Lucy Dearlove: This is Lecker. I'm Lucy Dearlove.

Welcome to the Lecker Guide to breakfast. Over the past few

months, I've been interviewing people about their breakfast

habits. Those full episodes are available for paid subscribers

on Patreon, on Apple Podcasts and Substack. But here I've

compiled some of my favorite bits into a real buffet. I hope

you're hungry.

There's nothing like being slipped out of your routine by

circumstance to remind you of how entrenched your habits are.

I just spent almost three months at three days to be exact.

Traveling around the continent of Europe on trains. Mornings

included croissants, porros, pan con tomate, galaktoboureko. But

do you know what I was looking forward to as soon as I got

home? Eating, as I do every morning under usual

circumstances, a bowl of Sainsbury's nutty muesli with

Greek yogurt and a splash of milk.

Gurdeep Loyal: So at home breakfast for me is a cereal,

which is either fruit and fibre or special K. There is no

deviation from that...the only deviation is every now and then

if they don't have the plain Special K, I will get the red

berry.

Lara Lee: But it's generally quite simple and it's something

that needs to be rustled up in really five minutes just because

we all want to get the day going and you know, for whatever

reason, it would be nice as nice to cook for an hour in the

morning. But then I also don't want too much washing up either.

Right?

Bre Graham: I am a breakfast person, but I am like a very

like chaotic breakfast person. I like...my, my breakfast moods

come in like big mood swings. So sometimes I'll have...like going

through a real toast phase at the moment. But like that will

last like maybe a week, two weeks and then like I won't be

able to touch toast for breakfast for like the next

month, and then it will go in another phase.

Thea Everett: I am really not very good with breakfast, except

for Saturday, sometimes Sunday but I'm really I like I end up

eating just whatever I have and whatever I have is horrid.

Lucy Dearlove: When I started thinking about who I wanted to

ask about their breakfast habits, Bettina Makalintal

immediately came to mind. I've been following her work for a

while now, both her writing and her excellent, often egg based

TikToks. And one of the things I admire the most is her strong

belief that anything can be breakfast.

Bettina Makalintal: I'm a very, very sort of intuitive eater,

like people are always like, how do you decide what you want to

eat? And I think I'm just very much like, I always just like I

go to bed with a craving or I wake up with a craving. And so

it's really just that like, you know, this morning, I'm just

like, Okay, I really want to eat just a bunch of kale. And I

hadn't done that for breakfast in a while. So I think it's very

much just sort of, like spur of the moment and like, you know, I

think an egg is an easy thing to rely on. So often that's sort of

like the starting point for me, but really, breakfast is sort of

like whatever is in the fridge.

Lucy Dearlove: When I spoke to Dan Hancox and Kasia Tee of the

podcast Cursed Objects. Kasia agreed that flatting the

understood sometimes unspoken conventions of breakfast has

always been appealing to her.

Kasia Tee: I feel like I've always been a rogue breakfast

eater, though. Great. I love when I was when I was at school.

Because I never wanted to eat breakfast. I just never really

ate breakfast. My mum would try and tempt me with like, samosas.

Yeah, it's a little...like spring rolls that she'd do under

the grill and then like, then I'd eat breakfast. But otherwise

I just be like, No, I'm not eating cornflakes.

Dan Hancox: There's a Colombian place near Seven Sisters station

that I've got empanadas before on my way into work. That is,

it's a little parcel it makes perfect sense. It's basically a

transposable savory pop tart for the for the like I said, I've

never had a pop tart preference. But you know, I know they're

important part of like, Anglo American breakfast culture. Or

certainly when I was a kid, I don't think we were allowed to

have fun. You can have some cereal.

Lucy Dearlove: And Lara Lee, author of A Splash of Soy sang

the praises of breaking breakfast rules too. Her new

book includes brunch recipes for a tom yum Bloody Mary and a

kimchi toastiw. Growing up in Australia with an Indonesian

dad, Lara did eat delicious Indonesian breakfasts...just not

necessarily at breakfast time.

Lara Lee: You might have mee goreng with noodles. You might

even have like a beautiful soup, or a jackfruit stew. And so And

always, typically with rice or noodles and so you'll find that

the reason why these breakfasts are quite I guess carbohydrate

heavy is to provide a lot of energy for the week. Same day so

that it kind of just works that way that that is such an

important meal. There's also bubur som som, which is like a

beautiful kind of rice porridge that might be served with a palm

sugar syrup. And there's also Bubur hitam, which is with black

glutinous rice, a similar principle a bit of coconut milk

going to get the palm sugar syrup. So that's quite sweet and

might be served with some, you know, jackfruit, fresh jackfruit

and maybe infused with pandam you know, really delicious food

and flavours that you know, for me would be such a main event

for my dinner because culturally my head's in that Western space.

You're starting that day with that beautiful feast. And

whenever my husband and I travel through Indonesia, and I was, I

was there just last July and you know, you you can order for

breakfast a beautiful kind of, I guess, you know it, I guess it's

a, almost like a tasting platter of the best of Indonesia. And

it's all laid. So you've got Yeah, you had your nasi goreng

or you might have some sticky kind of tempeh, you might have a

deep fried egg with sambal. So it's all of those things

combined. And yeah, it makes for really delicious eating. But you

know, it's kind of, for me, eating that way is something

that I always do in Indonesia, but for whatever reason I revert

back to the simple breakfast at home and then I would eat an

Indonesian breakfast for dinner in Australia, so I think I kind

of just went back into that kind of mode.

Lucy Dearlove: Something that came up with pretty much

everyone I spoke to was relishing the opportunity for a

leisurely weekend breakfast, even if weekdays passed without

much breakfast fanfare at all. Gurdeep Loyal, author of the

recently published cookbook, Mother Tongue, invited me round

for breakfast cooked from the book. Coconut Crab Crumpets,

Gurdeep Loyal: so this is kind of slightly South Indian-y,

Malaysian-y sort of vibe. Okay, but on crumpets because I love

crumpets. And obviously, crumpets are very British. And

that's actually one of the things I sort of wanted to do

with a bit was take things that were very quintessentially

British, and give them my third culture remix. Yeah, this is

kind of an south...I'm north Indian Punjabi, but this is kind

of South Indian, Thai, kind of flavor vibe. We'll do a first

round, and then we'll see if we want a second round, right. So

as you can start to smell them, I'm gonna put this paste in.

This is gonna not splatter off too much. You smell that?

Lucy Dearlove: Smells amazing.

Gurdeep Loyal: I do enjoy going to people's houses for

breakfast. And when people come here for breakfast I make...I do

make a real effort. And actually, because the big thing

growing up, like we would always have Saturdays and Sundays would

be like, of all the meals on a Saturday or Sunday at home in

Leicester breakfast would be the one where there was a rotating

cycle of people like whether an uncle would drop by, or my gran

has dropped by or like, I don't know, like I might have, because

I've spent most of my childhood at orchestra on the weekends.

But like, it would be like,

Lucy Dearlove: What did you play?

Gurdeep Loyal: Cello. Which is where a lot of the musical stuff

comes from. But...

Lucy Dearlove: Right of course.

Gurdeep Loyal: It'd be like, you know, like after orchestra,

which was very early morning, it was like when my friends from

orchestra would come around. And then you know, and so for me,

actually hosting a breakfast is sort of quite a sort of Loyal

family thing to do. And actually, when I think about

images of my mum cooking, the ones that are sort of most she's

very much alive, but just thinking about.

Lucy Dearlove: like, you can feel like that about being child

about like, a time that's passed.

Gurdeep Loyal: yeah, I think watching my mum make paratas in

the morning on a Saturday. - and sometimes on a Thursday, and

sometimes on a Tuesday. I mean, now it's pretty much any day of

the week - is probably one of the sort of formative food

moments for me of like, just this sense of this, like this

sort of central figure at the stove, who is simultaneously

being sort of extremely loving and giving and you know,

kneading the dough, you bring all her energy into this. And

then you know, flexing from there being two people in the

kitchen to suddenly 10 People in the kitchen because my brother's

come home from football and bought three friends with him.

And there's no way someone would come in the house and not be

fed, right? Because that's just not an option. It's like, well,

if you're in the house, you're being fed. So there's sort of

very strict like, well, I'm cooking and then Oh suddenly

there's 10 people it's sort of like okay, well now I'm cooking

for 10 So this sort of loving lovingness if I'm cooking for

you, but also this sort of strict guys, I've got 10 people

to get through now come on. This is a conveyor belt.

Lucy Dearlove: For Bre Graham, author of Table for Two,

weekends mean one thing,

Bre Graham: Saturday morning breakfast specifically even more

than like a Sunday morning breakfast is special. Saturday

morning breakfast is like, I'd say 90% of the time, it's

pancakes, have to make pancakes. I'm a big pancake person. And I

think I really like a big about like the ritual of pancakes as

well. There's something so nice about the time that it takes to

make them the, you know, the kind of, you know, you have to

you sort of work through the batter and you have to spend

time flipping each one. It's not something quick, it's not like

it's done. And then it's over. You know, if you want, if you're

making them for another person, you have to make the decision

that you're going to give them straight out of the pan or

you're going to keep make a stack and keep them all warm.

It's kind of Yeah, it's got a really nice ritual to it.

Lucy Dearlove: I love that and what what do you eat on your

pancakes?

Bre Graham: I am citrus all the way so but not just lemon like I

really love fresh oranges squeezed on pancakes, or

grapefruit or blood oranges and like sprinkle of sugar that

still has to be like a little bit crunchy.

Lucy Dearlove: So like, okay, so like, what are they like?

Bre Graham: Like a lemon and sugar by hopefully, but

Lucy Dearlove: on top of muffins kind of granular type thing.

Okay, yeah. And we're talking, we're talking American pancakes

or like, Yeah, okay.

Bre Graham: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna coin them Australian.

Lucy Dearlove: Okay, and that's my bad. Yeah, they're, well,

they're

Bre Graham: not because they're like, not quite like as muffiny

fluffy as like an American pancake. And I always use

buttermilk or Kefir or something like that. So it's kind of like

it is it's closer to American pancake than a crab sort of

situation, but not quite as dense and fluffy, lighter.

Lucy Dearlove: Family Saturday breakfasts were a big thing for

Thea Everett, creator of one of my favorite recipe Substacks.

What's That You're Cooking, Thea?

Thea Everett: Like my dad would make fry ups most Saturdays with

like fried potatoes. tinned tomato have to be tinned

tomatoes. Yeah, yeah. And he was vegetarian. So we'd have sauce

mix. Oh, yeah. Which I love. Just so salty.

Lucy Dearlove: Like, I don't know, like patties are just kind

of wait,

Thea Everett: we do them in sausages. But yeah, like, same

sort of thing. And then mushroom beans. tinned tomato. That was

the vibe. Really? Yeah. And also, he'd have this thing. He'd

make us scrambled eggs and smoked salmon. But the smoked

salmon would be chopped up in the egg. And then he made very

little and we might be my brother was like you'd have

you'd have a wooden spoon. And he'd like haven't made your pan

like that for us. And you just get this I mean, we were kids so

we probably didn't need much more but we just always remember

like Why so little? Because the eggs weren't scarce back then

it's just this thing of like an surely that's enough. falls

away.

Lucy Dearlove: It can be like how much scrambled egg to make.

You might Yeah,

Thea Everett: you get less. You get less than

Lucy Dearlove: nothing. Yeah. Like I'd happily eat maybe like

one or two boiled eggs and that'd be fine. But like, even

two scrambled eggs is sometimes a bit like oh, yeah, it was it

was the rest of it,

And Thea's continued the weekend breakfast tradition herself.

When I went round to meet her she presented me with a

delicious sort of breakfast canopy selection. Boiled eggs

with gomasio and Staffordshire oatcakes topped with plantain.

Thea Everett: this just a snack version of soft boiled eggs

served with gomasio.

Lucy Dearlove: Gomasio! What's that?

Thea Everett: I'm glad you don't know what it is what it is! It's

like sesame, salt. Japanese sesame. So my grandma used to

have it. I don't know why because she's Jewish and lived

in Bolton, but it was just what we would always be served with

our boiled eggs.

Lucy Dearlove: That's so funny. I wonder how how it got there.

Thea Everett: I don't...I have no idea how she discovered it in

like the 80s in the north and yeah, she always had it and then

my dad started we'd like he took that on Yeah.

I mean, because most people would have salt and pepper.

Yeah, why not add the sesame in black and regular ones but it's

meant to be hot but

Lucy Dearlove: Mm, the sesame is so good.

Thea Everett: Is good with the egg. So that's number one. And

then number two. This I've not finished it. I will start

finishing it in a sec. But they are Staffordshire oatcake With

plantain it will...normally right, I'd have like a full fry

up right with these two as additions.

Lucy Dearlove: Okay, so you would like have your bacon

sausage egg and maybe

Thea Everett: maybe not so much the meat I think like sometimes

I might be, let me just not have too much meat. Sometimes there'd

be meat but it's not essential. Then there'd be fried tomato

fried egg, fried mushrooms, maybe baked beans And then these

two and they're just excellent with the fryup.

Lucy Dearlove: I think a Staffordshire oatcake is such an

underrated carb to have with a fryup. I'm always amazed, like

they haven't sort of made it more.

Thea Everett: So they're really hard to find. So that was one

thing that I managed to do in town was grab some oatcakes.

Lucy Dearlove: So where did you get them?

Thea Everett: I went to Neal's Yard, because I used to work

Thea Everett: Yeah, exactly, but they don't have them every time

there

Lucy Dearlove: Oh yeah, the cheese thing, because they go

with cheese.

so I was very lucky that they had them.

Lucy Dearlove: Do they make them?

Thea Everett: No, they just get them from this barnd the same

brand at Sainsbury's.

Lucy Dearlove: North Staffordshire Oatcakes.

Thea Everett: Yeah, I mean, I've actually never had a freshly

made one. I'd like to do because my ancestors are from

Staffordshire, apparently. Want to go on a little thing. And

there was a really good Vittles about it. Yeah, I'm gonna go for

a special weekend stuff. Anyway, I'll finish this and then make a

little look at Oh my god. Great.

Lucy Dearlove: Gorgeous. And you've just fried the plantain

that looks...

Thea Everett: Yeah, I don't actually know if it was that

ripe I just got the ripest one in the shop. But we'll take what

you get.

Lucy Dearlove: And say Is this your like standard or not

standard? This is a breakfast that you'd make on a Saturday?

Thea Everett: Yeah.

Lucy Dearlove: Not everyone I spoke to feel so warmly about a

fry up, however.

Dan Hancox: Yeah, I've come to the realization slowly that I

kind of think the full English breakfast. Well, obviously a

good version of it is is good broadly speaking, it's a bit of

a cursed thing. I think it's quite, it's got a it's, you

know, it's just it's a bit much. And it is, you know, as

far as I understand from recent histories of the full English

that I've sort of listened to and read about. It's something

that emerged from a, and I'm sure you'll correct me on this

Lucy, but like, a need to sort of display all of the kind of

rich proteins that were available to the wealthy.

Lucy Dearlove: That makes sense, I didn't actually know that

Dan Hancox: sort of filter down. It's like, look, we've got

bacon, we've got sausage, black pudding, but I mean, there's a

reason why my veggie girlfriend hates it, because it's just it's

it's for meat eaters. Yes, basically. Yeah. But but I think

I've increasingly thought no, yeah, the the idea of like when

hung over going and having a full English and like several

cups of tea. Does just leave you feeling a bit sick afterwards.

Actually. Yeah, reason.

Kasia Tee: I only ever I only ever really go caff if I'm like

hungover. And yeah, you always end up feeling a lot worse.

Yeah. Is amazing, because you went in really bad. Yeah.

Lucy Dearlove: Do you sort of convince yourself that it's done

you good in the long run? Yeah. In the short term, you're like,

I really feel like shit.

Dan Hancox: A friend of mine from when I was sort of very

into like, grime and dubstep clubbing and you know, we were

going out sort of to raves two or three nights a week. I

remember meeting him in the pub on a Saturday night for going to

FWD at Plastic People and I was like, how you doing Malcolm? And

he's like, Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. You know, when you're hungover.

Normally, you'd go and have like a fry up and a Coca Cola or

something. That's what I'd normally do. I need sugar, any

protein. Well today this morning, I was really hungover

from the rave last night, I had some fruit and lots of

vegetables. And guess what, I felt much better.

Kasia Tee: Just like the light dawned.

Dan Hancox: 30 years old, and all to learn that lesson. But I

was like, Dude, that makes sense.

Lucy Dearlove: Most people weren't in the habit of going

out for breakfast outside of an emergency situation like Kasia

and Dan described, but that doesn't mean it's not something

with a big cultural significance and presence, as Bettina points

out.

Bettina Makalintal: Yeah, I mean, I think the like big one

for me is just sort of, like, the routine appearances of

brunch in Sex in the City. Like, because I think that for like,

Sex in the City is such a fascinating show. Like my

sibling who's eight years younger than me just started

watching it. And, and it's very top of mind because they're sort

of approaching it as like, someone who's like, noticeably

younger than me. And like, it is coming at it from like, you

know, it's 2022 and like, the first time I watched Sex and the

Cityity was probably like, you know, late night reruns on TV

when I was a kid so right yeah, so it's like a very different

sort of like social lens that you're bringing to it. And so I

think that like just thinking about how like brunch appears

and it like so much of Sex in the City is this sense of like,

selling to you what like what being a woman in your like, late

20s should have been like in New York, and like brunch, and like

brunch felt and like their brunch is felt so sort of, like

important to that because it was this sort of like dish about all

the drama, and like, the food was very much not like the focus

it was just sort of about like the experience and like I don't

know, I think as someone who'd like moved to New York in my

like late 20s Right? It I don't like I that was always like the

image Right, like you'll move to New York and then you'll have

these like the Sex in the City style life. Yeah. And like

that's never you know that. And then I moved to New York, I was

like, I hate going out to brunch, like, everywhere,

everywhere is expensive and the line is long, like I'd rather

just eat at home. And so I think about that a lot just in terms

of this, like, sort of like, the disjointed nature of sort of

like expectations versus reality. Yeah, and like, you

know, I think it is true that like my I do have brunch with

like, my friends and we all gossip and stuff. It is really

wonderful, but it's still not like, at least for me something

that is like a weekly occurrence as it was like for them.

Lucy Dearlove: Although the depiction of New York brunches

was a cultural reset for anyone who even fleetingly watched Sex

and the City. I think in the UK, the options available are more

heavily influenced by a different brunch culture. I

didn't intend for this series to become a love letter to

Australian breakfast, but anyone who's listened to the subscriber

episodes will realize that it did nonetheless, Bre and Lara

both mentioned the influence of Bill Grainger - he of the

eponymous Bills - on brunch culture both in the UK and at

home in Australia.

Bre Graham: I mean, I think there's there's definitely some

Australian that like to say that they you know, we invented

brunch to an extent I think that could be true. I you know, Bill

Granger is the king of the Australian brunch and 100% I

mean, I grew up cooking from his books. He was a big influence my

mum cooked from his books, because we lived away from

Sydney for a long time. And so like Sydney food one of his

first ones, I think that's the book that the ricotta hotcakes

are in, which is like famous, and yeah, they that yeah,

definitely a formative recipe.

Lara Lee: Hmm. I feel like in Sydney and Australia, I should

I grew up in London and I moved there when I was 18. Okay, so

say, Bill Grainger, really pioneered the the great

Australian brunches? You know, I think he invented kind of the

smashed avo on toast kind of movement back in the day. And I

think in Australia because the lifestyle and the weather. It's

very outdoorsy, so cafes will have outdoor seating. And you'd

probably typically say that nine months of the year, it's going

to be warm enough to sit outside in a T shirt. So when you think

of, I guess antipodean cuisine, it is, you know, it celebrates

fresh produce, you know, because Australia is, well, obviously an

island, so an amazing seafood scene. So you might often find

seafood finding its way into brunch menus as well. And we're

going beyond your kind of smoked salmon here we're talking, you

know, like bagels with prawns on them. And, you know, beautiful

kind of gin-cured maybe like snapper is finding its way into

your breakfast plate. So there's like different applications. And

also, there's also like beautiful native Australian, I

guess, ingredients that might be incorporated. So the beautiful

finger line, which is like kind of like little, almost like

caviar pills, of like a lime kind of juice will kind of

potentially be on the plate. You might get beautiful macadamia

nuts or whatever it might be. But I think there's a real

celebration of Australian produce at the heart of it. And

it's typically quite, I say that it will keep you full until

dinner, but it still feels like you could still have a surf

afterwards, you can still have an active day so you feel full,

but you don't maybe not in the same way that if I went to a

greasy spoon and and had a kind of Yeah, it's very, heavy

breakfast. You know, like, I might have a nap after that. But

yes, this is a brunch that does not need a nap.

like 2223

Lucy Dearlove: That's a real like, formative time.

Thea Everett: I loved it so much. And like all my friends

are still really miss and close to the breakfast.

Lucy Dearlove: Yeah, so I was gonna ask you about this because

I had seen that I was sort of aware that you'd lived in

Thea Everett: Yeah cos I bang on about it all the time.

Australia.

Lucy Dearlove: But in a nice way, in a way this is obviously

like important to you. So yeah, talk to me about Australian

breakfast.

Thea Everett: Yeah, so they're just amazing. But I think it has

changed since when I left that I think young people don't

seem....my friends my age don't seem to go out for breakfast as

much in the same way. I think maybe economic reasons.

Lucy Dearlove: I think it's a bit 'cost of living'

Thea Everett: Yeah, I think and I think they're just a bit like,

that's not It's not cool. It's not what we do anymore. But like

it was I loved it at the time. Like I'd go every weekend when I

lived there. I'd go with my family or with friends and just

like have something like I worked as a dishie. What would

you call that dishwasher?

Lucy Dearlove: Pot washer?

Thea Everett: Pot washer, yeah. Dishie is what they'd call it,

yeah, in a breakfast cafe my favourite breakfast cafe. I was

going through a really hard time at the time. So it was it was a

bit of a weird time in my life. But sure, I did get to learn a

lot of cool shit like how to make the best omelettes in the

world.

Lucy Dearlove: I can't quite explain to you why I was really

drawn to the idea of breakfast as something to explore in this

series. I think one of the things that I find really

interesting about it is how private is; it's probably the

most private meal most of us eat. It's not often a meal that

we share with people we don't live with. It's not often a meal

that I personally post on Instagram. Unless I have

deviated from the norm and I'm eating something more aesthetic.

Most of us don't eat in the morning at all, which is

something I can't relate to at all as I'm an absolute nightmare

if I haven't eaten before I leave the house. But my muesli

habit, my routine of breakfast, ingrained, though it is is one

that leaves me somehow unsatisfied. I'm puzzled why my

go-to breakfast is ended up being broadly sweet. Even though

I don't really have a sweet tooth. It's also very dairy

heavy in a way that I feel uncomfortable about. I think

there's a lot of other things I would prefer to eat for

breakfast. You know, eggs on toast, something lovely on rice,

a bowl of congee with chicken and some chili oil, they would

all be preferable, really. But I'm too lazy or too disorganized

or it feels logistically impossible to make these

breakfasts happen on a regular basis. I'm also kind of

fascinated by the health culture around muesli and other oat

based breakfasts. They feel like something that comes from a

real, like, ancient culture of grains, when of course that's

not true. They were I think muesli was invented in like 1900

by a Swiss doctor. You know, it's all marketing, and I feel

kind of weird about the fact that I've been so firmly sucked

into it. And I found harmony in the conversations I had with

other people while making the series. Other people's breakfast

habits seem to clash with how they eat and cook other meals

just as mine do. Thea confessed to me that at the time of her

speaking, she had never even written a breakfast recipe,

though I am delighted to say that that is no longer the case,

as she recently shared a recipe for breakfast, Peter on what's

your cooking fear? In my honor, no less, which I'm thrilled

about. Maybe I should rethink what I have for breakfast, but

also, maybe I'm overthinking it. I think I want to leave you with

Bettina whose approach to breakfast I think is the one I'm

most want to emulate. I'm gonna let Bettina have the last word.

Breakfast can be beautiful, elaborate, luxurious. But

sometimes they can also just be an egg.

Bettina Makalintal: So yeah, on the weekend, it's actually a

little bit more simplified, if not a little bit more sort of

like, like often we'll just make sort of like rice and an egg and

like put a bunch of really good sauces on it. Yeah, I mean

weirdly the like single most successful thing I ever posted

on Tik Tok was was literally just like an egg on rice. It

like literally just an egg on rice with I think like chili

crisp at the end

Lucy Dearlove: thanks so much for listening to this episode of

Lecker. And thanks very much to all my guests who took the time

to talk to me about and even in some cases cook me breakfast.

Thanks to Bre Graham, whose cookbook Table for Two is out

now. Thanks to Bettina Makalintal whose work you can

find on Eater and on TikTok of course, thanks to Gurdeep Loyal

whose book Mother Tongue is out now. Thanks to Dan Hancox and

Dr. Kasia Tee who you can listen to regularly on the brilliant

podcast Cursed Cbjects. Thanks to Thea Everett, you can

subscribe to What's That You're Cooking, Thea? on

substack...highly recommend you do. And finally thanks to Lara

Lee, whose new book A Splash of Soy is out now. If you'd like to

hear those longer conversations about breakfast with all of the

people above, you can sign up as a paid subscriber to support

lecker on Apple Podcasts, Patreon. And also now on

substack. Links are in the show notes and any paid subscribers

who are listening here. Thank you so much for your continued

support. Music is by Kevin MacLeod at Incompetech I will be

back in your feed with another episode very soon. Thanks for

listening