Erin: Hello pals.

Before we dive into this episode, we have a really important update to share.

We were contacted by a company in the US that felt our podcast name and

logo infringed on their registered

Kattie: trademarks.

So despite how we feel about this claim, Erin and I have made the decision

to move away from our previous name, alpaca my bags, and our previous logo.

And so in the next week or two, we will be launching a new name and a new logo.

So get excited because it's gonna be good.

Erin: Don't worry.

This doesn't change anything about the content we make.

We are still focused on making episodes about how travel can be

better for people and for the planet.

And just a quick note, please don't dmm us or ask us anything about this.

Our lawyer won't allow us to say anything more.

Thank you.

When I think about my own experiences as a passenger on flights, I

realize I can't think of any single time that I noticed a woman

identifying pilot boarding the plane.

I.

We're making those in-flight announcements.

This is because the aviation industry has basically forever

been white and dominated by men.

According to 2020, data from the FA a's Aeronautical Center,

about 7% of commercial airline pilots that year were women.

What's more is that there isn't much diversity amongst the

women who actually are pilots.

In an A, B, C article from 2020, it's reported that less than 1% of

pilots in the US are black women.

Joy Schweitzer is part of that 1%.

She's a commercial airline pilot and athlete, and she's also

known for her appearance on the Reality TV show The Mole.

Today we're chatting with Joy about her journey into aviation, the barriers

that black women are facing in the industry, and how those barriers

should be addressed and overcome.

Kattie: Okay, so this is your reminder that if you aren't already subscribe

to the show, then go ahead and hit the follow button right now on Apple

Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app because we have so many

more episodes coming this season.

And trust me, you're gonna like

Erin: them.

If you wanna get in touch with us, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter.

We're at alpaca, my bakes pod and alpaca pals.

Please leave us a review.

Yes, that's a great way to get in touch with us.

We love seeing what you have to say about the show, what

you like, what you don't like.

Just just write.

Write a little novel in the comments for us.

Kattie: Be honest, puppy.

Nice.

Also, you can dmm us or even email us anytime all of our

contact info is in the show notes.

Aaron.

So an exciting update has come out, um, as of June 1st of this year that

Delta is developing the new first of its kind airline seat that allows,

uh, wheelchair users to stay in their chairs, which is a very, very exciting

thing for you and I to hear about.

And also they're in collaboration with Air for All, which was on,

Chris was on the show last season.

Erin: Hey, that's

Kattie: awesome news.

Very exciting.

So these seats are exactly what he was telling us about.

They are a special kind of design seat that folds up, and then your power

wheelchair or regular wheelchair can just kind of pop right in and clip in.

So, very exciting news.

I am so pumped to hear about this.

Don't really have any other details.

Uh, I think it's still kind of like in the works to create sort of a

concept chair, so it hasn't really been implemented just yet, but to see like

a major airline like Delta working with air for all already and like kind of

working on the prototype is like very, very encouraging and like way overdue.

So big exciting news.

Erin: Yeah.

Love to see it.

Some progress is better than no progress.

Exactly.

But I hope they're speedy about it.

'cause it, like you say, it's long overdue.

I'd be curious to know if this will be ruled out like on a broad

scale, like every single flight.

Mm-hmm.

Or if they'll do.

The shitty thing and only only, um, provided on some flights.

This is what it

Kattie: says in this article from Insiders.

So it says they're working on a prototype that would be officially debuted at the

Aircraft Interiors Expo on June 6th.

So that was quite a while ago, but the seat would still need to be

certified and tested before making its way onto the plane cabin.

So we'll see how much kind of bureaucracy happens in between of the prototype to

actually implementing it on the plane.

And obviously we know that there's like a.

Decent chunk of money involved in making that happen.

But yeah, hopefully this is good news and we see some good stuff happening.

Maybe we'll have to have like my end back on the show because she travels a

lot and, um, there's a probably pretty high likelihood that if this was to

happen that she would likely be one of the users to first experience it.

So if it does happen, we will stay tuned and see, uh, if she ends up

ever having this experience and maybe

Erin: catching up with her.

Yeah, I'd love to know what the experience is like.

So we should definitely check in with her once we know that these are out.

Mm-hmm.

I'm curious what she would have to say about like, how much confidence

this gives her about flying.

Like maybe it'll make her feel a renewed confidence, or maybe this is

just like one little thing that might help a bit, but like there's still

a lot of space for many things to go wrong if you're flying in a wheelchair.

So, yeah.

I'm curious her thoughts

Kattie: there.

Yeah, because the, I mean, the seat is one.

Piece of progress, but the bathroom is another that still needs to be

figured out because we know that even able-bodied folks can barely fit

into an airplane, airplane washroom.

So, uh, yeah, we'll see what happens about that.

Especially with long haul flights.

Like if you're traveling to Japan, I don't know what.

Someone in a wheelchair is gonna do about the bathroom situation.

Um, so again, this is the first step, but yeah.

More to come.

Erin: There's also the whole airport experience.

Yes.

The whole airport experience, which has we learned is also a huge problem.

Yeah.

I mean, if anyone's listening and they're curious about this, 'cause we have done

a whole episode about this, um, with Mayan and with Chris from Air For All.

So I think it was episode 87, it's called Why Can't Wheelchairs Roll Onto Planes?

Kattie: Mm-hmm.

One more thing I noticed in this, uh, insider article, which we will

post in the show notes as well.

No window

Erin: seat.

Oh.

I mean, this is off topic, but now I need to know.

Are you a window seat person?

Yes.

Oh, I'm not.

Kattie: Immediately, yes.

I'm a window seat person.

Erin: I, so many people are, I'm not at all.

Kattie: I love a view, like I love looking at the window.

Like I, I don't know.

I just love it.

Erin: The only thing I like about the window seat is sometimes I can, it's hold.

Okay, so if it's a short flight, yes, window seat, but if I'm flying like

through the night, Over an ocean.

I know I'm not gonna be looking out the window, so I just wanna be in the aisle

because I hate sitting for a long time.

As you know, I have a standing desk, like I cannot sit for long periods of time.

So when you're in the aisle, I like it 'cause I can get up

and walk around whenever I want without having to bother anyone.

And I get very in my head about like waking someone el someone up to

get up even to go to the bathroom.

I have like held.

My pee for so long on flights because I'm so nervous to ask someone if I

can get up and go to the bathroom.

And so for that reason, I am a I L C person.

Well, it sounds like

Kattie: we would be perfectly paired together on an airplane then we would

Erin: be, oh, not to like tease something, but there's a

possibility that you, it's true.

You'll be on a flight together this

Kattie: year.

I'm very, very excited about this.

I mean, Also just a hot tip for, um, for people who maybe don't go on airplanes

that often and are just kind of listening to this podcast for like travel inspo

and like some advice or whatever.

I thought it was a good idea to book the seats of the very front

of the row, very, very front.

Because you know, it's easy access off the plane, it's more

leg room, that kind of thing.

I recently booked them for a trip to Portugal when we went,

uh, mark and I went last year.

And so basically the little TV screens that you get, they are not

attached to the wall in front of you.

They're attached to this big arm that comes up between the seats

and then comes up in front of you.

So if you wanna like get up and go to the bathroom, you have to like tuck it

away and it's kind of in whole ordeal.

But especially if you are.

Sitting beside someone who is not super tech savvy or like, just doesn't

really get how things, basically, we sat beside this lady who I could

just tell like, so we, when we got to the airport, we had to get on a

shuttle to get, bring us to the plane.

And on the shuttle, this lady was talking people's ears off just ta

chatting, chatting, chatting, chatting.

And I spotted her and I was like, something in the universe told

me she was gonna sit beside me.

I just knew it.

And then we get on the plane and lo and behold, this lady has the window

seat beside me and she couldn't figure out how to get her screen up.

So I had to help her get her screen up and like, I don't mind being a nice,

like helpful citizen, but in that moment, like when you're in the travel zone,

especially when you're on an airplane, like I find it, most people end up in like

a very isolated type of like, Existence.

They just like wanna get on the plane and get off and not talk to

anybody and just do their own thing.

So she, she couldn't figure out her arm.

I had to help her, her help her out with the, the TV arm.

And then also, when you're sitting in the very front, you need to stow your

bags overhead instead of in front of the seat, in front of you, because

obviously there's no seat in front of you.

So there's, right before you take off.

Your bag has to go overhead.

Uh, and then during the flight you can obviously take it down, but she

did not get the memo on this even though people were walking around.

Telling everybody to put their stuff overhead.

So Mark and I had already done that, but she didn't get the memo until too late

and then she had to like walk by us.

She basically kept walking by us like over and over again.

Your ultimate fear about having the window seat she was doing,

she was doing all of these things.

She kept getting up in the plane and walking around and didn't know the rules.

And I don't know what my big rant up is about this lady, but.

Just know if you're sitting in the front, front row of the, uh, airplane,

you have responsibilities as a traveler.

You need to sit the heck down.

You have to stow your, stow, your luggage ahead, and you need to

figure out how to use that arm.

And if you're not prepared for these responsibilities, then

don't book that front row.

That's, that's my message to you,

Erin: Katie.

I wish you had consulted me 'cause I could have told you this.

I could have told you this.

Row two.

It's all about

Kattie: row two.

I didn't think it was something to consult about.

I never would've guessed.

You don't know what you don't know.

Erin: You know?

I mean, I guess like the nice thing is you have like the most leg room, but Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I always go for like row two to six is like the sweet spot, I would say.

All right.

Well, are you ready to chat with Joy?

Let's do it.

Hi, joy.

Hi.

I'm excited to chat with you because I realized we've made over 80 episodes of

this podcast, which is about travel, and we have never spoken with a pilot, and

that seems wild to me now because pilots are so integral to like all things travel.

Yes.

Joi: I'm so happy to be here and I can't wait to, to share a little

part of, of me, and, um, My favorite thing to do in the world, which

is, or one of my favorite things to do in the world, which is travel.

In my opinion, you know, I'm biased, but I, I think that I

have the best job in the world.

Erin: Oh, I think you probably do.

I'm not gonna lie, I, I kind of regret not thinking more about

becoming a pilot myself, but this is a story for another time.

But yeah.

I wanted to ask, what inspired you to become

Joi: a pilot?

I was always such an adventurous kid.

My parents took note of it.

And my dad would look at my mom and say, why does she have a notepad in her hand?

Looking up in the sky 24 7?

It was easy to know that I had an interest in in aircraft, and I would stare for

hours it seemed like at airplanes and write down all of my observations.

So one day my dad finally looked at my mom and said, you know,

let's take her to the flight line.

So, yay dad.

He is a retired Air Force guy and always around airplanes, and so he

would take my siblings and I to, uh, the flight line and put us behind the

controls of the military aircraft.

And I was so intrigued by all of the buttons and switches and how an airplane

can stay up in the, in the air and fly.

So fast forward a few years later, you know, I'm this kid who has a passion

for, for flying obviously, but I ended up going to college for something else.

And after I graduated from school, you know, still, uh, strongly had

a, a passion for, for airplanes and wanted to become a pilot.

And so I asked my parents, I said, look, you know, I know I just

graduated from school, but I.

Want to be a pilot and can we make this happen?

Can I go to flight school?

Um, so my mom and all of her wisdom says flight school is very, very expensive.

Why don't you become a flight attendant to kind of get your feet

wet in the industry and figure out if it's something that you really

wanna do, because the schedules are.

Rigorous.

I said, okay, I'll give it a shot.

So I became a flight attendant with a major airline and I did just that.

I got my feet wet and I really enjoyed the schedules.

I.

Met incredible people along the way.

I joined various organizations like Women in Aviation, organization of

Black Aerospace Professionals, and networked with people, and they

pointed me in the right direction and I ended up making my way from the back

of the airplane to the front of the airplane, and it wasn't an easy feat.

I would drop most of my trips.

Fly on my days off pretty much.

And I was, you know, always tired.

But when you really want something in life, you're gonna go after it

with your mind, body, and soul.

And that's exactly what I did.

And here I am today.

I put in the work, I was very expensive.

I ended up moving back home with my parents for a little bit.

I, uh, even rode a bike to and from flight school to save money.

Saved up enough money and.

Put myself through school.

Could you

Erin: describe sort of the experience of being a commercial airline pilot?

I think like especially we see like depictions in movies and

on screen of it, but what is it?

What is it really?

Like?

What is a typical working day like for you?

Joi: A typical working day for me, uh, would be commuting

to my base, which is Miami.

I live in Atlanta, so I'll commute to ami when I get to the airport, I'll have lunch

and, uh, by the time I'm finished eating, answering emails, speaking to my husband

and son, it's time to, um, To go off to my gate and get ready for my flight.

So, you know, when I get to the gate, I'll see the flight attendants, the the

pilot, and we'll establish a repo, a rapport, and we'll talk about our day.

You know, sometimes we're with the same flight attendants.

For a day or two, sometimes not, maybe it'll only be for just one

leg and we'll talk about all that.

We'll talk about the weather and after we brief, kind, kind of in the,

um, jet bridge or on the aircraft sometimes, then it's time to.

To go into the aircraft and build my nest.

And what that entails is taking out my iPad and setting it up, adjusting my

seat, and setting up the flight plan.

And then we figure out the pi, the captain, and I figure out who's gonna fly.

Uh, first, um, nine times outta 10, he takes the first leg, and then I'll

fly the second leg, and then I'll go down and I'll do a walk around.

What I'm checking there is to make sure the aircraft is

in an air worthy condition.

So you never wanna walk around an airplane and see, uh, fluid

coming out of an airplane.

You know, that's, that's bad number one with flying.

It's, it's all about safety.

You wanna make sure you get yourself and your passengers from point A to point B.

In a safe manner.

And so after I do the walk around and everything checks out fine, uh, the

captain and I talk about the flight.

So I call it, I have an acronym for a b t.

We'll always be talking.

So we talk about everything and once we brief, we'll push back

from the gate taxi to the runway, and then it's time for lift off.

And that's the fun part for me.

Taking off and landing.

It's, I've been doing this total.

Somebody asked me today, I was like, Hmm.

I've been doing this for about 13 and a half, 14 years.

And I still get excited to take off and land, especially land my heart, you

know, it's like the adrenaline is pumping and to make it easier to understand

for a person that isn't familiar with, uh, navigating in the air, in the sky.

It's similar to hopping in your car and going down the freeway and respecting,

you know, the, uh, the speed restrictions.

And it's the same thing with being in the air.

You know, we have speed restrictions, we have altitude constraints

sometimes, and you kind of wanna look at it like that, like you're

driving your car on the freeway.

You're trying to get to point A to point B, you're looking at A G P S.

We have this exact same thing in an airplane and they're called waypoint.

So we're flying from waypoint to Waypoint to get to our destination.

Erin: Okay, gotcha.

I actually wanted to bring this up because I was, I.

Recently in Belize and while I was there I had to take a small charter flight

and a local in the town I was in told me that if I asked to sit up front with

the pilot, that they might say yes.

So this is a hot tip for anyone going to Belize.

Just like go to the desk and ask.

That's amazing.

'cause I did.

And they, they were like, sure.

So I found myself like sitting in the front of this tiny little plane

next to the pilot and it was such an experience because I saw like what

the pilot does to fly the plane.

So yeah, one of my biggest takeaways was how much of the flight seemed

to be automated because I thought he would be engaged the entire flight.

But once we were up in the air, he kind of like set all these buttons

and knobs and stuff and then he was just like chatting with me.

And writing things down in his notebook.

And this was surprising to me.

Is this like a new innovation in flying?

Has it always been this way or is this just like new technology?

You know,

Joi: with, uh, anything like, uh, a cell phone or a computer,

a television, those electronic devices are always getting upgraded.

So it's similar to aircraft.

Um, you have flight computers that are getting upgraded or.

I was thinking for a company like this, they probably had a budget to where they

had, he probably had a glass cockpit, uh, with an autopilot and um, he could

just turn on the autopilot and fly, you know, with the airplane flying itself.

I will say, when I first started out in my flying days, oh my

gosh, I wish I would've had that.

I flew the antiquated way with.

Analogs and nothing was digitized at all.

So I had a knee board and would take my own notes, you know, and

then I had a map on my, on my other leg, and I would fly with.

My antiquated system of, you know, analog flying and flying from, uh, v o r to v o

r, which is, if I were to do that today, I probably need, you know, a couple days

to kind of refresh on that kind of flying.

When I started to advance in my career and I became a commercial

airline pilot, I, uh, I saw a glass cockpit for the first time.

So everything is right there in front of you.

I don't need a knee board.

I don't need a map on my, on my.

My thigh, everything is, is set up for your viewing and it's user friendly

and you don't have to do much.

And when I went from flying with a six pack is what we call it, instruments,

and then moving to a glass cockpit, it took me a while to kind of just

take it, take it, take it all in.

I'm like, this is, this is really cool.

And of course, you know, you go to training and the simulator to,

uh, to learn how to fly glasses.

Cockpit, but that's awesome.

Um, first and foremost, it's, it's amazing that you got a chance to fly up

there with him and witness all of that.

Erin: Um, maybe this is a silly question, but I am very curious

because I was wondering why.

There was only one pilot in this plane and they had this extra seat up front

when clearly, like at some point they may have had two pilots up there.

And I know that commercial flights like usually do have two pilots.

Why is that and why would some flights only

Joi: need one?

So it's absolutely vital for two pilots to sit in a, in an airplane together in

the airline transport professional world, uh, because they're larger airplanes.

It could have been, I.

A smaller airplane where you don't need two pilots because

of the weight of the aircraft.

So the bigger the airplane, uh, the more advanced the airplane, the

mini, you know, the more passengers you have and you want, uh, two

pilots up there for safety reasons.

Uh, and I'll kind of break that down a little bit to, you have

what's called a pm, a pilot monitoring and a pf a pilot flying.

So, We split the duties and the, uh, duties are well defined.

The pilot flying, of course, flies the airplane from point A to

point B and the pilot monitoring.

Uh, talks on the radios.

The pilot monitoring is monitoring the flight instruments, the flight parameters

to make sure engines are looking good.

Uh, the oil, the pressure, making sure the, the, the flight is,

um, doing the airplane is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

So yeah, you absolutely 100% want two pilots in, uh, the

commercial airline world.

There have been cases recently, you know, I.

The captain passing away on takeoff.

It broke my heart.

You know, the copilot, the first officer, knew exactly what to do, so he took

over the airplane and landed it safely.

And, uh, so that's why you want two people up there.

Erin: Yeah, actually, like I was also wondering because I've taken flights

that were like 18 hours long and wondered like, do do pilots sleep?

Like are you awake that entire time?

Yes.

Or do you get to take a

Joi: nap?

That is a good question because we do, I.

Have long demanding days, and those are transcon flights.

So, uh, your Y bodies are flying those, uh, long, international

10 hour, 15, 18 hour flights, and you have three people up there.

So you have a person sitting in the back and then you have your captain.

Your first officer sitting up front and you do rotate.

So on a long flight you talk about the breaks and how you're gonna

divide it between the three people.

You usually do this before the airplane takes off after takeoff.

So three people must be in the flight deck for the takeoff and landing.

When you get in.

Crews, usually the um, third pilot.

We'll go and take a break for three to four hours, and then once he or she comes

back, then the first officer goes back.

And so you rotate it that way.

But yes, pilots must be fit to fly number one, and so resting and

taking those much needed breaks for a long flight like that is needed.

Popping

Kattie: in here.

Quick joy, because you just made me think about just how demanding

and exhausting this job seems.

Does your body know what time it is anymore or what day it is?

Like how, how is your body dealing with kind of covering.

The global landscape Sure.

In different time zones.

Joi: That is a really good question.

The body is smart.

Uh, my body knows when I'm home.

My body knows when I am flying a transcon flight.

And what I do, I try to make sure.

That I am resting well at home, I'm working out.

I'm eating a clean diet because if I don't, if, if one thing is lacking, for

instance my sleep, then I'm gonna suffer.

You know, when I get to my overnight, let's just say I get done with a red eye.

In California, if I didn't sleep well two nights ago, then my, I have

that sleep debt and it's gonna be difficult for me to, to go to sleep.

So I have a system, so when I get to the hotel, I'll spray, you know, my bed with

a lavender, I'll take a hot shower, I'll wind down, I'll read a little bit, and

I'll take maybe like three milligrams of melatonin only on a red eye light, just

to make sure that my body knows, look.

It's, you're gonna bed at kind of, of a weird hour, but you need to get to sleep.

And of course when I get home, the husband and son are very gracious and they

allow mom to, to catch up on, on rest.

If I.

Didn't sleep all that well.

That's

Kattie: key.

Erin, you're, it's making me think of The Bachelorette we're reality TV

fans and with a recent Bachelorette was a pilot and the whole thing

was like, can you be a good husband to me, Rachel, when I come home?

Rachel?

Yes.

I love, she's so cute.

So, So glad to hear that you have found a husband and a partner that

will support your pilot dreams 'cause that is clearly so clear.

And the last thing we need is a pilot who's sleepy, so, oh, exactly.

Very

Joi: glad to hear it.

Yeah, we keep ourselves, uh, healthy.

If one pilot is feeling not the best, we can call our company and say,

Uh, I don't feel fit to fly and the company knows exactly what to do.

We come off of a trip and they'll replace that pilot, um, with someone else.

So we take safety very serious and we take being fit to fly

our bodies Very, very serious.

Erin: I wanted to talk a little bit about the aviation landscape,

mainly because it's for a very long time, been white and male dominated,

especially in the field of pilots.

Even when I think about my own experiences as a passenger on

flights, I've realized that like I can't think of not any single time.

I noticed a woman identifying pilot boarding the plane or making

announcements, and I was curious about this, so I was like, okay, I gotta

check the data to like know for sure.

Um, so what I found is that according to 2020 data from Thea's Aeronautical

Center, about 7% of commercial airline pilots that year we're women.

What's more is that there isn't much diversity among the

women who actually are pilots.

An a, b, C article from 2020, which you're actually quoted in reports that less than

1% of pilots in the US are black women.

So yeah.

Given all this, what does it mean to you to be one of the few black women

pilots in such a white and male dominated

Joi: industry?

Oh, I love this question and thanks for asking, uh, asking it means

for me that hard work paid off.

You know, it's a dream that I saw through and I am.

Grateful for my parents for planting that seed when I was a little girl and

saying, you can be anything you wanna be.

I definitely earned it.

I wasn't handed anything.

It was hard work.

I made a, a plan when I was a flight attendant.

I remember being in the back of the airplane, uh, flying L

two, that's what we called it.

I took a pen and I wrote on the back of a seat, manifest exactly.

How I would see this dream through.

And I remember writing finances, question mark, who do I need to call question mark.

I met this person and, uh, should I call this person on this day?

So I made sure that I did everything that I wrote in that piece of paper.

And back then, I didn't know that I was practicing what I call, I, I made

a little acronym called my four Ps.

Put it to pen.

Uh, picture yourself doing it.

Put it to play and then be purposeful.

So I did all of that and I didn't even know I was doing it back then.

I started doing this two years ago because, uh, I

needed to get more organized.

And so little did I know that these four Ps, writing it down,

picturing yourself in the aircraft, Putting it to and actually did that.

I would take pictures of myself in my flight attendant uniform and take pictures

of myself and make it a screensaver and look at that picture every day and tell

myself you're going to be there one day.

And then I put it to play.

So as I mentioned earlier, I ended up moving back home

with my parents to save money.

I ended up.

Went out for scholarships.

Uh, I found the funding to make it happen, you know, saving money, taking

a little bit of money out of, you know, my savings and, uh, taking out

some flight loans, which I'm grateful that I have paid 'em off to this day.

And then my last PE purposeful.

So I had an intent and I was very intentional about.

Everything I set my mind to.

So I think those components there is what builds a successful human

vehicle, and that vehicle is gonna be what will drive yourself to success.

And also, I really like this question because I talked a lot about a lot

of about myself, but paying it free.

Board, I had people to help me.

I had, uh, women that I looked up to in this industry to sit down

with me and help me make a plan.

Uh, men too, uh, very instrumental in my lives and I want to be

that same for somebody else.

And I am that same.

You know, I have mentee that have people that I help, that

I encourage, and I love it.

And that's what it's about.

It's about helping the next.

Female pilot and, and especially women of color pilots, make

it to, to where they wanna be.

Make it to your level, so, It gives me great joy to give back.

Erin: Oh, I love it.

The four P's are like a blueprint for manifesting.

Yes, and I'm going to like fully start using

Joi: these.

Oh my gosh, do it.

Do my own life.

It's a game changer, I

Erin: swear by them.

So there's such an extreme lack of diversity among pilots in the us.

So I'm curious if you could speak to what barriers that you experienced as you were

going on this journey of like achieving this goal to be a black woman pilot.

What are sort of the main barriers that you faced or you've seen other

women facing, and how can people be supported in overcoming these barriers?

Joi: Finances was a biggie for me.

Flight school is very expensive and when I was going through flight school,

there weren't as many scholarships.

As they are now, which I'm grateful that there are, there's

so many scholarships out there.

There's various organizations that, um, young women can join to, uh,

to get these scholarships and, you know, excellent mentorship.

So finances and exposure.

So you definitely want to.

See yourself represented in the industry.

And I like to look at the glass, um, half full and it is 7%, but in 20, I believe

it was either 2015 or 2017, it was 5%.

And so as long Oh wow.

As I see a upward trend in my industry, I'm happy with that.

I'm always getting young girls excited about in the airport and when they

come up to the flight deck, I'm like, you know, have you ever, this, you

know, has this ever crossed your mind?

This is really fun.

This is a really.

Is a great career.

Like you get paid to go on vacation, you get paid a lot of money to go on

vacation, especially if they're, you know, in their teens and now teens

nowadays are, they're too cool for school.

I would say, look, I was in Boston yesterday in a winter

coat, but you know where I'll be?

Today I'll be in Nassau, you know, in a bikini on the beach, drinking a

mocktail and getting paid, you know.

But with any profession, with anything, you are gonna make sacrifices.

Um, and I think sometimes what makes some women may be hesitant is the.

Amount of time that you're away from home.

And in the beginning I was away from home.

It was difficult.

But now that I am working for my dream company, I have a great schedule.

I had weekends off and I'm able to take my son to baseball and

soccer and bit around that.

I would encourage any young girl to, to pursue a

Erin: career as a pilot.

Yeah, I love that.

You know, I've talked with other women on this show about breaking into industries

that are dominated by men, and something that I've always noticed as a recurring

theme is that it's hard to break into a field or an industry when you can't

find yourself represented there already.

And so it's nice to hear that like you take the time to talk to young women,

especially young black women, and show them that this is a possibility for them.

Joi: Yeah, and you know, it's not just me, uh, my colleagues at

my company, they do it as well.

We took a trip to LaGuardia a couple months ago and oh my God, this

was such a powerful experience.

The children were about 12.

They were 12, 13 years old, and they were so excited about.

So we were able to present them with, uh, Mattel sponsored it.

We were able to present them with Barbie dolls and they got to see

themselves, you know, they were minority girls and boys and.

They looked at me and my, you know, colleagues and they saw

themselves and us, and I, I loved it.

I loved every minute

Erin: of it.

Oh, that's so good to hear.

Another thing I wonder about is, I imagine going to flight school and even

just like your daily experience of being a pilot can be challenging sometimes

because you might be the only woman or the only black woman in class or sitting.

In the plane.

Is this something you've experienced and is it hard to navigate?

Do you experience like microaggressions ever?

Or would you say like people are really, really supportive?

Joi: Um, I've experienced, uh, I've experienced both.

Just like with any profession, you're going to have microaggressions,

you're gonna have, you know, a little bit of bigotry.

But that's fine.

If I could go back and tell my younger self anything, it would

be, To be secure in yourself.

Know your worth, know your power.

You're competent.

You are capable.

You can do anything you put your mind to.

You make the haters, your motivators, and you know, and when you walk into,

uh, a sim lesson or a ground school and you know your stuff and you fly

that airplane like the back of your hand, no one can say anything to you.

It hasn't been a lot of it, which I'm grateful for, but, You know,

in the beginning, I did hear of remarks when I was trying to pursue,

uh, becoming a pilot as a flight attendant, and I let that be fire up

under me, and I'm like, you know what?

I'm going to make it happen.

They're gonna see me one day on tv.

They're gonna see me on social media, and they're gonna see, they're gonna

say, you know, I have to put, uh, my foot, you know, in my mouth.

And she, she made it happen.

So never let anybody discourage you and.

I would be my words of wisdom to.

Myself as a kid and also to the, to the next girl behind me is to be secure.

A pilot

Erin: is a pilot.

That's such good advice, and I guess with like every woman who joins

the industry, like it'll only get easier and easier as time goes on,

as like more women become part of it.

I wanted to talk a little bit about solutions.

Obviously lack of diversity as a systemic issue in a lot of industries,

and there's a lot of nuance to this problem that I think is really hard

to come up with like a totally.

Fail safe blueprint for creating more diversity.

But as a woman who is experiencing this firsthand, what in your mind are some

important steps that could be taken to help diversify aviation specifically?

My

Joi: company is excellent and inspiring and making sure women of

color pilots are represented at, you know, local high schools and colleges.

So I am grateful that I'm with a company that's diverse.

We believe in diversity and I think that word of mouth exposing parents, exposing

your kids at a at a young age too.

Airplanes and two aviation stem programs.

My son, as, as mentioned, you know, mom, I think I kind of wanna do what you're

doing one day and so I, I'm taking him to museums, to, uh, aviation museums.

He takes STEM classes and I am trying to get my nephews and my friend's friends,

because I'll say pilots, produce pilots.

I've noticed that.

If I'm flying with, uh, like people where their kids are going to flight

school and they're assisting, uh, their kids and making that dream happen.

So yeah, it's just getting your, your family, uh, the kids in your

family excited about it and, um, doing what my company is doing, going

to, to high schools and colleges.

Inspiring and getting kids motivated and talking about the industry.

Also, there are various organizations like Sisters of the Skies and Organizational,

black Aerospace Professionals.

I think I mentioned them earlier, and, uh, women in aviation that, um,

are are excellent avenues as well.

So they are out there and I will say I am super excited about,

uh, a book that I'm writing.

It's too.

Get kids excited about my industry.

You know, you, you have kids that are excited about making dances on TikTok

and, uh, you know, uh, teenagers excited about other things like entrepreneurship.

Why not?

I.

Write a book and get kids excited about it and make it look cool,

you know, because it is cool.

It's a, it's a very cool industry.

I'm very, very positive and I know that the needle is moving in the right

direction and more people of color, more women are joining my incredible industry.

Erin: It's interesting that you mentioned that pilots produce pilots.

'cause this is something I've noticed as well and I was thinking about this and

I think like that it could be because the role of a pilot is pretty unseen.

You don't really see pilots on your flight.

Like you will maybe see them when you board the plane, but really

they're just this like voice that comes over the speaker occasionally.

Yes.

Joi: This is your, I think this is what I

Erin: found.

Yeah.

I think this is why like that.

Um, flight I took in Belize, like had such an impact on me because

it was like, wow, like I've never seen this before, even though I've

sat on a plane countless times.

It's interesting to think about it in that context.

And then I think also because travel is such a financial privilege, like many

young girls and women might not have the chance to even ever take a flight.

So the world of aviation can just be like this unknown thing to so

Joi: many people.

And that's correct.

Um, because when I was a kid, I, the reason why I didn't

pursue it wholeheartedly as a kid is because I, I never.

I took trips as a kid, but I never saw I'd be in the back and, you know, you'll,

you'll hear the voice and there would be times where I would go on the flight

deck and be inquisitive, but, um, most kids are, or, you know, young adults

are in the back and they, they hear the pilot, but they don't see the pilot.

I.

So it's just this thing where you see airplanes, but who's, who's

behind the airplane, you know?

And it's, um, it's definitely my job and duty as a woman to get my

industry out there and, um, prove to, to, uh, to young boys and girls that.

It's just as cool as, you know, getting an M B A and studying psychology and,

you know, and you know, engineering.

It's awesome.

Yeah, it's freaking

Erin: awesome.

I really love how you've been putting, like, so much effort

yourself into changing this.

Like, I found you through TikTok and was super excited to come across your content

because like, I just, I hadn't seen any like, Pilot representation on TikTok

before, um, and then also through your appearance in the Netflix show, the Mole.

Yeah.

I think it's really great how you're using these sort of like untraditional

avenues to bring more visibility to, especially like black women

Joi: pilots.

Yeah, for sure.

Um, I.

I love social media.

At first, I would shy away from it because I'm like, I don't really wanna put myself

out there, but I can't think about myself.

I can't be selfish.

I have to share with others, and I have to let impressionable young

girl, um, who may be kind of like, I don't know what I really wanna do.

Uh, but I'm at adventurous.

I don't want the nine to five.

And why not make a cool TikTok video about being a pilot?

You know, social media is a excellent tool.

Nowadays, in today's society, things are at your fingertips.

So using TikTok and and Instagram, I love Instagram and just sharing

my awesome career with the world is, is what makes me happy.

And I, I've gotten.

Hundreds of, uh, dms and emails, and I try to respond to every single one,

especially when I got off of the show, um, young people reaching out to me

about pursuing a career as a pilot.

And I try to steer them in the best way I know how.

I'll ask questions and, you know, see what they're studying and um,

and just tell 'em to go for it all.

It is sometimes is Googling your local flight school, taking

an introductory flight to.

Find out if you are even, you know, bitten by the flying bug.

You may not even like it, but you may love it.

And if you love it, make it happen.

Erin: I'm actually wondering now, 'cause I'm thinking about this, like,

to go to flight school, you don't need prerequisites, you don't need

a college degree or high school.

What kind of education, like education is required to go into it?

Yeah,

Joi: so when I wa and they recently, uh, major airlines recently changed this.

After Covid and a bunch of pilots retiring and then they're hurting for pilots,

but they've dropped, I believe every major has dropped the college degree.

Now, when I was going through, you needed a college degree.

You needed, um, but you didn't need a degree in aviation.

I would encourage a young person to start as early as 16, um,

because you need a, or you have to.

To acquire a private pilot's license, so the earlier the better.

If you start at 16 and by the time you are 25, you're a captain for a um, 25, 28.

I'll say you're captain for a major airline.

You're making a big bucks.

You have awesome seniority.

You can retire a multimillionaire.

You can retire like barely going to work and making so much money if you

start at a young age because seniority is everything in this industry.

Erin: Yeah.

You know, now that you're saying that I had a friend who was a

flight attendant, um, for Emirates and she was saying that to me.

'cause at the time I was like, intrigued by this job.

So I had lots of questions and she was saying it's good to start, like when

you're really young and your body is, is better prepared to like take on the.

The difficult hours because as your career progresses, it gets easier.

Yes.

She was like, you need to put in your time.

And then the schedules become much more doable.

Joi: Yes.

She's 100%

Erin: right.

Okay.

I have two kind of fun questions before we wrap up.

Um, first I wanted to ask if there are any little known facts about flying or about

planes or about being a pilot that people don't know that you wanna share with us?

You

Joi: know, I heard my really good friend, I call him my

brother, say this the other day.

Um, he was given a speech and he is a captain for a major airline

and in his speech he said, planes take off into the wind.

So whatever you think is a setback is actually a setup for your success.

And, uh, that speaks, you know, volumes.

Um, go after it, do it.

Don't let anything stop you.

Erin: Lastly, I think you said you're based in Atlanta,

Joi: correct?

I live in Atlanta, based in Miami, baby Miami.

Erin: Okay, cool.

I been yet, I need to go.

Oh.

Which brings me to my next question.

Can you tell us an insider tip for Miami?

So restaurants, massee tours, like anything that you think a visitor should

absolutely do when they come to your city?

Joi: Yes.

Uh, definitely go to the beach.

That's a given.

Um, I like Wynwood.

That's w y n.

W o o d, uh, Wynwood.

And it's a neighborhood that's slingy great restaurants.

Um, and you know, music culture, uh, they have an Art Basel every year.

That's really cool.

And, um, you cannot go wrong with any restaurants.

If you like Jamaican food, Uh, you know, any, any Caribbean

food, you can find it in Miami.

Um, I don't have a favorite restaurant because I, I'm such a foodie that I

don't want to say I like this restaurant and then my other restaurants feel bad.

That's fair.

Um, but yeah, there's so many incredible.

Restaurants and in Miami and Pompano Beach, um, as well, I

did a lot of training out of, uh, Pompano Beach, Florida.

Just go and take a boat tour and um, and just soak up some rays.

I want to be sponsored or buy a baking the suit company 'cause I'm

always on the, always on the beach.

So if there's any affiliates, uh, that you know are looking for

folks, Uh, but yeah, that's what I'd

Erin: say.

Well, joy, thank you so much.

Before, um, we let you go, can I just get you to share where people can find

you if they wanna learn more about you?

Oh, yes.

Joi: I am the Joyce Schweitzer on Instagram and on TikTok.

I am Joy, j o I ride high.

And my email address because you can email me, I will respond.

Most emails, I still have a couple that I'm, you know, that I'm working on, but

I will be responding to those emails.

But email me at Joy, right high.fit at gmail.com.

Erin: Thank you for listening to the show.

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Alpaca My Bags is written and hosted by me, Erin Hines, and

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All right, pals.

We'll be back in two weeks with another episode that unpacks how we

can travel in a way that is better for people and for the planet.