JO DYSON: Hello and welcome to the National Trust Podcast. I'm Jo

Dyson, and today I'm visiting a weird and wonderful place. Once

the home of giant creatures, a tourist trap for Victorians and

now a top spot for all kinds of adventures. I'll be exploring

this National Trust landscape with the added benefit of a

treasure hunt along the way.

JO DYSON: So just arrived at Brimham Rocks car park and I

can't wait to find out what's in store for me today. It's been

about a 20 minute drive here from Harrogate and I've passed

beautiful farmland, quaint fields, bright green landscape.

The drizzle that started this morning in Harrogate seems to be

clearing. So I'm here today to meet a National Trust colleague

called Rich Foster, and I think that could be him over there...

Hi are you Rich?

RICH FOSTER: I am. Are you Jo?

JO DYSON: Hi I am, great to meet you. Nice to meet you. So, Rich,

I've been told that you are an expert, but I've not been told

what you are an expert in...

RICH FOSTER: Aha. I am an expert. And I'm an expert in

something called Geocaching.

JO DYSON: Geocaching?

RICH FOSTER: Yes.

JO DYSON: Brilliant!

So I have heard of this. Is it sort of like a treasure hunt?

RICH FOSTER: It is. It is. It's a techy treasure hunt that's

played around the world and you use GPS enabled device like your

phone. And G. P. S. is like the sat nav in your car. Okay,

That's the ‘geo’ bit Yeah, exactly. And the caching bit a

cache is a store like something that's been hidden.

So Geocaches or we shorten the word and say caches are some

sort of container that you have to go and find. They’re hidden

all around the world. There’s boxes of all sizes and shapes in

towns, cities and in fabulous places like this.

JO DYSON: So when I was in Harrogate last night, I could

have gone geo caching and then might have been containers to

find.

RICH FOSTER: You probably walked past some and didn't even know.

JO DYSON: So what are we actually going to find here?

RICH FOSTER: Well, I'm not going to tell you. That's all part of

the mystery. But why don't we get going, start searching, and

I'll fill you in on everything you need to become an expert

Geocacher in 60 seconds!

JO DYSON: Hah in 60 seconds? Brilliant. If only I could

become an expert in many things in 60 seconds.

RICH FOSTER: So here's ten things to remember before you go

out Geocaching. Bring your phone or a GPS device to be able to

find these caches.

Bring some snacks and water and a pen or a pencil. I'll explain

why you need that in a minute. Some sun tan lotion or sunscreen

if it's sunny or maybe a jacket, if it's wet. Bug spray and

antihistamines can be a good idea because you in the great

outdoors, a torch can be useful as well. Sometimes geocaches are

hidden in dark places and you need to shine a light to find

it.

A few first aid essentials can be useful. Hopefully you'll

never need them. And two final things tools of the trade, some

caches can be really hard to spot or might even need a set of

tweezers to pry open to appear in your bag just in case I'm

finally swag for trading. SWAG stands for stuff we all get. If

you find a cache with something in, you can trade it with a

small item. Of your own.

JO DYSON: That's great, Rich, So we've got our top ten. We're

ready to go. I've downloaded the Geocaching app, which I am

delighted to see is free. So anyone can do this. And now just

looking at my phone, we must be this blue dot. Yes. And then

there's quite a few sort of green dots surrounding us. What

does this all mean?

RICH FOSTER: You've got the map of the area there, all those

green dots you can see there, the Geocaches.

JO DYSON: Looks like there might even be one in the car park.

RICH FOSTER: There is. I'm quite interested in this one here,

though. It's called Can't see the Wood for the trees.

JO DYSON: So it's got a name?

RICH FOSTER: Oh, they've all got names, you know.

So, can you see on my phone here it's 186 meters away. The app

tells us how far away the cache is. Okay. And it gives us a

difficulty rating and a terrain rating.

Difficulty is when you've kind of got into the area of the

cache, how hard it is to find.

JO DYSON: Okay.

RICH FOSTER: And the terrain is how difficult is it to get to

where the cache is? If it's a terrain one, it's accessible for

all for wheelchair users and people with buggies and they go

right up to five

JO DYSON: And they're might we be using our climbing equipment?

RICH FOSTER: They need specialist gear.

So it's climbing equipment or you need a canoe sometimes...

JO DYSON: A canoe?

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

JO DYSON: Really? What, so you can reach it by water?

RICH FOSTER: Absolutely.

JO DYSON: Oh, I like the sound of those ones. Okay, So those

say 1.5 for difficulty and 1.5 for terrain. I mean, I don't

want to sort of jump ahead, but this one sounds pretty easy than

if it's 1.5.

RICH FOSTER: It should be.

JO DYSON: So should we go and find can’t see the wood for the

trees?

RICH FOSTER: So I've got 111 meters to the cache now.

JO DYSON: Yeah mine says 110. 109. It's quite fun that it's a

countdown, isn't it?

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

JO DYSON: We're getting warmer.

RICH FOSTER: Yes.

JO DYSON: Oh, wow. Look at those rocks through the trees.

So, Rich, how long have you been Geocaching for?

RICH FOSTER: I've been caching for about nine years.

I'm a cyclist as well, and I had a bit of a bike crash and broke

my collarbone, so I was looking for something to do with myself.

JO DYSON: Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt again, but now we're

only three meters away.

RICH FOSTER: But I'm going to have to pause my story because

we're right on top of the cache here...

JO DYSON: We are, are we? Yes!

So if I get back to the main screen, there's a description.

Can I click on that?

RICH FOSTER: Yes.

JO DYSON: And there's a button that says hint shall I do that?

RICH FOSTER: Yeah, yeah.

JO DYSON: Oh, here we go... okay. “Above the service road

layby in a crevice of a large rock adjoining a Birch Tree

hidden by branches and moss. ” So that's the service road

straight ahead.

RICH FOSTER: Yeah

JO DYSON: The crevice of a large rock...

RICH FOSTER: Well, pick your rock around here.

JO DYSON: I mean, that's not really whittling it down is it?

Where’s the Birch Tree?

RICH FOSTER: There's a number of birch trees as well isn't there?

JO DYSON: So do you think this could be the rock in that Birch

Tree? I think maybe down here a bit.

RICH FOSTER: So you're looking for something that's obviously

got some branches piled on top of it.

JO DYSON: So this one maybe? Here's a crevice down here.

RICH FOSTER: I've already walked past them looking for this...

ah!

JO DYSON: Have you found it?

RICH FOSTER: Well, I'm going to walk away and guide you and say

you're not very far away now...

JO DYSON: Am I close?

Because this tree is definitely close, isn't it?

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

JO DYSON: Do you think it's down here?

RICH FOSTER: Have a look for the gap in the rocks.

JO DYSON: Oh my gosh, I found it!

RICH FOSTER: There you go.

JO DYSON: Oh, my gosh. That is so exciting. And there's the box

oh wow shall I open it?

RICH FOSTER: Aha!

JO DYSON: Look, National Trust, Geocache.

This is my first geocache find. Oh, this is lovely.

Look Rich, there's a little pad of paper with people's names and

dates.

RICH FOSTER: The way it works is that when you find the cache,

you look for the log book. And there's your log book and sign

your name and your date to say that you found it.

JO DYSON: So I'll add our names.

Oh, this is so good. Oh, look what's in here. There's a little

booklet. A painted rock that is painted with yellow and red

stripes and. Oh, this is lovely. Look, it's like a little key

ring that says National Trust 50 things. That’s the 50 things to

do before your 11 & 3/4.

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

JO DYSON: And this. A little acorn?

RICH FOSTER: A little pinecone.

JO DYSON: That’s what I meant!

RICH FOSTER: Yeah, you meant pinecone.

So that's all your SWAG, the stuff we all get.

JO DYSON: Oh yes. So do you want to get something to leave in it?

Why, yes. While I add our names.

RICH FOSTER: So the deal with SWAG, all the things in the

cache. The idea is that you trade up or trade even. So, if

you want to take something from the cache, you can. But you must

leave something of equal or same value. And it's brilliant with

kids, with families, because kids are actually finding

something that looks like treasure.

So I've got a bag of swaggy bits here we can add.

We've got some I love geocaching stickers and I've got like a

Lego man in a box in a bag you can make.

JO DYSON: So now do we just put the Tupperware box back

together?

RICH FOSTER: That's right. Put it all back. Leave it exactly

where you found it for the next person. We need to log it on the

app now, to say that we found it.

JO DYSON: So now I think I'm ready for my next. This is

addictive.

RICH FOSTER: Good, isn't it?

Let's go find another one.

JO DYSON: I mean, I've genuinely never seen anything like this

Rich. It's just the contrast of the lush green grass and then

these absolutely vast boulders sort of jutting out. I did

notice actually on this geocaching app that there's that

button that says description.

RICH FOSTER: Yeah. So when you click this description, it tells

you something about the area that you're visiting.

ALEC BOYD: The story of Brimham Rocks, It's realistically a 320

million year story.

My name is Alec Boyd and I'm the area ranger here at Brimham

Rocks.

If you go back long enough, the UK used to be south of the

equator and there's a giant mountain range that doesn't

really exist anymore. I think it's roughly comparable to the

Himalayas.

It was probably one of the major mountain ranges in the world at

the time. And as this mountain range was exposed to weathering,

you know, you'd get rain, snow, sleet, everything we're getting

today,

You know, weather that mountain range down and through a series

of river systems, all that material would make its way down

the slope where the area flattens out.

And that's actually the source of what Brimham rocks is today,

is this ancient, giant, meandering river delta.

The waterways are what gave the rocks their distinctive layering

and appearance 320 million years ago when these rivers were going

through, flowering plants didn't exist. So trees as we know them,

grasses as we know them flowers didn't exist at that time. In

fact, when it comes to Vertebrate Life, so life with

backbones, the new kid on the block is literally Reptiles.

We've only got one fossil that we don't advertise too much

because of where it's located, and we don't want to cause

excess erosion to it.

But we've got the fossilized footprints of an ancient

Amphibian. So this is a type of Amphibian called a Temnospondyl,

which is roughly related to frogs, newts and salamanders

today, just think of it like second cousins.

The difference is these things can be absolutely enormous, some

roughly the size of a small car, the one that we've got

footprints on would probably be size of a small alligator.

Imagine a newt with big sharp teeth and a really flat head.

That's roughly what they look like.

It's a very different ecosystem now. We're in this beautiful

Heather Moorland with these rock formations, but these rock

formations allow for all sorts of current life to have little

niches. We've got all sorts of nesting birds that use the

rocks. Obviously insects and other invertebrates 320 million

years makes quite the difference.

JO DYSON: Rich, well that second cache was a bit easier to find

than the first. I wasn't sure if we were going to find the first.

RICH FOSTER: It was. It was a lot easier

JO DYSON: And a much smaller box.

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

JO DYSON: I mean, I am itching to go and find a third, but I

have to say it's sort of coffee time and I've just spied this

National Trust coffee shop. Shall we grab a coffee and a

cake?

RICH FOSTER: I'm up for a coffee.

JO DYSON: Rich, I mean, look at that view. I don't think there

could be a more beautiful, picturesque place to sit with

our coffee.

RICH FOSTER: It is lovely.

JO DYSON: Hey, Rich, look behind you. Can you see that stone

wall? And then there's a bit jutting out, and it looks like

there's a loose, loose rock. You don’t think that could be a

cache do you?

RICH FOSTER: Oh I'm not sure you you might be seeing caches

everywhere. I tell you what, have a look on the app just to

have a check.

JO DYSON: Okay. So I'm zooming in on the GPS Look, the blue dot

of us is right next to a green dot.

Shall we go and have a look?

RICH FOSTER: Oh, that's amazing.

JO DYSON: So this is the Brimham house cache.

Look, if I press on that description button on the app-

JEN TAYLOR: A lot of people say when they see the house, they

ask, who was the house built for who lived in it? But actually it

was built for visitors. It was built to be a visitor reception

point.

My name's Jen Taylor. I'm the property operations manager at

Brimham Rocks.

People have been coming to visit Brimham rocks since the first

owners of the estate built Brimham house really. It was a

tourist destination in the very early days of tourism and that

really boomed when the railways came. The Victorian tourists

really enjoyed the sights of Brimham and were fascinated by

the stories of the Druids.

The Victorians were fascinated with lots of different things.

They were obsessed with death and they were obsessed with all

sorts of mysticism, and Druids were part of that.

They used to think that the Druids had created the rocks.

They didn't think about the way we look at it now and the

geology of the site. They much prefer to think of it in a more

mystical way.

RICH FOSTER: And that's another one ticked off Jo.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Hello, guys.

I heard you were here today looking for our Geocaches? How

are you getting on? Oh Good. Oh, good, good. I'm Molly, one of

the Rangers here. Oh, fantastic. I look after the Geocaches.

JO DYSON: Well, you're doing a brilliant job with these caches.

We've had a great time. That's the third one we've found now.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Where else have you been?

JO DYSON: We found one called. You can't see the wood for the

trees. That was the first one. It took us a while to find that

one, actually.

RICH FOSTER: Yeah.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: It's a bit tricky is a lot of places it

could hide. So you haven't found my favourite one yet, which is

Druids Writing desk. No we haven’t...

JO DYSON: Druids writing desk? What a great name.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: You'll understand when you see it.

JO DYSON: Curious to know why is your favourite?

MOLLY OLDFIELD: The container for it was made by one of our

volunteers here at the site, and it's very unique and very

special.

RICH FOSTER: Oh, fantastic.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Let's have a look at your app now.

We're getting close to it.

JO DYSON: Oh, 21 meters. And actually it's saying let's turn

left. I mean, I think I'd be really struggling without this

compass... what’s that?

RICH FOSTER: There's something... you've just come

upon a log standing by itself.

JO DYSON: It looks a little bit manmade. And I do remember Molly

saying that it's made by a volunteer. Does this top of the

log look like it twists around?

RICH FOSTER: Look at that. It's swivelling.

JO DYSON: Oh, look at that. Oh, that is beautiful.

RICH FOSTER: So the inside of a log has been hollowed out.

JO DYSON: And then inside is... the cache.

RICH FOSTER: Oh, Jo, I can see how happy you are finding this

one.

JO DYSON: I am!

RICH FOSTER: You gone from being a complete beginner to being a

little bit addicted.

JO DYSON: So I filled out the logbook.

RICH FOSTER: Okay, I'm just going to put some swag in here.

JO DYSON: People have already been here today.

The puddle jumpers.

RICH FOSTER: Molly, Why is it called the Druids writing desk

then?

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Yes. If you look over here behind the trees,

there's a certain rock that is named Druids writing desk. Yes.

So it's that rock there. I think in the modern times, people call

it ET.

JO DYSON: That is incredible. So that rock that's perched on the

sort of plinth almost-

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Yes

JO DYSON: That is the Druids writing desk. So is it called a

desk because the top of that rock is very flat, isn't it?

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

JO DYSON: It's... I can't fathom how that sort of perched on top

of that plinth. It looks like it could almost topple offer any

point, but just stood here and looking out beyond... I mean

it's absolutely beautiful. I can just see miles and miles and

miles of green landscape in the background.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: This is the valley of Nidderdale, so it's

predominantly farmland. It's an area of outstanding natural

beauty.

JO DYSON: I can see that. I see why exactly! Are there any

others that take in an incredible view like this.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Yes. So there is another one called Mushroom

Rock, which is a bit further out, nearly 700 meters away,

leaving the rocks behind, going onto the moor. It's a bit more

wild. You have to go over different terrain and there's a

little bit of scrambling involved to get to the cache.

JO DYSON: This sounds absolutely right up my street. What do you

think, Rich? Have we got time to find a fifth?

RICH FOSTER: Oh, let's do it.

JO DYSON: So, Rich, you've travelled all over the world as

well with your geocaching, haven't you? Where's the most

extreme place that you've been?

RICH FOSTER: Around the world? I think Singapore Airport.

JO DYSON: Yes, yeah

RICH FOSTER: They have a butterfly garden you can go into

while you're waiting for your flight. And there's Geocache in

there. I wouldn't have known about the butterfly garden in

the airport without having Geocaching there to take me

there.

JO DYSON: That's brilliant. What’s the sort of most extreme

cache that you've heard of? Do you think you have any on the

moon?

RICH FOSTER: Not sure about the moon. There is one on the

International Space Station.

JO DYSON: Is there?!

RICH FOSTER: Yes, there is!

JO DYSON: Who took that up there?

RICH FOSTER: Not me! One of the astronauts.

JO DYSON: And do we know what's in that cache?

RICH FOSTER: There is a log book, I think. Obviously hasn't

been signed by many people. Hasn't been found by many

people.

JO DYSON: No, that wasn't on our top list of ten things. Was that

rocket to get to that one?

RICH FOSTER: Indeed.

JO DYSON: Now, it’s saying we’re three meters. I suppose we need

to go right to the mushroom, do we?

Mollie's looking knowingly. Look. There's a tiny little hole

at the side here, so there is a bit of scrambling involved

downwards.

MOLLY OLDFIELD: So you might.

RICH FOSTER: Okay, there's a couple of steps here in the

rock. I'm going to go first.

JO DYSON: Yep. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to press the hint.

Look at the base of a rock shaped like a mushroom. Okay.

This is why we need to go down just scrambling between two

rocks.

RICH FOSTER: Now I'm going to walk away in a sort of smug

fashion, Jo.

JO DYSON: Oh, okay. I think Rich has seen something.

Now there is a hole.

Hole down there...

Is there something under this grass?

MOLLY OLDFIELD: Do we give her a clue?

JO DYSON: Yeah. I need another hint.

RICH FOSTER: You need to be on your right hand side a bit more

further. Right.

JO DYSON: I love it, Rich is like warm, warmer. Am I hot?

RICH FOSTER: It’s getting warmer

JO DYSON: In here?

RICH FOSTER: Have a look underneath something. There's a

hint. There's a hint.

JO DYSON: Oh, that's cool.

I mean, that is the perfect spot for us. I mean, Rich, you have

super senses. How on earth did you see that?

RICH FOSTER: You just get tuned in to looking for Tupperware

after a while. Jo.

JO DYSON: Oh, I don't know how you saw that straightaway, but

look at that spot. That's the perfect little hiding space.

RICH FOSTER: It's got a little barrier of grass in front of it,

so you can't quite see it.

JO DYSON: Yeah, that's grown up beautifully to hide it.

I mean, I just don't really want to stop here now. I know we

don’t have time to carry on, but it is really quite addictive,

isn't it?

RICH FOSTER: You just want to keep going. I mean, the

landscape's brilliant, isn't it?

Cache’s should bring you somewhere interesting.

JO DYSON: Yeah.

RICH FOSTER: To answer that question. Why are you bring in

the cacher here. And you're bringing me here because this is

a fabulous place, so I'm going to find them all. Now I'm going

to head off and find them all Jo!

JO DYSON: I’ll join you then!

JO DYSON: Thank you for listening to this episode of the National

Trust Podcast to find more episodes, go to

nationaltrust.org.uk/podcasts or search for the National Trust

Podcast in your favourite podcast app.

If you've listened to this far, we have a little hidden bonus

for you. We have planted our own audio geo cache at Brimham

Rocks. Here is your hint ‘poetry set in stone. We'll be back soon

with a new episode. But for now, from me, Jo Dyson, goodbye.