00:00:05 You are listening to The Evidence Locker. Thank you for choosing our podcast. Our sponsors make it possible for us to keep bringing you new episodes. Please support them as they have some great deals just for you, our listeners. If you prefer to listen to ad-free content, simply find us on Patreon where plan start from as little as $2.00 a month. 00:00:25 25% of these proceeds are donated to the DOE Network, working to bring closure to international cold cases. For more information, follow the link in the show notes. 00:00:37 Today's episode is brought to you by Gusto, a convenient and sustainable meal delivery service for cooking delicious, healthy meals at home. For 60% off your first box and 25% off all boxes for two months, head to gusto.co.uk and use code evidence. 00:00:55 Our cases deal with true crimes and real people. Some parts of graphic in nature and listener discretion is advised. Each episode is produced with the utmost respect to the victims, their families. And loved ones. 00:01:09 On a summer morning in Westchester County, New York, a Hilton hotel woke up to news of a terrible murder within its walls. 00:01:16 The victim, a millionaire and heir to a hotel empire, was found tied up, bludgeoned, and covered in blood. Rumours of affairs, unsavoury fetishes, immeasurable greed, and family ties circled the murder case. But one of the most shocking aspects of this hotel heir’s murder was the fact that it wasn’t the first one. 00:01:35 Three months earlier, his mother was also killed. But at the time, it was deemed an accident by the police, despite the victim suffering from obvious and suspicious injuries. 00:01:46 Two millionaires from the same family were dead and a fortune was up for grabs. At the time of the second murder, in that New York hotel room, a conference was taking place, with over one thousand people in attendance. 00:01:59 Police had to do due diligence and question every hotel guest. 00:02:04 A man with as many connections as the victim could have made a lot of enemies along the way, or at least brushed shoulders with others, desperate to get a hand on his wealth. 00:02:13 But detectives didn’t need to look very far for the likely culprit. 00:02:17 Their suspicions were immediately hard at work examining the person he shared his bed with: his wife of nineteen years… 00:02:57 The Fontainebleau. An ocean front paradise for the rich, the famous, and the royal. Located on the vibrant beach of Miami, this luxury hotel still gives guests vacation memories to last a lifetime. Firmly set on the aptly named Millionaire’s Row, the hotel opened in 1954 and quickly became a hot spot for Miami high society. 00:03:20 The hotel was built by Benjamin Novack who owned and operated the establishment until 1977. 00:03:27 Benjamin’s wife, Bernice Novack was a central figure in Miami social circles. She was a former Coca-Cola model and met with celebrities, foreign dignitaries and politicians in their penthouse suite. 00:03:38 Together, with their young son, the Novack’s became Miami royalty. Over the decades, the hotel has been heavily featured in movies and television such as James Bond, The Bodyguard, The Sopranos, and more recently The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. 00:03:54 Celebrities including Marylyn Monroe, Elvis Presley, Bob Hope, Judy Garland, and Lucile Ball have all spent the night there. But this story isn’t about the hotel. It’s about its famous heir, Ben Novack Junior. 00:04:07 Ben grew up in the glitz and glamour of this iconic American hotel. Holding the legacy of his last name, Benjamin took advantage of his connections and his power. His parents were famous and spent their time with famous people. He grew up running around a fancy hotel. But that didn’t mean his life was perfect. As a young boy, Ben admitted to feeling lonely. 00:04:28 He was surrounded by adults and lacked any sort of meaningful peer friendships. He felt as though a lot of his childhood memories were forced and staged by the adults in his life because he didn’t have friends his own age. So, he lost himself in the world of comics. His favourite hero was Batman. 00:04:45 When he got older, he furthered his childhood obsession, and eventually owned one of the largest collections of memorabilia in the world. He even had his own Batmobile. 00:04:55 Along with the money, he inherited his parent’s business skills. He wasn’t just a fun-loving comic book nerd; he was a savvy businessman with a passion for his job. He wanted to get into the convention business and make a name for himself, apart from just his family legacy. 00:05:12 Remaining in the hotel business, he set out to make a fortune. And that’s exactly what he did. He booked hotel conventions and made a hefty profit with each booking. 00:05:21 Sadly, one of these conventions would one day be the setting to his demise. But long before that, he indulged in a different sort of interest. Ben had a proclivity for strippers and prostitutes. One day he wandered into a strip club in Miami and his life would never be the same again. That day, he met a formidable force: a stripper named Narcy. 00:05:49 We'll take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Are you tired of the same old boring meals night after night? Gusto is here to spice things up with their delicious and easy to make recipes. 00:06:01 With over 200 recipes to choose from each month, gusto has something for everyone. 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Give it a try today and discover why it's quickly becoming the go to meal delivery service for people all across the UK. 00:07:06 And don't just take my word for it. Try it out for yourself as a listener of Evidence Locker podcast, you can get a special discount on your first custom box. Simply visit the website at gusto.co.uk and enter the code evidence for 60% off your first box and 25% off all boxes for two months. 00:07:26 You'll find the link to Gusto's website in the show. Back to today's episode. 00:07:34 Narcisa Cira Veliz Pacheco moved to Miami in 1983. She grew up in a rural community in Ecuador but did not seem to have any interest in staying there. She was the youngest of six kids and considered to be the family favourite. 00:07:48 Her older brothers were fiercely protective of her. When she was just seventeen years old, she met and married and man named Angel. They had a daughter, May Abad. When she was four years old the young family packed up everything and moved to New York City. 00:08:02 The marriage quickly went sour after the move, however, and it wouldn’t take long for Angel to leave his wife and daughter. Narcy remained in New York as a single mother working hard to provide for her daughter. She took up a job as a seamstress, but always felt she was destined for greater things. 00:08:19 Narcy dreamed of a life of luxury… She did not want to work on the dresses of New York socialites, she wanted to wear them herself. Not just that, she wanted to own them and a hundred more. She dreamed of posh parties, fancy cars and luxury yachts. With a feverish passion, she thought about how she could turn her life around and live out her lifelong fantasy. 00:08:40 She wanted a different lifestyle, one where she didn’t have to stress about money or paying rent. But later, she would take that dream too far. 00:08:50 In the summer of 1983, Narcy decided to move to Miami with her daughter to start over. She didn’t speak English that well and struggled to find work at first. In order to make good money fast, to support herself and her daughter Narcy took a job as a stripper. 00:09:07 She probably also realised that this was a great way to meet wealthy men who were willing to pay big bucks for whatever they wanted. Not too long after starting her job, she hit paydirt when a 27-year-old millionaire walked into her place of work. She gave him a lap dance and the pair had an instant connection. 00:09:27 Ben Novack Jr. enjoyed his sexual fun and games. He seemed to be drawn to sex workers and strippers because he loved playing the knight in shining armour. When Narcy discovered he was a millionaire she thought she found her golden ticket. And she wasn’t far off: Ben typically sought out desperate women so he could save them. And Narcy was desperate for a wealthy companion to wine and dine her. It was a match made in heaven. Until it wasn’t. 00:09:53 Ben showered Narcy with gifts, took her on amazing vacations, and gave her large amounts of money. Narcy grew even more enchanted with the finer things in life. Ben’s family was not exactly thrilled about this new romance. 00:10:06 His father had already passed away by that time, and his mother Bernice was extremely close with her son. He would call her on a daily basis and valued her opinion. But his mother’s opinion about Narcy did not stop Ben from continuing the relationship. Bernice Novack hoped he would find a nice Miami socialite, probably from a well-to-do family. She did not envision her son having an invested relationship with a stripper. 00:10:30 In 1991 Narcy finally got what she wanted when she and Ben tied the knot. From the outset, Narcy was actively involved in her husband’s business affairs. She went to the conventions, dealt with the bookings, and worked with clients. She had a knack for it. But she still preferred a life of leisure: buying endless dresses and living the life of a millionaire without a care in the world. Narcy became a compulsive shopper, while Ben became the second biggest Batman collector in the world. They enjoyed their mansion, their vacations, their cars, and their Michelin star dinners. 00:11:05 Narcy’s daughter, May Abad (in her late teens at the time), also moved in with them. She got along very well with Ben, and they established a strong father daughter relationship. Ben was able to become the father figure she never had. For 18 years, Narcy, Ben, and May all lived, loved and laughed together in luxury. 00:11:26 But life wasn’t always good for Ben. On April 4th, 2009, his mother Bernice unexpectedly died. Her neighbour discovered the matriarch’s body in her Fort Lauderdale home. Her death was ruled an accident, despite glaringly obvious circumstance that hinted something foul was at play. 00:11:44 She left a path of blood from her car, through her kitchen all the way to her laundry room. Police deemed her death an accident due to a freak fall the elderly woman must have taken whilst being home alone one day. It was believed that she hit her head on her car mirror and struggled and bled all the way into her home where she eventually died. 00:12:04 Ben was absolutely devastated by this news. He became depressed and lost after his mother’s death. Narcy went to the funeral and played the role of the doting wife. In order to cope, Ben dove deeper into his work at his company Convention Concepts Unlimited. 00:12:22 On July 12th, 2009, Ben and Narcy were working in New York. Ben was handling a large conference he booked at a Rye Brook hotel. More than one thousand employees from Amway Global International, a prestigious client of Ben’s filled the Hilton hotel. 00:12:37 Ben was up all night working on the details, ensuring that the conference went off without a hitch. The morning of the 12th, Narcy left their room number 452 around 7am to have breakfast with her daughter May Abad. When she returned to the room nearly a half hour later, she found her husband bound and bleeding on the floor. He was no longer alive. 00:12:57 Just three months after the death of Bernice, another member of the famous Novack family had died. In the case of Ben, police automatically ruled his death a homicide. Ben was wearing nothing but his underwear, his legs were duct taped together below the knees and his hands were taped behind his back. 00:13:16 He was hit in the head with an object while still on the bed, most likely while he was still asleep. After he was bludgeoned to death, his attacker left him on the floor, face down. When police arrived, the bed was covered in blood, which spilled out onto the floor, around his lifeless body. A macabre detail was that Ben’s eyes were gouged out. This murder was brutal and callous and pointed to being personal. 00:13:43 Narcy talked to the police at the scene and immediately suggested it was a robbery. But nothing in the room was missing. In fact, an envelope with several hundred dollars was still there, untouched. If it were a robbery, wouldn’t valuables be missing? Surely cash would have been the first thing the robber would have taken. 00:14:01 Narcy also told police that Ben had been in an argument with someone from one of the comic cons he attended. The dispute was about money and in the course of the argument, the man supposedly threatened Ben. All of this was only according to Narcy. Detectives followed up, but nothing suspicious came up and that lead was quickly abandoned. 00:14:20 The Novack family had once had connections with the Mafia. Briefly, investigators considered this trail, but felt they were grasping at straws. The connections were made in Ben Senior’s time, and Ben Jr was not involved in the Mafia in any way. 00:14:36 Police decided to focus on Narcy, whose behaviour in light of the death of her husband seemed suspicious. They found her to be very controlled yet asked bizarre questions that made no sense given the context. She asked if he might have died from a heart attack. 00:14:51 This made police look at her differently considering he was found bloody and tied up. How could it have been a heart attack when his head was bashed in? Narcy was asked to come into the station for further questioning. Her answers to their questions showed that her story and perspective just weren’t adding up. 00:15:09 She told police she tripped over his body when she came back from breakfast and dialled the operator on the phone as she screamed. But she also said that she didn’t remember there being any blood, which seemed impossible given the state of the room in the aftermath of the murder. 00:15:23 She also mentioned rubbing his leg as she sat next to his body. Again, why would she hold his leg, and not his head where most of the damage was done? And still, how could she not see the blood? 00:15:35 Investigators were also trying to figure out how the killer got into the room. Narcy was the only person who had a key to the room. The hotel had electronic door locks that recorded the time and date every single time the keys were used. According to the hotel data, the key had last been used at 11:30 the night before. The only time the key was used after that was when Narcy entered the room after her breakfast around 7:30 in the morning. Narcy’s key was the only key used. 00:16:04 A hotel witness told police they saw a woman that matched Narcy’s description walking around the hotel with two men. Narcy denied those claims when confronted by police about the account. Investigators were more and more convinced that Narcy played a role in the murder of her husband, Ben Novack Jr. 00:16:20 May Abad shared the detective’s suspicions about her mother. She cooperated with police and revealed that her parent’s marriage wasn’t in the greatest place. Ben apparently had a lot of trouble staying faithful to his wife. Despite being married, Ben continued to indulge his fascination with strippers and prostitutes. May believed that her mother was not necessarily jealous that her husband was cheating on her, but more upset about the possibility of divorce. 00:16:46 Narcy feared being left by him for another woman. If he decided to divorce her, Narcy would lose her current lifestyle. This wasn’t a new fear. In 2002, Narcy arranged a home invasion. She hired men to break into the home she shared with Ben, tied Ben up and hold him hostage for twenty-five hours. 00:17:06 Her daughter claimed that Narcy always liked getting her way and would sometimes go to desperate lengths to do so. She wanted to scare her husband into not leaving her. Although Ben reported the incident to police, he dropped the charges, and it was chalked up to a domestic dispute. The evidence wasn’t clear about this being a violent hostage situation or a kinky sex game between a married couple. 00:17:31 During questioning after Ben’s murder, Narcy brought police pictures Ben kept. They were pictures of porn stars and underaged sex workers. Many of the photographs were of girls with amputations. Narcy insisted her husband had a fetish for sleeping with sex workers who were missing limbs. 00:17:48 She brought the police these pictures to prove that Ben was in to BDSM and acted out sexual fantasies. Most likely she was also attempting to tarnish his character and reveal some of the skeletons Ben kept in his closet. But why? 00:18:04 Detectives still didn’t have enough evidence to charge Narcy despite everything pointing to her. They decided to take Narcy and her daughter back to their hotel after questioning. During this time, her daughter begged her mother to tell her the truth. Narcy told her to remember that she was her daughter but said nothing more. 00:18:22 Three days later Fort Lauderdale police were called to the Novack home for a domestic disturbance. May Abad told police that when her flight arrived from New York, she went straight to the house to look for evidence to support her mother’s guilt. While she was going through documents, Narcy found her rummaging in her things and went at her with a crowbar. 00:18:41 Narcy called her a traitor. Narcy told police that May was the one who started the fight and that she tried to start a fire in the house. This prompted Narcy to pick up the crowbar in self-defence. 00:18:52 Four days after Ben’s murder, police searched Ben and Narcy’s residence in Fort Lauderdale. They seized security tapes, documents, computers, bills and five rolls of duct tape. The walls were closing in on Narcy Novack… Worried her mother might inherit her stepfather’s money, May hired a lawyer to freeze her stepfather’s estate. She also contacted the New York detectives to share more evidence, a few months later. 00:19:16 In 2008, Ben started having an affair with a porn star named Rebecca Bliss. The affair turned into a serious relationship, one that Narcy was aware of. May told police that Ben had been talking about leaving Narcy which caused her to go into panic mode. May Abad believed the thought of an impending divorce was enough to cause her mother to kill. 00:19:38 The pre-nuptial arrangement did not favour Narcy. In the case of divorce, Narcy would lose out on his millions and only be left with $60,000. In the event of Ben’s death, Narcy would still lose out. Ben’s will declared that the bulk of his assets and wealth would go to his mother, not his wife. But his mother was dead. She only just died three months before Ben. So, what did this mean for Narcy? 00:20:04 Narcy’s brother Cristobal Veliz was also brought in for questioning by police. He told them that the mastermind behind the murder was Narcy’s daughter and his niece, May Abad. He believed this is why she took so long to tell the police about Ben’s humiliating affair with a porn star. To make matters worse for May Abad, Narcy told the FBI that she discovered explicit love letters written by Ben to his stepdaughter. Cristobal said he could prove May had hired a killer to kill Ben and frame her mother. The man’s name was Alejandro Garcia. 00:20:36 In November 2009, Alejandro Garcia was arrested for an unrelated crime. While being held by police, they asked him about the Novack murder. Understanding his position, Garcia cut a deal and confessed to the murder, stating that he had in fact been hired to kill Ben Novack Jr. But according to him, it wasn’t May Abad who hired him. It was Cristobal Veliz. 00:21:00 According to Garcia, Veliz paid him $5,000 to kill Ben. There was even CCTV footage of Garcia picking up the money receipt from Cristobal. Unfortunately, police were able to obtain any receipts at Cristobal’s house that confirmed the payment. Garcia knew he was already going to jail, so he cooperated with investigators and told them everything, including the shocking fact that this wasn’t the first murder he committed under the hired hand of Cristobal Veliz. 00:21:27 In April of 2009, Garcia was hired to kill Bernice Novack. As she pulled into her garage, Garcia came up behind her and beat her with a monkey wrench, striking a brutal blow to her face. 00:21:40 Naturally, the Fort Lauderdale police were a little apprehensive to admit they blundered the investigation into Bernice’s murder by ruling it an accident. Journalist Julie Knipe Brown covered the story and antagonized the police for their blatant mishandling of Bernice Novack’s death. Nearly three months after her death, the autopsy was still not complete, which caused the journalist to pry further. 00:22:03 According to a CBS article written by Brown, she… “…uncovered a series of tawdry family secrets involving kinky sex, adultery, amputee porn, voodoo and a strange home invasion in which Ben Jr. accused his wife of tying him up, beating him with a gun and threatening to kill him. In the police report, Bernice Novack told detectives that she believed that Narcy Novack had also tried to poison her.” 00:22:29 According to police reports, Bernice sustained massive head injuries, and a broken jaw and finger. Detectives never took fingerprints or DNA samples for some reason, making the case all the more peculiar. Ben Jr. seemed to feel as though something wasn’t right and told detectives that the glass of wine on the table of her house was out of place because his mother didn’t drink white wine. Police also didn’t interview a neighbour who would have told them that he saw strange men prowling outside the house the weeks leading up to her death. 00:22:59 Those men were later identified as Alejandro Garcia and his accomplice Joel Gonzales. 00:23:05 And this was all orchestrated by Narcy Novack, together with her brother Cristobal Veliz. In order for Narcy to inherent Ben’s fortune, his mother Bernice needed to be out of the way. During the trial, Garcia testified that: “The plan was to hit her in the teeth and give her a good beating.” 00:23:24 So, Narcy Novack let Garcia and Gonzales into her husband’s hotel room on the morning of July 12, 2009. While Ben was sleeping, she led the men right to his bedside. The pair started beating him. Narcy even handed Garcia a pillow to muffle Ben’s screams. She then ordered one of the men to cut Ben’s eyes out. Alejandro’s statements about the events of that morning matched the evidence found by police. When Garcia was arrested, he had a wrinkled-up picture in his pocket. It was a picture of Narcy’s daughter, May Abad. Apparently, she was next on his list. Narcy and her brother Cristobal had hired him to kill her too. 00:24:08 Ben’s body remained at Westchester County morgue for two months. This prompted police to investigate as to why nothing was happening with his body and what was taking his family so long to bury him. 00:24:20 According to Julie Knipe Brown’s article, instead of planning his funeral, Narcy was… “…raiding ben’s Batman collection, stashing cash from his company coffers and sneaking into his safe deposit boxes by fooling bank tellers into believing her husband, alive and well at home. Would return with a permission slip.” 00:24:37 The list of suspects eventually rose to five. Narcy Novack, Cristobal Veliz, Alejandro Garcia, Joel Gonzales and Denis Ramirez. Ramirez was the father of two of Cristobal’s grandchildren. An indictment described Ramirez as the one who drove Gonzales and an unnamed conspirator to the hotel on July 10. It is believed Ramirez also drove them to the hotel on the morning of Ben’s murder. The day after the announcement of Ramirez’s involvement, he turned himself in. 00:25:07 On July 8th 2010, Narcy and her brother were arrested for murder. A year after that, they were indicted for Bernice Novack’s murder. On April 23, 2012, they both stood trial. Cristobal took the stand in his own defence, which proved to be disastrous for him. He contradicted himself on multiple occasions. Despite police having video footage of Garcia and Gonzales scoping out the hotel, Narcy and Cristobal denied any involvement. Phone records also found correspondence between Narcy and her brother dating back two years, implying that might have been planning the murders for a while. 00:25:43 Rebecca Bliss, Ben’s mistress was called to the stand. She revealed that Ben was planning on leaving Narcy. In an interview with 48 Hours, Rebecca revealed that Ben told her that he was unhappy in his marriage and was willing to take their relationship to the next level. According to her, he told her he loved her every day and made sure to let her know that he was there for her. Narcy called Rebecca and confronted her about the affair. 00:26:08 Narcy offered Rebecca money in exchange for leaving Ben, but Rebecca refused. At one point Narcy claimed to be Rebecca and had the electricity turned off at her apartment. Rebecca also claimed that Narcy called up her condo where she lived and told them that Ben was unable to pay rent on the apartment because he was dead. This was six months before he died. According to Bliss, Narcy told her that if she couldn’t have him, no one could. 00:26:35 On the stand, Narcy and Cristobal blamed each other for being the one pulling the strings in hopes of getting lighter sentences. Narcy’s attorney argued that she should only get 27 years in prison because her brother was the true orchestrator. Cristobal continued accusing his niece, May Abad as the mastermind, despite those claims being investigated and dismissed by detectives. 00:26:55 The assigned judge, U.S. District Judge Kenneth M. Karas called them both “vile”. Narcy was convicted of 12 of the 13 counts against her. Her brother was convicted of 14 of 15 counts against him. This conviction meant that Narcy lost all her rights to the inheritance she’d hoped to claim; under the Florida Slayer’s Statute, she was forced to forfeit her claim to her late husband’s $10 million estate. Her personal assets were also seized. May Abad’s two sons are now designated to inherit Ben’s estate. 00:27:27 Prosecutors said Narcy paid her brother to hire two hit men. The killers testified that Cristobal recruited them and relayed instructions from Narcy on how to carry out the assaults. Those instructions included binding Ben and slashing his eyes out. They revealed that they arrived at the Hilton hotel the morning of July 12. Narcy let them into her husband’s room, directed them to her sleeping husband and gave them a pillow to muffle his screams. They used dumbbells to beat the defenceless Ben until he was unconscious and left him for dead. Garcia said that the plan was to seriously injure both Ben and Bernice, not kill them. 00:28:02 Narcy waived the right to hear her sentence and refused to be in the courtroom as they read it out. She was led out of the courtroom by deputy US Marshals. Judge Karas viewed this act as one last form of cowardice. 00:28:14 Assistant US Attorney Elliot Jacobson claimed: “The defendants are pathological liars. They are extraordinarily dangerous sociopaths.” During the trial he continued, “They are responsible for the death of two innocent human beings, and they must be made to pay.” 00:28:30 Narcy Novack and Cristobal Veliz were both found guilty and sentenced to life without parole and according to Westchester District Attorney Janet DiFiore, the pair were… “…finally being held accountable for their gruesome and brutal conduct…it was pure greed that drove their evil scheme to steal millions of dollars from the Novack family by murdering Ben Novack Jr. and his mother Bernice Novack.” 00:28:50 How police initially thought Bernice’s death could have been an accident is still puzzling. When an 87-year-old woman appears as battered as Bernice was how could they write it off as a fall? She left a blood trail through the house and her injuries were severe. Thankfully, the culprit behind her murder was caught and properly sentenced. 00:29:10 This case does leave us with much mystery. Most of the pieces were put together relatively quickly by investigators. Those responsible for the crime left massive clues for detectives to find and once certain pieces of evidence and testimony were gathered, police were able to quickly get the people responsible off the streets and behind bars, unable to hurt anyone else. May Abad is lucky authorities were able to figure out the plan so quickly and save her from becoming Narcy’s next victim. 00:29:36 How could a mother resort to contemplating killing her own daughter? Was wealth and fortune really worth that much to Narcy? Was she blinded by her obsession with money? It would seem so. She was desperate enough to kill two people in order for her to inherit a fortune she fell into. There seemed to be no limit to her greed and her dream of living the life of an heiress. 00:30:01 But she’ll never have that life. Instead she will live out the rest of her life in a Florida prison. She is currently in Federal Correctional Institution Tallahassee and according to a NY Post report, she has become fast friends with another inmate with a million-dollar background: Ghislaine Maxwell. The pair reportedly “spend hours talking, laughing, and joking.” 00:30:23 Narcy has served over ten years in prison and an insider claims that: “Because of her length of time inside and the brutality of her crime, she is treated like a female don. All the younger girls address her as Miss Novack out of respect.” 00:30:37 Narcy risked everything to gain wealth and social status. She was willing to murder her husband and mother-in-law in brutal, vile ways despite never laying a hand on one of the weapons. She was the mastermind, and her mind was only on one thing: Money. 00:30:57 We'd like to thank today's sponsors Gusto for 60% off your first box and 25% off all boxes for two months. Go to gusto.co.uk and use code evidence. 00:31:08 If you'd like to read more about this case, have a look at the resources used for this episode in the show notes. Also visit us on social media to see more about today's case – we’re on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. You can also check out our channel on YouTube. If you like what we do here at Evidence Locker, subscribe in Apple Podcast or wherever you are listening right now – and kindly leave a 5-star review. 00:31:28 This was The Evidence Locker. Thank you for listening!