Audioboom

Transcript for An introduction to Report Remove, an online self-reporting tool for young people

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INTRODUCTION: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast,

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INTRODUCTION: where we share learning and expertise in

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INTRODUCTION: child protection from inside and outside of

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INTRODUCTION: the organisation.

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INTRODUCTION: We aim to create debates, encourage

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INTRODUCTION: reflection and share good practice on how

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INTRODUCTION: we can all work together to keep babies,

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INTRODUCTION: children and young people safe.

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast.

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GEORGE LINFIELD: This episode focuses on Report Remove,

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GEORGE LINFIELD: an online tool from the NSPCC and the

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Internet Watch Foundation that under-18s

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GEORGE LINFIELD: can use to report nude images or videos

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GEORGE LINFIELD: of themselves that have been shared

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GEORGE LINFIELD: online to see if they can be removed

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GEORGE LINFIELD: from the internet.

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GEORGE LINFIELD: In just a moment, you'll hear from Chloe

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GEORGE LINFIELD: O'Connor, Projects Manager within the

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GEORGE LINFIELD: NSPCC's Child Safety Online Solutions

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Lab, in conversation with online safety

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GEORGE LINFIELD: practitioners from Childline and the

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Internet Watch Foundation.

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GEORGE LINFIELD: They will explain more about what Report

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Remove is and how it works; the

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GEORGE LINFIELD: confidentiality and security around the

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GEORGE LINFIELD: tool; how professionals who work with

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GEORGE LINFIELD: children should approach an incident of

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GEORGE LINFIELD: nude image sharing; and how

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GEORGE LINFIELD: professionals can use Report Remove to

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GEORGE LINFIELD: support young people involved in these

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GEORGE LINFIELD: incidents.

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GEORGE LINFIELD: But first, let's hear from two members

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GEORGE LINFIELD: of the NSPCC's Young People's Board for

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GEORGE LINFIELD: Change about why the Report Remove tool

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GEORGE LINFIELD: is important for children and young

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GEORGE LINFIELD: people.

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YPBCM1: I think it's incredibly important that

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YPBCM1: young people have a tool like Report Remove

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YPBCM1: because not every young person has a support

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YPBCM1: system like their family or even trusted

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YPBCM1: teachers at school to confide in them about these

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YPBCM1: sort of things. I think there's a lot of fear

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YPBCM1: in general about these situations being forced to

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YPBCM1: go to the police and a

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YPBCM1: massive deal being made out of a situation

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YPBCM1: that a young person probably already regrets and,

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YPBCM1: like, isn't very happy about in

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YPBCM1: the first place.

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YPBCM1: So I think the fact that Report Remove is

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YPBCM1: confidential and is easily accessible for

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YPBCM1: so many young people is absolutely amazing and

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YPBCM1: incredibly important.

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YPBCM2: The fear of judgement around

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YPBCM2: sexual images for young people is a massive

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YPBCM2: problem that can cause lots of mental health

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YPBCM2: problems among young people.

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YPBCM2: And I think that this is why this service is so

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YPBCM2: important. And I also think it's really

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YPBCM2: important that it's linked to Childline so

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YPBCM2: that young people then also know that if they

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YPBCM2: need further support or if they want to talk

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YPBCM2: about it, they can then easily access that

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YPBCM2: service afterwards as well.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: There

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: are lots of reasons why children and

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: young people might share nudes, but it

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: can be incredibly distressing for young

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: people when they lose control of a nude

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: image that's been shared online.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: It can leave them at risk of further

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: abuse or exploitation, including

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: financially or for further images.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Young people can feel revictimised every

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: time an image or video of them is shared,

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: and the IWF are continuously seeing an

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: increase in self-generated child sexual

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: abuse material.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: To address this issue, the NSPCC

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: partnered with the Internet Watch Foundation,

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: or IWF, to find a way to support those

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: young people to report nude and sexual

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: images and videos of themselves to see if

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: they could be removed from the internet. With

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: support from age verification platform Yoti,

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: the first version of Report Remove was

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: developed in 2017, and then since then

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: the organisations have been working with

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: each other and with children and young

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: people to improve the tool and to make

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: sure that young people know about it.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: So to make a report, children need to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: follow three steps.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: The first is follow the instructions to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: confirm their age. If they're 13 to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: 17, they'll be asked if they'd like to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: prove their age using Yoti and using a

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: form of ID to help with that.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: And then step two, they'll log in or

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: create a Childline account so that they

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: can receive updates on their report.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: And then step three: report and remove.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: They share the image or video or a link

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: to it securely with the IWF, who will

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: then view and work to have it removed if

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: it breaks the law.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Childline will let the young person know

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: the outcome of their report and provide

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: further support where needed.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: In this episode we'll be joined by Zara

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: at the IWF and Sam from Childline's

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: online service team to talk about how

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Report Remove works and how professionals

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: can support young people to use it.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: I'll now pass over to them to introduce

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: themselves.

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ZARA: Hi, I'm Zara and I'm a senior analyst at the

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ZARA: Internet Watch Foundation.

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ZARA: The Internet Watch Foundation is an independent

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ZARA: charity based in the UK.

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ZARA: We work to make the Internet a safer place.

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ZARA: We identify and remove online images and videos

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ZARA: of child sexual abuse worldwide.

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ZARA: We also run a hotline which offers a safe place for

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ZARA: the public to report to us anonymously.

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ZARA: The hotline consists of a team of 16 expert

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ZARA: analysts who spend their working week assessing

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ZARA: and disrupting the sharing of child sexual abuse

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ZARA: material online.

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SAM FIRTH: My name's Sam and I'm a website supervisor

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SAM FIRTH: with the Childline online service.

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SAM FIRTH: Childline is a service for children and young

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SAM FIRTH: people under the age of 19 in the UK.

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SAM FIRTH: I think it's most well known for its Childline

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SAM FIRTH: counsellors and the support it can offer over

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SAM FIRTH: the telephone. But also young people can make

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SAM FIRTH: an account on the website.

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SAM FIRTH: The website itself has a wealth of information

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SAM FIRTH: and tips and advice on a whole range of

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SAM FIRTH: subjects and topics.

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SAM FIRTH: It also hosts the Report Remove tool.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Brilliant. Thank you very much.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: So it would be really good to hear more

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: about Report Remove and why it's needed.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: But taking a step back first, because

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Report Remove is there to support young

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: people who have had a nude image shared

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: online: what should professionals do and

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: how can professionals who work with

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: children approach an incident of nude

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: image sharing?

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SAM FIRTH: I think the primary things to remember is to

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SAM FIRTH: not look at the image yourself and to follow

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SAM FIRTH: any safeguarding policies that your

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SAM FIRTH: organisation may have.

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SAM FIRTH: In terms of interacting with that child or

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SAM FIRTH: young person that has come to you with this

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SAM FIRTH: problem, it's really important to stay calm,

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SAM FIRTH: remain non-judgemental, and accept the

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SAM FIRTH: situation for what it is.

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SAM FIRTH: So it may well be that this young person is

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SAM FIRTH: experiencing a sense of regret and is aware of

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SAM FIRTH: the risks they might be now facing.

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SAM FIRTH: So there's no need for telling off or attempts

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SAM FIRTH: to educate them on the risks because that's

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SAM FIRTH: already happening for them.

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ZARA: I'd just like to add that it's important to

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ZARA: remember that the creating and sharing of nudes of

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ZARA: under 18 is illegal.

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ZARA: However, the law is there to protect children.

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ZARA: So it's important to reassure that young person

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ZARA: that they're not in any trouble and just to use

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ZARA: supportive language and that there is a tool out

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ZARA: there to help them remove the content

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ZARA: online and the law is there

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ZARA: to support them.

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SAM FIRTH: One option is to tell that child

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SAM FIRTH: or young person about Report Remove.

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SAM FIRTH: And if you've got access to the internet there

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SAM FIRTH: and then it'd be really handy if you could

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SAM FIRTH: show them the tool on the website by searching

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SAM FIRTH: for the URL: childline.org.uk/remove.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: So why is the Report Remove tool needed

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: and why might a young person have shared

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: nude images online?

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SAM FIRTH: It's a normal and expected and healthy part of

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SAM FIRTH: child development to want to understand the

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SAM FIRTH: changing body. And then when we couple that

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SAM FIRTH: with access to the internet, many children and

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SAM FIRTH: young people have a phone with a camera with

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SAM FIRTH: that internet access.

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SAM FIRTH: Perhaps to an extent, it's almost inevitable

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SAM FIRTH: that those two things are going to come

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SAM FIRTH: together at times.

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SAM FIRTH: There's many reasons why a young person may

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SAM FIRTH: share a nude.

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SAM FIRTH: They may be sharing their images in a trusting

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SAM FIRTH: friendship or a trusting relationship.

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SAM FIRTH: It might be an expression of body confidence.

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SAM FIRTH: It might feel empowering.

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SAM FIRTH: They might be doing it for fun.

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SAM FIRTH: There's a darker side too. They might be

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SAM FIRTH: sharing nudes because they've been pressured

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SAM FIRTH: or they've been coerced or they've been

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SAM FIRTH: bullied. But they might change their mind

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SAM FIRTH: about what they've done. They may experience

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SAM FIRTH: that sense of regret.

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SAM FIRTH: It may be that trust has been broken or

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SAM FIRTH: they're concerned that that trust might get

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SAM FIRTH: broken. Or when they've initially shared

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SAM FIRTH: a nude to try and prevent further requests,

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SAM FIRTH: further pressure, it hasn't worked, and

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SAM FIRTH: that's when they feel they need something to

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SAM FIRTH: happen, something to change, so they can take

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SAM FIRTH: some control back of the image that they've

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SAM FIRTH: lost. That's where Report Remove can offer a

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SAM FIRTH: solution and can offer safeguarding.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Thank you, Sam. So, Zara, you spoke at

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: the beginning about how the IWF can

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: identify this kind of content and take it

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: down. Why is there a need specifically

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: for a service like Report Remove?

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ZARA: Over the years we've seen a growth in the sharing

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ZARA: of nude images online of under-18s,

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ZARA: so we thought it'd be a good idea to provide a

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ZARA: service that not only helps young people

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ZARA: access support when things go wrong,

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ZARA: but also to be able to use

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ZARA: our expertise and our contacts within

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ZARA: the internet industry to block these images

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ZARA: and stop them from being shared online.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Who is Report Remove for?

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SAM FIRTH: Report Remove is for children and young people

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SAM FIRTH: in the UK who are under the age of 18.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: And if a young person wanted to use the

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: tool — they've looked for it online and

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: they've found the tool — what would they

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: then need to do?

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SAM FIRTH: So once they get onto the Report Remove page

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SAM FIRTH: on the Childline website, from there they

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SAM FIRTH: create or sign into a Childline

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SAM FIRTH: account. Then they have the option of proving

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SAM FIRTH: their age with I.D. such as a passport.

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SAM FIRTH: Once they've gone through that stage of the

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SAM FIRTH: reporting process, they need to attach the

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SAM FIRTH: image, the video or the direct URL for the

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SAM FIRTH: image or video to the report, and that will go

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SAM FIRTH: to IWF who will begin their work with it.

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SAM FIRTH: Childline never ever see the image or video,

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SAM FIRTH: but we will make contact with that child or

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SAM FIRTH: young person to keep them updated with how the

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SAM FIRTH: report is going and offer them other forms of

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SAM FIRTH: support as well.

00:09:30,210 → 00:09:31,649

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Why are young people asked if they'd like

00:09:31,650 → 00:09:32,909

CHLOE O'CONNOR: to prove their age?

00:09:32,910 → 00:09:35,909

ZARA: So children under 13 are not asked to prove

00:09:35,910 → 00:09:38,219

ZARA: their age. That's because our analysts have the

00:09:38,220 → 00:09:41,219

ZARA: visual expertise to assess that person in the image

00:09:41,220 → 00:09:42,220

ZARA: is underage.

00:09:42,750 → 00:09:45,569

ZARA: However, young people over the age of 13 are asked

00:09:45,570 → 00:09:48,569

ZARA: to choose to prove their age using I.D.,

00:09:48,570 → 00:09:51,569

ZARA: because that means the IWF can be certain that

00:09:51,570 → 00:09:54,479

ZARA: the image of the person is under 18, and

00:09:54,480 → 00:09:56,759

ZARA: then therefore we can get the image taken down from

00:09:56,760 → 00:09:58,589

ZARA: a lot more places.

00:09:58,590 → 00:10:00,659

ZARA: But if a child does not have I.D., they should

00:10:00,660 → 00:10:03,119

ZARA: still be encouraged to use Report Remove.

00:10:03,120 → 00:10:05,429

ZARA: This is because the IWF will still make an

00:10:05,430 → 00:10:08,099

ZARA: assessment of the age of that person in the image

00:10:08,100 → 00:10:10,319

ZARA: and in many cases will be able to use this

00:10:10,320 → 00:10:13,709

ZARA: assessment to be certain that it is a child.

00:10:13,710 → 00:10:16,349

ZARA: If IWF can't be certain that the content is of a

00:10:16,350 → 00:10:19,289

ZARA: child, then we can still ask tech companies

00:10:19,290 → 00:10:21,099

ZARA: to take it down.

00:10:21,100 → 00:10:23,679

ZARA: This means that the content can still be removed

00:10:23,680 → 00:10:26,259

ZARA: from lots of places and the young person can still

00:10:26,260 → 00:10:29,259

ZARA: choose to access emotional support from Childline.

00:10:29,260 → 00:10:31,209

CHLOE O'CONNOR: From the IWF's perspective, what happens

00:10:31,210 → 00:10:32,859

CHLOE O'CONNOR: at the point that a young person's made a

00:10:32,860 → 00:10:33,849

CHLOE O'CONNOR: report?

00:10:33,850 → 00:10:37,389

ZARA: So as Sam said, the young person will create

00:10:37,390 → 00:10:40,029

ZARA: an account. So once they've created their account,

00:10:40,030 → 00:10:43,569

ZARA: they'll be directed to the secure IWF portal

00:10:43,570 → 00:10:45,909

ZARA: to upload their content.

00:10:45,910 → 00:10:48,609

ZARA: After the report has been made, the person will

00:10:48,610 → 00:10:51,669

ZARA: receive a case number into their locker and

00:10:51,670 → 00:10:53,919

ZARA: they can refer back to this if they have any more

00:10:53,920 → 00:10:56,469

ZARA: communications to make about their report.

00:10:56,470 → 00:10:59,379

ZARA: So apart from selecting their age range, the

00:10:59,380 → 00:11:01,290

ZARA: only information the portal gives to IWF

00:11:02,320 → 00:11:05,169

ZARA: are their images and videos or URLs and

00:11:05,170 → 00:11:07,659

ZARA: these are, like I said, uploaded via a secure

00:11:07,660 → 00:11:10,149

ZARA: portal, so only the analysts here will see their

00:11:10,150 → 00:11:12,074

ZARA: content. Unfortunately, IWF cannot

00:11:13,510 → 00:11:16,389

ZARA: view content on end-to-end encrypted apps or

00:11:16,390 → 00:11:18,452

ZARA: websites such as WhatsApp and Snapchat, or

00:11:19,480 → 00:11:22,149

ZARA: content that's saved on another person's device.

00:11:22,150 → 00:11:25,059

ZARA: But if the young person still has the image,

00:11:25,060 → 00:11:26,929

ZARA: they should be encouraged that they can still make

00:11:26,930 → 00:11:29,110

ZARA: a report and upload those images to us,

00:11:30,280 → 00:11:32,529

ZARA: and then we will make sure that it's assessed

00:11:32,530 → 00:11:33,849

ZARA: against UK law.

00:11:33,850 → 00:11:36,699

ZARA: And if it's found to be criminal, we will get

00:11:36,700 → 00:11:38,320

ZARA: that removed as quickly as possible.

00:11:40,010 → 00:11:42,529

CHLOE O'CONNOR: And what did the IWF do to make sure that

00:11:42,530 → 00:11:43,999

CHLOE O'CONNOR: it does get removed?

00:11:44,000 → 00:11:47,029

ZARA: So we will use the law to work out if the content

00:11:47,030 → 00:11:48,677

ZARA: can be removed and if it breaks the law IWF

00:11:50,000 → 00:11:52,734

ZARA: will give it a digital fingerprint called a hash.

00:11:52,735 → 00:11:55,969

ZARA: So IWF can either send a takedown

00:11:55,970 → 00:11:59,029

ZARA: notice to a website or internet service provider

00:11:59,030 → 00:12:02,269

ZARA: if it's a URL, or it'll be blocked automatically

00:12:02,270 → 00:12:04,039

ZARA: depending on the way the hash was found.

00:12:05,270 → 00:12:08,629

ZARA: We share our hash lists with internet companies,

00:12:08,630 → 00:12:11,629

ZARA: including major social media platforms, so

00:12:11,630 → 00:12:14,599

ZARA: if an image— if that image is uploaded to

00:12:14,600 → 00:12:17,659

ZARA: the internet, again, it can be quickly removed

00:12:17,660 → 00:12:19,999

ZARA: or even stopped from being uploaded in the first

00:12:20,000 → 00:12:21,289

ZARA: place.

00:12:21,290 → 00:12:24,709

ZARA: IWF will let Childline know the outcome

00:12:24,710 → 00:12:27,649

ZARA: so they can contact the young person and let

00:12:27,650 → 00:12:29,959

ZARA: them know the outcome of their report and keep them

00:12:29,960 → 00:12:33,229

ZARA: updated and offer them further support.

00:12:33,230 → 00:12:36,229

ZARA: IWF try to review each Report Remove

00:12:36,230 → 00:12:39,379

ZARA: report within one working day and updates

00:12:39,380 → 00:12:42,709

ZARA: are sent to the locker on that day.

00:12:42,710 → 00:12:44,509

CHLOE O'CONNOR: That's really helpful. Thank you.

00:12:44,510 → 00:12:46,459

CHLOE O'CONNOR: And what happens if the image has been

00:12:46,460 → 00:12:47,869

CHLOE O'CONNOR: changed slightly? For example, if

00:12:47,870 → 00:12:49,429

CHLOE O'CONNOR: somebody has got a cropped part of the

00:12:49,430 → 00:12:50,430

CHLOE O'CONNOR: image?

00:12:51,210 → 00:12:54,059

ZARA: The technology that we use, it doesn't

00:12:54,060 → 00:12:57,419

ZARA: matter if the image has been

00:12:57,420 → 00:13:00,749

ZARA: doctored or in any way or cropped, as you say,

00:13:00,750 → 00:13:03,449

ZARA: we'll still be able to identify that image using

00:13:03,450 → 00:13:05,579

ZARA: the hash that we give it.

00:13:05,580 → 00:13:07,809

CHLOE O'CONNOR: That sounds really important.

00:13:07,810 → 00:13:10,379

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Do we know anything about how young

00:13:10,380 → 00:13:13,409

CHLOE O'CONNOR: people have responded to

00:13:13,410 → 00:13:14,789

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Report Remove and if it has made a difference

00:13:14,790 → 00:13:15,959

CHLOE O'CONNOR: to them?

00:13:15,960 → 00:13:19,229

SAM FIRTH: So I can give you an example of

00:13:19,230 → 00:13:21,950

SAM FIRTH: a 15-year-old male who's used Report Remove.

00:13:23,040 → 00:13:25,949

SAM FIRTH: So this person reported a number of images and

00:13:25,950 → 00:13:27,843

SAM FIRTH: videos, a mixture of images and videos.

00:13:27,844 → 00:13:30,779

SAM FIRTH: IWF assessed them all to

00:13:30,780 → 00:13:33,449

SAM FIRTH: be child sexual abuse material and therefore

00:13:33,450 → 00:13:36,029

SAM FIRTH: meeting the threshold to be removed from the

00:13:36,030 → 00:13:38,999

SAM FIRTH: internet. So then, as Childline,

00:13:39,000 → 00:13:40,769

SAM FIRTH: we were able to feed that back to the young

00:13:40,770 → 00:13:43,679

SAM FIRTH: person and offer some emotional support via

00:13:43,680 → 00:13:46,499

SAM FIRTH: the counselling team -- which they took that

00:13:46,500 → 00:13:48,779

SAM FIRTH: up and they were supported by our Childline

00:13:48,780 → 00:13:51,329

SAM FIRTH: counsellors for a period of about three

00:13:51,330 → 00:13:53,639

SAM FIRTH: months. They explained to our counsellors that

00:13:53,640 → 00:13:56,399

SAM FIRTH: the images and videos were sent to a female

00:13:56,400 → 00:13:57,809

SAM FIRTH: young person in trust.

00:13:57,810 → 00:14:00,179

SAM FIRTH: But then having been in school and reflecting

00:14:00,180 → 00:14:02,459

SAM FIRTH: on those general messages about online safety

00:14:02,460 → 00:14:05,219

SAM FIRTH: and nudes, they recognised their vulnerability

00:14:05,220 → 00:14:07,139

SAM FIRTH: and started to become a bit concerned about

00:14:07,140 → 00:14:08,849

SAM FIRTH: how that material might affect them in the

00:14:08,850 → 00:14:11,299

SAM FIRTH: future. And they told that Childline

00:14:11,300 → 00:14:13,049

SAM FIRTH: counsellor that they spoke to about the sense

00:14:13,050 → 00:14:16,199

SAM FIRTH: of relief that they had when those images

00:14:16,200 → 00:14:19,259

SAM FIRTH: and videos were removed and

00:14:19,260 → 00:14:21,749

SAM FIRTH: offering them future safeguarding as well.

00:14:21,750 → 00:14:23,704

SAM FIRTH: And actually after making their Report Remove

00:14:23,705 → 00:14:26,489

SAM FIRTH: report, that same young person got in touch

00:14:26,490 → 00:14:28,289

SAM FIRTH: with the platforms they shared those images

00:14:28,290 → 00:14:31,049

SAM FIRTH: and videos on and asked that platform provider

00:14:31,050 → 00:14:32,999

SAM FIRTH: to remove all other data as well, which the

00:14:33,000 → 00:14:34,200

SAM FIRTH: platform agreed to do.

00:14:35,440 → 00:14:39,599

SAM FIRTH: Yeah, so any sense of regret and anxiety,

00:14:39,600 → 00:14:41,589

SAM FIRTH: and also a feeling of 'life was over' that

00:14:41,590 → 00:14:44,189

SAM FIRTH: that young person was feeling; they were

00:14:44,190 → 00:14:47,355

SAM FIRTH: feeling now more reassured, more relieved.

00:14:53,010 → 00:14:55,199

SAM FIRTH: So Report Remove was really powerful for that

00:14:55,200 → 00:14:56,609

SAM FIRTH: young person.

00:14:56,610 → 00:14:57,929

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Thank you for that example of the

00:14:57,930 → 00:14:59,879

CHLOE O'CONNOR: positive impact that the Report Remove

00:14:59,880 → 00:15:02,099

CHLOE O'CONNOR: tool can have Sam. Zara, you mentioned

00:15:02,100 → 00:15:03,539

CHLOE O'CONNOR: earlier that you'd be assessing the

00:15:03,540 → 00:15:05,579

CHLOE O'CONNOR: content against UK law to see if it could

00:15:05,580 → 00:15:07,979

CHLOE O'CONNOR: be taken down. What happens if you aren't

00:15:07,980 → 00:15:10,049

CHLOE O'CONNOR: able to take the content down?

00:15:10,050 → 00:15:13,019

ZARA: We will tell Childline the outcome

00:15:13,020 → 00:15:16,109

ZARA: of our assessment and if it doesn't meet

00:15:16,110 → 00:15:19,649

ZARA: our criteria of breaking the law, then

00:15:19,650 → 00:15:22,499

ZARA: we will let Childline know why it

00:15:22,500 → 00:15:24,599

ZARA: doesn't quite meet our threshold and then they can

00:15:24,600 → 00:15:27,509

ZARA: convey that to the child and offer support in

00:15:27,510 → 00:15:28,510

ZARA: other ways.

00:15:29,598 → 00:15:31,039

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Great, thank you. And then Sam, what does

00:15:31,040 → 00:15:32,719

CHLOE O'CONNOR: that look like from a Childline perspective

00:15:32,720 → 00:15:34,009

CHLOE O'CONNOR: when you're sending that message to that

00:15:34,010 → 00:15:35,419

CHLOE O'CONNOR: young person to let them know it couldn't

00:15:35,420 → 00:15:36,589

CHLOE O'CONNOR: be taken down?

00:15:36,590 → 00:15:38,509

SAM FIRTH: So I try to give them as much information as I

00:15:38,510 → 00:15:40,549

SAM FIRTH: can and explain why it didn't quite meet the

00:15:40,550 → 00:15:42,649

SAM FIRTH: threshold, because it may be that the image

00:15:42,650 → 00:15:45,349

SAM FIRTH: felt nude to them, or there may be nudity in

00:15:45,350 → 00:15:46,759

SAM FIRTH: it, but it still doesn't quite meet that

00:15:46,760 → 00:15:49,159

SAM FIRTH: threshold for removal. So, I explain that

00:15:49,160 → 00:15:51,139

SAM FIRTH: situation to them.

00:15:51,140 → 00:15:53,209

SAM FIRTH: I also give them the options that might be

00:15:53,210 → 00:15:55,819

SAM FIRTH: available to them to take other actions which

00:15:55,820 → 00:15:58,069

SAM FIRTH: may involve going direct to platforms where

00:15:58,070 → 00:16:00,469

SAM FIRTH: they know the image might be and request for

00:16:00,470 → 00:16:03,169

SAM FIRTH: it to be taken down from— using their

00:16:03,170 → 00:16:05,419

SAM FIRTH: community rules.

00:16:05,420 → 00:16:07,999

SAM FIRTH: But we also offer them emotional support too.

00:16:08,000 → 00:16:09,799

SAM FIRTH: That can be through our counsellors or it can

00:16:09,800 → 00:16:11,729

SAM FIRTH: be through self-help tools like the coping

00:16:11,730 → 00:16:14,119

SAM FIRTH: kit. We also have a Calm Zone on the Childline

00:16:14,120 → 00:16:16,309

SAM FIRTH: website, which is really useful too, and it's

00:16:16,310 → 00:16:17,808

SAM FIRTH: very popular.

00:16:17,809 → 00:16:19,129

CHLOE O'CONNOR: That all sounds like really helpful wider

00:16:19,130 → 00:16:20,659

CHLOE O'CONNOR: support for young people.

00:16:20,660 → 00:16:22,429

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Is that something that young people need

00:16:22,430 → 00:16:24,439

CHLOE O'CONNOR: to engage with to use Report Remove?

00:16:24,440 → 00:16:26,949

CHLOE O'CONNOR: For example would a young person need to

00:16:26,950 → 00:16:28,369

CHLOE O'CONNOR: speak to a counsellor if they wanted to

00:16:28,370 → 00:16:29,370

CHLOE O'CONNOR: report content?

00:16:30,330 → 00:16:32,369

SAM FIRTH: No there's no need to engage with any other

00:16:32,370 → 00:16:33,958

SAM FIRTH: part of Childline. They can use Report Remove

00:16:35,550 → 00:16:37,679

SAM FIRTH: and that be it, and that be all they use from

00:16:37,680 → 00:16:39,779

SAM FIRTH: Childline. But if they do want that bit extra,

00:16:39,780 → 00:16:41,819

SAM FIRTH: there's lots of options available to them and

00:16:41,820 → 00:16:43,919

SAM FIRTH: they can pick and choose what feels right for

00:16:43,920 → 00:16:45,571

SAM FIRTH: them, what suits them as an individual, what

00:16:45,572 → 00:16:48,449

SAM FIRTH: fits in with how they like

00:16:48,450 → 00:16:51,239

SAM FIRTH: to communicate and be supported.

00:16:51,240 → 00:16:52,739

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Brilliant. So, if a young person is choosing

00:16:52,740 → 00:16:55,349

CHLOE O'CONNOR: to engage in that extra support or they

00:16:55,350 → 00:16:56,850

CHLOE O'CONNOR: have just used Report Remove — either way

00:16:56,851 → 00:16:59,309

CHLOE O'CONNOR: — is there a chance that anybody else

00:16:59,310 → 00:17:00,989

CHLOE O'CONNOR: would find out that that young person has

00:17:00,990 → 00:17:02,636

CHLOE O'CONNOR: spoken to Childline or has used Report

00:17:02,637 → 00:17:03,637

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Remove?

00:17:03,810 → 00:17:05,969

SAM FIRTH: Childline has a really high confidentiality

00:17:05,970 → 00:17:07,318

SAM FIRTH: threshold. You can have a look at the

00:17:07,319 → 00:17:09,809

SAM FIRTH: confidentiality promise on the website.

00:17:09,810 → 00:17:12,029

SAM FIRTH: It's beyond that of most of the services that

00:17:12,030 → 00:17:14,729

SAM FIRTH: work with the same age group and that same

00:17:14,730 → 00:17:17,578

SAM FIRTH: confidentiality promise that we offer through

00:17:17,579 → 00:17:20,489

SAM FIRTH: all our work applies to Report Remove as well.

00:17:20,490 → 00:17:22,318

SAM FIRTH: And it means we can keep so much more

00:17:22,319 → 00:17:24,299

SAM FIRTH: information private.

00:17:24,300 → 00:17:26,789

SAM FIRTH: It's only in very, very rare circumstances

00:17:26,790 → 00:17:28,709

SAM FIRTH: that someone who has used Report Remove would

00:17:28,710 → 00:17:30,419

SAM FIRTH: have any information passed on to someone

00:17:30,420 → 00:17:32,519

SAM FIRTH: else, should any further safeguarding be

00:17:32,520 → 00:17:35,459

SAM FIRTH: required. And we would always try to

00:17:35,460 → 00:17:37,499

SAM FIRTH: make sure the young person or the child is

00:17:37,500 → 00:17:39,839

SAM FIRTH: aware that we're having to do that and why.

00:17:39,840 → 00:17:42,149

SAM FIRTH: But again, it's in very, very rare

00:17:42,150 → 00:17:43,169

SAM FIRTH: circumstances.

00:17:44,199 → 00:17:46,349

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Zara, are you able to just talk a little

00:17:46,350 → 00:17:47,792

CHLOE O'CONNOR: bit more to confidentiality on the IWF

00:17:47,793 → 00:17:49,022

CHLOE O'CONNOR: side. I know you said before that IWF

00:17:51,660 → 00:17:52,889

CHLOE O'CONNOR: staff would never know who the young

00:17:52,890 → 00:17:54,689

CHLOE O'CONNOR: person is, they'd only see the confirmation

00:17:54,690 → 00:17:56,939

CHLOE O'CONNOR: that they're under 18 and receive the

00:17:56,940 → 00:17:58,949

CHLOE O'CONNOR: images, but in terms of making sure that

00:17:58,950 → 00:18:01,409

CHLOE O'CONNOR: it's being taken down, how do the IWF

00:18:01,410 → 00:18:03,179

CHLOE O'CONNOR: ensure that that stays confidential?

00:18:03,180 → 00:18:06,359

ZARA: So IWF analysts will view the content

00:18:06,360 → 00:18:08,939

ZARA: and assess whether it breaks the law in the UK.

00:18:11,180 → 00:18:14,269

ZARA: Only hashes are sent out to industry

00:18:14,270 → 00:18:16,909

ZARA: and our members to block the content.

00:18:16,910 → 00:18:18,979

ZARA: No one else will will see the images.

00:18:21,010 → 00:18:22,010

ZARA: So

00:18:24,040 → 00:18:26,529

ZARA: we use our bespoke hashing tool called

00:18:26,530 → 00:18:29,065

ZARA: 'Intelligrade', which was built in-house at

00:18:29,066 → 00:18:32,169

ZARA: Internet Watch Foundation, and we will tag

00:18:32,170 → 00:18:35,409

ZARA: these Report Remove images with a special tag

00:18:35,410 → 00:18:37,467

ZARA: to show that it's been self-reported.

00:18:39,130 → 00:18:42,099

ZARA: This will go out to industry

00:18:42,100 → 00:18:45,129

ZARA: as a 'self-reported image', so therefore

00:18:45,130 → 00:18:48,609

ZARA: when these hashes are shared with law enforcement,

00:18:48,610 → 00:18:51,129

ZARA: they know that it's been self-reported and

00:18:51,130 → 00:18:53,979

ZARA: therefore that person should not fear a

00:18:53,980 → 00:18:56,529

ZARA: knock on their door that they've been sharing child

00:18:56,530 → 00:18:57,759

ZARA: sexual abuse imagery.

00:18:59,520 → 00:19:01,739

CHLOE O'CONNOR: The hashes is what's shared with industry

00:19:01,740 → 00:19:03,359

CHLOE O'CONNOR: members — the image itself is never

00:19:03,360 → 00:19:04,289

CHLOE O'CONNOR: shared.

00:19:04,290 → 00:19:05,609

ZARA: That's right. It's just the hash.

00:19:06,750 → 00:19:09,659

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Brilliant. Thank you. So that

00:19:09,660 → 00:19:11,009

CHLOE O'CONNOR: also means that the risk of the police

00:19:11,010 → 00:19:13,619

CHLOE O'CONNOR: getting involved, is that restricted to

00:19:13,620 → 00:19:15,059

CHLOE O'CONNOR: only if it's needed as part of a

00:19:15,060 → 00:19:16,060

CHLOE O'CONNOR: safeguarding response?

00:19:19,410 → 00:19:22,439

ZARA: Yes. If we spot any

00:19:22,440 → 00:19:25,469

ZARA: potential safeguarding issues, we can relay that

00:19:25,470 → 00:19:27,899

ZARA: to Childline, who will do their own risk

00:19:27,900 → 00:19:28,900

ZARA: assessment.

00:19:29,810 → 00:19:31,220

CHLOE O'CONNOR: And how can young people find Report

00:19:31,221 → 00:19:32,221

CHLOE O'CONNOR: Remove?

00:19:32,630 → 00:19:34,579

SAM FIRTH: So Report Remove is available on the Childline

00:19:34,580 → 00:19:36,409

SAM FIRTH: website using the URL childline.org.uk/remove.

00:19:39,890 → 00:19:42,319

SAM FIRTH: You can also search Report Remove Childline on

00:19:42,320 → 00:19:44,959

SAM FIRTH: Google and it should appear top of the search.

00:19:44,960 → 00:19:46,969

SAM FIRTH: Professionals and parents can also visit

00:19:46,970 → 00:19:47,970

SAM FIRTH: nspcc.org.uk/report-remove

00:19:52,100 → 00:19:53,719

SAM FIRTH: to learn more about the tool from an adult's

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SAM FIRTH: perspective.

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SAM FIRTH: We're encouraging professionals, such

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SAM FIRTH: as teachers for example, to become aware of

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SAM FIRTH: the tool so that they can support young people

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SAM FIRTH: who might approach them.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Is there anything out there that can help

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: professionals tell young people about

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Report Remove and how to use it?

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SAM FIRTH: So the NSPCC has an online elearning

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SAM FIRTH: course that professionals can access to find

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SAM FIRTH: out more about the subject of managing

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SAM FIRTH: incidents of sharing nudes and how to support

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SAM FIRTH: young people.

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SAM FIRTH: There's also some printouts

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SAM FIRTH: that are aimed at professionals that work with

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SAM FIRTH: young people, again, accessible from NSPCC

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SAM FIRTH: Learning. We've also got some videos

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SAM FIRTH: which can be accessed from the NSPCC

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SAM FIRTH: website or the Childline website, just to find

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SAM FIRTH: out a bit more. And again, professionals can

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SAM FIRTH: look at the Report Remove tool on the website

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SAM FIRTH: just to become familiar with it, find out

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SAM FIRTH: where it is, what it looks like, and just

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SAM FIRTH: become more confident that there is a tool out

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SAM FIRTH: there to support the young people they work

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SAM FIRTH: with.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Thank you. That's really helpful because

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: I can imagine it can be quite challenging

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: to have that kind of conversation with

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: young people, especially if you're talking

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: to a large group of young people about

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: something that's potentially sensitive.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: So that's useful that the video is there

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: to, sort of, do the talking for them and

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: then give all the extra information

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: around it to help answer any questions.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Is there any particular time that's

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: important to share information about

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Report Remove, for example when an

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: incident has occurred or in general?

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SAM FIRTH: I think any time is a good time.

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SAM FIRTH: We know that the most common age range

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SAM FIRTH: for using Report Remove is at the later

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SAM FIRTH: teens, but we do get young people under the

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SAM FIRTH: age of 13 using the tool as well.

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SAM FIRTH: It's useful to share with young people before

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SAM FIRTH: an incident occurs so they are aware of Report

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SAM FIRTH: Remove and they know it's there should they

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SAM FIRTH: need it, but also should they find themselves

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SAM FIRTH: in a situation where they are worried about an

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SAM FIRTH: image, to find out about it then is also very

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SAM FIRTH: helpful. It's a safeguarding tool, it

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SAM FIRTH: can help them either before a situation

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SAM FIRTH: occurs or after.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Okay, so if a young person has disclosed

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: that a nude image of them has been shared

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: online, either to a professional, be it a

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: teacher or a coach or anyone like that,

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: or even their parent — that a nude image

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: has been shared and they would like support

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: with that. How can an adult support them

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: with Report Remove?

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SAM FIRTH: So the adult can show them the Report Remove

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SAM FIRTH: tool on the website.

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SAM FIRTH: They can maybe show them the videos about the

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SAM FIRTH: tool to help that young person build their

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SAM FIRTH: confidence. But in terms of making a report,

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SAM FIRTH: the young person can do that entirely

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SAM FIRTH: independently.

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SAM FIRTH: They don't need an adult to give any kind

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SAM FIRTH: of permission or anything like that.

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SAM FIRTH: Report Remove is completely free to use, so

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SAM FIRTH: there should never be any exchange of money

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SAM FIRTH: for nudes to be removed from the internet.

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SAM FIRTH: A young person doesn't have to pay to use

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SAM FIRTH: Report Remove at all.

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SAM FIRTH: We've tested the tool in consultation

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SAM FIRTH: with children and young people, to make sure

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SAM FIRTH: that it's clear, that it's easy to follow and

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SAM FIRTH: that it's user friendly, so that it can be

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SAM FIRTH: used completely independently by young people.

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ZARA: Many young people are using Report Remove, so

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ZARA: we know we are providing a valuable service.

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ZARA: So we would like you to encourage young people

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ZARA: that are worried that their nude images have been

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ZARA: shared online, to encourage them to report to us

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ZARA: and we will do our best to get those images

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ZARA: removed and prevented from being

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ZARA: uploaded again in the future.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: Thank you very much. That sounds really

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: powerful that young people have a tool

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: where they can take action themselves to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: report something that's been happening to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: them and to have an action taken from it,

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: to have that content removed.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: And also especially important that it can

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: help stop it being shared again in the

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: future, like in that example that you

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: shared Sam, for that young person, even

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: if there wasn't an immediate worry, to

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: know that it couldn't be shared online

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: again in the future sounds like a really

00:23:43,570 → 00:23:45,489

CHLOE O'CONNOR: reassuring thing for young people.

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: So thank you both so much today for

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: joining us to talk about Report Remove

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: and how it works and how it can support

00:23:52,180 → 00:23:54,309

CHLOE O'CONNOR: young people. If anybody listening to

00:23:54,310 → 00:23:56,079

CHLOE O'CONNOR: this episode would like to find out more

00:23:56,080 → 00:23:58,119

CHLOE O'CONNOR: information, all of the resources that

00:23:58,120 → 00:23:59,979

CHLOE O'CONNOR: we've mentioned today, so those videos

00:23:59,980 → 00:24:01,809

CHLOE O'CONNOR: and the printouts and the wider information,

00:24:01,810 → 00:24:03,429

CHLOE O'CONNOR: can be seen in the show notes from

00:24:03,430 → 00:24:04,869

CHLOE O'CONNOR: today's episode.

00:24:04,870 → 00:24:06,669

CHLOE O'CONNOR: The Report Remove tool itself is

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: available on the Childline website at

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CHLOE O'CONNOR: childline.org.uk/remove.

00:24:12,160 → 00:24:14,799

CHLOE O'CONNOR: NSPCC Learning also offers an elearning

00:24:14,800 → 00:24:16,569

CHLOE O'CONNOR: course on managing incidents of sharing

00:24:16,570 → 00:24:19,419

CHLOE O'CONNOR: nudes. So thank you very much

00:24:19,420 → 00:24:20,559

CHLOE O'CONNOR: for your time today.

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SAM FIRTH: Thank you.

00:24:21,400 → 00:24:22,400

ZARA: Thank you very much.

00:24:26,120 → 00:24:28,489

OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning

00:24:28,490 → 00:24:29,779

OUTRO: podcast.

00:24:29,780 → 00:24:32,419

OUTRO: At the time of recording this episode, content

00:24:32,420 → 00:24:35,059

OUTRO: wasn't today, but the world of safeguarding and

00:24:35,060 → 00:24:37,399

OUTRO: child protection is ever changing.

00:24:37,400 → 00:24:39,469

OUTRO: So if you're looking for the most current

00:24:39,470 → 00:24:42,199

OUTRO: safeguarding and child protection, training,

00:24:42,200 → 00:24:45,199

OUTRO: information or resources, please visit

00:24:45,200 → 00:24:48,919

OUTRO: our website for professionals at NSPCC.

00:24:48,920 → 00:24:51,679

OUTRO: TalkTalk UK Forward Slash Learning.

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