Tom Gerken 0:00 Hello and welcome to our dads die the podcast by to people whose dads are dead. And for people whose dads are maybe dead, maybe still alive. Maybe you've got a dead mom or family member or friend. Or maybe you've gone to come to grips with death in your own personal life. Maybe you're a ghost. Welcome to our dads died, the podcast the ghosts. This is another very special episode. So last week, we had the fantastic wedding episode. If you haven't listened to that it is an episode recorded on the day of my wedding, which particularly entertaining. So do check that out. We've had some fantastic guests over the past several episodes. And this is the final episode of the first series, if you like that is putting a marker down for all of the episodes that we recorded. Prior to the release of this podcast episodes recorded during the COVID pandemic, which is referenced to in this episode. This is not really a best Star, it's more like the bits you missed kind of episode, we've collated some of the bits that didn't make it into previous episodes, whether that's just because they didn't quite fit, you know, within a theme of an episode or they're funny but didn't quite make the cut. This is where those bits have gone all the best bits that didn't fit. You know, when you're trying to make something that's around 14 minutes long, some things don't quite make it there. So I'm not going to hold you for very long as before it's got some swearing you're going to hear is Shawn Akbar, again, you're going to hear from Victor the mortician. There is some swearing there is also because there's a moment with Victor where we talk about some quite graphic, these really graphic ideas. So that kind of that kind of stuff is gonna cut this some swearing as well. But I think overall, it's quite fun. So enjoy, and look at the end.

Rich 2:12 And so what happens to all the stuff that you remove from the purchase and the blood,

Victor Sweeney 2:18 yeah. So that Yeah, so like, let's say we have somebody, somebody on the embalming table. And we're proceeding with embalming. So we're going down the arteries pushing the blood through the circulatory system and out through the vein. And as you're doing that, they start like stomach purging. And this kind of coffee ground round stuff is just kind of streaming out of their mouth. You know, in the, during the process, you just kind of let it happen. You're like, alright, just like let it come out. And then it's out. But let's say you have someone in the casket and they're dressed and they've got their tie on, and they start doing it, then then you run into panic mode, usually. And you're just like, you're like taking wads of cotton and like putting it down the nasal cavities to try to like soak that up. Or if you're still at the funeral home, we have a what's called a hydro aspirator. So it's like a vacuum pump that's hooked up to your like running water. So water runs, creates a vacuum. And if that's the case, then we'll just aspirate, like, down the nose and in the mouth trying to like suck out as much of that as you can. Usually, you know, if you do a good job in bombing, you're usually removing most of those trouble areas. Right? Before you get to that point,

Tom Gerken 3:35 I think to a few funerals and I've never seen. Yeah, you know, although like the closed casket, I suppose. I wouldn't know. Couldn't be going up in there.

Victor Sweeney 3:44 Yeah. So you guys, you guys don't do open casket where you are?

Tom Gerken 3:47 No, I don't think so. It's uncommon, very, very uncommon.

Rich 3:50 unless something's gone terribly wrong. Sure. Then

Tom Gerken 3:55 people do visit, like, like when my dad died. My aunt and uncle went to see him after he died. So they went see the body kind of thing. Yeah. So they still you can still do that. You can still see them after they're dead. But But yeah, it's so open to the public. Yeah, it's I mean, yeah, that is like, yeah, so so uncommon in this country is crazy. Yeah. We're a nation of prudish people. You know,

Victor Sweeney 4:19 I suppose. Yeah. I suppose you are. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Embrace it, you know? Yeah.

Rich 4:25 But it's almost like it's a lot more common in the States, is it?

Victor Sweeney 4:29 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, yeah, we're just you know, we're a sort of out there Americans you know, like, we are we are hey, look dead body. You know, some Yeah, I don't know.

Tom Gerken 4:40 Plus, it's a lot of work to involve my guests. You sort of want to show off that, don't you? Absolutely. I did.

Victor Sweeney 4:47 Yeah, I worked with like a 90 year old Norwegian man, my first real job. And his his motto as well. Victory. You can't have a good funeral with a bad body.

Eshaan 4:58 That was not Oh,

Victor Sweeney 5:01 which is somewhat true, I guess, you know, like, this is kind of, I don't want to say it's like it's our product, but like, certainly, like my skill set has a place and like, if you if you suck at what you do, like, what's the point?

Tom Gerken 5:15 You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is the thing about your jumping important that you know, you've got no choice. You've got to be good at it. You know? It's absolutely, yes. Yeah, it's not a try again, to have a situation really, is it?

Rich 5:31 Has it ever gone wrong? And you've mess up first time around?

Victor Sweeney 5:36 Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can't like think of a good example. But like, you'll get situations where, so you're injecting fluid, right with your embalming machine. And you're pumping fluids in at a high pressure, typically to bust up blood clots and push them out. And every once in a while, a person will throw this clot. And all of a sudden, like, the left eye will start swelling up and you're like, Oh, hold on, like, you know, like, panic mode. You know, shut everything down. Forget what the heck's going on. And normally, like, if you're smart, you catch that early. And then you just end up like opening more arteries and veins and doing things like step by step rather than trying to like, involve the whole body in one shot. Right. It's yeah, it's a I don't know. It's

Tom Gerken 6:22 a point of pride. Politicians being able to just one and done it. Yeah. It went bang a cup of tea came back sorted. Yeah, yeah.

Victor Sweeney 6:31 Yeah. Yeah. The other one and done is it's nice. It doesn't always happen. The thing is, like, if you talk to any embalmer, like the one you're talking to is going to be the best and Ballmer around. Like that's how it works. Like, clearly I'm the best one. So, you know, people pride themselves on Oh, yeah, I was in and out in like an hour. But like, if their hands and legs start breaking down, then what? You know, like, if you're not paying attention to what you're doing, like, it's worth putting in the extra, whatever, half hour to make sure everything is right. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not big on that. I just, I mean, so. So here, well, here, this is fun, you guys. So my, my job when I was in mortuary school, was I worked in the universities, whole body donation lab, and the cadaver lab. Okay, right. Figured, I figured like, Well, I'm gonna spend the rest of my life as a funeral director, I may as well do something different. Now. Yeah, no.

Tom Gerken 7:33 game itself would have been fairly different.

Victor Sweeney 7:36 would have been smarter, Your Honour, something screwed up. So I worked in this in this body of donation land. And that was kind of interesting. Because there you're you're preparing bodies for anatomical study for like doctors from medical school, right. So that was kind of a whole different thing. But you know, you're not preparing someone to last for two weeks until the funeral, you're preparing someone to last for 18 months, you know, so you're having to be extremely thorough, and you're opening all sorts of arteries and veins to make sure that your distribution of fluid is is, you know, as good as possible. So that that was kind of nice, because you learn how to do that. And then when you're in my situation where you're at, you know, a small town in Ballmer. If you have a problem, you're like, Oh, well, I've done this on a huge scale. Like, you're not really afraid to jump in and do things right. Kind of cool.

Tom Gerken 8:34 Funerals where there's you must presumably, you'll get funerals where there's no body at all right? Yeah. Do you prefer the ones? Where there's no body? Easy beans job done? Or do you prefer the ones where you've got quite a lot of work to do?

Victor Sweeney 8:51 Um, good question. I think sometimes the ones where, like, let's say you have just a simple cremation and an urn. Sometimes those are actually more work on my end than the actual, like traditional, you know, Polish Catholic funeral, let's say, because, like, with a with a Polish Catholic funeral, or a, you know, like an old style, you know, Norwegian Lutheran funeral, like, this is the way it's done, and you just execute every step. And every one is, in essence, the same. Whereas if you have something where it's like, maybe cremation first and the urn, and it's going to take place in two months, then it's more challenging because the people that are planning the thing, you might have more time to just let the wheel spin. Where are like I say, you know, you let the wheel spin and then they follow. You know, things get crazy. You're like, you know, I don't know. It's like, all every little detail gets gone over six times, via email, phone call and text message. So you're trying to like, keep everything together and make sure you've got every little detail right. Whereas sometimes with the more traditional funeral like Well, you've done it 1000 times, you know how it works. If something comes up, like, pretty quick on your feet, you can figure it out. But with these maybe delayed funerals where they have, you know, all these different very personal very particular requests, like it's sometimes it's hard to keep them all straight. Not gonna lie. Um, COVID we had a lot of that, because you had people dying, but then nobody could gather. Yeah. So, like earlier? Well, let's say the spring before things kind of got better. We had like, 30 funerals to do this summer, with, you know, backed up from last, you know, March or last fall. As a man, I got six months notice, I gotta go over and make sure I have, right. You know, like, it's

Tom Gerken 10:51 quite an interesting Converse relationship, then really, that we've got, because I think my dad, I know, my dad never wanted to have kids in the first place. So for the duration, but I was a kid, our relationship was okay. Then he sort of just treated me like his mates, which is fine. And the relationship I was happy with, ultimately. But what that meant was, by the time I was 18, we gave up together. And and yeah, we have a trick to it. And that that became a real, you know, kind of way that we actually had a relationship. So yeah, we went to the bubble. A lot. You know, I spent a lot of times in in pubs my dad, so you know, but then, you know, he never taught me how to ride a bike was your dad, I might have taught you how to ride a bike. So he did, indeed. So that's the difference. You see, you've got you've got the first phase of your life, but I got the second phase. Yeah, we combined that. You have the perfect life. Perfect dad.

Rich 11:52 Yeah. All right. That's interesting. So

Tom Gerken 11:55 if we combined our dads, yeah. But it creates one dad who's got all both those good qualities. But it also creates another dad doesn't take to the pub and doesn't teach you how to ride a bike.

Rich 12:12 Right? Right.

Tom Gerken 12:16 Which, which you might get perfect. You might get

Rich 12:23 well, I mean, currently, I've got no doubt at all. So even true, even terrible. Dad is better than no doubt or

Tom Gerken 12:29 is it though? I mean, what's terrible, dad? I mean, what's he doing? Yeah,

Rich 12:33 I think dad's Great. Dad is maybe better than living awful dad who keeps coming around asking you for money.

Tom Gerken 12:40 Okay. Yeah. Okay. It's all

Rich 12:44 for daddy's like, no matter how hard you try, he always comes around. And he's always dressed so strangely. And like not like eccentric ly. Just like he's wearing hot pants. And

Tom Gerken 12:57 like a Panama hat on, and it's like, where's those anymore? And a duffle

Rich 13:02 coat. But he's like, tied it around his waist. He's topless. He's got his nipple pierced and you're like, some embarrassing coming to your work.

Tom Gerken 13:12 Oh, no.

Rich 13:15 They all love. Everyone at work really likes it. So you seem like a dick because, like annoyed at your dad. He's a bad dad. Tom, this guy.

Tom Gerken 13:24 But everyone at work thinks he's a great lad. Because they only see the good times. Yeah, but then when he's at the bottom of the bottle.

Rich 13:32 I meet with you at the pub. And you've got perfect dad, and perfect has driven you there and said, hey, I'll I'll come pick you up.

Tom Gerken 13:40 Your dad he gets there and he's easy. He's finishing off people's drinks. Are you gonna finish that are you know, and he's doing that?

Rich 13:48 He's wearing a nappy and clown makeup and you're like, why are you like this?

Tom Gerken 13:55 Oh, wish he wasn't eccentric even did it but I say exclusively and nappy and clown makeup. Yeah, yeah, you've turned it round. Yeah, he's eccentric,

Rich 14:07 but not in the kind of, like always a bit of an eccentric just like he he's got issues. Yeah. Yeah, no, I don't I say Right. Yeah. So here's my question. When we're talking about goodbyes. And this is something that's come up briefly before is the film onward, which I've never seen, and which I believe your girlfriend Amanda started you watching play that played it to me on my birthday. Yes. Funny birthday. Yeah. Only for you to go. Which

Tom Gerken 14:41 I will add, as has been said previously on the podcast would have been basically the one year anniversary of my dad's death. Yeah.

Rich 14:50 So very quickly, describe what the film onward is about. It's about Arabic

Tom Gerken 14:56 to get to kids who their dad is dead. They'd probably brothers, and they basically find his magic book or something like that. And then magic him back to life. Maybe for a day isn't all they're trying to. They get to, I think they get to bring him back for a day. Now you know about this film? Well, I mean, we turned it off 10 minutes, and I've only seen the trailer. I explained what the film was going to be about from the opening 10 minutes, and I said, you have to stop watching this, because it's so upset. Yeah. Well in Mackay days and you don't want to be crying while eating McFlurry

Rich 15:35 something very, very tragic Kabbalah image isn't the soggy McDonald's chips. They're salty enough. You don't need to cry on. But so here's my question. You find your dad's magic book or whatever it is, here it is. You can bring him back for 24 hours. What do you do?

Tom Gerken 15:56 I suppose. Let's change this slightly. And say he's coming back for 24 hours. Someone else has done it. So it's happening because I don't want the whole Oh, I wouldn't do it. For okay, I don't want it to want morals. Yeah, what's about practicalities?

Rich 16:16 Right? You've got to plan the perfect day with your dad. Bear in mind, you've only got 24 hours. And then you will definitely never say

Tom Gerken 16:24 my dad is the kind of guy who was the kind of guy I should say, who would go on an all inclusive holiday. Wait sit on a beach. He was not the kind of guy who would let's go to Rome and walk around. That's my mum. That would never my dad. He wasn't that kind of guy. Right? Go to a museum. Have a look. Okay. 10 minutes. See you later. took me to an aquarium is a kid for a bit fine. But he's not. Let's spend a day in an aquarium, not that guy. Right. So if you think about it from what he would prefer, if he came back today,

Rich 17:01 because the question is, if you came back would you take into an aquarium? So seems to be the question.

Speaker 1 17:08 Ah, oh, well, it's relevant because we did take a stir chrome a few times the kids so it's quite a nice thing. Yeah. aquarium or zoo is that, you know, we would in reality, reality, we probably go to Marwell zoo, where we would go every Easter, and actually every good Friday. So

Tom Gerken 17:27 it's quite a rather than

Rich 17:29 the day. So they don't know that's the day when he died, isn't it? Then he came back on Sunday.

Tom Gerken 17:34 Would it be nice to Sunday, still one of the top 10 holidays? You'd have to say yeah. We do that for a bit. And then you know what? We'd make the tuna pasture in the morning. I'm a vegan now, but I'd not be vegan for the day. So we could have that we'd have a tune path mix in personal learning, bring it with us all that stuff. Get home and then just watch football and sit and watch telly because because that's the type of thing he would like we'd have a few drinks here. That's that would have been his ideal circumstance. You know? He wouldn't want to be like, oh, let's do a million things. Let's go kite surfing. You wouldn't get kicked out? Yeah, unless my plan was to torture him. Why did you leave me busted? We got fucking bungee jumping you. Yeah, not not ideal.

Rich 18:28 And are you? Are you talking about deep? Are you having those deep conversations? Or are you just sitting in a football chain

Speaker 1 18:36 when we're a few beers deep? We're watching the telly at the end there we might we might veer into some deeper topics. Deep or an emotional level. I don't think we would start talking about Israel. But sorry, I

Tom Gerken 18:56 laughed quietly. But I laughed a lot. Just you were just thinking I don't want to laugh in a way that makes it seem like I have an opinion on the ISRAEL PALESTINE conflict.

Rich 19:04 Oh no. I mean, I definitely have to avoid it. Just well aware that my opinion may be completely wrong because I know almost nothing wait.

Speaker 1 19:14 No, I mean yeah, we Yeah, it will just be like that. I really nice fond memory I have is when we was just asked to watch metalli the next day we were gonna go and watch Bournemouth play. And it was super proud of me because I just got I was it was a bomb of uni and I just got the part time job in the gold sand stadium doing student radio. Yeah, community radio. There. We go called Jordan Clarke legend.

Tom Gerken 19:38 Pavement Strongbow, what an icon. That would have approved superadmin and we stand up at night. And then we talked with Teddy and he watched an episode of South Park with me. Right just to give it a go. And we're drinking Coronas watching South Park and eating ice slowly Nice. And I think I would do my best to try and you know, recreate similar vibe because a lovely

Rich 20:07 member, just do that again. And we just do that again. Yeah. Nice.

Tom Gerken 20:10 What about yourself? You've got a day with your dad.

Rich 20:15 Yes, you receive, you've kind of gone from a what would he want perspective? Whereas I think the thing is that my dad has been dead longer. He's been dead for seven, nearly seven years. And a lot of my life has changed since then. So I think I would want to spend quite a lot the time being like, this is me now.

Tom Gerken 20:39 Oh, God, you introduce them to you girlfriend. Yeah, cool. Exactly.

Rich 20:42 I've had wanting to meet Yes. And be like, This is my girlfriend. She's great. And I love her. And I'd want her to meet him. And then I'd want him to see me do stand up because I didn't do stand up when he died. I'd never expressed an interest in it. And it is a thing that I think he would be very impressed by. Because he always find it impressive that I wrote stuff. Because because he was he was a doctor and he didn't. He was like, I don't understand how you can come up with things. And if you read the stuff that he was reading, by then that I'd written fucking dogshit. And he was impressed by that. So I'd like him to come to a gig and just see, like what I can do now if he thought that was good. Yeah, I mean, there's every Imagine if I bumped, match, and if I bought for 191 I salute stinker boy. And I do all my tear my material about him being dead. That'd be a be a laugh. Weird material.

Tom Gerken 21:47 Does Hang on a second. So does the person who's dead? No, but they're just back for one day?

Rich 21:55 Yeah, I think so that I think that's in the agreement.

Tom Gerken 21:59 In my perspective, it was just as though they just woke up. And everything was normal. They didn't remember any of the dying bit. And they just woke up. And it was a normal day. Oh, and I was like, we're gonna go to the zoo. And he'd be like, brilliant. And then it was like, we just watched you know, and then he just goes to sleep. And it's all like that. That's what

Rich 22:17 this is. In my head. This is a big, you'd have to do a spell. Remember from the magic book to bring it back? It's

Tom Gerken 22:23 a spell rich, it's magic can be whatever you want.

Rich 22:27 Well, you can you can do it that way. If you want in my head. This is because I'd want because otherwise, what an intense day would be having of me, like really emoting at him and needing to say all this stuff, and he'd be like, Why are you being weird? And he may be worried about like, I've got work tomorrow and stuff in my head is coming back for 24 hours.

Tom Gerken 22:46 That's, that's better if he's worrying about like at work tomorrow, because that's real.

Rich 22:51 No, no, I don't want I don't want him. I want him back for 24 hours and only spending time with me. And then I want to go to the pub with him. Because as I said, never really got the chance to go to the pub with him. And I'd like to go to a pub that would allow a lock in and just get drunk with my dad. Because I don't think I ever really got drunk with my dad.

Tom Gerken 23:15 You've never got drunk with your dad.

Rich 23:17 Much of it turned out that really mean drunk? Again.

Tom Gerken 23:23 Having that

Rich 23:26 we get drunk and he's just horrible.

Speaker 1 23:28 It's sort of it. You know? It's it's not hard for somebody new my dad to see how he could get to this will mean sometimes. We've all the best one in the world. If somebody met my dad would not find that hard to believe. I Met Your Dad and I just can't see how it's possible. No.

Tom Gerken 23:47 I think it'd be always funny if he tried to be stern.

Oh, man, heavy. It's very interesting for this. You know, my uncle died last week, these funerals on Friday yet? Well, you know, as I said, I no longer feel any sadness after my dad died. So the funerals on Friday and I'm not able to go it's in Liverpool. I'm in London. Geographically for the UK. That's quite far. I appreciate

Victor Sweeney 24:19 how how long would you have to travel?

Tom Gerken 24:22 It would be about four hours away. Okay.

Victor Sweeney 24:25 Yeah. Yeah. See, like, we look at that, and we're like, oh, that's not so bad.

Tom Gerken 24:30 That's how far you'd go to get to the Walmarts I guess. But in England, it's far and, and so when you know, I'm not gonna be able to make it. And we're going to watch it. The live stream. We're going to watch the live stream. I was just wondering what that's been a bit like for yourselves with the live streaming. That funeral has been

Victor Sweeney 24:51 that's been different. You know, usually, you know, I'm not saying you're performing necessarily in my job, but there's something of that right things have to be, you know, sharp and ceremonial and onpoint. And doing that for like a crowded church is one thing. But it definitely takes on a different dimension. You're like, oh, this is recorded, and it's just going to be available in perpetuity. Like you better you better get it right. Yeah. So that's yeah, I done pretty well, this year. Actually, when I was in school, I worked at a funeral home in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I would this is like my worst moment, you guys, I'm just going to share it with you. Actually, I'll share my worst professional moment. And I can share my worst personal moment when my my worst professional moment, was we had a funeral for a Vietnamese Catholic priest who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. Wow. Right. Like he was just a stud. And so the bishop is there. There's like 13 priests, the church is full masses of Vietnamese, and in the Vietnamese culture, typically, the family of a person so like your direct descendants, so your children and grandchildren, they wear this white bandana around their head, so to signify mourning, and to signify that like, they are the ones that are mourning the most. In this case, because he's a he obviously doesn't have children. But his children is the whole parish. So the whole church is full of the packed with like 500 Vietnamese Catholics bandanas, you get the priests, the bishop, you know, the American Legion is there and like the Vietnamese contingent is there. And it's a big thing. And so I help, you know, I help roll out the casket. And I'm just like, kind of wigging out. And we get the casket loaded up. And then I go back into the church to grab this big vase of roses. Or no, sorry, it was the casket spray. So the casket spray full of roses, right, that sits on top of the casket. I'm carrying it out. And it's December, and I slip on the ice. The flowers, facedown in the snowbank. And the thing that is makes us the worst is not only that it happened that it happened in front of the bishop and everybody else. But it was being recorded by like 50 people. Like, like, just to get an idea all the way up to the cemetery, there was a guy hanging out of his window, recording the hearse go into the cemetery, right? It was like everybody saw this, it's on full display. I'm just standing there like a moron. Like picking flowers out of the snow,

Tom Gerken 27:27 if it helps at all. If that happened in this country, there is no question everyone would applaud. Like they would genuinely love it.

Rich 27:38 Saying the same noisy and making a bar when someone drops a stack of pie.

Tom Gerken 27:45 Yeah, that was fun. I am assuming the bishops one. Yeah.

Rich 27:59 You were brought up Muslim? Do you still do believe in an afterlife? Do your family believe in an afterlife?

Eshaan 28:06 This is such a good question. Something I've been grappling with for a bit. I don't know is the answer. Because and I've talked about it before, which is that? Maybe because I was raised a Muslim, I find it quite difficult to accept the idea that my mum popped her clogs. That's quite nice one isn't it popped up. So John? Yeah, sorry. Your mom pop to clogs? Yes. That woman passed away. And that's it. Like that seems a bit final when there's so much about the world we don't understand. And when I go to the graveyard to visit, my mom's grave visit of the grave fucking knows I'm there. When I go. To pay my respects to my mom. I do say prayers in Arabic. And somewhere in me, I'm like, oh, perhaps it is connected with my mom in some way. So I guess I don't know how you guys feel. But I do want to think that there is some sort of connection. But I don't think she's kind of flouncing, about up in heaven, or whatever it is. I don't think

Rich 29:02 Yeah, I think I think I'm sort of on the same page in that. I mean, I was raised sort of loosely, Christian in that way that only Christians are whether like you, Christian, or you don't have to ever go to church or think about God. But yeah, I now would say I'm an atheist, and I don't bloody Protestant. Sorry, exactly. But I don't believe in an afterlife, but I can't quite make the connection in my head after my dad died, that he's gone, that I'll never see him again. Even now, that doesn't seem to make sense. So there's a part of me that still obviously hopes and sort of on some level believes that there must be something else. But I mean, what it is, I have no idea. But yeah, it's hard. It's

Tom Gerken 29:46 a dissonance, isn't it? Yeah. You you accept that they're dead and that's fine. And we've got that, but you're unable to really wrap your head around the concept that you'll never again see this person? No. but you expect you're going to see them at any point. But you're you haven't accepted the idea that they're gone forever if you like. I don't think that's something you ever have to accept. Because even if you don't believe in the afterlife, you probably still do believe that there's a nonzero chance that there's something, right. Because it'd be ridiculous to say otherwise. No. Yeah,

Eshaan 30:23 yeah. Have you guys seen your dad's in your dreams in the snow passed away? Oh, my God.

Rich 30:29 We have we've actually recorded a whole episode discussing our dreams or our dads. Right? Yeah. If you have you? Well, this is the thing. So that apparently we've discovered there are two types of dreams. One of which is a visitation dream, where a dead relative will come to visit you. And then the other one was called I think. And we had a write off about this, it was called a release dream. And obviously, you would imagine that will be something quite different and shouldn't involve a visit from a dead relative. But yeah, absolutely. But that's one way you're apparently letting go. Spiritually,

Eshaan 31:08 I think. Well, I think there's a third one because I've definitely had the visitation dream. I've had a couple of those. But there's also one where I've observed my mum doing really mundane things. And that kind of pisses me off a bit like she'll be just sat in the back of a car not doing very much. And I'm right, well, if we're in the afterlife, why are you bothered about the fact that you've left me fuck sake, like, you're just or there was one where I saw her in a dream and she she was just crossing the road. She pressed the button waiting for the Green Man and then cross the road. And that was it. And it was so mundane. I woke up angry at the fact that she wasn't doing more exciting things in the fucking afterlife.

Rich 31:49 So in these dreams, too, are you aware in the dream that she's dead? Because whenever I dream about my dad, he's, he's alive. And I'm alive. And I don't think oh, that's my dad. And then I wake up and I'm like, oh, yeah,

Eshaan 32:00 yeah, no, no, they're alive. My mom's been alive in my dreams.

Rich 32:04 Yeah, exactly. When you wake up, you realise? Yeah. Yeah. What would you rather she was doing in the streams? How exciting. Do you want it to be?

Eshaan 32:13 Would you rather your mum was on once duck sized horse or? I don't know. I feel like I can say that the Muslim and this is what you know, death and everything surrounding death and funerals, particularly for me. And I think for a lot of people, they cannot I don't think they can be extricated from the religious influence of what, how they, how they're viewed and understood. So, for me, I've been sold this idea that in the afterlife, if my mom has been good, she is in this beautiful place, just getting whatever she wants, having a great time seeing all her loved ones that have gone before her. So I would expect her to kind of be there just like wearing the best clothes. And when she was crossing the road, she looked terrible. Just hanging out with the aunts and cousins that are no longer around. They they seem to call her in heaven for some inexplicable reason. She's always out and about by herself. So that's what I want to see happen. So I don't really know what's going on. I need to have a word. So

Rich 33:17 it means washers, she's gone to this better place, as they say you don't imagine she's going to still need to sit in the back of a car or cross a road

Eshaan 33:26 better place cannot have a tarmac to pelican crossing. It just can't. Absolutely. Can you can you imagine turning up to heaven? And you've got a cross? You got a? I mean, no.

Tom Gerken 33:43 I do would at least be a separate crossing.

Eshaan 33:47 The Crossing? Yeah.

Rich 33:53 Yeah, but maybe we can also learn a little bit to not give ourselves quite such a hard time.

Tom Gerken 34:02 Well,

Rich 34:03 I think it I think it's different for me, I think I'm further down the line. And I've maybe turned that corner of not necessarily having to beat myself up constantly. And reaching some form of peace with the grief that's still there. And not, not all the time. You know, there are times where I feel I remember something and I feel intensely guilty. And you know, not saying goodbye to my dad is something that does weigh on my mind and will I think for a long, long time. Whereas for you while I've had time to make peace with that you you're a year and a half in and yeah. There's still so many emotions that it's hard. It's very easy to put them all under the umbrella of guilt. It's a very easy emotion to fail, because it's one we're all very well primed for. But I guess if there are people Were listening who were feeling very guilty about what they said what they didn't say, the goodbye they didn't do. If they weren't there if they were there, and they found it hard. That's fine. That is the way it will be.

Tom Gerken 35:16 Yeah, I'm starting to warm to this idea that, yeah, that it's gonna feel like that for a while. It does. That's how it feels. And it's gonna keep feeling like that for a long time. And your best bet is to lean into it. And stop stop trying to avoid it and just accept it. That's gonna happen, you're gonna feel bad for ages. Yeah, you know, that's, that might be healthier to just accept, it's going to be shipped for forever.

Rich 35:43 You have to think

Tom Gerken 35:45 you aren't going to die.

Rich 35:49 Maybe a middle ground between those two

Tom Gerken 35:52 streams, aren't they? But then that also represents a five year gap and parental death.

Rich 35:57 Yeah, yeah. I think maybe it will feel bad for a long time. And it has to feel bad for a long time. But it's better that it feels bad for a long time than it doesn't feel bad. Intense intensely, it just feels a bit sad forever. Because you'll never fully deal with it.

Tom Gerken 36:19 If you can decode what that meant. Then get then enjoy that whatever the meaning.

Rich 36:28 There was, there's some wisdom buried very, very deep at the bottom.

Tom Gerken 36:32 There are a lot of commerce. That's what I felt like.

Rich 36:34 They're mostly commerce.

Tom Gerken 36:36 If you wrote it out, you'd be like, there's a lot of clauses.

Rich 36:45 It's gonna be mainly punctuation from here on out the phrase. Yeah. Fair enough.

Tom Gerken 36:57 Yes, maybe we can all learn to be go a little bit easier on ourselves. When we're dealing with grief and loss. Maybe we can. Maybe we can just have a laugh at all the things that are stupid about it, which is this podcast really, isn't it? And if you've been enjoying it raw, this was a bit of a weird one, almost like a clip show except clips you've never heard before. Strange, best of the rest, I guess. But coming from next week, we'll be back with brand new content. Well, this was new content to you, I suppose just old content to us. Although it took me so long to put these clips together, I wouldn't be faster just recording new episodes. I'm not quite sure why I decided to announce that we were going to brand new episode. Coming up next week. We've got new, really funny, really great guests lined up, who spoke to already a couple of them. And they're they're absolutely brilliant. Yeah, it's going to be amazing. It's just going to be amazing. What I will say to you, dear listeners, if you could do two things to me, that'd be absolutely fantastic. The first thing is, if you've listened this far, I would absolutely love it. If you could tell a friend about this podcast, the numbers we've had been a bit silly. Really, really, really amazing. Thank you so much. For listening, it means so much. And the mouthless we've had is, is really meaningful to me. And it really helps a lot with the bad feelings that sometimes come from from talking about grief as openly as this, to know that it has aided people. So that's amazing. And you know, if you think it might, if you know anybody who you think might get something out of this, do please share it with them, share the podcast, pass the podcast, even if it's somebody who just finds it funny, listening to two middle class guys having a banter. Please do share the podcast. And the other thing is if you are up in Scotland, you have still got a couple of days including today to watch. Rich's Stand Up Show at the fringe ends on Saturday, the 19th of August. So if you're listening to this on Friday, but it's just tomorrow, you're listening on a Saturday offence today. You're listening on Sunday or any future as you're listening in the future. Don't worry, although if you're listening really far in the future, you know, maybe he's got another show on right. But if you're listening right now, you have very limited opportunity to see which is show. I went to see it on Friday last week, and I had an absolutely brilliant time. I thought it was so funny. You know, he's just got a way of telling his story which is really engaging and absolutely entertaining. Tell some very, very silly, sexy tales, which I also got to watch. It's a show about his girlfriend and I got to watch it sat beside his girlfriend, which is a very unique experience I come from and she'll have that but you'll have a good time. Am I do promise you that so please do go. Richard Spaulding look who loves me. starts at six o'clock at Hootenanny is at the apex until next week, where you'll see me rich to ever once again. I just need to say that Death comes for a soul. But as we all know, it comes to you first. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai