Mary (00:00:01) - They say we manifest things and I think we really do, because I was really desperately searching for something to come my way that would say, “This is the arrow. This is the road we're gonna take.”

Man (intro) (00:00:21) - Welcome to Life’s a Beach…and Then You Die. From personal growth and self-discovery to challenges and victories, we discuss it all. Join us as we dive into the extraordinary stories of ordinary people… all the way to the end.

Julie Ellis (00:00:41) - I am Julie Ellis and I'm excited to share the story of Mary Chestnut. Mary is an exceptional woman and a makeup artist who's had some very inspiring experiences in her life. She comes from a family of Italian immigrants and is very proud of her heritage. From a young age, she exhibited remarkable tenacity and a strong desire to be successful. She'll be the first to tell you she will do whatever it takes to achieve her goals. This perseverance has been demonstrated throughout her life. Her story begins with her parents who left Italy in the 1950s to immigrate to Toronto, Canada.

Mary Chestnut (00:01:19) - If you travel Italy now, it's nothing like what it was after the war. So my parents decided that they would leave because of the situation, the way it was. I mean, it was just terrible after the war. And they felt like they couldn't give us a future there. (Right.) So they packed up everything they had, sold everything and moved to Toronto because the gates were open. They were basically wanting immigrants to come into work.

Julie (00:01:48) - What can you tell me about their situation in Toronto? Did they even know English when they moved to Canada?

Mary (00:01:55) - No, they didn't. They learned it. They were hard workers. My mother was ironing ties for a factory and my father was in construction. You know, that beautiful city of Toronto — those buildings, you see? (Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) — was built by the immigrants. My uncles, my grandparents. That's what they did. They worked hard.

Julie (00:02:17) - Wow. (Yes.) But something in the political climate made your mother want to return —

Mary (00:02:21) - Made my dad, yeah, wanna return. And I was 21 months when they decided they were going back. And we spent five years there.

Julie (00:02:31) - So you weren't even two when you moved back to Italy. So Italian was your first language basically, wasn't it?

Mary (00:02:37) - It was. It was – and to this day, I'm still fluent and so proud.

Julie (00:02:42) - Did they speak English to you at all when you were growing up?

Mary (00:02:45) - No. Not at all.

Julie (00:02:47) - So you were seven when you moved back to Toronto and had to learn English in a whole other culture.

Mary (00:02:55) - Correct.

Julie (00:02:56) - How was that for you? Tell me about it.

Mary (00:02:59) - Well, it was fun in the home environment, 'cause I had my sister and we had relatives here. But outside of that, in school, it was very intimidating for me because I couldn't really speak the language. I didn't feel welcome. It was just very cold. Except for my teacher, who I remember one day, I was crying; she picked me up and held me in her lap and gave me a carton of milk and just smiled. Until this day I can see her face. And so that sort of changed things for me. And then I became a little bit more relaxed and social and started making friends.

Julie (00:03:47) - What was Toronto like back in the seventies when you were growing up?

Mary (00:03:50) - Oh, it was a fabulous city. Fabulous city. Felt safe everywhere. I remember hitchhiking with my cousins and it was just part of life if you wanted to get somewhere in the city.

Julie (00:04:04) - Right. And how did your parents adapt the second time?

Mary (00:04:08) - Basically, all they did was work. You know, they just worked. Both of them. They left for that reason, to give their kids a better future. And that was just something that they were striving for, which they succeeded.

Julie (00:04:27) - They certainly did succeed at that. Just after high school, Mary was offered an opportunity that would be the beginning of her lifelong career and passion.

Mary (00:04:37) - What happened was, when I graduated high school, I decided I would get a summertime job. And I came upon an ad in the paper, and it was for a new up and coming cosmetic company. It was a makeup company, Visage Cosmetics. And I went to the corporate headquarters. They were looking for someone to do everything. And that's what I love. I just love it when somebody says, “Make this happen,” and then I just start and make it happen. And so I did. I was doing everything from sending out shipments to the stores, to selling the products right there for a discount to creating relationships with these women. And my boss said to me at the time, she said, “You know, I know you're done with high school. Do you know what you're gonna do? Because you're like a perfect fit for us and we don't wanna see you go. Would you please consider staying and going to school? We'll send you to our school.” She had Visage School of Cosmetics. And I said, “Yes, absolutely! Oh my goodness. How appropriate — this is right up my alley!” and off I went. Graduated with honors. And that was my passion.

Julie (00:05:52) - So how old were you when you graduated from that academy?

Mary (00:05:56) - Twenty-one? Twenty, twenty-one?

Julie (00:05:59) - And it was about that time that you got married for the first time. So young.

Mary (00:06:04) - Yes. So young.

Julie (00:06:05) - How did that come about?

Mary (00:06:07) - Now, this is something that goes back to the culture, because coming from an Italian culture, you just didn't leave home to move out when you were 18. That was not done. You left home when you got married. So it was almost like, okay, I'm pursuing my career, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. But I know that, in the back of my mind, I have to also comply with this rule. Which, you know, looking back is so wrong.

Julie (00:06:36) - <laugh> But at the time…

Mary (00:06:37) - But at the time, <laugh> that's the way it went. And I did have a high school sweetheart that I'd been dating. And so we got married and, you know, I had different ideas of what our marriage was gonna be and so did he. And so instead of coming together, we pulled apart. I was trying to build on my career and, I guess, maybe make my parents happy. “Look, Mom and Dad! It worked. You came here. You did. But look, we're really going somewhere. We're doing, we're successful.” And I just don't think that he was ready. I think he was still in the growing up stage. And I just lost total interest. And I was heavily burdened because I knew I had to tell my parents. And that was a heartbreak. I mean, it shattered them.

Julie (00:07:26) - How did that make you feel?

Mary (00:07:28) - It made me feel like, “No. This is my life. This is the rest of my life. So I can't.” There was just a drive in me that said, “Why don't you venture out and leave?”

Julie (00:07:44) - Where do you think that drive comes from?

Mary (00:07:48) - It's something deep. Very deep within me.

Julie (00:07:52) - I think it's something people are born with or they're not. <laugh>

Mary (00:07:57) - Exactly.

Julie (00:07:58) - But certainly your parents being immigrants and pursuing a better life through very hard work had something to do with that.

Mary (00:08:07) - It certainly did.

Julie (00:08:09) - Where did that drive take you from that point?

Mary (00:08:12) - They say, we manifest things. And I think we really do, because I was really desperately searching for something to come my way that would say, “This is the arrow. This is the road we're gonna take.” And sure enough, I was going to the airport to pick someone up and I'm walking across the ramp and along comes his car, almost hits me. And I just looked over, put my hand up and said, “It's okay. Don't worry, it's fine.” And I walked in. I went to the gate and found out that the flight would be two hours late. And along comes the gentleman that almost killed me. He says, “Are you waiting for someone on this flight?” And I said, “Yes.” He said, “Well, so am I, and you know, it's gonna be late. It's like two hours late.” I said, “Yes, I know. What a shame. That's why I got this coffee.” And he said, “Oh, the heck with the coffee. Let's go get a drink.”

Julie (00:09:05) - Oh my gosh.

Mary (00:09:06) - Upstairs, there are all the bars and the restaurants. I said, “Oh! Okay.” And off went my coffee. And there we went.

Mary (00:09:23) - We started a conversation and he was moving into town from Montreal. And we just shared so much. And he was older, had two teenage kids. And was in retail buildout. And he started talking about it. And I thought, “Wow. How amazing. How interesting.” And then he asked me did I know anything about the franchise industry? And I told him, “Well, I'm working for this company and they're gonna eventually franchise.” And that's when it all kind of came together. Two people with the same idea, same mind. So we became really good friends. And one thing led to another, led to another. We started a business. It was amazing. It was amazing. We had our own boat. We called her The Macy's because Macy's, in the end, was our big customer who was building Aeropostales. We basically hit the road building these stores and went from north to south. There were days I'd wake up in New Hampshire, have lunch in Chicago, and then be back in Myrtle Beach or Florida or something. It was an unbelievable life. You didn't even have time to think <laugh> cause it was so go, go, go. And I thrive on that.

Julie (00:10:46) - Should I assume that you were romantically involved with him as a partner as well?

Mary (00:10:51) - We did.Yes. We were. In the end, no, we weren't. We grew apart because he was overseeing one, I was overseeing another build out. We were so busy that we just had separate lives at that point.

Julie (00:11:07) - It's interesting because we meet people for a reason. (Yes.) Or a season. (Yes.) And so many times we take meeting someone, especially if it's someone we're romantically interested in at first, you know, we feel like failures or something when it's over. But that's not how it works and it's not how it's supposed to work. You met him for a very specific reason. And there's no failure in the part of you not winding up together. (Right.) Because you were there for him. He was there for you (for me), you both launched into something that was very fulfilling. (Yes.) Even if you didn't wind up together. (Right.) So I just love that you just see that for what it is. (Yes.) And appreciate it for what it was.

Mary (00:11:50) - And until this day we call each other soulmates!

Julie (00:11:53) - That's amazing.

Mary (00:11:54) - And it's so beautiful.

Julie (00:12:05) - This wasn't the only time in Mary's life where her career and an important relationship converged. Later in her story, another deep friendship led her to major professional success. But as life goes, that part of the story begins where this part ends. It took a devastating blow for Mary to enter the next chapter of her life.

Mary (00:12:30) - I was going nowhere but up, right? I was going up and today we're here, tomorrow we're gonna be here, and then we're gonna move up to here. Who knows where we'll be in 10 years. This is so exciting. Instead it was a complete opposite situation. We just went down all at once. It wasn't gradual. It was all at once. One day we had everything. The next day we had nothing. There was a leveraged buyout of Macy's and they did file Chapter 11 which put the company in Chapter 7.

Julie (00:13:08) - Your company.

Mary (00:13:09) - Yeah. The company that, you know, had the contracts that we worked through. The decision came then — it was 1992 — that I decided, okay, I'm off to Charleston for a green card because I made the decision to stay in Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach at the time was not what it is today, obviously, but it had this beauty about it that is so difficult sometimes to explain. There is a draw. If you are the kind of person that is really in touch with the universe and that you feel you're part of it, it'll draw you here.

Julie (00:13:45) - You were drawn in despite not really having any prospects for work or a career. Why did you stay?

Mary (00:13:53) - I felt my soul was here. I just couldn't — there was like a wall around me — I couldn't leave. And I said, “Well, it doesn't matter. I can make it happen again.”

Julie (00:14:03) - And make it happen, she did.

Mary (00:14:06) - I worked three jobs at one time. I remember the airline company that had Myrtle Beach had started. I was selling advertising for their magazine onboard. I was working the Alabama Theater, getting people off the bus, telling them about the theater, bringing them inside, seating them. And then I would also work for the restaurant, trying to book some events. So I really had to do a lot. I had to juggle so many things.

Julie (00:14:34) - Just to get by.

Mary (00:14:34) - Just to get by.

Julie (00:14:35) - After you lost your business. Wow.

Mary (00:14:36) - But, you know, it's that “whatever it takes” attitude in me that just set in and I made it happen.

Julie (00:14:44) - I love that. In retrospect, what did losing that lucrative business teach you?

Mary (00:14:52) - Just remember that throughout life there is going to be change, no matter what. There's gonna be all kinds of obstacles coming your way. So you pick up, you shake yourself off and you say, “Okay, we can do this.”

Julie (00:15:05) - That is a major theme in your life, right? Perseverance.

Mary (00:15:08) - Perseverance. Don't give up. Just go for it.

Julie (00:15:12) - Adaptation.

Mary (00:15:12) - Adapt. Yes.

Julie (00:15:17) - You moved to Myrtle Beach, settled here. Got your green card, became an American citizen. (Yes, I did.) And it just sounds like you worked your tail off in Myrtle Beach, but you were still passionate about your makeup industry and your artistry there.

Mary (00:15:33) - I was.

Julie (00:15:34) - Where did that take you?

Mary (00:15:36) - Well, Bobby Brown, who was one of my idols in the makeup industry was — she now had her own counters across the country and there was a counter coming to Myrtle Beach. I was just ecstatic. I said, “Oh my goodness, this is mine. This is mine. I'm going in and I'm going to get it.” And I did. And they told me that I couldn't be the manager because there was a gentleman in Raleigh that the position was being given to. I said, “Okay, well no problem. I'll just take a sales position. That's not a problem.” Well, the day before we were officially opening the counter, I got a call from the manager at Belk and they said, <laugh>, “It looks like you're gonna be the manager of the counter. He's turned the position down. He doesn't feel this is a good area for him.” (Wow.) And I was like, “Hip, hip, hooray!” <laugh>

Julie (00:16:29) - Chock up another manifestation. You know how to do it.

Mary (00:16:34) - <laugh> And off we went. Off we went, and oh my goodness, what a fabulous time I had building that counter.

Julie (00:16:42) - And it was while you were at Bobby Brown that your partner and friend Laura came into your life and she becomes really important in your story down the line. How did you two meet at Bobby Brown in the first place?

Mary (00:16:54) - She'd come to the counter, put her hands up to her chin and put her elbows on the counter and said, “I wanna be a makeup artist.” (Aw.) And I just took her in and she went so far with it. She was so great. I mean, we became partners.

Julie (00:17:08) - For how long did you manage the counter at Bobby Brown?

Mary (00:17:11) - For a total of six years. I loved it. I enjoyed every moment of it, but I just felt I had reached the height. I couldn't really do much more. So my partner Laura had gone to Chanel and called and said, “We've lost our manager and I'm trying so hard to get this counter up and do you think you could?” And I said, “Sure, I'll come down.” And five years later we made the number one counter, for that store — Dillards in Myrtle Beach. We were number one in sales.

Julie (00:17:42) - In the country, right? Not just the state?

Mary (00:17:44) - For Chanel, I think. Yeah.

Julie (00:17:46) - Wow. Sounds like you took that Chanel counter to its height just like you did at Bobby Brown. So you and Laura then took a leap and started your own company. Tell us about that.

Mary (00:17:58) - So, Laura said, “You know, there's only one place for you.” And I said, “Yeah, I know.” And I said, “I'm gonna take you with me.” She said, “Well, you know what?” she said, “You start it. You start it, 'cause you know, you're it. But I'm gonna help you with the groundwork. Like, computer, I'm gonna set up a website, I'm gonna do this, and when you get busy — in a year, maybe two — then call me and I'll go with you.” And so we set up a website and about six months in, I was calling her and said, “You're gonna have to quit Dillard's. I'm busy and I can't handle it myself.”

Julie (00:18:38) - You were working on TV shows, commercials, bridal shows, weddings and stuff like that, right here in Myrtle Beach. So what is it about makeup that you love so much?

Mary (00:18:48) - The ability to take a woman, sit her down and say, “You don't have to feel this way if you're unhappy with your looks.” And it's not about changing your look, it's about bringing out your beautiful features, because everyone has that. It's important — first and foremost — for her to feel better. It gives you reassurance about yourself. This is who you are. All you have to do is enhance.

Julie (00:19:18) - And I know you don't only do this for brides or women having headshots done. You provide a really important and lovely service for women who are battling cancer. And you offer them way more than just an eyebrow pencil, right? You actually interject yourself and give them hope and help them appreciate their own beauty.

Mary (00:19:37) - Yes. And that they can look good and feel good about themselves. Just because you're going through this doesn't mean that you can't look like this. You can.

Mary (00:19:49) - And it's easy. It's really easy. It's beautiful. I love what I do, but there's so much more that I'm able to give, that it's a beautiful feeling. Just watching the woman leave my house with this smile like she's feeling so great. And yet she was in tears when she walked in the door and threw her wig off.

Julie (00:20:13) - And what is that process like? How do you do that?

Mary (00:20:17) - Well, the process is: First of all, you're going through this, it's temporary. Staying positive, always positive. And I teach them, basically. “You know, you have great skin, you just need a little moisture. So you don't need to go into foundation; maybe a little tinted moisturizer will do the trick. Your lashes? Well, we're gonna have to go to false lashes. But you know what? I'll tell you, you would've never known what my partner had, was going through it, when we were at the Chanel counter. She wore the wigs. She had false lashes every day. She looked fantastic. You can, too. Watch.” And sure enough — I mean, I've been through that. So that helps me relate to them. Because I watched it. I saw it.

Julie (00:21:13) - Laura, Mary's beloved friend and business partner who had been with Mary during her Bobby Brown days and her time at Chanel, bravely battled cancer. And sadly passed away in 2020.

Mary (00:21:26) - She was very compromised because she had breast cancer and lymphoma. We lived through that the whole time. We were building up this counter. And I'm not sure if she was one of the first covid patients to go. We don't know because it was so new. It was just January of 2020.

Julie (00:21:48) - Oh no. How old was she when she passed?

Mary (00:21:51) - She was probably 55. (Oh wow.) Yeah. Yeah. That was another very, very devastating time in my life. I really checked out this time for about two, three weeks. In the midst of it, of it all, I got myself up and I walked that beach and I looked out at that ocean and that blue sky. And I said, “I know she's in a better place. My Laura's good. She's happy.” I'm getting these wonderful feelings that she was — her spirit — was around me.

Julie (00:22:25) - Along with those feelings of Laura's spirit being around her, Mary had an extraordinary experience that pulled her out of her grief. Mary had a friend named Peggy who was there to help her as she mourned the loss of Laura. Three weeks after Laura's passing, Peggy insisted that Mary go out to brunch with her. It was at that brunch that Mary received what she believes was a message from Laura.

Mary (00:22:52) - Peggy asked me, she said, “Well, so what do you think?” You know, “How are you feeling?” And my earring flew out of my ear.

Julie (00:22:59) - Oh wow! <laugh>

Mary (00:23:00) - Like, this burst of energy. I mean, I'm not kidding. Burst of energy. And my earring just went flying. And she went and she stood up and raised her hand. She goes, “That's Laura! That's Laura!” <laugh>

Julie (00:23:11) - Oh my gosh.

Mary (00:23:12) - And so we had a moment and that's when I got back to my life. I started living again 'cause I had received a message.

Julie (00:23:20) - What was the message?

Mary (00:23:21) - The message was, “It's not over.” It's, “I'm here, but in another realm.”

Julie (00:23:29) - Yes!

Mary (00:23:30) - And probably so much better.

Julie (00:23:33) - That's amazing. I have chills all over my body right now.

Mary (00:23:40) - <laugh> Yeah. Yeah.

Julie (00:23:42) - It's beautiful.

Mary (00:23:42) - So now every time I talk about it, I smile, 'cause I know. I smile.

Julie (00:23:56) - Are your parents still alive?

Mary (00:23:58) - My mother is still alive. She is 92 and she is in assisted living, in Toronto still. And my dad passed in 2004.

Julie (00:24:09) - Have you felt him or do you think about him in the terms that you feel with Laura?

Mary (00:24:17) - Yes, very much. You know, I believe in that <laugh>, that energy. And he really opened my eyes to another aspect of my life where I was involved with someone and he literally said, “Go!” Just pushed me away and said, “Not for you. Not for you.”

Julie (00:24:39) - And dad was on the other side, at this time.

Mary (00:24:41) - Yeah.

Julie (00:24:42) - That's amazing. At this point, years have passed since Mary had ended her romantic relationship with her business partner, the man she met at the airport. Then she met and married another man from whom she got the last name Chestnut. They were married for 12 years. And that marriage was very similar to her first. She felt she had married potential that was never met. With a nudge from who she believes to be her deceased father, she filed for divorce and was led to another very important person in her life.

Mary (00:25:15) - It was actually the day I walked in to file for divorce that — I'm actually walking into my attorney’s — and I'm, like, hesitant. But, all of a sudden, I had this tremendous push, this release of energy and just there I walked in and “Yes, we're doing it. This is gonna happen. It's got to happen.” I'm feeling fine and confident in everything. Everything's gotta be done. I remember walking out and closing the door and taking this big breath and feeling like I was born again. Total release. And then, I mean, it's amazing because the first place I ended up was back at this condo, you know, where I used to live, on the marsh, where the sun sets every night. It's so beautiful. And who do I meet? My neighbor who is single, has no children like myself, has had a successful career, traveled all over; is getting ready to retire. And there I am, right on his step. I mean literally!

Julie (00:26:27) - <laugh>

Mary (00:26:27) - And we were just birds of a feather — just love dining and going out and talking about our life and good things and the bad things that happened and just, you know… clicked. And I was very proud of him. I would listen to his stories about his travels overseas and by the time the divorce was through, I moved because I was too afraid. I was afraid of the whole — I thought, “What for?” You know, it's never worked before. Why would it work now? (Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) And, so we… yeah. 12 years of, uh, courting. <laugh>

Julie (00:27:03) - What made you change your mind about that?

Mary (00:27:06) - Because we tried to just go our separate ways and life wasn't fun. And I thought, “Well, why am I fighting this?” And so I finally, in 2015, said, “Okay.”

Julie (00:27:18) - And you married in 2015, so you've now been married for almost eight years?

Mary (00:27:23) - Correct. <laugh>

Julie (00:27:24) - And you feel like your dad led you to him, that he guided you to finding each other. It seems there's been a pattern in your life for those you love reaching back to you from the other side.

Mary (00:27:37) - If you don't see the pattern, there's something wrong.

Julie (00:27:41) - Right.

Mary (00:27:43) - You know, you can only get so many messages.

Julie (00:27:45) - You just have to be open-hearted and watch for them.

Mary (00:27:48) - And watch for them. Yes. You have to be open.

Julie (00:27:51) - So tell me what you think happens after you die.

Mary (00:27:54) - You know, I do believe that this is just a mess we are in…

Julie (00:28:00) - We feel anchored in these bodies, but we're not.

Mary (00:28:03) - Correct. But we're not.

Julie (00:28:04) - But that's part of the — I don't know, call it a test or just an evolution (Mm-hmm. <affirmative>) that we go through this human experience for reasons with all of the pain. (Yes.) In all of the limitations. (Yes.) In these bodies in this place. (Yes.) It's like one big mean test. <laugh>

Mary (00:28:26) - It's a test.

Julie (00:28:27) - That's not always fun, is it?

Mary (00:28:29) - It's not always fun. No. But you really do have to learn and teach yourself how to go on. And the only way is to really — you know, you are your own person. Believe what you want. I tell everyone; they're like, “Well, how do you know? You don't have any proof of that.” I said, “It's what I choose to believe.” It helps me get through life, where I am right now. I totally believe that it's all spiritual. Spiritual, electrical. Call it what you want. But this is just one small, little, tiny phase. And so I look forward to it because I think that it's probably gonna be beautiful. I think there's a big, beautiful surprise waiting for us all.

Julie (00:29:20) - Mary Chestnut is an incredible example of perseverance. She did not take for granted the opportunity she was given thanks to her parents' sacrifices and her hard work ethic. She forged her own past and became master of her trade, all while creating rich relationships along the way. Her beautiful perspective on life, death and the universe show her depth of character in her incredible determination.

Julie (00:29:56) - For more inspiring stories from Myrtle Beach keep listening to episodes of Life's a Beach…and Then You Die. I'm Julie Ellis. Thanks for listening.

Woman (Myrtle Beach) (00:30:08) Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, is The Beach. Here, you're free to be your best self because Myrtle Beach is 60 miles made for you. You belong at The Beach.

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