: approaching to, excuse me, do that second one, establishing the first Veterans Treatment Court. I normally do this in one take, one der. I got someone live in the studio here, I get all nervous, I got a judge looking at me, she's actually judging how I actually read. No, I'm not. Yes you are, you're judging, I can tell, you're judging. I promise. Welcome to The Aggressive Life. Melissa Powers, what a great name that is, Dirk, Powers. I like that. Good for her role. Yeah, aggressive, powerful name for Melissa Powers. She lives by a simple philosophy, truth, justice, and fairness. For over 30 years, she's put that philosophy into work in the justice system, starting out as an assistant prosecuting attorney. And she has had lengthy stints in private practice as a municipal court judge and a juvenile court judge. In January this year, she was named the Hamilton County's prosecuting attorney. That's the county in which the city of Cincinnati resides in. She has the highest law enforcement role in the city of Cincinnati and the first ever female to hold this post. She's an aggressive woman. Her career highlights include gaining an international claim after extracting a confession from a serial killer solved the 17-year-old cold case. She established the first Veterans Treatment Court, which incorporates an innovative team approach to address the unique needs of combat veterans, a program which became a model for the entire state of Ohio. She spent six years as a juvenile court judge, and the last two years as the court's administrative judge, managing 300 employees and a $35 million budget. Why? Why? give your life to the justice system. She recently said, if I can make a difference, then it's my duty to serve. Well, today we're going to talk about her storied career and what she can teach us about making better decisions. Welcome to The Aggressive Life, Hamilton County prosecutor, Melissa Powers. Thank you, Brian. It's great to be here. And it's really an honor to be invited to speak during your podcast. Well, you think it's an honor. You have no idea what I'm going to ask you. You had no idea. I'm putting the judge on the seat. I'm putting you on the witness stand. I am going to bring the gavel down. I'm going to cross examine you. I'm trying to think of all the legal metaphors I can possibly use. I think you hit him off. I did? I'm going to be definitely the most annoying person you ever talk to. I am. I'm pretty committed to it. Don't know if you would rank it up there that high. I know. You're interacting with like legitimate serial killers. That's right. I did. Take us back. Tell us about what that was, what was about. Well, back in 1997, I was given the task to speak to a serial killer. It was this Joseph Paul Franklin. He was a white supremacist. He came through Cincinnati in 1980. So it was a 17-year-old cold case. They always believed he was responsible for killing two teenagers who were 13 and 14 years old walking with a dollar in their hand to the candy store as a pony keg. And they were shot by a sniper position up on a train trestle. He came through Cincinnati, committed those two murders, and then left and went to Johnstown, Pennsylvania. And then he committed two more murders there. And that was an interracial couple. A week later, he was down in West Virginia and killed two female hitchhikers. Going forward, I ended up meeting with him on death row after some letters and some phone conversations, developing a rapport and hopefully a trust that he would then give us a confession to the Cincinnati murders. It was really important. to prosecute him, to bring closure to the family so that they could have somebody found accountable and receive where they felt there was justice being served. And then that they could continue to heal. Because I think anybody that, where you have an unsolved crime and you're a victim of that crime, it's very difficult to progress and get that healing that you need. And it doesn't matter if it's 17 years later or a shorter period of time, it's really necessary for those victims to heal. So you didn't try the case, you just put a thing at the end on it. Exactly. So I was called into my boss's office, which was Joe Dieters at the time. And I was in the felony division at the Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office. At that point, I had won six consecutive jury trials. And I thought, oh, I'm getting recognized by the boss. I'm going to be involved in trying a very important case. So I actually thought initially I was being brought into the office to be. the trial attorney on this case alongside my boss, which was such a great honor, as obviously the conversation went on, I realized I was going to be the witness in the case. If he did give a confession, it would make those admissions so that we could close out that case and prosecute him. When I met with him, I felt like I met with somebody the devil literally was working through. I have a Catholic background. I grew up with that, and I still practice my faith. I remember walking out of Death Row after he confessed and I met with him for four hours or so. There are angels and there's literally, there are people the devil walks through. And to me, he was evil personified. He was— You can see it by just looking at him? Looking at him, talking to him, the deadness in the eyes, the coldness in his heart. I really believed it when I walked out and I thought— now I understand, you know, that I've read about it, I've, you know, in the Bible or it's been talked about it or even movies describe it, that I actually experienced it and I walked out with that realization. We had, just a couple weeks ago, we had a Catholic priest whose official title is exorcist of the Indianapolis diocese. I didn't know there was such a thing as, you know... Hi, I'm Pastor Brian. I'm exorcist Jim. I had no idea. A literal exorcist. It's really taken off. Our viewership or listenership on that one dirt been pretty high, hasn't it? Really, really high, yeah. One of the highest of recent. Yeah, it was fascinating. He talked about, I listened to it again and I thought, oh man, I wish I had more time. I should have asked this and that. He talked about being with people who are possessed and the temperature in the room changing. He talked about seeing people levitate. This is a Catholic priest. This isn't some Hollywood thing. Hollywood guy who's just trying to go for a wow effect. So you think this guy probably didn't change the temperature in the room, probably wasn't elevated. But you're just going, this guy was just evil. There was something beyond just a mental illness with him. Absolutely. I mean, definitely I felt that he was evil personified. I believed the devil was literally working through him. There were things, not necessarily levitation or coldness in the room. And I never has explained this to many people publicly, but because I really think people think I'm nuts. But I think this is a program that maybe people could understand. There were six pendant lights in the courtroom that are hanging very long in the courtroom. Okay, so you have these long lights and the only time that one light would sway. And it was the light that he sat directly under at the council table. And when he left the room, that light never moved. When he was in the room, that light moved. And I even went back many, many times to go into that courtroom to see if that light ever moves. And it only moved when he was there. Wow. How close were the other lights that were around it? Oh, I don't know, four or five feet, six feet apart. The ceilings are really high in the courthouse. So, yeah. So that was one. Do do do do do do do do do. And there's more things, but that was definitely one. Oh, come on, well tell us more. You got behind the scenes things. Tell us more things, come on. Let's have some fun. And again, I don't know if it was my imagination playing with me or whatever, but there was a point when I spoke with him that he was shackled at the ankles, and then he was handcuffed with the chain of the handcuffs through the loop of his belt at his waist, okay? So I mean, he had very limited movement. But the one thing that he did during part of the confession was that he put his foot up against my shoe, right? So his shoes and my shoes were touching. So I let that happen because of my research in working with the FBI profilers that touch can also have him continue to speak, and I needed him to speak. So I allowed that to happen and then pull my foot away. But after the interview and after I got home, There were some things that were happening in my own personal life that I felt that now the evil is... I've looked into the eye of evil, the evil is coming and is working now through me partially. So I would have very vivid dreams and my senses were extremely heightened, premonition type dreams and they were playing out. So one was my father in an accident. That was... It was a bizarre accident, no explanation. He pulls out of our driveway and hits the telephone pole, made no sense. My son, another one, was my son was riding his bicycle through Old Park. Terrible accident. I saw the whole thing in a dream. Hurt his hand. And I wasn't there to be able to help. And there was a third thing. Oh, yeah. So the confession that he gave me for the murders in West Virginia were the two hitchhikers. And there was somebody else already convicted. And the authorities in West Virginia were convinced they had the right person. But the modus operandi in that crime, as well as others, and they could place Franklin there, they always believed it was Franklin's responsible. Franklin would never admit to it. There were many opportunities that they tried to get him to give that confession. So Franklin, I said to him, in the confession, what can you tell me that only the killer would know? And so we were going through what I knew of the evidence. And I said, you know, OK, so you picked these girls up. And... did you keep anything of theirs, and things like that. He said no, he got rid of their backpacks that they were carrying. And he described where he dumped it, and that's where they picked him up. And I said, did you ever look in the backpacks? Because I knew the contents from the investigation and the reports. He said, no, I never looked in. But in my dream was this drum that I didn't realize was in there. So when I called the investigators and said, this is what he's told me. And when she, I said, can you describe this drum? And it was exactly what I saw in my dream. So I realized that I needed to go speak to, I went running out of my office, went down to St. Xavier Church and met with the priest and spoke with the priest. Tell me about these confessions. This confession, I got a confession to six murders. I met with him on death row. You must hear terrible things too in these confessions. I need help. I need you to help me process this and told him everything that I've just told you. He took my hands and he held them and I literally could see light coming down and to our hands and then to our hearts, he said, he goes, Melissa, you have nothing to worry about. Good always conquers evil. And so that's how I walked away and that was the end of them. The end of the dreams. Now, this, how were you chosen as the one who went and got the confession? Well, because I think I was a female and he was talking to women. Aha, I knew it. I was going to, I was going to see the witness. Those of you who do not know, I'm here with a judge. It's an attractive, an attractive blonde judge. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. I like that. I'm thinking, if there was some guy wanted to get talk, I'd get it with Justice Melissa Powers. That's what I would do. So someone was thoughtful of that, using that as an edge, and get it. That's fascinating. Right. You had to use every advantage and tool that you had in order to try to accomplish the goal, which was to get a confession. So I'm not offended by it. I never was offended by it. I had a job. You didn't go in like wearing Daisy Dukes or something like that, did you? Absolutely not. Very conscious about what I had on. No perfume, no hairspray that had any scent. Was very, very aware of what I was wearing. Why no perfume without, or why no hairspray without any scent? I mean, what? Didn't want anything to get this guy going in the wrong direction, right? You know? And then take that back to his cell after I was gone. I did not have any interest in being a part of that. So I was very, very aware of what I was doing and what I had on. And obviously, they were not Daisy Dukes. Oh, man. I'm looking at you. When you first came in, I had never seen. Melissa Power is great. I expected what a judge would be like. And then I saw you, and I thought, gosh, what causes any woman, really, any woman to want arm of our country, specifically having the most heinous of heinous things be told you. I guess that sexist Eddie Woman. Actually, it's not. I mean, I thought about it as well. When I was in law school, my background to give you, to show you how far away I was from where I wanted to be. When I was in high school and starting in college, I wanted to be in the fashion industry. I wanted to be a fashion designer, go to New York. So... totally different track than where I am today. That didn't happen. I ended up applying for law school because a friend recommended it. And then when I was in law school for three years, people would ask, what kind of law you want to practice? Well, I didn't grow up with lawyers. I was never in a courtroom. I had no idea. My parents just taught us hard work. So anyway, and when I was in law school for three years, I said anything but criminal law. So that's what was my answer for three years. So most of I feel like most of where I've been in my career that has been significant I've been dragging my feet and kicking not going in that direction But I really think there's a higher power that has moved me Along in my life and to be able to serve and accomplish what I've accomplished to help other people Then when I interviewed so I went to I did an internship my last year of law school my third year And I was wanting and applying for the Federated Department Store internship. I wanted to work there. And instead I got assigned to the city prosecutor's office. So I was so devastated, so disappointed. And I did not like this idea at all. But the first day was a Saturday morning in the evraiment room. And I got to see all the people that got arrested the Friday night before to get their bonds set. There was a fight that broke out. There was. a woman telling, you know, this story about how she arrested her husband and her husband was going to go out with his friends. And it was really to keep him from going out with his friends. She hit him, arrested. So he spent the night in jail. And I thought, this is like the wild, wild west. I love it. You know, I love it. And, and so that's how I set my career and going into the prosecutor's office. And don't get me wrong. I mean, there were times then as I was doing being a prosecutor's office and doing cases. that it took me several years to kind of toughen myself up and be hard not to bring this home, not have to decompress to get strong and get that strength that I needed. But I really thought that was good for me, you know, to become a stronger person and to have more strength to be able to deal with these horrible situations and try to either help the community or help people, and also help victims. You're the first female prosecuting attorney in Cincinnati history. That's pretty impressive. Well, thank you. Yeah. It's quite an honor in that regard. But it's just an honor to be the Hamilton County prosecutor. It's a job that I never dreamed of trying to achieve. I had planned to retire. I have 31 years in, and I retired in December of 2022. And then I was called to serve and felt it was my duty to do that. You've got, how did you put it, harden yourself or something that, because you've just dealing with awful difficult stuff. It's one of the questions I had for you was, like in my line of work, I'm a pastor by day. I just hear of a lot of pain and heartache. I'm not fortunately hearing of serial killers. I'm fortunate I'm hearing that, but a lot of pain, a lot of heartache, a lot of cancer, a lot of divorce, a lot of abuse. a lot of lost jobs, a lot of, just a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff. And if my wife was hearing all this, she, she owns it all. She just can't, she can't get over it. I've, I've learned the ability to empathize, be with it. And then I, I forget about it. And I don't think that, I'm not sure if that's a coping mechanism, because I just would be in a deep, deep depression if that was the case. or it's a gift from God. I'm not sure which is, but I can feel in the moment, I'm glad I do, but it doesn't cling with me. You're saying you've had to develop that same thing or does that come automatically for you? No, it did not come automatically. I think it's something that you develop, it's a skill that you develop so that you can continue on and you know that you have a mission and that you're passionate about what you're doing. You have to, you're not gonna survive if you don't. It would wash out and I would think the same thing with you. You couldn't be effective. You couldn't be strong. So I think it's required. You have to have a, it's not a callousness, although I felt like I lost a lot of innocence when I was, you know, I started out a young Catholic school girl, pretty sheltered, and now seem really, I thought everybody treated others the way you wanted to be treated. And that's how naive I think I was when I started in the office. And then, you know, it helped me become a stronger person. I can definitely understand your wife's position. I remember losing, I guess, some of that innocence, so to speak, where you realize that you have to develop that callousness, that hardness. It's kind of like letting the water run off your back like a duck. You have to let that go. But when you're trying cases and you're intimately involved as the trial attorney, or I'm representing them if I was the defense attorney, because I did that work too for a while, I did both sides, you are involved with their lives. and they are counting on you. And there's a tremendous responsibility to make sure that the right outcome is achieved. And those kinds of cases live with you. And I think that's what kind of keeps me moving forward. And I would assume maybe for you too, that you realize that people, you can help people redirect their lives, get the help they need, whether it's addiction, mental health, veterans, working with veterans. Do you think you're different? Like if you had gone into the... If you're a car salesman, if you were in marketing at a firm and you'd looked at your life right now, do you think you would be different? Do you think the weight of it has brought you down? Do you feel you're more cynical than you would have been? Because you're exposed to a lot of awful stuff. How has the work, or do you not think it's changed you at all? No, it definitely has changed me. Initially, it's like, what the heck is going on here? My world is completely blown up. I had no idea these things happened. Had no idea that parents would abuse a child. I had no idea that people would be so mean or inconsiderate or violent towards another individual. And it could be a stranger, it could be somebody that they know. I just didn't know any of those things. And again, 31 years ago, the world was different than it is even today. And today we're a lot more willing to make excuses. and to justify behavior or excuse behavior. And I'm- What do you mean by that? Like what are we willing to excuse today we weren't 31 years ago? I think taking responsibility and being accountable for your actions is number one. A lot of people don't take that responsibility and they don't want to be held accountable and they won't take accountability for what they do or for what they say. And I think that's number one on my list. Yeah. I wonder what your thought or opinion is on this. just been scratching my head over the amount of mental illness. I believe that mental illness is a real thing. I believe that there is neurochemistry that can be out of whack and cause someone to behave in ways that are very, very difficult to cure. And, and man, it just seems like mental illness is spreading like wildfire. And I'm just left to say, Can everything just be boiled down in somebody's responsibilities to, I have a mental illness? Is it really this many people are born with neurochemistry issues? Or is it what society is doing to an increasing numbers of our people? Is it the way we're living our life just doesn't work for us mentally and it gets us into patterns? Is it, I don't know, it just seems like. It just seems like it's out of control. What do you think of this as a person behind the bench who's seeing more of these situations than the average person? Do you agree, disagree? What's your thoughts on it? Well, I agree with you. And I think there's a combination of factors. And I'm not an expert on this in any way. But I can just tell you what I saw on my ears on the bench, and particularly the last six years as a juvenile court judge. I'd say close to 90%. And it's probably even higher. of children that I saw had trauma. And I'm not talking about one incident of trauma. It's chronic trauma. And the younger that's happening, the more likely their brain chemistry will change and develop into bipolar, et cetera. And so we saw that. So I believe a root of a lot of our problems with violent crimes being committed by juveniles and you're seeing that getting younger and younger is the trauma. 90 percent. 90 percent had trauma. And a majority of those kids, probably close to that percentage, also had some contact with Hamilton County Job and Family Services, meaning they were abused physically, emotionally, sexually, or that they were neglected, they were left and abandoned. And so we're failing these children, and they don't even have a chance to get started in life. And so it does need to be addressed. the mental health in regards to mass shootings also. There's trauma back in the background there as well. And I don't know if that is associated also with some type of neurological brain dysfunction, but definitely trauma is a route that we need to be addressing. And I think that has a lot to do with it. I also think not having mental health hospitals like we used to. People are out on the streets and then they're abusing drugs, which even contributes to their mental health deterioration is using drug use. Chronic drug use is a big problem where their brains are just definitely changed and heroin changes the brain chemistry immediately. So these are just things that I saw as a judge. It's a big deal. Well, I wonder though, with the trauma. Are, do families in the last few decades, are we generating more trauma than we did in the 40s and 30s? There's more of it, however, there's more of it, right? It seems like that. It's hard to know. And again, I'm not an expert in the field. It would be interesting to see if somebody has got that information. Or is it just more, reported more? Or are we just seeing it more? I really don't know the answer to that. Being, I have some friends that are attorneys and there's this great respect for being a judge or a justice, being a justice. Is that just the Supreme Court? Is that fair? That's it. That's okay. Being a judge. And then there's also an awareness. I've heard some of my friends talk. Yeah, I said, yeah, but if I did that, I just wouldn't make the same amount of money. So I'm not really ready to go sit on the bench because I can generate more of my private practice. That's true. You either choose public service or have a better lifestyle, I think. And for you, it's truly public service. That's actually descriptive. That's not just a title. You're actually serving the public. That's your mindset. Absolutely. But gosh, that's refreshing. Oh, thanks. That's really refreshing. not many servants out there to begin with, and yet when someone is taking a position to serve the public, well, on behalf of the nameless masses out there, thank you. You're welcome. I have this true passion to serve and to help others. And this just really, again, this was not a job that I saw it out. It was something that I believed a higher power was guiding me to, and it worked out great. And I'm really thrilled to be having the opportunity to help others. And really make Cincinnati or Hamilton County a better place to live. That's why the podcast is called the aggressive life. It's people of all different walks of life, making decisions that are cutting against the grain, making decisions that are not victim type of decisions, actually taking control of their life and doing what they want to do instead of wherever the winds of change happen to blow them. And this is a big deal, man, for you to, you to choose this line of work. which is difficult, being around difficult people and serving us, that's a form of aggression that needs to be celebrated more. Thank you. You're welcome. It's my pleasure. I wonder as you're hearing cases, you've got to, if I was to become a judge today, immediately today, which I couldn't because I would be a bad one. I don't know much about the law, but I would think that I would have. two parts of my brain that would be competing immediately. Like one, my instincts of is this person guilty or innocent? And then two, what does the law say about what evidence can be introduced? What kind of questioning can be continued? Just all that stuff. All he knows what I see in the movies. That's all I know. Do you struggle with that? Like do you have a, do you get a knee-jerk reaction of, oh, this person's guilty? No. You don't? No. You really don't? No. You have to go through the analysis, and then you have to listen to all the facts. And then some evidence might have greater strength than others. But in the bottom line is then you're looking at the law and following the law. And when you become a lawyer, or when you become a judge, or even a prosecutor, you know, I took an oath, and it is to follow the law and to support the Constitution of the United States, and then the laws and the Constitution of the State of Ohio. So you're bound by that duty to stay in those parameters. And you're not making, I mean, there's times that you're listening to cases and they're just heartbreaking and tragic. There's some that you can get very emotional on or be angry with, you know, how could this guy do this terrible thing or this woman? But in the end, you're looking at the facts. The emotions have to stay out of it. And even our jury instructions, if you were ever a juror, the instructions are you can't consider your emotions, your sympathy, that cannot come into play. It's more of a business decision, so to speak. You're looking at the facts, analyzing it alongside with the law, and then you're duty bound to follow it. And you're saying in a three-day trial, you don't get a hunch at the end of day one, you're able to actually stay open-minded till the very end? We're required to do that. So you're required. Now, would a juror do that? I don't know. I think people in general want to resolve conflict fast. They don't like it. So they want to be able to say yes or no. But you're constantly reminding, as a judge to a jury, you remind them not to form any opinions, not to discuss the facts with anybody. They have to keep their mind open. So you're constantly reminding them, as a judge, you know that, because you're in the courtroom a lot. I've got a lot of experience, so you should know that. But you never reach a conclusion after the first witness. I mean, everything can change. There's got to be an open mind. I'm bound by the law to do that, and any judge would be. When you say, I have to do the right thing, that includes staying open-minded and being able to receive all the evidence. Right, and you're neutral. You are staying neutral. You're not taking one side or the other. You've got to stay neutral. And then now you've got, and then that actually applies to how I make decisions too, even in my everyday life. You want to make sure, if they're big decisions, you want to get all the facts that you can in the information, and then make a reasoned decision based on that information. So it's very similar. I think about what our whole culture would be like if we could learn that skill of open-minded, wait for evidence, don't jump immediate to conclusions. That just seems like everybody is so on edge and everybody has their opinions that they're only looking for evidence to support and we're not opening up to listen to anybody else. I would agree with you and I think the biggest fault that I see with those that don't have that open mind is that they're trying to fit facts into a narrative or an agenda or a political belief and that's where you find the most trouble. Look at the facts and then just use your common sense and reason. to be able to draw your own conclusions. And then if you're getting it off the TV, which I see so much of as well, is that, you know, don't believe what they're telling you. You know, do your own investigation, look into it. And I don't mean go off in the deep end into some conspiracy theory, but maybe what they're getting is not, what they're telling you isn't actually everything, or it might not be accurate. So let's, you know, don't draw a conclusion even then. Make sure. You get it, because often the media gets the stories wrong. But the main beef I have, I think, the most of is that people don't look at the facts, which the facts are going to be the truth, most likely, unless somebody's manipulating those facts. Yeah, well, that's a problem. We can't even agree on what the facts are. You say, do the research. What that means is everybody on the left just listens to CNN, everybody on the right just listens to Fox News. I've done the research. I got the data. Well, I wouldn't use that as my source. of information, if you're making a big decision. Again, most of that's entertainment. So you want to pass time and use that for entertainment. But unfortunately, even in the art, the journalists and papers don't even, they'll put a very emotional headline. And then when you read through the body of it, it has nothing to do with the headline or very little, but it's how many people click and that's how they're judging their performance and their success. being able to get advertising. So maybe I am a little bit cynical. I love your line about most of us just want to resolve conflict fast. There's got to be that conflict in the courtroom. I agree with you. And I think most of us are resolving conflict by just checking out, just not even having the conflict, not even having the conversation. As you talk about this stuff, It makes me think about how well-rounded you have to be as a human being, as a mature adult. You've got to be a pretty great friend to have. Do you have close friendships? I do. I have lifelong friends and my friendships are really what my life is all about and family. So gosh, yeah. Having a friend who isn't afraid of conflict, having a friend that isn't going to immediately judge me, that's going to take time to decide something. Having a friend that Where's Daisy Dukes? I mean, all those things. I think that's the theme of this whole podcast. It's the Daisy Dukes show. I don't know why I did. I just, I'm having fun. One of my spiritual gifts is I'm annoying. That's one of my things. Well, I wouldn't call it annoying, but tenacity. Tenacity. Today's podcast is brought to you by Athletic Greens. It's a product I use every day. 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So go get you some and let's get back to the show. Melissa, Justice Melissa, Judge Melissa, we want to- Prosecutor Melissa. Prosecutor Melissa, I'm sorry, all of the above, not Justice Melissa yet. So you should be on the Supreme Court. I'll just say right now, you should be on the Supreme Court. There is an American alive after hearing you wouldn't say that's the kind of person who should be a justice someday. But, Prosecutor Melissa, I want to take you through the lightning round. Very few people can actually do the lightning round. Very few people have the mental fortitude to be able to answer a question quickly and succinctly, like a flash of lightning. Are you up for the lightning round? I'll accept the challenge. All right, here we go. Hardest case you've been a part of. I was a prosecutor, a 10-year-old boy, which was about the age of my son, was shoplifting in Coryville. And I was a juvenile court prosecutor. And he stole a pair of socks, a notebook, and a can of SpaghettiOs. And when I asked him why he did that, he said he was hungry. He needed the socks and the notebook for school. When you get arrested, they take you back home to your parents, right, especially if it's not a violent felony. And so they couldn't find the parent. They had to bring him to our detention facility, which is 2020 on Auburn Avenue. And every day, he would come to court and say, is my mom going to be here? And he was in our lockup. I would go back to see him. still brings tears to my eyes. I'll never forget that little boy. So that was the hardest case, I think. So you found him guilty? Oh, I was the prosecutor. You're the prosecutor, OK. But I obviously didn't want to prosecute him. Right. And they didn't want to charge the kid, but they couldn't find the mom. She was a crack addict. And it was like 10 days before they located a parent so the child could go home. And the whole time, your heart's breaking. And I kept looking to go home to my son, who was about the same age. And I really. It was hard. So you can't at that point say to go to the sheriff, wherever, just go like, nudge, nudge, this guy's just, we're just going to let this guy go. Well, they couldn't. They couldn't find anyone to release him to. That was the problem. So that's why he was in the detain. So he had no business being locked up. And then how scared, a 10-year-old. And every day when I would go back to see him, he goes, is my mom here today? Because he knew if his mother showed up at court, he could go home. So that had to be the hardest case that I did and I'll never forget it and it still brings tears to my eyes Wow Moment from your career you're most proud of That's a tough one I'm very proud of my career path and very proud of my accomplishments But which one is the most important and which ones the stands out the most I can't identify it yet So maybe it's still to come. I like it best advice you've ever gotten? The best advice I've ever gotten is to never give up. That was one of my father's, it's like, you know, you get knocked down, you get back up, somebody hurts you, you get back in there, just don't give up, don't give up. And you're gonna face many obstacles in life and just never give up. So just keep out there working. And what you do to unwind. I do a number of things. I don't get to do it as much as I'd like, because now I just go on the couch at the end of the day, because these are long, exhausting days, and just decompress there. But I love reading. I love painting. I'm an artist. So I love oil painting. I don't do as much cooking as I used to do, but I love that. I've got a lot of interest from gardening, to walking, to traveling. just get on a bike and ride. There's lots of things. Melissa, is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't talked about? Yes, the Veterans Treatment Court. So, when I was in municipal court, I was seeing the soldiers return from war, and they were coming in front of me with DUIs. They were self-medicating. I could see that, and I could tell the trauma. They had that thousand yard stare. that people talk about or shell shock. You've heard those kind of phrases being used by the older veterans. PTSD wasn't, you know, talked about that much and it had quite a bit of a stigma to it. One in particular young man, he was a high school graduate from Indian Hill. He was wounded, so he had a purple heart and he came in front of me with a DUI and I said, what are you doing? What help are you getting? And I'm not doing anything ma'am. I said, I'd like for you to go up to the VA. And he says, OK, ma'am, yes, ma'am. And so he put him on probation. He did the normal sentence that a DUI would receive as their first. And within a month, he was back, another DUI. And so I asked him again if he went up to the VA. And he said, no, ma'am. And I said, why aren't you going to the VA? So much trauma. He could not get himself to the VA. It was as if he was paralyzed. and could not function, and he wasn't working. There was a lot, he was just cocooning, I guess, is the best way to describe it, internally, and just using alcohol to go through the wounds of war, which were the silent wounds of war. I mean, he was getting his medical treatment, but it was really what was happening up there. So out of that, I started doing a lot of research, and I found in Buffalo, there was a program of a veterans treatment court. And then I talked to the judge up there, and we started one here. So I brought basically the VA to the courthouse, and we brought in all the community partners from the DAV and UC Hospital because of their trauma treatment that they were working with. And we have some of the best skilled people. One in particular is a psychologist, Dr. Kate Chard, and she was directing the Pentagon on how to handle the soldiers in PTSD. because the general at the time was concerned that they were losing these soldiers because of suicide. Right. So anyway, out of that developed a wonderful program. We helped many, many of them get some trauma treatment. And we did lots of things. I even brought yoga to the courtroom so they learned mindfulness because they couldn't sleep at night because of the trauma and the anxiety. And trying to tell a Marine to get down on the ground, you know, on a mat and do these yoga poses. That was a tough sell. But I forced them all into it and they all really benefit from it. We're very grateful. And now that's being used widespread as well, yoga and mindfulness and meditation. Yoga in the courtroom. In the courtroom. It was great. So that was something I'd like to talk about. And then finally, I want to mention how if you want more information or you want to get more involved with what's happening in the courthouse, you want to learn and just get the facts of what's happening in the courthouse. You can follow our Facebook page, the Hamilton County Prosecutors page. We report out on cases that are good or bad, what judges are doing, what, so that you can keep informed on what's happening inside the courthouse. We used to, years ago, have a reporter in the courthouse. And so that person would report on everything. Well, now we no longer have that. So the prosecutor's office is getting the information out through our web page. So you can find all of that. And We also have a Twitter handle. It's Melissa A. Powers. We have an office Instagram, Hamilton County prosecutor, and then prosecutor Melissa Powers on Facebook, and then Hamilton County prosecutor's office website, as well as Facebook. News not being in your courts. Right. Gosh, that is, that is changed. That's changed society, hasn't it? It definitely has. You know how to get information. You don't get the information and the judges that are elected are not being held accountable for their decisions. So if a judge is not keeping our public safe and releasing, for example, somebody on a very low bond, you need to know that. Is that the kind of judge that you want to continue to elect? If you have a judge that isn't protecting a rape victim, you want to know that. Again, is that somebody the kind of judge that you want? Maybe it is your philosophy. Maybe it's not. But it has a direct impact on our community and our public safety and whether you and your family feel safe and secure in your community. And when you see these violent offenders being released, they're going right back into neighborhoods that are high-risk neighborhoods to begin with. And so as a prosecutor, obviously, and even as a judge, I have a real strong objection to that because we're hurting the neighborhoods that need the help the most. And we're hurting other... people in the community. So you're not saying on your prosecutor Facebook page, hey, this judge did a crappy job. You're saying this judge had a case where someone was been beaten and they put out a bond for $500. Exactly. And they let that speak for itself. Exactly. So we just put out the facts. There's not any opinion on it. It's just the facts for there's some transparency of what's going in the courthouse and our elected officials. there's some accountability for the decisions that they are making. In my opinion, you are accountable to the voters in our community. People need to know. And if it's not being reported, you don't know. How many attorneys are on your downline? We have 110 currently in the prosecutor's office. We've lost a lot with COVID and a lot of other reasons, people wanting to work from home. work and things like that. People wanting to not work from home, yes. Correct. Yeah. You know how that goes. Yes, I do. If you're a trial lawyer, you can't work from home. Yeah, right. We need you. And I also believe that our office is, we serve the public. So we must be available to serve the public from 8 to 4. And so I want my people in their jobs, in their desk, working and serving the public. much of your job, I thought I was winding down here, but now all of a sudden I got a whole new line of questions here. Am I wearing you out? No, you're not wearing me out. No, you're not wearing me out. I just thought of a whole new vein of interest for me. I've been treating you and thinking of you as a, uh, justice official, which is true and right, but I really hadn't contemplated like, oh, you're also a CEO of, of a multi a hundred member organization. So. That's right. Right. It's like running a business. And I have a $20 million budget. And we have, as I said, 110 attorneys and about 40 support staff, roughly. I might not have those numbers exactly right. So you've got to think about. I'm sorry, 74 support staff. And you've got to think about staff morale. You've got to think about division of labor. Absolutely. Is that stuff? It's all fun. It is fun. It is fun and I enjoy it. And then my day isn't I don't have cases. At first, it was an adjustment. For 31 years, I would have cases on my desk. And I would go through the files. And once I handled that case, I went on to the next one. So it's not task-oriented in that way. It's more meetings, putting out fires. It's managing, being involved with the community. There's a lot of it. There's a lot of, like you said, a CEO. and I'm the boss. Yeah, right. And you like it? I do. I enjoy it. Well, you're great at it. You're serving our city, our county, really, really well. I'm a resident of Hamilton County. And you're making my life better. Makes me feel good about the public servants we have in our city who are doing the job that many of us can't do or didn't sign up for. So thank you so much for serving us well. Hey folks, I don't know what you're gonna do about this. If you live within my home city, maybe you wanna check out that Facebook page and some of the other things that were just talked about. Maybe you want to do something like resolve some conflict but not make it fast, actually listen to somebody. Maybe you want to do the right thing. Maybe you wanna open yourself up to information and actually wrestle with it. Like very, very few people in our culture are able to do. Maybe you're going to, I don't know what you're gonna do. I don't, but I tell you this right now, this is not a podcast that says, ooh, more interesting thoughts for you. This is to get you in the game of life, to take control of your life, to push forward with things. And we've had a prosecutor do that really, really well. I feel actually prosecuted. I feel a bit challenged here. I'm like, oh man, I just wanna make snap judgments. I'm probably gonna have to make. fewer snap judgments, although dirt, you're still dirty. I could still make that snap judgment any day. Still true. Yeah, I'm looking at your toes right now. You're like, yeah, you're very dirty. Very dirty. Melissa noticed that immediately when she came in here. She was whispering to you. Rose, look at this guy. She said, I would not allow him in my courtroom. How do you allow him in your offices? I know, I know I probably need to make less judgments, but I'm encouraged and I'm pushed today. So hey, friends, thanks for being with us. Anything else you want to say? Final word? All right, thank you so much for allowing me to be here. And I enjoyed meeting you in dirt. There you go. We'll see you next time on The Aggressive Life. Thank you. Hey, thanks for listening. For all things aggressive living, why don't you head over to bryantome.com, find my new book, Move, A Guide to Get Up and Go Forward, as well as articles and much, much more. And no matter where you listen to podcasts, why don't you take a second and leave us a rating, leave us a review. It really, really helps us drive new listeners to show we wanna help as many people as possible, just like we may have helped you, we wanna help others. So why don't you help us out? And if you want to connect, find me on Instagram, at Brian Tome. Aggressive Life with Brian Tome is a production of Crossroads Church, Cincinnati, Ohio.