Tom Gerken 0:00 Hello, welcome to our dad's died the podcast that people who've lost someone, it's called our dads died because our dads died. But if someone you know or love has gone, it's alright, listen to us laugh about it and sort of laugh at our own suffering. And maybe you'll love it too. And we'll have a good time. This week's episode is all about dreams. When you dream about someone after they've gone. What does that mean? Are they trying to get in touch with you somehow from the other side? Or is it all hullabaloo this week? Me and rich get into it. And I really, really love this episode. It makes me laugh so much when I really listen to it. I can't wait for you to listen to it, too. Before we get into the episode, though, I just want to jump on a few of these amazing, wonderful touching heartfelt comments. We've had people leaving us five star reviews on Apple podcasts and saying something lovely, Rich,

Rich 0:56 I would like to say very quickly that I am here as well. Didn't really contribute anything to that bit. But I was here for a

Tom Gerken 1:07 while I was introducing you,

Rich 1:09 Oh, right. Okay. I just felt like it was quite a long time. I didn't I thought No, you'd forgotten I was here as well.

Tom Gerken 1:14 I've said rich. And then you started talking? Yeah. As far as I'm concerned. It was the perfect introduction. As we rehearsed, well, you're here now, just would you like review?

Rich 1:25 I'd love a review. Great, because I've got one. This is a lovely review from UK mad an iPhone user high assume. And it's titled sensitive and funny. Which are, there are nicknames for each other.

Tom Gerken 1:42 Which one's sensitive or which one's funny? Well, that's

Rich 1:45 for the listener to the side for listening. sighs Yeah. So you came out has said, death happens in all our lives, which is very much one of the catchphrases. It will come to you. Death happens in all our lives. And in some ways, it's very simple, but we make death and the processes around it very complex as sorting out the aftermath for those left behind as a whole issue by itself, a great podcast that brings wit and humour to a subject that we shy away from so often. From my personal experience. If you don't laugh at some of the absurdities, you really do cry. Well done, both of you very enjoyable. And I'm sure we'll help others going through this journey. Thank you very much. You came at

Tom Gerken 2:23 it. Oh, don't laugh, you will cry. That's again, another

Rich 2:27 one of our catchphrases. Yeah. So hopefully, hopefully, we can help you out with a bit of the laughing but also if you cry, that's fine. Because, you know, crying is a good way of dealing with grief. Don't hold it in is what I'm saying.

Tom Gerken 2:40 No, in my experience, I would say if you can do any emotions, yeah, yeah, I've sort of broadly become an emotion. This Huskers as as bat is genuinely is one of my catchphrases. And it's steeped in reality. We've never, never have you hear we've had we've had. We've actually had a bunch of reviews in this week. And we're only really a couple of them out. Alicia Lou, every nickname was taken good work. Five stars on Apple podcasts are really original and refreshing podcasts. So well done. Tom and rich are hilarious and make a great duo can't wait for the next season. Thank you.

Rich 3:19 Thank you. And if you can't wait for the next season? Well, no, you will have to wait for the next season. But we're recording the next season as we speak. And we do need some contribution from you guys, if possible. But we'll give you more information on that at the end of this podcast.

Tom Gerken 3:37 Yep, we really need you to get in touch particularly on the topic of this episode. We'll talk to you about that at the end, which

Rich 3:44 we will But before all that here is us discussing the topic of dreams. You enjoy. See you in a bit

Tom Gerken 4:03 one thing that I was in no way prepared for when my dad died. Was that something like 33 to 50% of my dreams, post death have featured my dad's dad in some capacity.

Rich 4:20 Yeah. And I think that's quite a common thing. I feel like I could have warned you about that. I didn't. I didn't I could have I chose not to you discover that for yourself. I had the had the same and it continues because it's been an extra six years for me and I still get them from time to time. They're different. But what like can you remember the first one that you had?

Tom Gerken 4:48 Yes, I think the first dream I had just

Rich 4:53 first dream about your dad after he died. Yeah,

Speaker 1 4:56 okay. Yeah, I mean, I can't remember the first one. Because I think the first few became quite muddled in that initial period I was a bit of a what you might call a mess. Yeah, yeah. So without getting too deep into the specifics,

Tom Gerken 5:14 what I can more easily describe as is, if the first dream was we were all at the zoo. One of the most recent Dreams was we were at the zoo without him. But he was working in the coffee shop for about five seconds in the dream to service McCarthy's, and then he left.

Rich 5:40 Where you we you're aware that this is this is your dad's giving us the coffee's Absolutely. And ever the way it happens in dreams. That wasn't. You weren't like, what's he doing? He's dead and he's not a barista. You were just like, Yep. Thanks, dad. We're off to see the

Tom Gerken 5:56 correct order of what you'd be surprised by as well, to be fair, him being alive. Number one, shocker. Number two is the biggest surprise, not the rest of OC.

Rich 6:07 Yeah, yeah. It would be an odd reaction to go. Hang on. Todd, you don't work at Starbucks on July Eve also?

Tom Gerken 6:16 Yeah, it's been like that. It's been like that every. As dreams have gone on, they've gone. They've all taken a step closer towards absurdity. Or just being removed slightly from the circumstance. I'm half expecting that zoo dream when we get there. We'll be he'll be one of the animals.

Rich 6:36 Or he'll be all of the animals is a horrible

Tom Gerken 6:38 John Malkovich.

Rich 6:41 They'll all have their their animal bodies, put your dad's head on top of each one. Yeah, that is that's what I'm picturing who I don't like it. It's also alarming considering I said at the start, you know, this continues. i It's been seven years. Well, six and a half years for me and I still have dreamed about my dad. It's been a year and a bit for you. And if if it's gonna carry on escalating at this rate. God knows where you're gonna end up.

Tom Gerken 7:12 You've got to think that sooner eventually at the very least, he'll be the zoo. Yeah. And to him, which is a horrible mission. Yeah. One of the things that I didn't expect to happen when dad died was all my half of my dreams would involve my dad, right? And part of the purpose of this podcast is to talk about this kind of thing. So Rich. Dad died six years ago. You've presumably had some dreams featuring him since then. Yeah, breaking down for me. Well,

Rich 7:47 well, the thing that surprised me is that because I've, I've known I love dreams, but you know how people always say, you know, a relationship is dead when you're explaining your dreams to each other or something.

Tom Gerken 8:01 Oh, God, who says that?

Rich 8:04 That's that's a thing I've heard people say is like, Oh, if you wake up and your your partner starts telling you your dream,

Tom Gerken 8:08 my partner tells me about her dreams all the time.

Rich 8:12 Yeah, same and I love it. It's the thing I'm most excited about in the morning is telling my girlfriend what I dreamt about on her telling me what she dropped out. Because dreams are mental. And I love that.

Tom Gerken 8:23 I've derailed you too far. But I've got a few, a few notes. First of all thing, I'm concerned what it says about my relationships. I hate dreams. And the second one is when you say the thing you're most excited for the morning. There's not a lot of time to be excited, having just woken up. Yeah.

Rich 8:44 Yeah, but in order of things I'm excited about they go hearing her dreams. Breakfast. Yeah, of course. Morning poo. The Big Three big three. We all love them. And I've always said I will not poo until she's told me her dreams. Is my daily automate. It's

Tom Gerken 9:02 never been conjoined. The Twain never shall meet or has there been a

Rich 9:08 mess. She's dictating a dream to me through the door or

Unknown Speaker 9:12 suggesting who dream?

Rich 9:15 Oh, I see. I don't think she's ever dreamt that I've been doing but I if she has she hasn't explained it to me which breaks the claws of our contracts and things she's in for some horrible punishment. Poopoo White's not a boy. Anything anything darker than that that was that is already considerably darker than I intended. Hasn't it? Hasn't it just was troublesome. I love drinks and I love how we're dreamed up. I've never believed in the idea that, you know, they're they have any meaning or you can analyse them. I think they're just weird things that happen in your head. But then when my dad died, all of my dreams suddenly the came the sort of quite elegant metaphors for loss. And it was. So the first one that I remember having was me and my, I'm always a teenager, whenever I dream about my dad, I'm like 1314 Even now. And in this dream we were in, we were in the leisure centre, in Kidderminster where I grew up. And we were all going through the little sort of turnstile thing that they have. And then we went through and they wouldn't let my dad go through the turnstile. And, and so we were all gathered on the other side, about to go swimming, and dad couldn't get through, and then we all started crying, and then they led him away down this corridor. And I knew then that I wasn't gonna see him again. And it was, but it was all quite sort of established. And the lady behind the desk was very strict about the fact that he couldn't come through, and he couldn't join us in a swimming pool. And then people just came and sort of shepherded him away. And that was a couple of days after he died. And then the next night, I had another one where we were in a car park. I don't know if it was a leisure centre, car park, but we were in a car park. And we were all saying goodbye to him. Because he was going in a different car to us. And then I had to help my Uncle Steve reverse his car out of his pocket spot. And I did that and then when I turned around without a gun, and then you would never see him again.

Tom Gerken 11:35 Every time in your dream, you have, I mean, quite a solid realisation. But that's the end of your relationship.

Rich 11:45 Yeah, yeah. Yes, essentially, every dream ends with me, essentially, almost immediately coming to terms with the fact that he's going because quite often people say these, like dreams are about trying to wrestle with how difficult it is to lose someone. My head was like, Yep, so yet, got it. Off you go.

Tom Gerken 12:06 Oh, that's that's nicely. That's nicely worrying that

Rich 12:11 isn't it? And but then if you start analysing that dream, in why your leisure centre, I guess?

Tom Gerken 12:18 Well, rich, this is where I've got us covered, because I've got dream moods.com. Now this is, this is a dream dictionary website. So they, they reckon that they've got all the answers. If

Rich 12:35 you are going to sort of analyse a dream, you can make anything make sense. So you're going to analyse that dream to go Leisure Centre is a place you'd go as a family when you were kids, and you were a kid in the dream, and you were with your family separated from your dad. And so it's your subconscious is way of preparing you for the end of your childhood, essentially. And then another part of me would go rich, you were 24 when this happened, you should have already said goodbye to your childhood. And I will say yes, I should. And yes, I still should. I'm 31 years old and still very much a child. But I think if you take you can take any part of it and apply metaphor to it carpark. Why a car park? Actually, that one, that

Unknown Speaker 13:15 one's gonna be harder to but

Rich 13:17 you have to pay be only stay for a certain amount of time. That's the that's the metaphor and carpark it's a temporary stay. And it's saying that life is a temporary stay. And it has four stories, and it's becoming increasingly expensive. What I've got is okay, is it that is it what I just said,

Tom Gerken 13:37 I've got swimming pool.

Rich 13:40 Okay, and it I'm gonna guess tears.

Tom Gerken 13:44 It's none of this is saying that it's about relaxation and says you need to take a break. I'm not. I'm not I don't know why but it's

Rich 13:53 a hangover from from my father. I've got I'm taking quite an important break from my dad currently.

Tom Gerken 13:58 Absolutely. It has got it suggest a swimming pool suggests you need to acknowledge and understand your feelings, though. I suspect they might say that and everything on this website. Yeah. Oh, it does say Hang on. They have got a pun for it. It's time to dive in and deal with the emotions. Okay, got the pun,

Rich 14:22 right. I feel like that's quite harsh reading of a dream that I had. I mean, literally two days after he died. These people are going well, you need to hurry up and did you still have a dream?

Tom Gerken 14:35 Can you remember? No, we didn't. We just went through the lobby. Oh, and the second dream moods.com has got you covered. It's got an entry on a lobby set, see an empty swimming pool or not see a swimming pool, which I suspect isn't referring for most rooms. Yeah. We're not talking about every swimming pool dream. I suspect they may go to where it is and it isn't or I guess being in a lobby and Right, you don't get to swim pool. I'm gonna. I'm gonna count it. Okay? It says rich, but you are literally feeling empty and devoid of emotions. Oh, wow. So,

Rich 15:14 God. So how did people before the invention of swimming pools? How did people express their lack of emotion in dreams? Well, people didn't dream before the invention of swimming pools now. Those two happen at the same time.

Tom Gerken 15:35 So I've looked up conjuring moods.com.

Rich 15:39 Okay, car or car park.

Tom Gerken 15:42 They haven't got car park. I was wondering if you could tell me a bit more about it. And I could, I could draw out a few individual aspects, because they got a lot of colour information.

Rich 15:50 While I was helping my Uncle Steve, reverse his car out of a spot. So I guess reverse? Yeah, Steve is Uncle Steve in there.

Tom Gerken 16:02 Now it says to see a parked car in your dream suggests you need to turn your efforts and energies elsewhere. Okay, when was the stream?

Rich 16:16 Well, that dream was about a couple of nights after the first dream.

Tom Gerken 16:20 Yeah, so it was the your brain was going stop. Stop worrying about it was dead. It's gone.

Rich 16:27 Again, quite brutal.

Tom Gerken 16:28 But it does say you may be needlessly spending your energy in a fruitless endeavour, which to some extent, you know, once he has died.

Rich 16:41 It's an accurate but fairly unkind reading of grief, isn't

Tom Gerken 16:44 it? Interestingly, they have got a section on haunted cars, which

Rich 16:49 Okay, let's let Why not we're here now.

Tom Gerken 16:53 It's the last time this will last during moods.com section of this of this podcast. It says a haunted car represents unfinished goals. So you started on a journey but never reached the end. So I was just wondering if you have any unfinished goals that I can help you finish?

Rich 17:12 Have having a living dad was was one of my goals. I guess. I planned to get through a significant portion of my life with a dad. And then some my unfinished goal was having a doubt. Does that make sense?

Tom Gerken 17:27 No, but, but it does nicely wrap up this section. So

Rich 17:31 the big question for me with dreams is we've discussed it briefly already. But do you think you personally think that dreams actually mean anything? No. No? Okay. So we agreed on that.

Tom Gerken 17:46 I think dreams have no meaning at all. It's just your brain doing some nonsense. But if someone gives some kind of significance to it, I don't immediately write it off.

Unknown Speaker 17:59 I go. Okay.

Tom Gerken 18:00 I like that interpretation. I enjoy the interpretation, though. I don't I don't believe it's steeped in science, you know?

Rich 18:07 Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're random and sort of order is imposed on them afterwards, rather than they are in fact messages from your subconscious, yes. Or beyond the grave, as has been suggested, Oh, no. Sweat because I did a little bit of research into sort of Dream Theory, and found a website that talked a little bit about dream dreaming about someone who's died. And they split them into two different types of dream. One is called a visitation dream. And one is called a release dream.

Tom Gerken 18:45 I had a release stream when I was 13.

Rich 18:50 It's lovely stuff. But let's wade through the murky waters of have any sort of dream release? Yes. And into the more serious waters of interpreting the death of a parent through things that happen in your head while you're asleep?

Tom Gerken 19:10 Well, it would be a weird thing to have for it's ended up being a release string. That's what we'll say for those

Rich 19:15 two things to crowdsource, so to speak. So, according to this website, release dreams help us process our feelings. So the dreams that we've talked about, in which we've experienced release our

Tom Gerken 19:37 one release?

Rich 19:42 Well, according to this website, the two things I talked about about the car park and the leisure centre would both be classes release dreams, Oh, no. Where I was processing my feelings and essentially moving on, which again, I feel is an alarming indictment. Have me that 48 hours after my dad's death, my brain was already going come on may just were over their head reaction to it. Yeah, yeah. Visitation dreams, according to this website.

Unknown Speaker 20:15 I'm really glad we're getting off released.

Rich 20:21 You've got to get off with relief dreams, isn't it? Yeah, that's the appeal. Visitation dreams, on the other hand, are communications from beyond. Okay, here we go. So these are legitimate messages from the loved one who has died. And I just wanted to quote this. And it's also important to say, I don't mean to disparage this, if you if you're someone who gets comfort from this idea, I frankly hope that it's true, I'd love to be visited from the grave. I just don't believe it. But I enjoyed this quote, which was, it is impossible for us to prove much about the afterlife. However, there is enough evidence to support the belief that loved ones can communicate with us through our dreams.

Unknown Speaker 21:12 It's quite funny, though. To be fair to him

Rich 21:14 there is there just is. And then I looked for that proof and lower down it said, for many of us, proof in inverted commas is not necessarily Well, there it is. Yeah, so I think that's been pretty much proven.

Tom Gerken 21:30 It's nice. Like initially like, Alright, fair enough. We'll give you the afterlife. But can we just compromise over drifts? Sounds reasonable when you phrase it like that? Yeah.

Rich 21:44 Yeah. Do you think you've ever had a visitation dream from your dad? Have you ever had a dream where your dad has spoken has said anything profound? Or spoken directly to you? Or is it mainly zoo based?

Tom Gerken 21:56 Absolutely. No, in no way never. I've had a lot of dreams where we've been travelling to places or about to go to places or he says that, and then we go there. So like, we're gonna go to the beach. And then the next memory of the dream is we're at the beach. And I'm kind of in the sounds of things over there. And we're sort of playing at the beach kind of thing. I've had a lot of those where we'll do an activity, what I would say is that, to be fair to it's believable, because it's real person. If my dad was capable of visiting me in a dream, due to the nature of the relationship that we had, going to the beach together would really be what he would do, I would have thought I mean, that is a check in that column.

Rich 22:48 Yeah. And to be fair, likewise, if very normal behaviour for my dad to wander off into Leisure Centre. Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing he used to do. But that's the thing with these, the idea that these are messages from beyond the grave, in all of the treatments, but that just fucks off. That's the cold. He's come to visit. And he's just been like, I know, I've got other things to do, actually.

Tom Gerken 23:14 I'd stop in but you know, I've only got a few hours here to get.

Rich 23:19 He's turned up from beyond the grave, and he's gone. What we do swimming now. No, not for me.

Tom Gerken 23:23 Actually. You know, you've got a whole lifetime a dream so I could pop in. I don't want to go swimming.

Rich 23:27 Yeah. I'll come back when you have no more interesting on

Tom Gerken 23:31 the beach. I'll come along. It's just fortunate in all of my dreams. We've been doing activities my dad would enjoy. Yeah, what are the what working as a barista?

Rich 23:45 Oh, barista as I thought there was a further treatment, which he was representing.

Tom Gerken 23:52 Yeah, that's got that word a bit muddled, didn't I?

Rich 23:55 Imagine that a dream in which your dad is representing you? In the case in which you've been tried for his murder?

Unknown Speaker 24:08 Case dismissed.

Rich 24:09 It would be a brave judge who found you guilty of the murder of the man represented man. He's right there. Exactly. If your dad were to visit UNIDROIT Yes. And say, Tom, avenge my death.

Unknown Speaker 24:23 Oh, God,

Rich 24:24 I guess how would you go about that? Yes.

Tom Gerken 24:28 I mean, I, I think it'd be quite a lot of pressure for my dad to put on me to cure cancer. That is what he's done. Feels like he's asked too much.

Rich 24:42 What if What if he came to you in a dream and said, Tom, okay, you can't cure cancer

Unknown Speaker 24:48 the next night? Who's that? Yeah. It's got a bit excited.

Rich 24:52 I I misspoke. I was just my first dream. I didn't really know what the etiquette is. Is but I'd like to think, actually don't cure cancer. But if you could do a fun run for Macmillan.

Tom Gerken 25:06 Oh, that's interesting. I will answer it. But the way you phrased that question, really made it sound like you're about to say, don't cure cancer, make it worse. A different request. Would I do a fun run? If in my dream, my dad said, do a fun one. You know what?

Unknown Speaker 25:28 I would? You will,

Tom Gerken 25:31 I think if my dad, I had a dream that my dad was in when he said, I just need to do a fun run. I feel like I might as well. But where's the cutoff? Rich? For example? Would you also do the fun run?

Rich 25:45 What are we talking here? 5k. That's

Tom Gerken 25:47 what I'm saying. It's a 3k. And you get a medal.

Rich 25:52 Oh, I do a 3k for a medal. Whether or not my dad was

Tom Gerken 25:55 dead or alive. You can do that. Anyway. I love metal in that case. 3k. No metal. And actually, you have to give them a metal. That's the worst part.

Rich 26:05 Oh, no. One of my existing metals. Yeah, I think if my dad came to me and said, I want you to do a fun run for meningitis research. And he said that in a dream. I think part of me would definitely think Have you not got anything more personal to say?

Tom Gerken 26:23 Yes. Well, this is my thing to you is that I'm just wondering where the cutoff is. Because I would also do a 3k I would even do a 5k. But if your dad came to you on a dream, like, you're not going to do a marathon, right? So what you would do is somewhere between a 3k and a marathon, and I'm just trying to find where it is.

Rich 26:46 Yeah, I think I mean, 5k Yeah.

Tom Gerken 26:49 What about that?

Rich 26:53 Yeah, that's the thing couch to 5k, I think is achievable. A 10k. If there was an app, that would tell me exactly how to do that. Then then maybe but I'm not a runner. 10k. So it's a it's a lot of K.

Tom Gerken 27:07 What about if it was a light travelling where it was a 5k? No, a 3k run? A 3k Swim, and a 3k bike? A lot of swimming 3k. That sounds like loads of swimming.

Rich 27:21 Yes. It's too much, isn't it? It's quite short. It's a really short bike ride is a short run. And incredibly arduous.

Tom Gerken 27:31 Yeah, it's one case swim. 3k Run 5k bike.

Rich 27:37 Right. Yeah, I mean, I probably should

Tom Gerken 27:42 work though, isn't it?

Rich 27:43 I don't know if, because that's I used to briefly started running. Because it's meant to be good for your mental health after after my dad died. And I wasn't feeling good. I thought, well, I've tried everything else. I've tried crying. I've tried hating myself, I cry. That work. That's not worked. So let's try running. And I went running and I used to try to when I got tired to actively think these are experiences your dad would love to have because he's dead now. And he can't experience the sun going down over like Lakeside in Doncaster. He can't experience the pain in his lungs when he's breathing cold air. And it really it didn't help. I mean, it helped for forced us it didn't

Tom Gerken 28:30 help. I mean, that's the kind of thing but that's just the running variation on parents saying to their child, you better eat these peas because there's children starving in Africa. Yeah, you were doing was that but we've running and a dead parent, obviously. Yes, it was the African child in this scenario.

Rich 28:52 But that that's what that's what worries me is that I think as much as I would wake up from a dream in which my dad had for some reason ordered me to do a 10k I would wake up hugely motivated. And I think that motivation would last for Max 2k All right.

Tom Gerken 29:10 So I've I've amended the deal. he opts to a 3k

Rich 29:14 is the next night my dad's come back again. It's been another job loads

Unknown Speaker 29:18 of papers. I thought about I'm so sorry. I've been disorganised this your dad's

Tom Gerken 29:24 been loud, man. He got those papers. And, and it's look, it's a 3k That's it. You would do it. Yeah, okay. Yeah. It's the night before 3k Your dad who hasn't destroyed you in a dream doesn't see once again since then. disarray papers everywhere. He's it's moving. It's there. He sounds like you know start America office with ombre

Unknown Speaker 30:09 that's yes. Yeah. Okay, it's like she walks

Tom Gerken 30:19 right, Rach? I'm so sorry. I'm literally crying. He says I'm so sorry. I got it completely wrong. Don't do it. Oh, and it goes I'm so don't do it. Whatever happened don't do the 3k of a new wakeup. Okay. Now. Do you do the 3k?

Rich 30:46 Oh, well, I mean, I, I've never needed much motivation to not do a 3k. Yeah, I've quite successfully travelled through my life without ever accidentally doing a 3k Certainly not keep someone's wishes.

Tom Gerken 31:01 Rich. So now here's the problem. You've got a JustGiving page 230 quid to do this.

Rich 31:10 Oh, shit. That's not a lot.

Tom Gerken 31:13 Well, he didn't know many people. It's it's you're just giving page. You know, you've got yourself to blame. Marketing. Go on Twitter. You know,

Rich 31:23 I think the dream aspects put a lot of people. I've seemed a bit mad.

Tom Gerken 31:28 That didn't put them off this, this new wrinkle is really going to consider Yeah, yeah. What do you do if you don't do the 3k? No, money's going to manage this research.

Rich 31:39 Here's what I do. I can't do the 3k. But I need to raise that money. What I do is I have a shower. It's that I don't drive myself that well. Put on a vest or put on some shorts. I stand out in the street, and I take a selfie of me with one of my pre existing medals on. And I post that and say, Oh, bloody hell, tough one that 3k. But I ran out all of the Ks of it. And thanks for tuning in 30 pounds. Well worked out. Thank you got him nice anyway, got out of it.

Tom Gerken 32:18 I'll tell you why. Yeah, you get to sleep. Your dad shows up, calm, barely any noise at all. And it's just like, get on your mate.

Rich 32:28 Thanks for training for then. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 32:31 that's for my ridiculous demand.

Tom Gerken 32:40 As the show goes on, what we'd really like is for you, listener, to get in touch with us with your experiences of things that we're talking about. So in this episode, we're talking about dreams. And if you've experienced a dream, something involving a parent who you lost, that maybe confused you or was interesting or novel or just plain weird. We'd love it if you'd get in touch with us, and send us those dreams. And you can just get in touch with either of us on Twitter. And we'll we'll figure out how to do that. But for now, we get in touch with a few of our friends and family. And they shared with us some of their dreams. And we're just going to look into them a little bit now and try and figure out exactly what is going on. So bearing in mind how frustrated I am at people who can take comfort from their dad visiting them in dreams. Here is my little sister. So

Speaker 3 33:33 this is a reoccurring dream that I have a few different variations of. But this was the first one that I had only a few months after dad died. So I dreamt that I was on a plane, and I hate planes. So I was feeling pretty anxious. But dad comes and sits down next to me. And he looks like he did before he got sick. He's like healthy and like literally glowing. And he's drinking a beer on the plane. And he asked me how I'm doing. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm good, I'm good. And then we just start playing cards. And then the time like went by so quickly. And the next thing I know, the planes landing and dad gives me a little wave and he tells me he loves me and he says goodbye. And then I wake up and I have similar dreams to that quite often. And I always feel really like happy and comforted when I wake up like he's just popping in to check on me. And I think they're my favourite dreams.

Tom Gerken 34:40 I have had, I assume the same number of dreams as my sister if not possibly more. Since my dad has died, not once and he said I love you. If this whole visitation thing is real then. I mean, it's a bit of an insult, isn't it?

Rich 35:04 I like the idea that it is a visitation that he's got on the plane. He's play cards with your sister. He said, I love you. He's got off and you deliver Thompson coffees in a zoo?

Tom Gerken 35:15 What she's always in them as well. She's part of the family of most dreams. Oh, she's there, too. She also gets to see him seven copies. Law degree. I mean, it's a nightmare.

Rich 35:28 Yeah. Does that make you feel a bit jealous?

Tom Gerken 35:30 Angry, it makes me feel when she sent me that I listened to it. Cuz she was quite long. And I listened to it. And I genuinely came out of it feeling anger. But as resentful like this, that's not fair, that she gets to experience things which comfort her. And I don't, I don't believe in any of this. But if I had a dream in which my dad said, I love you, that would feel nice. You know, and I don't get to have that. So that's not fair. Really. Yeah. So that's, that's annoying.

Rich 36:10 But what do you think that dream means? Because the other thing is, perhaps we're not being visited by our dead parents and our dreams. And everything that happens in your dream is coming from within your own head. So one of the theories is everything that happens in your dream is you talking to you. So what's really happening in that dream is your sister is getting on a plane, telling yourself that she loves her off again, it's a really, it's a metaphor for how much your sister loves her self.

Tom Gerken 36:39 Well, no comment from me. But wait, that's fine. Loving yourself is a good thing. What Why don't is so I, what you're saying is I hate myself enough to give myself a coffee and say that's enough of the relationship that I think we should have make.

Rich 37:03 I think what your brain says is that you like the zoo, and also your head does not make any sense.

Tom Gerken 37:10 Now that is something we can agree on.

Rich 37:14 My brother also had a dream, which I'm going to play I've not listened to this, but I remember him telling me about this dream when it first happened. But it'll be interesting to hear and fill in the details.

Speaker 4 37:26 I had a dream that my brother Rich was in my bedroom, and he was curled up on the floor in the foetal position and then just began to die. I think I just saw that he'd stopped breathing. And I then ran downstairs and my dad who had died but was very much alive and well in three and he was a doctor so I ran downstairs and I said, Dad, you need to come up with your doctor come and save Richie started to die, he's dying. But that was standing in the front of the kitchen in the doorway, sharpening his knife. And he was and he looked at me and I just sort of understood in the dream that his look meant on just about to start carving the chicken for Sunday roast. I don't have time to come and save my son's life. And I'm actually quite annoyed that you even asked and yes, quite a dark room and then subsequently I went upstairs and which was fine. He was alive. So happy endings so

Tom Gerken 38:40 you were in the foetal position.

Rich 38:42 Yeah. And if we were to I think analyse the dreams of my brother and your sister. Who would we say is doing better mentally

Tom Gerken 38:58 Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. It's not a bad point. I really liked dev shop

Unknown Speaker 39:14 shopping he's

Tom Gerken 39:18 really liked that delivery. Oh my god, you're in the foetal position he's sharpening his knife I'm dying I mean that is that's really bleak I mean that it's probably that to be dark isn't everything I've ever dreamed of anyone dying before. So that is property but then you turn out to be live so it's Yeah. Do you think there's a section on the tree moods website for dead dad ominously sharpening.

Rich 39:56 Dead dad sharpens knife instead of saving dying brother. Have

Tom Gerken 40:01 I really got the idea of his look from that? I could see his face. Just why bothering me with this father get

Rich 40:09 to quote a look that says I'm about to carve the chicken. Why are you bothering me with this with

Tom Gerken 40:17 the wave of dreams started? I was so convinced it was going. A look that said, I'm about to start carving his body. That's how it felt he was going so when the chicken got mentioned, I was turned around for me, frankly.

Rich 40:34 Yeah, but then this is a dream, which my dad is not even. He's not invested enough in my life to to want me dead or alive. He's just like, I've got a chicken to eat. If

Tom Gerken 40:45 you've already died, death doesn't seem so significant to you. Yeah, maybe you're dying. He's like, Great.

Rich 40:53 Welcome to the afterlife. Come

Tom Gerken 40:55 join me. We'll go Powerball swing with a

Rich 40:59 chicken,

Tom Gerken 41:01 which I'm carving now in preparation for His visitation.

Rich 41:06 Also terrible news. Here's your granddad.

Tom Gerken 41:11 Oh, it's a lovely punch line.

Speaker 5 41:14 Hi, I'm Chris. And my biological father died when I was almost three years old. So I don't have any memories of him. And I certainly don't remember have any dreams about him since my mom passed away 15 years ago now. And although memories get a little bit hazy as time passes, I do remember having a dream about her quite soon after she died where she came to me in a dream and passed on a message that she was okay. And, you know, I I took comfort from that and so much so that I shared that message with my sister. And talking about dreams is not really something that I'm you know, prone or inclined to do so it clearly had a big impact on me.

Rich 42:09 So that's that, according to the website I went to is a classic example of visitation tree.

Tom Gerken 42:15 Well, yes, this is the first stream we've had where the person says I'm okay.

Rich 42:20 Hmm. They passed on a message Yeah. That's quite nice. So that would be nice. That would be comforting. That's you know better than him serving you two coffees in a zoo.

Tom Gerken 42:35 Quite right. It's not well one coffee for me, but it's not a it's not a it's not a harrowing dream like well sharpening his knife. Yeah, but but glad that Chris sent in a message because if you caught it at the start that he mentioned that his dad died when he was very young. And then his mum died about 15 years ago as well. So sometimes on this show we talk about who had it worse if you like the old dead dad Tom Trump's

Rich 43:08 double here that's he's got significantly better stats than both of us. But that's the thing is, again, when we when we talk about in the podcast called our dads died, but it's not specifically about dads. It's you know, it's it's stepped at its uncle's, its mother's is brothers and sisters. It's

Tom Gerken 43:30 Yeah, exactly. I've experienced somebody dying. That's that's what it is. Really? Yeah. It's great. Just so happens that you and me, our dads died. But yeah, you've had a bit of a bad time and you enjoy joking about it, then. Hopefully, this is helpful. Yeah, I've spoken to my mum as well, and she's got a dream. It's the last dream I've got for you today. Okay, and this one's a bit. Well, which have you met my mum.

Rich 43:57 I have met your mom, could you summarise? She is a an artist. She is very friendly. She's a bit mad. Let's leave it at that.

Speaker 6 44:14 So dreams about my dad. Well, he died when I was not in the country. And so there was a sense of perhaps unreality about the whole thing and disbelief. And so I didn't, I kind of expect him to turn up in a dream and tell me that he had gone but that didn't happen. And I carried on having normal dreams for about three or four years where he and mum would be their mom obviously still alive, but he would be there in the room or give me a lift in the car or something like that. Just normal. And then one day, I went into a room in my dream, and he was sitting in it chair and I said to him, you're dead, aren't you? And he just turned to me and said, Yeah. And then the dreams carried on as normal again, back to normal, who's always there with my mom? So whatever that means, I don't know. But that's the way it turned out for me.

Tom Gerken 45:19 That's not a million miles away from the dreams. I've got my daddy. But

Rich 45:22 yeah, I mean, that's just, it was just quite a formal exchange.

Tom Gerken 45:29 Just after the fact.

Rich 45:31 Yes, the swapping of information. You're dead, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it is it probably, if you were, if you were to take anything, from any of these things, it's very easy to interpret it in a way that can upset you, I think, because unless you've been visited every night, then you're like, Well, where was the last night? He's still there. I still miss him. And he's up there on a Thursday. But also dreams you only remember a dream if you wake up during the dream, I think is what people say. Otherwise, it doesn't commit to long term memory. And so perhaps he's visiting you and your brother in all of your dreams. And then you're not waking up and he's just can you URI. He's there every night. And then the one time with you he gets a chance. He's so confused. He's been the sort of supplanted into a zoo, and he's behind a bar and he's got a coffee as well. I guess I'll just give you Okay. And now he's gone.

Tom Gerken 46:30 Over Charles gone. Yeah, you missed it. Oh, man.

Rich 46:34 Your dreams are such an obstacle course.

Tom Gerken 46:36 To get through my psyche. The way you're putting it as well. Like he's like really important to pass on. Like, you need to cancel my phone bill. II taking the money you need to cancel the golf got caught out. How do you make a toffee nut latte, you know, and he's just trying to do all of that stuff. You by the time he's figured it out. Isn't it isn't 60 sevens rich?

Rich 46:57 Exactly. He's trying to deliver the news but he's got the head of a hippo.

Tom Gerken 47:03 What's funny about that all the animals you could have picked what a perfect pic. They loved the pygmy hippos. Marwell zoo really picked his favourite animal. When he died, we got a plaque. You know, one of those in memoriam things in the pygmy hippo exhibit in Marwell. Zoo. jonka.

Rich 47:22 Nice. Nice,

Tom Gerken 47:23 good choice. Okay, right, I have so many things to say, can we get this episode? I listen to it two or three times this week. And I am not 100% sure of where to start, I suppose. My favourite part of the episode, which is not any either of our dreams to drink with your family member? It was your dad with his night.

Rich 48:01 Again, it's it's quite strange hearing because we recorded these like a long time ago and for a number of reasons we couldn't release until now. I had completely forgotten about that. And when he started telling the story of me lying in the foetal position and slowly dying on his bedroom floor, while my dad sharpened the knife it Yeah, I think I blanked that out.

Tom Gerken 48:26 But not just your brother's dream, though. How about my sister's dream? I think I think this was this this is it's so lovely. I mean, I actually forgot how lovely it was. Yeah, I haven't. I haven't said this there. This is going to be surprised that her hearing this by the way, how much I hate her dream. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that feedback. I am so jealous of it. listening back to it. I'm still really jealous.

Rich 48:55 Yeah, I know. He made I. Again, I'd sort of forgotten about that. And then heard it back and was like, yeah, that's, that's kind of that's the dream this one would have in a film. You know, that's that's the end of Field of Dreams. Essentially. If instead of building a baseball stadium, we built an airport.

Unknown Speaker 49:14 Its Field of Dreams, a film about dreaming.

Rich 49:17 Well, in a way. No,

Tom Gerken 49:21 I haven't seen it. And now I got this idea. But it's about people. It's going it's like an inception style thing where they look at people's dreams. They go

Rich 49:31 back into fathers into all the dreams Yeah. At the end of dreams. He builds a big baseball pitch. Because his dad tells him to be his dad's dead. And that Oh, and then at the end, this is a spoiler but at the end is Dad's ghost comes back and they play baseball for

Tom Gerken 49:53 fair enough. I didn't realise Phil Dreams was so heavy.

Rich 49:57 Yeah, very heavy, but also quite fun. Um, but yeah, okay, dreams are mental. And that's this is I mean, it's one of my it was one of my favourite ones that we recorded because there is there's trying to put logic into the entirely illogical is a very, very fun thing to do, which is why we're planning to do one of these each series, I think. Yeah, because I mean, I think you have and I definitely have quite recently had a dream what I would call a game changing dream about my dad. Which I haven't even told me yours because we save it for the episode.

Tom Gerken 50:36 Yeah, I've got a big dream. I've got big dead dream. I mean, I've got a barnstormer. I mean, you know from context, it doesn't involve him slowly walking away from a plane. I'll be there for you plays or I suppose maybe a more romantic son with a few friends. But you know, hey, does it feature as you had available to me? Ah, it listen.

Speaker 7 51:02 Oh will be revealed. So give it away. Okay. On the next season of our dads dies, that's what I will say.

Rich 51:07 Right. Okay, that's it. So I'm looking forward to it. What we do want to do in that episode as well is to, to hear from you about your dreams. If you've ever had a dad based dream, and I think I mean, I think they are quite common from everyone that I've spoken to. It's very natural, you'll still dream about someone who was in it was a big part of your life. So send us yours. Maybe we'll we'll give them a bit of analysis. Maybe you can tell us what you thought about them how they made you feel. If you've if you've got a dream on ascenders our dad's died pod@gmail.com And we'll read that out on the show.

Speaker 1 51:45 Another way you can give us your dreams is by leaving them in a five star review on casts we need these five star reviews because this is how we get on new and noteworthy somehow this is how other people find out about this podcast right? I need you to get your bands on Apple podcast and five stars and leave us a lovely review all about a dream you just write write your dream. Don't even bother reviewing it. Just write the dream. Get this review I want when I go on Apple podcast, I want this to look insane. Like like no one reading this will have any idea what the show is about Beltsville like why are they why people writing their crazy dreams here. That's what I want. So next week on the podcast, we have got our good friend Victor Sweeney, coming back to give us another shot of his experience as a mortician. Yeah,

Rich 52:44 Victor. We love him. We've stayed in contact with Victor and we're hoping that he's going to come back on the podcast again, because he that there are endless every, every time I've listened to that episode again. I've come with more questions that I want to ask him.

Speaker 1 52:57 Exactly. And one of the questions that we only touched on in that episode was about his dreams as a mortician. So I was wondering if we could get a little bit more information about that. What do funeral directors dream about? So I went on Reddit. subreddit asked funeral directors, it's not out during the blackout. And I said, you know me and my best friend lost her dad few years ago. This is what a mortician told us. What kind of anxiety dreams do funeral directors have? And I thought rich I might read you a couple of them here for you to give your prime Pristina you know about dreams now you want? Yes, but yes, Dream expert. Give us your analysis of what this means she'll think so. So here's the first one for you here. I don't dream I also rarely sleep.

Rich 53:50 Oh that is both a very appropriate thing for an undertaker to say. And also exactly what you don't want to hear from a mortician I don't dream. I rarely sleep

Tom Gerken 54:09 with the ball the responses is what they not talking about being traumatised stretch right. The bodies are safe Okay. As far as my can't speak for all of them

right so here's one. I have dreams a lot that the person I'm embalming is actually alive. And then because I embalmed them, I basically killed them.

Rich 54:41 Which is the thing that we said to Victor, have you ever had that dream? And he said no. By me that must I can see why you would. Surely that's the big fear. You're a mortician, right.

Tom Gerken 54:52 It's renders you've killed a man by in Birmingham and

Rich 54:57 what an awful way to go efficient but

Tom Gerken 55:05 I mean, it cuts through doesn't it? There's there's a speed there, which is at least if nothing else that slight you'd be grateful for.

Speaker 1 55:18 It's awful isn't it? Now I appreciate you might be saying right now. Well hang on a second. Tom. You said I'd get to do some dream analysis. And so far the analysis has been quite straightforward. Well, I've got ready on the nose, aren't they? Okay, hit me. So you've heard what they were all like. People say we don't sleep cetera, et cetera. Here's one from yellow Diplodocus on Reddit. Last night, I had a dream, but I was eating copious amounts of salt. Just plain salt.

Rich 55:46 eating copious amounts of salt.

Tom Gerken 55:48 Now, come on, we've got to do them a favour here. We've got we've got to figure out the meaning behind this rich.

Rich 55:53 Right. Well, I mean, salt is very drying. Carry on. When you embark on a body, as Victor told us, you do have to drain it.

Tom Gerken 56:08 That's that it's that drain time coming back?

Rich 56:11 Could it be the the fear? Because he spent so long draining bodies, that sort of subconsciously he's preparing for his own death by eating so much salt that it absorbs all of the fluid? So there's no draining? Is it his reckoning of sort of coming to terms with death?

Tom Gerken 56:29 I don't like that at all.

Rich 56:31 I mean, no one I didn't know you didn't say they weren't up to like it. It's,

Speaker 1 56:35 that's true. I've got another I've got an alternative thought I thought I wondered if it was, you know, trying to get in the head of dream. moods.com Yeah. From the episode, I wondered if it was gonna be like, salt is a simple food. And if you're dreaming of a simple food, that means you're craving simpleness in your life. Maybe being a funeral director is quite complicated. So the dream is calling out for copious amounts of simplicity in their life.

Rich 57:08 Ah, I see possibly. I like that you went into journalism mode when he said that. Salt is famously basic product. Where does it come from? Well, we went to stoke to find out

Speaker 1 57:23 mad dreams from funeral directors. And and I, you know, I don't know what to say, other than if you want to know more from the psyche. What makes a funeral director tick? We have Victor coming back on next week. And he doesn't just talk to us about being a funeral director next week. He talks to us about well, frankly, personal tragedy. So if you've got this far in the podcast, clearly, that's something you're into

Tom Gerken 57:49 sticking around, and please send us your dreams and they may well get read out on the podcast.

Rich 57:57 Thank you very much for listening. We'll be back next Friday with a bit more dead dad content. But until then, look after your mom's

Tom Gerken 58:05 and your dad's or look after themselves.

Unknown Speaker 58:10 Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai