I mean, that's an incredible they're

Speaker 3 19:56 still relatively young. I think he was so desperate to live because he's the problem. His mind was super sharp. So like, he was very, like quick in his head, but just his body was really letting down. He is smoked for a very long time, like 40 years. And he got cancer when he got throat cancer when I was 16. And then he went sort of being quite this, this active dad that, you know, we'd play tennis all the time and stuff like that to kind of being a much slower. And so over the period of time, that long period of time, he was very slowly deteriorating.

Rich 20:28 Alright, so from from when you were 16, he was sort of it was a steady decline. It wasn't,

Speaker 3 20:34 yeah, 100% Yeah, I always knew my dad was going to die for a really long time. And that was always really hard. Because there was no, it wasn't like a doctor going, this is terminal, we've got six, you know, 16 months, six months, or whatever. It was, like, I was just kind of watching my dad sort of get slowly less, you know, physically able for, from 16 to 31, essentially. And so when he passed away, it was almost like, this sadness, but there's also relief, they didn't have to see my dad the way he was at the end anymore. And also kind of this thing I've been fearing for that this amount of time was no longer something I had to face.

Rich 21:10 Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's almost like a relief when the thing you've been terrified of for so long, finally happens. And you're like, Yeah, right. Now I can actually deal with it to just be worried about it all the time. Yeah. So how was it that the morning that you got the phone call? Was it still a shock? Or

Speaker 3 21:27 it was a shock? Like we weren't expecting it? Because the thing is, it was it been going on for so long? We just thought God, it could be years. It could be weeks, it could be days, it just like always waiting for this phone call. And so when it did happen, it wasn't it was a shock. But it wasn't unexpected, if that makes sense. But yeah, and we all sort of came together. And the funeral was a few weeks later, and we had a woodland burial. Which again, if you guys have heard much about woodland burials, it's kind of like a little bit. Yeah. So there's this woodland burial site near my family's home. It's really beautiful. It's like up on the hills and xsmall. And so you plant a tree. And it's all like, environmentally friendly. So we just buried my dad in this wicker wicker casket. And then people sort of came just to share their, you know, stories about my dad. So I spoke. And then people just kind of talked if they want to, which was really nice around the grave. But yeah, it wasn't cremated or anything like that. And then my mom bought the pitch next to him for a disk. They were like, Oh, do you want to? Do you want to buy for one? Yeah, literally. So I didn't know he's gonna go in there next, but someone is

Tom Gerken 22:40 time. Wheeler and dealer involved in that. Like, Now's the chance.

Unknown Speaker 22:47 50% off if you get into now.

Tom Gerken 22:51 I read that.

Rich 22:52 She saved that for herself. Or,

Speaker 3 22:55 I mean, I love my mom. But like, I hope it's not someone else. Because we're you know, she's much older than all of us. But now. I mean, who knows? You know, it's

Rich 23:04 good to have a grave in the back pocket. Isn't it? Just in case? Exactly. ever know when you might move on?

Speaker 3 23:08 Exactly. Maybe it'd be for the cat's grave. Yeah, I think yeah, it's very beautiful. I think that's what how I would like to go as well and a woodland burial.

Tom Gerken 23:21 That sounds lovely. Yeah. So secret planting a tree? Yes.

Speaker 3 23:25 Those Yeah, it's like a kind of go there. And there's, it's like an orchard. And you know, you can't have anything that's not environmentally friendly. So it's like, everything's kind of made of wood. And it's right on the x more hills. And it's just very, yeah, really beautiful. And I remember when we went to go and pick a spot to bury him. My brother went, and we found two four leaf clovers next to each other. Yeah. And then we gave one to each other. And then that was where we buried my dad. Oh,

Rich 23:56 that's beautiful.

Tom Gerken 23:56 But nice, isn't it?

Unknown Speaker 23:58 Yeah, I still. Yeah.

Rich 24:01 That's a lovely story. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 24:04 It's a country there. Yeah, of course.

Rich 24:06 It's also ironic to get a good look over and when you're finding a place to bury it really fit to sit.

So so it's been just over two years since your dad died. How? How's it been?

Tom Gerken 24:28 Yeah. laugh a minute.

Speaker 3 24:31 It's been up and down. I think I think the hardest thing for me was obviously, my son, my brother has a family and children and a wife and I was coming home to an empty flat. I think for me not having my own family unit was really tough, because you kind of think, oh my god, you know, I'm 30 in my early 30s. And I haven't all of these sort of milestones have been achieved and my dad's dad, it just felt very unfair and scary because you're like, well, if my mom goes Then I'll have no one. But that's not true. Anyway, I've got an amazing set of friends and family, I've got to a godson, and niece and nephew. But those were the dark, those sometimes continue to be the darkest moments. But then also, there's been really good things as well, because I started doing stand up soon after he passed away. And that's been life changing really

Rich 25:20 nice. And was was that in any way? Sort of a direct response? Do you think?

Speaker 3 25:26 I think I was sort of weirdly waiting for him to pass away. Because when you're waiting for something like that to happen, your life feels like it's on hold. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've got a friend of mine who was caring for his sick parents for a years. And then when they passed away, he wasn't able to do all of these amazing things. And I think it is like that when you've got a parent that's able. It. It is like the life's on hold. You can't really move forward.

Rich 25:55 Well, yeah, because you're always pulled back to something there's sort of his hard to make a big change in your life when you've got this constant, sort of worry and knowledge that something big is gonna happen. Something big and quite devastating is going to happen maybe soon. Maybe a year, maybe two years.

Speaker 3 26:11 Exactly. It's really hard. It's just like a weight on you. And when when he passed away it was it's so sad because I miss him so much. But it's also like yeah, like this huge relief because this thing is gone. The scary thing, and I survived it, and I did it on my own. I didn't have anyone. Just yeah, my cat who you know, is great, but you don't get any available really can't have great chats with. I try God damn.

Tom Gerken 26:41 Good chats at a cat certainly. Yeah, how to how to help the cat. How long's cat

Speaker 3 26:47 baseball I got on the first day of lockdown. Atticus Finch, he's called our article. Nice. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's great. Yeah, he getting a cat was life changing. Obviously, it's cat lady stereotype. I realise. But it's a stereotype for a reason. Because it's really, really nice. Yeah, it's there's weird things that the thing, the things that you're not expecting that remind you of them? Definitely. Right. Yeah, anything like that? Yeah, I had that. You know, I was like, when was the last time we spent time together? What did I say to him. And I felt guilty because I'd go home, and I'd see my mom, because I wanted to give my mom a bit of respite from having to care for him. Sometimes, and, and, you know, sometimes my dad can be a bit annoying. So I didn't want to sit with him. I wanted to mum. And then felt guilt. And also you have this feeling where you're like, and you're ill, and it makes me sad. So I don't want to sit with you. Yeah, like, and that's such a selfish thing. And then so you go and sit with mum and watch telly with mom or your dad sitting alone in another room kind of sort of played a lot of online bridge. And they just didn't, he occasionally would like Katie come in here and talk to me. And I'd be I'd go in and I'd sit with him. But then he sort of say something really annoying or slightly offensive. Only even know, you know, he's ill. So I felt Yeah, a lot of guilt around that I should have should have sat with him for hours.

Rich 28:07 But it's a very human thing, isn't it? That's because it's very easy. When someone dies, or when someone's ill, that you you then use, you've stopped thinking of them as a human as a person who's got flaws and good things and bad things. And we kind of expect that they should be treated like heroes constantly. And you see when when people die, you're not allowed to speak ill of the dead. But the truth is that, you know, because you're ill because you're dying. It doesn't mean that sometimes you're not a bit annoying.

Speaker 3 28:34 Yeah. Well, he, I think he was he's scared. And also he could be a little bit entitled, I think sometimes just as a person, like, a lot of boarding school behaviour. And so yeah, it'd be it could be a bit of a bit of a knob. And so yeah, you're just kind of like, well, you're, you're a dick, like something you dig. But I was dying dig.

Rich 29:01 But people don't stop being addicted because they're dying to get worse a lot of the time.

Speaker 3 29:05 Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think carers are amazing people that are carers, right? Yeah, they need to be paid so much more.

Rich 29:13 Yeah, absolutely. But I think it's important to remember that when people die from what to remember the bad stuff, as well as the good stuff, otherwise you don't remember them properly. And quite often, I'll talk to my brothers and my mom about stuff that my dad did that was quite annoying, or just weird. He just did quite a lot of weird stuff. I think we've discussed it on this podcast before maybe but I remember we went on a ferry once to France when I was quite young, and we stayed. Me and my dad stayed in like the bunk bed room. So I was on the bottom bunk he was on the top bunk and he drank four pints of lime cordial that night. Which is such a phenomenal amount of lime cordial to drink in one single night has always stuck with me because as far as I remember, he never, I'd never again saw him drink lime cordial. But I just remember being on the bottom bunk and him coming down and getting and just like downing a pint of lime cordial, and going back to sleep again. And it's such a weird memory, but I do in many ways. I think it sums up quite a lot of the strangeness of who he was as a person. You can't remember. Not that he's also a man who could drink for far too long, quarterly and one night for essentially no reason. Entirely context for Elon cordial. How are you? I'm cordial. Now. I don't drink often. But I do like I like a lime cordial. I get very annoyed in pubs when they let you pay for it. Which is, it's maybe a hangover from a dad. I think what I think the truth might be is that I think he might have got quite drunk that night and was drinking a lot to sober up during the night. But as a sort of 10 year old boy, I was just like, waking me up. Yeah, stop, stop drinking lime cordial loudly in front of Milan comedy. Probably one of them would be for me, but

Tom Gerken 31:20 I get from the sort of brief knowledge I have your dad. You know, he was just so loud. His existence was quite loud when like, walk past the kitchen or and he was sort of in there sort of going. was making all these fixes. By managers

Speaker 3 31:36 loud by the way, you guys. You can't sneeze quietly. You can't cough loudly. You can't cough quietly. You can't poo quietly. But you've come silently, your problem or what have you

Tom Gerken 31:50 sort of this this sort of lovely woodland burial was was that actually the funeral itself as well? Oh, yes. That was the same thing.

Speaker 3 31:58 Yeah, everyone we had we hired like a civil celebrant, a woman and she sort of led it. But yeah, we all met so everyone gathered in the woodland. Everyone that was invited up, wanted to come. There were a lot of people there is really,

Tom Gerken 32:14 this is what I was getting into is being rich have sort of had a bit of an argument in the past over the numbers. I claim that you 100 People went to my dad's funeral, rich claims with rich lies and sort of invents a number in the 1000s. And I was just wondering how many people went to your dad's funeral?

Speaker 3 32:36 Not that many. But I mean, you're 81 I think it was like 60 5060.

Tom Gerken 32:42 If that's a real number, you see rich, you could learn something from it. Because that's actual facts that many people went yeah,

Speaker 3 32:48 I think that's pretty good for an 81 year old man. Yeah, huge. Yeah.

Rich 32:52 I wouldn't I do wonder if funerals become like, we're all at the age now. Where weddings are a bit like, Oh, God, I've got another wedding this weekend. I wonder when you get to the right if

Tom Gerken 33:01 you came to my wedding a few months ago. That's an outreach.

Speaker 3 33:04 I think we need to we need to be able to call people out for getting married. I've been a bridesmaid five times and it's still putting up I mean, times yeah. I never get a plus

Tom Gerken 33:13 one. Really? No brackets me you don't get plus

Unknown Speaker 33:17 one. So she's, she'll be single. No, she won't have anyone.

Rich 33:22 You will meet people.

Unknown Speaker 33:25 But then they might be kayaking. And then they then they Yeah, like capsize

Rich 33:31 to the wedding will be fine.

Speaker 3 33:34 Now Yeah, lots of weddings. Yeah. I wonder if they sing a lot.

Rich 33:38 Speech? Of course. Yeah. So you have to be involved in the wedding. Yeah. And then they still don't give you a plus one. That is out of order. But do you think funerals become that way? When you're in your 80s? That sort of when the first one dies? You're like, oh, yeah, but all go it's a really big special occasion. And then later on when you with your group of friends when he done for last three, you want them dies. You have to go to another another funeral. This is

Speaker 3 34:03 you've got an excuse when you're older. I can't get there. I'm sorry.

Rich 34:07 Make a point. And if you say in that voice that really helps.

Unknown Speaker 34:11 We had a lot of that, you know, I'm

Rich 34:13 sorry, I can't come to your father tonight. So old, so old. just ring up and say, I'm so old and you go okay, don't worry that's

Tom Gerken 34:26 too old. I thought it would be the other way around. I thought you know, you get older and you don't get invited to as many social events anymore. And so, you know, someone dies and it's like a fantastic young, it's up on my dress and, you know, head out into the head out into the great wide world for a day for a lovely day out of a sandwich, that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 34:49 Actually, did you guys have to tell did you have to ring up and tell people your dad was dead? I had to do that.

Rich 34:54 No, I didn't. But how was that experience?

Speaker 3 34:56 Oh my god. I didn't expect that to do it. So I thought my brother would have Stokes, you know, he's a GPS, it was like, my father passed away 200 $1,800 speaks really normally actually. Yeah, my mom was like, Okay, you need to bring these people. Right. Yeah, it's a ring up and tell them good morning. My dad. Yeah.

Rich 35:18 Which which people were these, like friends of his

Speaker 3 35:21 family friends of ours. And I think the worst one was, so my dad had a, he had a cousin who they spoke every day. And he was also in his 80s. And they were very, very close, and grew up together. So when my dad was, his parents sort of, sort of abandoned him a little bit to go in, you know, they were kind of like quite well off. And they just went live in Hong Kong during the war, and just didn't didn't really see my dad. So he was brought up with my, his cousin's family. And so they were just very close. And he, he, he's, he's very old. So hadn't listened to the answer phone message, someone had left him. So he rang up, when we were all at home and said, You'd always do this thing where he would pretend to be a character. Like, I tend to be an MP or something. My dad so he'd bring me like an extra local MP and like, drew this character. And yeah, and, and like, see him and my dad. Yeah, we just joke about this all the time. And they'd go on this bridge holidays together and stuff. And they obviously very close. And so he rang up and did a character the morning after my dad had died. I'd say I'm really sorry, Robin. Dad died last night.

Rich 36:36 And he's saying,

Speaker 3 36:38 Well, this is the thing. It's like they're so repressed these old men that he went, Oh, dear. I'm, I'm sorry. Thank you, and then just sort of hung up. Oh, but it was like almost as if I said Dad's gone to the data. We back about an hour. Yeah. That's the post office. So it does. Yeah, it was it was actually that was all heartbroken. Yeah, really heartbreaking. And yeah, we have met up a few times. I've made the effort to meet up so you do all these things. Yeah, we invited him. I picked him Christmas dinner. Oh, lovely. Yeah, cousin Robin. I cooked him Christmas dinner. But it was too fucking annoying. So when I see him again. It's really nice to listen to this. Man married, we're engaged.

Speaker 3 37:33 But yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Am I you know, do you ever? Did you guys become obsessed with things that your dad was obsessed with? Because my dad was obsessed with Ancestry DNA and sort of like tracking down our family trees and stuff. And I found it's so boring when he would talk at me about it. I just feed off Shut up. And since he's passed away, I've become obsessed. And I've got an Ancestry DNA kit waiting for me after this podcast. Yeah, even though just be like 100% British pork or whatever. But it's Yeah, become obsessive watching. Who do you think you are? I I've built my family tree online. And I've gone back and found all these ancestors. And yeah, it's just been really interesting. But when he was telling me about it, I was just like, Oh, shut up.

Rich 38:17 Yeah, it just things take on a new meaning that they I've I hated Pink Floyd, my dad loves Pink Floyd. And I was always there. So boring. Now I love Pink Floyd is an every time I listen to them. I think my dad likes Pink Floyd?

Tom Gerken 38:29 Yes, I think there's a really big thing in when somebody dies, there's something they were putting into the world. And now that they've died, they can't anymore. And so there's, there's almost a duty when you have to continue putting into the world what they were doing. My dad was a vegetarian. And after he died, I just went full cope ate loads of meat. And then when I just I'm just going to stop eating meat because at least that's something it's almost a conscious decision. And I've ended up sort of broadly broadly vegan at this point.

Speaker 3 39:01 Sounds like that was vegetarian. I've not done that shit. And that person's

Rich 39:05 taken on the ancestry thing. That's the Yeah, that's what

Unknown Speaker 39:10 that's not helping anyone? Is it? helping animals?

Tom Gerken 39:13 Helping ancestor you're giving them some money, you know, you've bought one of their kits. That's

Speaker 3 39:17 yeah. That's spent 90 quid would have

Tom Gerken 39:23 happened, right? They think they owed they, you know, they've earned that 90 pounds or they or or from your dad effectively, you were just carrying through. True. Thank you. He wants you to know, his ancestry. And ultimately, you are going to find out that information by finding out your own. Yeah, yeah. Right. So I find that my brother

Rich 39:42 is my dad. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah. And then we'll be back on the podcast. Oh my god,

Tom Gerken 39:47 I tell you what, it would be good at the rich I'm struggling with the Pink Floyd one unless if they put out an album since because maybe, you know you've you've given them some sailors.

Rich 39:59 One No, I don't think I've helped. I've carried on his legacy in that way. I have since he died. I've been practising as a GP, which I think illegally, but of course, back alley. He was he was doing a lot of good for the people of charity core, but and since then I've just been bringing them in the night and been like anything wrong with you kind of help? I don't think I've helped. I think I'm actually I would, yeah,

Tom Gerken 40:24 well, your dad gave people medicine. Yeah. And they say laughter is the best medicine. I see. It became a standard.

Rich 40:35 It makes a lot of sense.

Tom Gerken 40:41 I'm just wondering if the funeral if you'd had seen or did provide you very much closure, or didn't really do very much?

Speaker 3 40:47 I think it did. I think it provided closure. It was very beautiful day. And it was, yeah, I got to talk about him I spoke. And then I heard what other people have to say, obviously, I've got two pairs so far rotten the next day. But yeah, it definitely provided closure on some, you know, because it'd been a long way coming.

Tom Gerken 41:05 That's really cool. I feel like a lot of people don't have that experience where it kind of feels just like a thing you have to do. Maybe I'm just talking to myself, it just felt more like you have a funeral because somebody has died. That's the thing you do. Great. And now and now we just carry on? I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I actually necessarily felt much closure from it. So it's kind of it's really cool that you did. And that's really awesome.

Speaker 3 41:29 Yeah, I think it's something to do with the fact that the whole journey of his death was so long and sort of quite distressing for us as a family. Finally laying him to rest in such a beautiful setting not too far away from our home, because we all we have this really, it was a very quick, quite ritualistic in the sense that we all sort of wore like, kind of just like, I guess nice sort of summery clothes. And then we walked from our house through the woodland to the burial site. Gabbard sounds kind of iffy isn't weird. That's amazing. We we picked flowers along the way. And then we walked and so we had all these flowers. And then we My dad knew we had some friends that played he loved playing live music. So he was really bad. He loved live music. So we have friends that play that we had a string quartet. Who did it wasn't didn't sound perfect. But it was just very like they were playing as we were coming in. And then we Yeah, that we will just put the flowers in the grave. And then everyone spoke and it was very kind of loose. Yeah, there's,

Tom Gerken 42:41 it's we're in this beautiful woodland. Yeah, there's a string quartet. You're walking in hold?

Speaker 3 42:49 Yeah. And then I'm married by that. My brothers, my Dad, what's going on this? Yeah, it was. Yeah. But then I think it's because yeah, funerals are seen as this kind of there was this, there's this darkness to them. And it was it was really sad. But it was also really beautiful. And it wasn't like a celebration of his life in that sense. So yeah, it was, I guess, yeah, there were wedding vibes, but are married, obviously. And there was no talk of love and weddings. But it was it was about death and putting in a nature and because he wasn't religious at all. So there was no kind of like, that aspect of it wasn't involved. And I think it's Quaker funerals where people just sort of are invited to walk forward and say something if they want to. And that's what we did. Even though Yeah, we're not Quakers, but we just kind of did what we wanted. And also, when you go and do when you go to a crematorium funeral, there's, you have to be a certain amount of time, you have to stick to the certain amount of time, it's quite regimented, because I have other funerals coming in. So you're kind of like you will have to leave. And so people are forced out a bit forced out of the building, so they can get the next one in the oven. Whereas we didn't have that here. Everyone kind of like hung around. And that was what was nice about it. So maybe that's why it felt a bit more.

Tom Gerken 44:03 I'd quite like that for my funeral. Oh, that sounds

Rich 44:07 good. Step forward and speak

Speaker 3 44:09 about five or six, I think. And they all had the funny stories. And yeah, it was really nice. Like very special.

Rich 44:17 Nice. I feel like you do run a slight risk. If you've got like anyone can step forward and speak that there'll be a point midway through and the 15th person comes up and like you assume KNOW Him Who are you? What are you?

Unknown Speaker 44:29 Yeah, he was a dick

Rich 44:33 to people trying to get stuff off their chest.

Tom Gerken 44:37 Bring forward the rings. So steps forward. It's like he actually owed me 500 pounds. So if anyone would do you need to get rid of his debts before he before he passed away? It sounds so nice, though. I mean, it just sounds like well as you stay in it, and it brought you closer, so maybe we've actually been doing it wrong and the credit and funeral is, is. It's just you know, as you said very regimented, doesn't bring much closure. The party afterwards is I guess quite good. But then presumably you will you all headed back. And we had a massive rager. Well, we

Speaker 3 45:13 had Yeah, food at the house. And then everyone sort of left and I was the one still pissed.

Rich 45:18 You had a massive rager.

Speaker 3 45:19 Yeah, no one else did. Because I knew I was speaking, I was right to write a eulogy. And so I was writing it for about two weeks. And it you know, kind of like when you've got, like something coming up, and then afterwards, you kind of let it all go. I think that was so drunk was so nervous about it. And I knew I had to do it, cuz I knew my brothers wouldn't do it. Yeah. And it's,

Tom Gerken 45:40 I mean, it's good to get it right. Well, yeah, I

Rich 45:43 mean, it makes a lot of sense. And I think it is a very good excuse for getting very pissed.

Tom Gerken 45:47 And it was my wedding day, guys. Like, come on, give me a special day.

Rich 46:00 You mentioned earlier that you're, your mom used to say that you're you were like your dad when you were a teenager. Do you? Do you feel that you similar to him now? Yeah. In a horrible way.

Speaker 3 46:15 Well, I mean, I've started doing this thing that my dad used to do when I used to walk into different rooms used to sort of shuffle and sort of go make sort of noises like when he and then like, oh, and I

Rich 46:31 definitely do that now. What like sort of old button noises. Yeah, like, like, like, I don't

Speaker 3 46:36 know. We'll see. When we finish this podcast. I'll get up and go.

Unknown Speaker 46:44 Or, like, you know, when you're like really tired, you're like,

Rich 46:49 yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like you said, Men can't do anything quietly. So that all has to involve quite a lot of noise. Yeah. So what are the ways you similar to do you think I

Speaker 3 47:00 guess I'm the only one that's pursued a career in performing arts. That's the obvious one. Yeah. Other things is like a little very cry very easily. I think he was quite sensitive. Get quite emotional. And these are basically the recorder.

Rich 47:18 Lovely. Not a lot of people still play the recorder in the 30s.

Speaker 3 47:22 Yeah, no. Problem. Lizzo. So Oh, yeah, she's

Rich 47:25 made it cool again. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 47:28 Before lizard copied me actually.

Rich 47:31 On record evidence of that article from my dad,

Tom Gerken 47:33 you just drop in free three blind mice, the sort of podcast bands, the classics. Titanic, are you sort of doing doing the sort of the modern hits?

Rich 47:44 Exam style and stuff?

Unknown Speaker 47:45 Toxic? By Britney?

Rich 47:48 Nice.

Tom Gerken 47:50 What do you know? As a joke, or legitimately you can play toxic on the record?

Rich 47:56 Yes. I mean, do you have a recorder to hand it

Unknown Speaker 47:59 to come sit? You have to get in there. Well, you have to come and see my show. Ah

Speaker 1 48:10 well, yes, if you're wondering how you can see Katie Show and Hear her knocking out toxic on a recorder which is Jeremy Come on. Who doesn't want to see that? Has show Katie nice farm Fe tau a work in progress. You can see at the Bill Murray bouts of Angel comedy club that is in Angel, North London. That's going to be on on Thursday the 14th of September. From 9:45pm doors open a quarter past nine if you based in London or nearby do come along I think ticket to a fiver which seems extraordinarily reasonable to me to see somebody else paying twice that three times that for shows that the friend is just gone. So so come qk you know, that seems very good. Anyway, do please go if you enjoyed that episode, and you enjoyed Katie, why not support her? And comedy? You'll have a good time. And if you're listening to this after the 14th of September and you're thinking but Tom, that's the past. No worries. I've got you bro. Her Instagram is Katy Norris 26.

Tom Gerken 49:16 Just pop it into Google. And you know, it'll figure out your spelling mistake. This is how you would think it would be spelled dated August 26 on Instagram, and I'm sure she will have where she's performing the show up there soon. So you can watch it or you can hang on till the fringe or I'm sure it will be that simple. Why not watch it? Watch it work in progress and then watch the final show at the fringe event. It'd be great. You can compare the two might still be a work in progress at the fringe. I don't know. I'm not a mind reader, or indeed a futurologists. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. I really I really, really enjoyed that one. It was so much fun. I have to say. Rich isn't here to defend himself or his dad. So it It would be a bit harsh for me to extend to spend an extended period of time really digging into his dad's line cordial fixation. However, what I will say, three pints of line cordial. What on earth has happened? Since that story was told. And he's mentioned it before to me in private, I have begun consuming lime cordial, really at a great pace.

Speaker 1 50:28 And to be honest with you, I think I'm on Rich's dad's side. I think I've come around to it. You go to bed you bring two two pints of lime cordial. You drink you drink them both during the night, you have 10 ways. Alright, you don't sleep very well, but my goodness you ever hydrated.

Tom Gerken 50:45 Rich. We'll be back with us next week for the intro and the outro of our episodes. So look forward to that and look forward to our chat. I really enjoyed his Edinburgh show. And if you enjoyed it, too, he's always gigging around in London, he's he's constantly performing. look him up on Instagram. If you just follow our dad's died on Instagram, you'll be able to get to Rich's page from there, and you'll be able to see his show it he's a funny guy, it's well worth it. And I'd really recommend it. As for me, don't do stand up comedy, you won't be able to see me perform anywhere. But you can see what I write on the BBC News website, of course you can. So you know, check it out. I'd love to get my numbers up slightly. But primarily, the thing I would like you to do, is the thing that I always ask you to do, which is if you've not yet left us a review, please do pop on iTunes or Spotify hit the five star button iTunes, ideally, hit that five star button and leaves a few a few kind words. Receiving kind words from people provides an extraordinarily high level of motivation to me, even if you just hop on our Instagram, like posts and leave a comment on an on on Instagram. That alone really, really lifts me up sometimes. And I don't know if you've if you know this, but talking about your dad constantly can be quite an emotional thing to do. So. The Pickney apps are quite lovely. So please do that. And please just you know, keep telling a friend about the podcast the growth we've seen is extraordinary. And if we can keep growing, then who knows what could happen the future. So thank you so much for listening this week. And we will of course be with you again. Next week on our dad's died. Remember, Death comes for a soul but it comes to you first. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai