Victor Sweeney 0:00 Apparently the Women on YouTube think I'm quite attractive. And I've been called Death Daddy a number of times.

Tell me if you felt comfortable,

Rich 0:09 I think definitely we'll keep going for the rest of this podcast.

Tom 0:13 If nothing else, there we go.

Rich 0:15 Welcome to another side featuring our guests destiny.

That was the death study. And that is this week's episode with death study himself. Victor M. Sweeney, an American mortician on this week's episode of our dad's died. The M stands for murder.

I mean, more like audition, which would be nominative determinism.

Tom 0:43 Although his name Victor Sweeney kind of evocative of other mortician No, it really is. It's not like sort of Mr. Cook being the vintage baker or Mr. The sausage.

But Mr. Sweeney, is what you would expect.

Rich 1:05 I think we spent a little bit longer with Mr. Sausage. I don't think Mr. Sausage is the local butcher. I think this is the guy that you tell your kids to stay away from.

Tom 1:19 He's Mr. Sausage. It's friendly, but it's also like but yeah, don't get this man.

Rich 1:26 If he offers you some sausage, then please say no.

Tom 1:31 Please do say no. To your kids. Thanks. It's such a confusing manner. To say no. Yeah, really, you really try and freak him out. He's, he's going to talk about a hell of a lot of things which are very, very serious. But we do cry, laugh at several points. He talks about autopsies. He talks about the actual process of an autopsy what that is, and so I'm flagging to you the listener, trigger warning here, right away, he's gonna mention some very, very serious stuff about cadavers, which some listeners may find quite upsetting. This podcast, however, is not one that shiz away from things that are hard to hear. Rather, we hear them and then start laughing very uncomfortably. There's a lot of information that we want to hear from him. But you might not want to so if you don't, if this all sounds a bit too graphic for you, I'm going to drop in the timestamp here of the podcast outro. So you can just jump right to me and rich chatting about nonsense at the end if you'd like to if you'd like us, and you feel you do need to know everything that happens after somebody dies, stick around as the death daddy, Victor M Sweeney gets right into it. The outro begins at 3838. Skip to 3838 for the outro.

Rich 2:56 So the first question, and I'm sure it's one you've been asked a lot. But what is it that made you want to become a mortician? Because it's not your usual?

Victor Sweeney 3:10 Yeah, yeah, I mean, most, I would say most morticians It's a family business, where I would be what's called the first generation funeral director. So I'm just starting off on my own, I guess. And truth be told, I always wanted to be a Catholic priest. That's what I always wanted to be from the time I was a little kid. discern that into high school. And then when I discerned that that's not the case, and I went to Catholic high school, had a bunch of friends who went off to seminary and I didn't. I was like, Okay, great. Now what? You know, like, I don't, I don't really like math. I don't like science that much. I'm not interested in business. And it ended up happening that my godfather gave me a book by a classmate of his who's a mortician poet. Kind of a fun combo. But he wrote a really good book, his name is Thomas Lynch, he wrote a book called The undertaking. It has some memoir, qualities and just, it's a really poetic story of his life and funeral service in a small town. And I read that and I thought, You know what, that is something that I could do it kind of scratches that religious itch. And it puts you in a position where you can take care of somebody and I really thought I could do that. I mean, really, the only thing I'm good at really is talking to people. So I thought that would be a good fit. So yeah, then I just got a job in high school working at a local funeral home and just kind of stumbled into it guys. That's that's how it happens. You just find yourself a funeral director one day.

Rich 4:55 And so when you first when you took this job in high school, did that cause a bit of a stir because Just like other people might have been working at, let's say, Costco or Walmart. And you were like, I'm working in the funeral home.

Victor Sweeney 5:07 Yeah, I'm working. Yeah, it was different. Um, yeah. What was interesting there is that I mean, this is probably the gauntlet as far as I understand it the first week there I just like dinked around clean caskets vacuumed, you know, handed out funeral programmes that really like didn't do anything of value. I was really surprised they're paying me to be there. And then, like, week one, or probably week one went by week two. And then Week Three happened. And the owner is like, hey, Victor, we have had someone die. And we'd like you to sit down on the embalming. Which is not I don't think it's super legal. But at that point, I was kind of thinking, you know, I was thinking this is what I was going to do. And, you know, you kind of just have to do it. So I go back to the prep room, like gown up, and I get there. And I was 18. And it was an 18 year old girl who died in a car crash. Oh, Jesus, and she'd been autopsied. So what that means is that they've they've examined all her organs. So she's cut from the, through the sternum down to the pubic bone. And open. Oh, well, her organs are in a bag. And it's like, yeah.

Rich 6:23 Um, so she's still, like, she's not been like, stitched back up again. She's still

Victor Sweeney 6:27 braid. Wow. And that was, um, so that was awful. Changes me. Yeah. Here's like, here's like, a beautiful girl cut down on the primal life. You know, I'm just like, a teenage guy. And I'm like, you know, this is like, this is your first experience with us. And you have to like it for anybody who hunts if you've ever seen like a deer gutted. I don't know if you've ever done that sort of thing. But it's, it's just, it's like, so close to the same thing. It's scary. Just open open chest cavity, you can see like, the backside of the ribs. And like her, you know, they kind of open up and like her breast kind of like, flops over it was just terrible. And so yeah, so that was that was my first time seeing a dead body. And that was just absolutely awful. Yeah. And after that, then the next day, I was like, you know, I came home and my parents were like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna be fine. Everyone, like, don't talk to me. Go sit by myself for a while, just like, think over what the hell I'm doing with my life. And then the next day, I sat in on another and it was an infant.

Tom 7:38 Oh, God, mate. So after

Victor Sweeney 7:42 that, um, you know, it got a lot easier. But man, I yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't I don't know if anybody ever had a worse introduction to that than me. But I figured if I could do that, like anything else is going to be okay.

Rich 8:02 Yeah, yeah, you've really done the hardest bit first, although, I mean, again, it surprises me that you'd have that experience and then go. This is what I want to do with my life. Yeah, because well, I guess that's sort of a make or break moment. For a lot of people that would be you'd see that and you go, I never ever want to go anywhere near that again. But

Tom 8:23 it feels to me like gamblers dilemma. At that point, you're down so much already. It's like you have to see it for as a full career. Or, or otherwise, what did you witness those scenes for?

Victor Sweeney 8:35 That's right. You're gonna be scarred, you may as well put it to good use. Yeah. Yeah. So that's yeah, so that was kind of my first experience with that. But I mean, really, the, you know, you always have to keep the end in mind, right? There's the means there's all the terrible things that a person in my position has to do, are these terrible to anybody else, but me, and at this point, I'm kind of used to it. But there's always the end in mind that, you know, there's some family out there who's going to benefit from this. And so you're kind of taking that upon yourself. And looking forward, you know, while while you're kind of doing the gruesome tasks, you sometimes you sometimes have to do and it's not all. I mean, and that's the thing to remember to guys. It's not always gruesome. I mean, sometimes it's, you know, the hardest part of your day is working with the extremely needy family or the people who just can't make happy. That's, that's sometimes the hardest part. So I don't know. Yeah, sometimes the actual body work is kind of a break because you can do a thing you're good at and you're not doing it in front of people or being criticised.

Rich 9:43 Yeah, they start criticising you at that point, then you've got bigger problems. Yeah, exactly. It's not me talking. Yeah. So when you started when you were you were 18? Yeah. And then what's the training process for becoming like, I was gonna say a full blown mortician. Sure, so

Victor Sweeney 10:00 I I'm living in Minnesota, which out of the 50 states is probably the highest, probably the highest requirement for a funeral director, mortician of anywhere in the country. So in a hot moment, yeah. I don't know. You know, and I was living in North Dakota at the time, but I figured, you know, I went to school in Minnesota. So I got my licence in both states figuring I had some flexibility. But so in Minnesota, you have to have, you're required to have a bachelor's degree in mortuary science, okay. We're the equivalent of a bachelor's degree in mortuary science. And then you have to pass the state board exam, and the national board exam. The state board exam actually being harder than the national. And then you have like a year of internship or so. And then, and then you're on your own. So yes, four years of school, one on one, I think it's like a year and a half of internship. You have, yeah, all these tests you have to take. So it's, it's a lot.

Tom 11:05 Is that easy? I didn't like no part of me expected you were gonna say, Yeah, you gotta take exams. It's not an industry, which makes you think, yeah, there's examinations.

Rich 11:17 Although, to be fair, Tom, I imagined Do you would need something I can't I don't think if someone turns up and just go, can I go in and cut up the dead bodies? They're like, No, we're gonna call the police. That's not allowed. You have to?

Tom 11:31 I don't know. It just feels like it doesn't feel like there's a qualification, which is What's so weird about it. Because obviously, there should be clearly that, from what

Victor Sweeney 11:39 I understand in Colorado, which has the Laxus laws. In contrast, all you have to do is hang up a shingle saying Victor Sweeney, funeral director and boom, you're right, Sophie, interesting. You know, it'd be a lot easier. But I don't know if I'd want to die in Colorado.

Rich 12:00 Nobody wants to die in Colorado.

Victor Sweeney 12:02 I mean, nobody wants to die. Let's be honest. Yeah.

Rich 12:05 Everybody comes to Minnesota today, that's the place to do it. Yeah. And I, if I was gonna die, I'd want to do it, knowing that you would be dissecting my body afterwards, as the daddy of death.

Victor Sweeney 12:17 That is, that is an honour. Yeah, that's you should you should probably put that in your will or something. If you go on hospice, transport me to the United States in the Minnesota please.

Rich 12:26 Well, that's the plan for my when I do go is I want to make everything as difficult as possible for everyone. So this is another thing to add to my funeral bucket list is

Victor Sweeney 12:36 Scratch, scratch that don't don't make a will.

So, so, so tell me, you know, this is one thing that's interesting about I know a lot of things, I guess, that are interesting about my job. But one thing that's interesting is if I meet a person on the street, or like, especially when I was in college, if I meet a person at a party or something, and they found out, they find out you're a funeral director, the first thing people do is they go, Hey, my grandma died. And this is what it was like, or I went to a funeral once and it this happened. But so I actually am kind of curious. So what is your experience? You know, your your dad's died? And what, 10 years ago in your 20s?

Rich 13:18 Well, my dad died seven years ago, Tums was much more recent, but a year and a half, two years now.

Tom 13:24 Approaching two years. Yeah,

Victor Sweeney 13:26 I'm sorry. That sucks.

Tom 13:28 Well, you know, I mean, it does but you really just stop feeling anything after a while. So second, really?

Victor Sweeney 13:38 Well, what was what was your experience, Tom, and then we'll get to you. Oh, we had

Tom 13:42 a good one. We had a lovely funeral. Lovely. We got a bloke who was a sort of, I don't know, maybe a comedian slash entertainer. Not really sure what his vibe was. But he he came and he did a sort of, I guess, funeral patter. Like, have prepared slight comedy funeral thing where you would tell him facts. And so he would do his light thing. And he would go and of course, we all know John loved Liverpool, and then carry on a bit of a go. But Johnny loved David Bowie, didn't he? Yeah. Would go Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 14:26 Which was a man started.

Tom 14:29 Serious, serious fat. That was the playout music of my dad's funeral star. Madariaga it's pretty sweet. I think that song I'm not sure. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. So it was nice. It was nice. It was a sort of lighthearted affair if you like.

Victor Sweeney 14:46 That's cool. Yeah, that that reminds me I probably my least favourite but kind of funny. You know, if you're in the background. funeral sermon, happens when the minister doesn't know who the person is. And they do something like this. They Uh, well, I didn't know, Roger, but I do know Jesus and they just break into it that way that Yeah, that's probably my favourite. It's just like the perfect cop out. You don't have to like worry about actually knowing anything about the person. You just you just go for it.

Rich 15:18 Lovely, lovely. It reminds me a lot of what you see comedians on stage sometimes who haven't got a segue into the next bit, and they will go. Oh, yeah. Anyway, speaking of my girlfriend, she's from Essex. And I was in Essex the other day, very good, their shop and now we're talking about shops. And it's a real man called and I like the fact that Reverend Vickers or people who give sermons will do exactly the same thing.

Victor Sweeney 15:44 Yeah, yeah. Human, just just a natural human experience just winging it all the time. Yes.

Rich 15:48 fleet of foot. And they've always got Jesus to fall back on. That's the good thing. In any conversation that don't reminds me of Jesus, actually. And we're off. Yeah, you

Victor Sweeney 16:02 don't really that that actually fine, fine segue for you, Richard. I can I can see that working.

Tom 16:09 I speak to Jesus who of course died for our sins, which your dad died as well. What was that?

Rich 16:16 He did, he? Well, the thing that I was going to ask you about Victor is that my dad had to have an autopsy. Because he died. very suddenly, we didn't know what Avi was a very healthy man who woke up L one day and then died three, four hours later. And he had, it took a couple of weeks, but he was, I guess, diagnosed, or they found out that he had meningococcal septicemia, which is what had killed him. Because and you get the rash with meningitis normally on his skin was he had the rash on his organs. So when they opened him up, his organs were covered in a rash. So what would the process be of that? If somebody came in? And you didn't know? Is that something that you would deal with? If

Victor Sweeney 17:03 so, yeah, so I'm not a medical, so there's like the medical examiner or the coroner who's going to actually do the autopsy. But my primary job, as far as that's concerned, is is taking you know, what I received from medical examiner, which has been degrees of being put back together and actually making them whole.

Rich 17:25 Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 17:27 Which is, which is interesting

Tom 17:29 thing, a nice way of putting it. Thank you.

Victor Sweeney 17:31 That's, that's, that's what they pay me for us to just couch couch things in language that isn't offensive. Yeah. Yeah. But no, it's, it's really, it's something because your typical autopsy, like I mentioned earlier, is going to open a person from you know, about the Adam's apple down to the pubic bone. And then each organ is gonna be taken out in turn examined, you know, written down, they're going to take samples and send them off for biopsy. And then likewise, with the cranium, that's, that's what's always hard for me is that what they do is they'll make an incision on the backside of the head, like, typically kind of year to year. Right. And then then that skin is peeled for it over the face. They they cut the top of the cranium off and lift that off so they can get to the brain and examine the brain as well. So yeah, so for my part, you know, getting the cranium back and making tiny sutures on the top of the head is eyes. Always really tough, because that's not something you want, you know, leaking on the pillow and your loved ones in the casket. Yeah.

Tom 18:36 So does it come back to you? Does the body come back to you like that, like, without saying the flaps around the face? Almost, you know? Yeah, usually they

Victor Sweeney 18:47 pull it back. And then they'll put like maybe a suture to there just to keep everything in place. Same with like, the abdominal cavity, they'll have like four or five sutures, just to make sure everything is together. And then yeah, yeah. So then you have then the viscera, all the organs are in a big bag and just kind of sewn up in the, the abdominal cavity. So one of the things that I have to do is, of course, bacteria are natural in the abdominal, you know, in your gut, and they just go haywire after you die. So that's probably my least favourite part is treating the viscera because you have to you have it in this bag, and you put it in a big bucket and you have to like, pull everything out and like, slice it with a scalpel. And then like mix it with embalming fluid to make sure like you kill everything that's in there. Yeah. And that's I hate that. I

Tom 19:35 believe that's your job. That's seems to make sense that that's part of what you do. Do you know what I mean? Like, that shouldn't be in there. If you've also doing all the really nice talk to people stuff. What you're also doing that?

Victor Sweeney 19:47 Yeah, it's not necessarily great fair, is it?

Rich 19:52 It feels like it should be two jobs, doesn't it? Sort of backroom on the front facing? Well, I

Victor Sweeney 19:57 you know, so in some states they have Like two licences you have like the morticians licence to do the backroom part and you're the funeral directors licence to the front. And I guess in my situation I'm in a pretty small town so yeah, you just do it all. You just do it.

Rich 20:13 Yeah. Yeah. So how how desensitised I mean, obviously very desensitised. But to seeing, for instance, when was the last time that you saw a dead person?

Victor Sweeney 20:24 Well, right now.

Rich 20:27 Yeah, right now.

Victor Sweeney 20:28 Yeah, I'm actually I'm just set up in the Funeral Chapel. And oh, gasket. I'm just in the back hanging out. But there's just in the other room. There's a casket. Oh, sweet. Oh, we

Rich 20:37 soak up full of gas. I did.

Victor Sweeney 20:39 Yeah, I did like makeup today. And yeah, no, it's I don't know. It's yeah, it's like, it's so normal. It's really funny. I remember my dad asking me. He's like, do you ever have like dreams? You have dreams about dead bodies? I'm like, Well, yeah, like, yeah, doesn't everybody have dreams about work? You know, like, you show up to work without your pants or something? For me. It's like, you I show up to work. And there's like, somebody I forgot to put in the casket or like, putting on clothes on someone. Like that's like, those are like the things that I like panic dream about. Yeah. But yeah, it's just so normal. You

Tom 21:16 know, I like funeral director anxiety dreams. And I want to get into that a bit more. Yes, I had one where? Because so you've had one where the body's not in the casket? I really liked that a lot. Have you ever had one where? It's like, they wake up? While they're not dead? Actually.

Victor Sweeney 21:34 I never have I have Yeah, I'm maybe I should I've been talking about it. I mean, maybe maybe it'll like it'll happen tonight. I'll let you know. But no, I've always been pretty confident about that. Here's a story you might like. I had a there is a gentleman in town. And there were rumours for like two weeks before he died that he passed away. He was pretty well known for these rumours kept swirling that that this gentleman had passed away. And so people be calling us we're like, no, that's not true. No, that's not true. Well, finally passes away one morning at like 3am. So I tried to get him from the hospital. I embalm him prepare his body. And I put a call into his minister just as a courtesy to let her know. And she calls me back. Sunday, Sunday morning. So I step out of church and I take her call, and I was like, hey, you know, so and so passed away. She's like, Well, no, we didn't. That's a rumour. I was like, No, I'm pretty sure. She's like, No, no, it's just a rumour. It's been going around as like, Well, no. As we argued back and forth, you know, me trying to be as gentle as I could. Yeah. And finally, I was like, pastor is like, if he wasn't dead last night, I killed him. Because I drained all of his blood out of his body. I guarantee you he is deceased. And she's like, oh.

Rich 22:51 Yeah, really? Okay, so I hope that wasn't a rumour. Because if it was, he's definitely dead.

Victor Sweeney 22:58 Yeah, yeah. So that was Yeah, I don't know. I've never had to fight someone so hard. Like, if anybody knows he's to see it's like, yeah, I'm here to tell you. It's it's me.

Rich 23:10 And how do you ever get freaked out? At all? When you're sort of alone in a room with a dead body? Do you have to believe in

Tom 23:19 some pretty calm here right now? Yeah.

Rich 23:25 From early. Yeah, I speak.

Victor Sweeney 23:28 Now I get kind of scared sometimes. It's mostly when I'm working at night. You know, you're working at two in the morning. And it's like, everything should be perfectly quiet in the funeral home and we are building was built in the 1890s. You know, it's really old. And so creaks and groans like old buildings do. But I that's like, that's what scares me. It's not the it's not the dead body so much. It's like, you're really alone. Like, I'm really, really alone. And I'm here at night. And that that kind of freaks me out a little bit.

Rich 23:56 Yeah. I can imagine. Of course, your your building was built in 1890. Didn't seem right. If you had a funeral home, that was like a new build.

Victor Sweeney 24:04 Yeah, that would be like, Yeah, but by all rights, it should be haunted. Yeah, yeah. So that's so haunted. Yeah. So that's just being like so alone. Yeah. Yeah. People like, oh, you ever talk to you know, talk to the bodies like, no, it's just, like, enjoy the quiet. I don't know. But yeah, at night. It's scary. Yeah, I get kind of jumpy.

Rich 24:28 Are you often working at night then? Yeah, yeah. Do you have to work when they die? Yes. I imagine quite a limited timeframe.

Victor Sweeney 24:38 Yeah, I mean, every, every hour you're waiting, you know, the body is just breaking itself down. Yeah. So yeah, like last week. I had a desk call at 1130 at night. I got dressed, put my tie on got in the car. Drove at this was the hospital was a couple hours away. So I drove two hours, picked it up got I went home and slept for like an hour and a half and then went back to work. So I like, you know, work from 11 to 11pm to 6am. And then like started my day. Yeah, yeah, cuz sometimes

Rich 25:13 if I'll get work on a Friday, like an email will come in, and I think I'll do that on Monday. I'll do that Monday after now. Wait, I guess you don't really have that option. If someone dies. You can't sort of go well, I've got a weekend planned. So

Victor Sweeney 25:29 yeah, just just leave mom at home. I'm kind of busy.

Rich 25:32 Yeah. How big she freezes.

Victor Sweeney 25:36 Your free. Yeah, yeah, that gets interesting. But it's, you know, it is what it is. I mean, at the end of the day, I always, you know, and my wife kind of grouses about it. Because it's, it's hard, you know, like, it's bedtime. Well, sorry, kids. I gotta go work for five hours. Yeah. The, you know, at the end of the day, like, there are people out there clearly who are having a worse day than I am. So, you know, hard to hard to really complain about it. We're like, oh, well, you know, so and so just lost their dad, you know?

Rich 26:08 Yeah. I mean, don't don't complain to them. Definitely.

Victor Sweeney 26:12 Yeah. No, I was really. I was really like, kind of doing something.

Rich 26:19 I had plans. Interesting. Talk

Tom 26:21 to me, because, you know, it really feels like you both in terms of how you appear and what you're talking about. But you're very, a lot further along in life than I am. Just just, I mean, you're younger than me. But you. You have what I would record. Describe as an adult job. That's, that's an adults job that you know, I mean, you've got a wife. You've got kids, you're wearing a tie. You know, like,

Victor Sweeney 26:52 you can wear a tie. You could do that for the job you want.

Rich 27:00 Hi, he does look stupid. It's only to be fair, doesn't mean

Tom 27:03 I've seen it. So our T shirts were dad's funeral of a jacket over it. I could not because it wasn't

Victor Sweeney 27:09 like a like a tuxedo t shirt.

Tom 27:11 It was say it was a football shirt t shirt. Okay, so I sort of sneaked it, but I couldn't wear a tie. No. So

Rich 27:18 it looks like he's on a lead. It's weird. It's a long time.

Tom 27:23 That's my ties, like three metres long. That's the problem, I suppose. Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 27:30 Donald Trump dies, like just hanging down within your legs. Just so

Tom 27:33 loved. What was your thinking? Really? You seem to have it together. But these late nights? Tell them what to tell. Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 27:42 Yeah, there are a lot more fun ways to like have a late night.

Rich 27:47 Yeah, it feels appropriate though. It feels like if you're going to be draining all the blood out of the body, too. Am is the right time to do it. But yeah. If anything is, it's weird to do that at like 10am.

Victor Sweeney 28:00 Yeah. Wants to seem like your work a day job. You know, like, it should be something like special. So yeah, have to stay up all night to do it.

Tom 28:08 Work out then hours wise, how many hours a week he working?

Victor Sweeney 28:12 I don't know. It just varies. I'm, you know, I'm lucky my employer. Um, he grew up doing this. His dad had it before him his dad's dad's uncle had it before him. So it's been this family business. And he's always really respectful like, hey, if we're not busy, just go home. Kind of do. And that's been nice. Because you do you make it up. I mean, six hours in the morning, and then like, a full workday after that, like, you can get up to 40 pretty quick. Yeah. But you just don't know, some weeks. It's like, you know, I'll be lucky if I put in 30 hours just like going on read it at my desk. Yeah, and then and then some weeks, it's like, oh, this is my third 16 hour day in a row. All right, you know, you just don't know.

Rich 28:57 And I mean, cuz sometimes again, just comparing our jobs sometimes I'll get pressure from if things are slow at work, they'll be like yes to be proactive. Do they ever say to you do you want to maybe just go and drive dangerously around

Victor Sweeney 29:12 Go Go Go hide behind a corner in the nursing home.

Tom 29:16 You got KPIs guys we really

Victor Sweeney 29:20 know I don't know and even like an even proactive is like it's it's funny how mundane you know, there's like a certain I don't know, being on the inside. I don't see it. But like, is there a glamour to funeral service? Is it there guys? I don't know. Is it

Rich 29:35 I think there is to an extent I think that it could because you it's very well dressed. You've got the

Tom 29:41 very well past you're well dressed but we're talking top hats. Yeah, sometimes canes that was a lot of ceremony to it in this sometimes. Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 29:51 I want to top hat. I have like, I have a fedora I wear in the winter with my long black coat which I think produces a cool effect. Very Yeah. have had to be better though.

Rich 30:01 Yeah, Fedora sort of gives off more of a magician vibe. And a thought maybe yeah. And that will give people false hope for magician turns off the funeral is even

Victor Sweeney 30:12 better than witch doctor.

Rich 30:13 That's true. Yeah.

Victor Sweeney 30:21 What was what was your? What was your experience with like a funeral home? I don't know much about, like UK funeral service mainly like did you work with a funeral director?

Rich 30:31 We didn't. But just because it was such a sudden, I think I think my mom had quite a few meetings with with a funeral home. I wasn't really involved in them. I just sort of just came along on the day showed up. And it was, I mean, I dreaded the funeral. But when it happened, that was a nice thing in a strange way. Weird. It was very odd. And it was raining a lot which felt right. Feels like it shouldn't be raining at a funeral.

Victor Sweeney 31:03 Yes, absolutely.

Rich 31:04 So I imagine that's a bit of a ball. Like if you're like one of the people digging the grave. You don't want Yeah, you

Victor Sweeney 31:11 don't want to be that guy. But if you're in my position, it's nice to see like the whole effect, you know, pan out before you would not have to do as much.

Rich 31:19 Yeah, yeah, it feels feels like the right weather for a funeral.

Victor Sweeney 31:24 Do you do you think and maybe I'll ask both of you this. Here's a question for you. Do you think you would have benefitted by making the funeral arrangements? Like do you think you would have liked to have been there?

Rich 31:36 Well, I think you were involved. You're not on?

Tom 31:38 I was. Yeah, I was. I was involved. It was weird. Actually, the guy Civ watch. Did you watch any wrestling back in the day? Yeah. You know, pallbearer? Yeah. Isn't familiar is in googling base, the Undertaker's assistant who was who sort of held this urn and walked around his big lad. And he looks, he looks like a funeral director. Well, this guy who came round looked more like a funeral director than anybody who's ever lived before. Like, it's like, he looked at pallbearer, and went, Yeah, that is the look that I will carry with me for the rest of my life. And so it was sort of really funny, initially, because he had the sort of similar moustaches that. Always kind of funny for me. But looking back on it at the time, as well, it was sort of immediately amusing like, this. What a weird cross section of my life. And, and yeah, but but the actual chatting was very, very strange. I mean, I'm actually interested in this, this was what I wanted to get into, because there was a lot of upselling factors, a lot of upselling. You know, you're sure you want this cuff in because, you know, we do this lovely wicker one, we do this lovely, whatever, one, you know, oh, well, we can play this song. But if, of course, if you want us to play five songs, that's an extra 20 pounds, you know, it's all that kind of businesses, a lot of real transaction going on there. It was, it felt, and I maybe it was being a bit harshly because of course, you know, that's from our side of this, you know, when we're doing this,

Victor Sweeney 33:14 you're only freshly grieving.

Tom Gerken 33:17 But it felt a lot like it was like, Well, if you really loved him, then you'd spend a few more grand on this. Do you know what I mean? It felt I hate that guy.

Victor Sweeney 33:30 Know that. That's one thing that I'm really cognizant of, because you hear about these things happening, and maybe they happen in real life, you know, pallbearers trying to sell you the sweet casket? No, I, I just I'm not interested in that, you know, like, a box is a box and urn as an urn. You know, like, and that said, like, if a family wants something nice, like, I'm not gonna say no, like, you'd have to have a wide range of stuff. Because some people, like they liked doing that, you know, like, people's people's love, like love languages, gift giving, right? You know, it's like, the person who does that, like, buys a super nice casket, and they don't think anything of it, and they think that's good, and it makes them feel good. And like, I'm cool with that, that's fine. When I mean, I like I talk people down, you know, especially if it's like, you know, they're like, things are gonna be tight. It's like, Guys, let's figure out how to like, keep in budget. And I'll help you do that. And we'll cut corners here and there to make it work. Well, and that's the thing, like, if you're on my side of the table, let's say, you know, ways you can cut corners while still creating the effect that you want. Or maybe not the effect I want but the effect the family wants, like, like, yeah, we can shave off 50 bucks here, we can shave off $100 Here, we can skimp on this, but you know, still make it look nice. So there's I mean, there are ways you can do that sort of stuff and, or maybe it's just a small town thing, again, where everybody has to trust you. You can't really take advantage of people because everybody knows you. They know where you live. Like your house, if you'd screw up, you know, I don't know, I can't stand that sort of crap. And I hate that. Funeral Directors get that really nasty reputation, I just can't

Tom 35:12 remember it very vividly because there was this. In the UK, sort of every year, we have this thing called the Argos catalogue, which is like this, where's this guy when it comes around once a year, and it's basically this big department store, which sells basically everything. And it's this massive book, and you know, you flip through and all the different sections and all the different things we buy. And I just remember, he brought this big folder and in it was this one book occupying this massive folder. And it was like the Argos catalogue of death. It was everything you could possibly have in a funeral was in this one book all priced out. But

Victor Sweeney 35:51 flip, just tell me when to stop exactly.

Tom 35:55 Just choose what you want. It was very strange. Is it? Like do you have something like that? Do you have a big catalogue of

Victor Sweeney 36:01 we we kind of do. I don't like to use it. So I like when I'm planning a funeral with somebody I have, like, basically what I've done is I make a checklist, essentially, with places for pricing. And then I only put on there what a family needs. So like I don't I give them the price system. Like here you go, you can look through it if you like, here are the things that are relevant. And then on my checklist, I only have just the things you need, because then you don't have to look through all the other garbage that you don't need. And yeah, that yeah, I'm not into that whole thing. Or, like, here's a book of every casket we can like we have available, like nobody wants to make that many decisions. You know,

Tom 36:42 it's impersonal as well. And and you come across as someone who's really invested in making it quite a personal thing, which which is a good obviously a good thing. Well,

Victor Sweeney 36:52 you try I mean, there's Yeah, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's some distinction, you guys, I don't know what it is, between making things personal and like personalising, if you know, because there are a lot of funeral homes it like personalise everything, and you're like, Oh, Dad, love fishing. Let's put up frickin fishing pole and everything. Like I hate that I'm not

Tom 37:15 very good a fish. Yeah, yes. Yeah, we've

Victor Sweeney 37:18 got to put his hat on because he loves fishing you know? I'm not into that so much. Like that's all well and good if you'd like that sort of thing but I mean just trying to be a person reaching out to other people you know, trying to get creative. Like that's cool. I like that. But yeah, that whole like department store mentality they'd like there was a funeral home chain because those exist. Funeral Home chain he wanted to hire me and they have increased profit sharing depending on your sales right your casket. I don't want to be a part of anything

Tom 37:54 but actually is KPIs for death.

Victor Sweeney 38:00 Commission, you know, on what you schlep I'm not into that.

Rich 38:05 Could Well, that's good. It's good that there's honour in in the directing industry. How long can we still you thought today, but I don't want to talk too much. Oh, perfect. Well, I find that was great.

Victor Sweeney 38:24 Make a pot of coffee, probably.

Tom 38:26 Yeah, this is well, this was all the preamble there's none of this will make it

Rich 38:30 and let's get into the real stuff.

Tom 38:38 So Viktor actually spoke to us for quite some time, he told us some very interesting things. We decided to go back to him and a couple of weeks, where he's going to talk to us about his own personal experience of grief. So that is something to get excited for. It's such a weird thing, because we're always like foreshadowing and going get ready for this later episode where we get really upset.

Rich 39:04 If you want to hear about a massive personal tragedy that that money disliked had, then

Tom 39:09 oh, hey, you like suffering? We got a bit more where that came from? Oh, my God as a bit in that podcast where we asked him I think you asked him. When was the last time he saw a dead body? And his response was there's one opposite.

Rich 39:27 Yeah, it was essentially another guest on the podcast. Guest he was recording the entire thing with a corpse. Yeah, in the same room as him. Yeah.

Tom 39:42 And I mean, it makes sense that you would get that used to death being around you obviously. But at the same time, that's that is getting very used to it. You know, it's to use isn't it? You have to feel like there's there are levels.

Rich 39:57 I mean, I think imagine how much because he's the only guests you've ever had, that if midway through the podcast, he went, by the way, there's a corpse in the room with me. It wouldn't be. So you need to call the police about

Tom 40:12 the police involved. It was yeah, very, very, very bizarre. I also wanted to pick you up on just something you said in there. I don't know if we're doing if we're planning on doing an hour dad's died book of quotes. But if we do, I think describing to am as the time to drain was. I think that's a real because I think you don't drain it three in the afternoon.

Rich 40:42 You don't do? Do you would feel inappropriate?

Tom 40:45 It would feel wrong. It's also like, you never know what starting their day with a drain. If you didn't listen to the podcast, very confusing for you. If you did, maybe sorry.

Rich 40:59 Sorry to bring it back up again.

Tom 41:04 would be insane.

Rich 41:05 And that's what they say in the mortuary business. 90 entrain. Don't be insane.

Tom 41:10 But drain it to I am. Amen. Yes, church in the church, it does work. So I wanted to jump on a couple of these incredible reviews that we've had, because we've had some absolute Barnstormers in if you would like us to read your review on air, please do simply send it to the if you'd like us to read your review on air, you have to leave it I mean, it's as simple as that if you if you want us to read it, you have to make it rich, or that's

Rich 41:43 one of our sayings tell them you have to leave it.

Tom 41:47 Give them three different ways they can leave a review for this.

Rich 41:52 Oh, well, of course. First and foremost, go on Apple podcasts poppers five stars, leave a nice review. We'll read it out. Unless you don't want to do in which case we won't, but do make that clear. Second way is you can go on to a website called Apple podcasts. Correct. And you can leave they have like a star rating, leave five stars there and you can leave a little review on that as well. The third way and this may shock many of you is Apple podcasts. It's apple podcasts,

Tom 42:26 Apple podcasts, Apple podcasts. It's because Apple podcasts are a new and noteworthy section, which I'm very keen on getting us in because it'll massively massively you know, put this podcast into the eyes of so many more people. So she thought it good enough to listen to this much of it then I mean, you know, please just just leave it in the bag, but and I won't do what I did on last week's episode where I really tore into one of the reviews for bad English. I promise. Actually rich. Did you listen to the last episode? I did? Yeah. Oh, see, you know, okay, good. Yeah.

Rich 43:03 And I was against it. I just wanna

Tom 43:09 I thought, I thought when I did the intro, I was like, Richard, like we do this. And then when I did the outro, it's like, well, you would never let me do this. You'd be like, well, as we record that.

Rich 43:18 Yeah. But sadly, I mean, I wasn't there. And if you're not there in Liverpool, yeah, exactly. But we have got some nice reviews this week.

Tom 43:26 Yes. Really, really lovely one from Anil grant. He's left us five stars on Apple podcasts. Funny, sad, thought provoking, possibly life affirming. Should be hyphenated. Tom and rich have great Mehta chemistry, and it's a pleasure listening to them bouncing off each other and finding the lighter moments that had me chuckling on the train. I've listened to both episodes currently available in one morning, and can't wait for the next amazing. There's none of the pointless filler rambling you get on some podcasts or sag when you start looking at your phone. It's very tight to get natural, hilarious conversation highly recommended. That is

Rich 44:05 really, that's the kind of review you want to get.

Tom 44:10 That's as good as it gets. So thank you so much. It's such a lovely thing for you to say.

Rich 44:15 Thank you very much. No grant, and I couldn't

Tom 44:18 like I couldn't be more critical of him. But I'm trying to be a lighter personality. Why don't insult the people leaving us reviews. I feel

Rich 44:25 like when you're literally begging people to leave a review. There is a famous saying about beggars and whether or not they can be choosers,

Tom 44:35 yeah, directly insulting to those that give them the thing they're begging for, in fact, yeah.

Rich 44:41 So to beg people for and then start really slagging off the review is bold,

Tom 44:47 but life affirming should be hyphenated, but other than that, it was a lovely review and thank you so much for it. Rich.

Rich 44:53 Yes. And we also got a lovely review on Instagram, which is another way that you can leave a review but That doesn't count just

Tom 45:03 you have to live it on Apple podcasts. But obviously if you do an Instagram story, so everyone you know is going to see that then that's telling someone about the show. And obviously, we want that as well. So that's like the author love that. It's not a review. And technically, we shouldn't be reading it out here. But we're giving you the benefit of the doubt this time. But in the future, please leave us a five star review. on Apple podcasts.

Rich 45:31 We are once again proving that beggars can indeed and can in fact, be quite, quite picky. But thank you this was from cat Whelan, weightlifting, on Instagram, who left a really nice review and said, came across the other side podcast yesterday. I'm so glad this is here in the open. It's raw, accurate, but also very funny. Something that's needed for a world that is largely grief illiterate, was nice to be able to relate and not feel alone in my experiences. Thank you. Well, thank you cartwheel and weightlifting, that was a really nice thing to see. And hear wasn't on Apple podcasts, but otherwise, really,

Tom 46:12 genuinely warms my heart. Absolutely nothing for our listener numbers in terms of getting us towards new and noteworthy. However, if someone she knows listens, I mean, you know, we're

Rich 46:24 fun also, just, I mean, one of the main reasons we started doing this was that people might feel less alone. And so it's doing that, whether it's new and noteworthy or not. It means something Tom does.

Tom 46:42 Okay, I think that's basically probably a good point enough for us to wrap up this week. If you liked this week's episode, and you'd like to find more of us, you can find articles that I write on the BBC News website, and I'll pop up across BBC output from time to time chatting about technology. And if you'd like rich, you might even be able to see him in person.

Rich 47:03 Yeah, I'm going to be in Edinburgh in August for the festival between the sixth and the 19th of August. I'll be doing my show. Look who loves me, which is a work in progress show. So I'll be trying out lots of new ideas, some of which will be good, and some of which will be brilliant. But ya know, look forward to it. So if you're in Edinburgh, please do look it up. Look me up. If you've got any dead dad, chat. I'll be happy to have a little chat afterwards. I'd love to hear from some of you in person or see you and maybe kiss you and don't know what

Tom 47:40 that sounds like. So Mr. Sausage would say see next week

Transcribed by https://otter.ai