00:00:02:08 - 00:00:30:12 Old fashioned man 1 Salute to British ingenuity. Behold the ubiquitous mobile home, a two wheeled tribute to the British spirit of adaptability and to the great and growing pastime of messing about in caravans. It may seem difficult to swallow at first, but believe it or not, this substantial 25 foot long lorry is in fact a motor caravan. Or, if you want it in American, which is, after all, what it comes from a motor home, you know, as Tony Wilson of Europe's biggest motor caravan dealers.

00:00:31:02 - 00:00:52:12 Old fashioned man What would you say? The champion said, Whatever used to me is a motor caravan for the other 49 weeks of the year when I'm not on holiday. A lot of people use my two caravans business use using for weekends, visiting relatives going to sporting events. So they really are quite useful.

00:00:52:12 - 00:01:02:13 Marnie Hi and welcome to Dwelling. My name is Marnie and this episode we're kicking up again, heading to the open road and speaking to vehicle dwellers.

00:01:06:12 - 00:01:09:11 Marnie When you think of home, what do you think of.

00:01:10:05 - 00:01:37:04 Adam Where you live isn't just the specific place in which you live. It is your walk to work and you walk home from work. It's all shaped by what your position. It's this walk. You cross the road and then you go in this little inlet in the trees, which is just like the entrance into the heath. And it really just feels like a tunnel, like you're kind of transitioning from one space to another.

00:01:38:01 - 00:01:58:02 Adam And it is all sunlight. You hear the leaves on the field this morning, it was the frost and you go down this little path and you're in a place called The Vale of Health. It's a really romantic little space. They're like cottage houses and then down right to the end. And that's where we are.

00:01:58:07 - 00:02:18:15 Adam And it's just it just feels so nice walking on there and seeing everyone's lights on in the caravans and knowing they're all like cooking the tea or just getting ready for bed or whatever. Some of the caravans and it's actually incredible how much a difference, even something as relatively small as the heath makes to the night sky light.

00:02:18:15 - 00:02:26:16 Adam You can see so much in comparison to just being like, you know, 20 minute walk down the road in the actual city.

00:02:27:05 - 00:02:27:22 Marnie This is Adam.

00:02:28:19 - 00:02:53:10 Adam I'm Adam from Manchester at work here at the Roundhouse as a bartender and been living in a van for around two and a half years. Like during lockdown. I was just kind of feeling very restricted, Like I'd just been going. I'd just been traveling, and I just got home and kind of fall straight into lockdown. And I tried to move to London, but it didn't work because

00:02:53:10 - 00:03:12:15 Adam I lost my job because of COVID and just had an idea one morning that once the restrictions are starting to ease, I just wanted to move up to the light district and was trying to think of different ways of doing that. And yeah, decided on a van as like the cheapest, easiest way.

00:03:13:02 - 00:03:36:21 Marnie Living in a van has become an increasingly popular alternative to renting. It's difficult to find data on how many people are currently living in their vehicles. Anecdotally, Adam's story is a familiar one. Too much rent, wanting to live independently, wanting to be outside and close to nature. Motivations for living in a van can vary enormously from decluttering, financial to a greater sense of freedom.

00:03:36:21 - 00:03:52:08 Marnie And similar to boating there has also been a tight knit community that's built up around vehicle dwelling, busy and animated Facebook groups, meetups, or, if you're one of the lucky ones, a site where a group of trailers and vehicles can stay.

00:03:53:04 - 00:04:22:16 Adam It's so nice to be able to go home and yeah, know everyone by name and know them personality wise. We've got like a communal space with the fire where we go in some nights, you know, we all cook for each other, that kind of thing. It definitely feels a bit like a ideal sanctuary away from the city, which is, I guess is kind of what drove me into a van in the first place.

00:04:23:00 - 00:04:43:00 Adam I've always had this, I think, in a desire to try and escape all like push away from civilization or, you know, modern living. And the van definitely like, provided a means for doing that, although it is definitely idealized than the reality.

00:04:43:00 - 00:05:00:03 Marnie I think when you think of a person living in a van, for most people, one of two images pops to mind. The first is a glossy beach blond person with hair waving from salt in the fresh air of being outside, stood in front of an immaculately done up van with a cooker, a nifty design tricks to store their surfboards.

00:05:00:16 - 00:05:24:00 Marnie The Van Lifer. The other thing you may think of is different quieter, less Instagram focused. The vehicle dweller, someone living long term in a van, often in similar spots, traveling around a small area. Both of these can be driven by financial motives, but the cost of one is significantly more expensive. Both can be driven by wanting to be free from a crippling housing system.

00:05:24:06 - 00:05:41:19 Marnie But only one results in thousands of TikTok followers. This episode, I want to look at the spectrum of people living in vans and the different communities they create. I reached out to a whole host of Instagram. Van Lifers trawled through Tik Tok and found Shannon Lawford.

00:05:42:12 - 00:06:00:17 Shannon Here's a realistic look at life of living in a micro campervan when I'm not out traveling, just doing random things. So I started the day, by the way, got dressed and then had a look at The View. Today, the view was Stonehenge. What a nice view. Look, Then I had to put some dry shampoo on my head because there was no shower at Stonehenge.

00:06:01:14 - 00:06:18:11 Marnie Shannon stood out to me because although there was still stunning scenery, her videos were honest about money and time spent. To be clear, there's no hate to people. You spend loads on their vans and carry each post to make it look like an idyll. But I wanted to speak to someone who wouldn't sugarcoat their experience.

00:06:19:14 - 00:06:20:21 Shannon Okay. It's going.

00:06:21:24 - 00:06:37:21 Marnie Shannon is easy to speak to her short blond hair swept across her forehead and she laughs often. As I sat down to speak to Shannon and me in the studio and her in the front seat of her tiny van as rain pelted down outside.

00:06:37:21 - 00:07:06:20 Shannon I honestly don't know how I even started with the TikTok and how it's actually growing an audience like I just started posting videos of actually building the van and then people were enjoying it so much. So as long as I continue to use it, last year when I first visually felt it, I was using it for like weekend trips and I was using it a lot for work because working as a wedding photographer, I was like going to like here, there and everywhere.

00:07:06:20 - 00:07:32:22 Shannon So it was handy to have somewhere to just camp out as soon as you finish working. And then it kind of got to some of this year and I saw a few other people living in smaller vans and I was like, Actually, maybe I could just give it a go and see what happens. So I just started posting videos of building it, like I have no experience building it, and I just wanted to see I was kind of filming it to see if I actually was able to do what I was thinking of.

00:07:32:22 - 00:07:52:13 Shannon And I was just making these little videos and a lot of people comment and like they're interested if they're also building a van. People want to see what everyone else is doing and how they do it. And then once I built the van, I just kind of started making little or like travel videos or just random like thoughts and things that happen.

00:07:53:20 - 00:08:21:00 Shannon And I guess because I am quite creative and that's probably why I enjoyed it so much. Like I actually went to university and studied film. So I guess that's kind of my background of making films and making these little I travel videos. But yeah, in terms of actually growing the following, it, it was kind of surprising that and I still like wonder now why people enjoy it.

00:08:21:00 - 00:08:42:04 Shannon What I do is like that, but I think it's just because I kind of just post random things and like it's just normal stuff that people would do. So people enjoy watching that kind of stuff. But yeah, it has. It has been nice to kind of grow a little following in the community and I always like recognize the same people who are commenting and things like that.

00:08:42:04 - 00:08:45:01 Shannon So yeah, it it's really nice.

00:08:45:01 - 00:09:08:02 Marnie The Vanlife community is growing. That's been over 5 million hashtag Vanlife Life posts on Instagram just since the trend started in 2015. But there are other groups utilizing vehicle dwelling people who have lived in vehicles their whole lives. They are often harder to reach. Their visibility is tiny in comparison to their van life counterparts, and these communities are under threat.

00:09:08:02 - 00:09:32:00 Marnie With the introduction of the police and crime bill, vehicles seen as trespassing can be seized and people's homes, all of their possessions can be taken away. The media attention on the impact this has on vehicle dwellers was small, but the impacts could be devastating. Not long after the police and crime bill was passed on a sunny day in May 2022, I went on a mass trespass near Totnes in Devon.

00:09:32:19 - 00:09:51:18 Marnie We walked along a dusty and rugged track that was surrounded by quintessential British countryside, hedgerows and fields through woods and glades. As we reached the top of one of the hills, I noticed a small collection of trailers nestled in the grassy knoll at the side of the road. As our group rumbled past, I spotted a couple sitting in the grass outside their caravan.

00:09:52:02 - 00:10:03:13 Marnie They were young, clearly in love, and had an air of confidence that showed they were at home. They looked on to our group in bemusement. So I went over and introduced myself.

00:10:03:13 - 00:10:04:07 Finn My name's Finn.

00:10:04:24 - 00:10:05:12 Robin Robin.

00:10:05:22 - 00:10:32:12 Finn I've lived in a caravan probably for about 12 years now. Yeah, since I was 11 years old. 22 now. Yeah. Love it. Wouldn't move into a house or anything. So I said to living in the caravan, it's more feel more connected to the outside and I think Yeah, yeah. I really love it when my mom used to live in the caravan for years, so we moved into a house when she got pregnant with us and then it got too much rent to pay, a bit too poor.

00:10:32:12 - 00:10:54:12 Finn And I think she wanted to move somewhere back out into a caravan. We moved up to site and started living back in caravans and it was so much nicer, you know, a lot more affordable and just it just felt right. Yeah. The community's lush. It's really lovely. Every summer we only often make food in Southside, near together with sapphires.

00:10:54:12 - 00:10:57:14 Finn It's really lush. Yeah, it's pretty friendly. Everyone up there is really nice.

00:10:57:19 - 00:11:26:21 Adam It works, I guess, because we're all even though we are all from such different backgrounds, I guess we all have this shared sense of doing something a bit different and it's shaped so much of the way that you have to live that there's always kind of something to talk about if it's practical things or if it's just fun things is always there's definitely just like some common passion.

00:11:27:23 - 00:11:36:11 Marnie Do you feel like there's any like, what's your best van story, like living in a van? What's the most fun thing that's happened so far?

00:11:36:11 - 00:11:58:12 Finn Van Story Oh, right after that's a hard one. And I always love obviously it depends on the time of year, but some of the best feelings you get in a van I live in a caravan is when it's freezing cold winter and you put your body on and you get the first hit of fire and you start warming up and it gets nice and boiling.

00:11:58:12 - 00:12:03:22 Finn Yeah. And then the rain starts and you feel cozy and warm, you know.

00:12:03:23 - 00:12:18:18 Robin You know what's going on, you know, you know, if it's raining, you know if it's windy, you know, usual around you, you know, you really like actually involved in the nature. Like if you're in a house, you don't you don't even know what's going on outside.

00:12:18:18 - 00:12:32:04 Finn You hear every sound. You know what it is. You know, you know the the tree moving and talk. You know, people walking past. You hear something what doesn't sound right and you instantly know, you know, you feel so much more in touch with it all this large man really is.

00:12:33:12 - 00:12:54:21 Shannon Yeah, it can it can kind of get annoying. Like I think the stress of finding somewhere to stay if you're choosing to go down the route of wild camping and not going in campsites, sometimes that is really stressful. Usually when you leave it to the end of the day and you're like, It's getting dark and you can't find anywhere and you pull up to like a dodgy spot and you've got to go somewhere else.

00:12:54:21 - 00:13:16:13 Shannon And that's when you have days like that. You're like, Oh, this is like, this is actually quite hard. But I think then the next day you kind of, you get past it really quickly and you see the benefits of it so much more than those on stressful days. Like even in a house, you would probably have those days where I know something would break down and you'd have like a really stressful day in your house.

00:13:16:13 - 00:13:39:09 Shannon So I think any side of life is good to have those days. So yeah, to me the the good definitely outweighs the bad. But yeah, also in, in the good side of things, being able to go wherever you want and do what you want is actually quite freeing and like very I found this almost being.

00:13:45:18 - 00:13:50:19 Marnie I mean do you. Feel the impacts of being a bit closer to nature and greenspace?

00:13:51:23 - 00:14:20:09 Adam Definitely, yeah. I mean, the the contradiction of London versus living in a natural like is actually just a wild forest that he should preserve forest, which is amazing. You definitely feel it. I used to live in Shepherd's Bush when I first lived in London. Absolutely hated it. Could not manage. You know, I'm from a small town, never really been to London before.

00:14:20:09 - 00:14:42:17 Adam I didn't really have much experience of a city and dropping me into Shepherd's Bush. It was definitely like a lot to come to grips with, and I'd kind of written off London after that and still have a lot of friends here. Still, like feel drawn to the excitement of the city. But I just couldn't. I just thought I couldn't face living in it again.

00:14:42:17 - 00:15:02:20 Adam But finding this, it just kind of is definitely the perfect balance. You go back and you can't even really hear the city in the spring and summer. You can like hear birds and you can always go on a walk through the trees and, you know, pretend that you live in a nice world.

00:15:03:08 - 00:15:23:07 Shannon When I was living over winter, I was paying like £600 a month, I think, for rent, which might not be as much as some people, but that was quite a lot. And a lot of the time I was like traveling or I wasn't even in the flat. So I was like, I'm spending all of this money for a flat that I'm only in like once every lot in a blue moon or something.

00:15:23:09 - 00:15:37:03 Shannon And I didn't want that to happen over the summer. So there's no point paying for a flat if I'm not going to be there. So I might as well save the rent money and put the rent money towards doing more fun things than sitting at the house.

00:15:38:07 - 00:16:06:18 Marnie Shannon isn't alone in this, and many people lower incomes or less regular work. They're not choosing to live in bands but feel it is their only option. Bristol has become a hub for vehicle dwellers in tensions between urban dwellers and the council has come to a boiling point on a dead end roads near Grassy Cemetery. A group has put down roots, but now they face eviction fines and potentially having their homes taken away.

00:16:07:24 - 00:16:34:12 Marnie They put out a statement after the eviction notice. We don't believe what we're doing is a crime. We are just trying to exist. The majority of us at Greenbank View, young people unable to afford to live in the city despite working as hard as we do, young people are struggling to afford stable housing. The average rent in Bristol being over £600 per month, yet wages have stayed the same.

00:16:35:08 - 00:17:01:20 Marnie Vehicle dwelling is our solution to the housing crisis. We also find this way of life means we have more time for volunteering, community projects and our own pursuits. We want to challenge the assumption that people who live in vehicles anti social, jobless or threat when in fact we are engaged in activism or law and youth work. We are tidy, respectful people and regularly clean up the street and park together.

00:17:01:20 - 00:17:15:08 Marnie We are now at risk of fines, trial and an eviction. We ask for your compassion and understanding whether or not you agree with the van lifestyle. We hope you now understand our situation.

00:17:15:08 - 00:17:26:23 Adam Right now. I could not afford to be in London at all, even in the light shoddy accommodation that I was in without living in a van. There's just no way I could sustain myself.

00:17:27:00 - 00:17:28:00 Marnie This is Adam again.

00:17:28:09 - 00:17:58:23 Adam The place I was living in, in Shepherd's Bush was just. It was like an attic room in a house that had been converted into three separate flats. So all together in this building that used to be a house, there was 12 people living in the five people in my floor, all sharing this tiny kitchen, no setting space. You know, the window looked out onto Westfield Mall and the overground, it was such a horrible place and I was paying.

00:17:58:23 - 00:18:31:17 Adam Yeah, and an insane amount of money. It just kind of keeps you trapped in that cycle where you're kind of not really enjoying your job. But your job is only sustaining your lifestyle, which you're not even really enjoying anymore because the house isn't that good and you can't afford to do anything but pay your rent. So Yvonne definitely liberates you from a lot of that and means I can work less hours in a more casual kind of job, be less like career driven and focus more on.

00:18:31:17 - 00:19:03:12 Adam Yeah, like enjoy my time working on my own, like personal projects and yeah, I guess just actually kind of it's just rebalance as things I guess like, I mean today for instance, all my pipes are frozen, everyone's pipes on the site are frozen. Even our main water pipes that we all get our water from for ovens are frozen like it's in no way ideal, but it's definitely fun at times.

00:19:04:06 - 00:19:29:12 Adam I think a lot of the kind of culture, the vanlife Instagram culture as well is really strange when you liken, contradict or can't oppose it against people who are like doing it out of pure necessity. There's a lot of people all like a few people on my side who've been living in bonds for like 15, 18 years. They're like fairground workers and members of the traveler community.

00:19:29:12 - 00:19:40:05 Adam And for them it's like in no way like a fun jaunt or adventure or anything. It's just like a day to day reality.

00:19:45:13 - 00:19:49:24 Marnie How is the response to you guys living in caravans and vans around here?

00:19:50:07 - 00:19:59:19 Finn I get a very mixed one and a lot of people talk to me and they're like, That's amazing. It's really interesting. A lot of people don't get a lot people get very confused.

00:19:59:19 - 00:20:01:22 Marnie I've seen people thank you very.

00:20:02:07 - 00:20:23:01 Finn Very day and it's like it's like that as we we do show, we do clean, we do keep our hygiene up. It's not like we're disgusting, muddy, grubby people. A lot of people get confused and stuff like that. I've had different reactions of a what some people drive on to where we are and freak out straight away and reverse as far as they can go.

00:20:23:05 - 00:20:25:01 Robin Well, all we all just.

00:20:26:17 - 00:20:37:18 Finn Really freak out. And then you've got people who find that fascinating and amazing. Um, it just depends on the people in my life, from my belief and how they've grown up, obviously, and what they hear. I think that's a massive yeah.

00:20:37:18 - 00:21:05:01 Robin There's a lot of discrimination and there's a lot of opinions, but that's all there really is. There's not much like history that people know that it's not. I just feel like nothing's like, no, no, no. And yeah, I don't I, I feel like people live in houses and stuff can be a lot worse. Like people think if you live like this, you're a criminal and that you automatically, like, do bad things.

00:21:05:01 - 00:21:06:23 Robin But that's just not true.

00:21:07:06 - 00:21:27:01 Finn My I don't I yeah it's interesting when I was definitely I just feel like as well with this new um the trespassing that bring it through I feel like it's a way I hope it's not I feel like it's a way to control people a lot more keep them in these boxes that they have to.

00:21:27:05 - 00:21:28:01 Robin And it's like.

00:21:28:01 - 00:21:28:21 Finn Use that power.

00:21:29:16 - 00:21:44:00 Robin Because you're not paying, you're not paying rent, you're not paying for water, you're not paying for the changes of that. It's all about money, really. It all goes down to money. And if you're not paying the system, then they don't like me.

00:21:44:16 - 00:21:53:10 Finn Yeah, 100%. It's scary because, I mean, the amount that they could take your home for me, you know, straight away.

00:21:53:13 - 00:21:55:02 Robin And see it's a vehicle.

00:21:55:03 - 00:22:12:05 Finn And that's your everything, you know, that is that's where we live. It's not like we were renting out or it's not like we're just there for a little bit. This is our home. You know, if we buy a new caravan or advance, like everything, all our stuff's in there. And the fear that they could just take that from us.

00:22:12:12 - 00:22:13:06 Finn And like.

00:22:13:13 - 00:22:23:17 Robin I think people just shouldn't be so judgmental. I think don't just don't judge people for the way they live life, because it's also like a it's a way of life. You know.

00:22:24:12 - 00:22:47:19 Marnie It's like I want to be super clear that when I say this next bit, I'm not hating on Vanlife is saving money on rent and going out and exploring the world wonderful, meaningful goals. But the way that vanlife as a treat it is worlds apart from vehicle dwellers. One is celebrated, rewarded with social kudos and sometimes financially. The other often face eviction or harassed by authorities and residents.

00:22:48:21 - 00:22:59:11 Marnie And it's hard not to notice that Vanlifers is so often white and middle class. Again, my beef isn't with Van Lifers, but rather with the distinction in the way that these two groups are treated.

00:22:59:12 - 00:23:24:02 Robin I think it's just the Tory government and like they always trying to find laws to like against people who live this way. And I don't know, I just think it's not surprising. I, I mean, it's anything new, what they're doing. It's just like another bill passing. And this I think more people need to be aware. That's what I think needs to change.

00:23:24:02 - 00:23:53:19 Robin I think more people need to actually understand because a lot there's a lot of protesting about the bill because it was also against protesting. But I feel like no one really knew that. It was also about the antitrust pass and stuff and all that and about people who live this way. And I just think not many people know about it and not many people know to stand up and talk about it, because there's no there's no one talking about it, really.

00:23:54:24 - 00:24:22:12 Marnie It's so tricky to feel like you can, like, grow as a person or even like have any sense of security in your future when you're living from one paycheck to another. But actually, in London, if you're earning 30 grand a year, which is a very respectable and reasonable salary, that's not it's not enough to do anything except pay rent and food and bills.

00:24:22:12 - 00:24:26:06 Marnie And that's that's really tricky when you're looking at that like the whole rest of your life.

00:24:26:19 - 00:24:27:01 Adam Yeah.

00:24:27:08 - 00:24:33:21 Marnie Has it had any sort of impacts on your sort of like sense of well-being, having being able to like, look forward a bit further?

00:24:35:10 - 00:25:19:14 Adam Yeah, I, I guess it has. I definitely felt that what you're saying, the futurelessness, I guess all our generation feels is just kind of such an over bearing weight in our lives, even before the cost of living crisis and everything that's happening right now, it's just such a there's such an existential way to growing up today. And I definitely feel like, I don't know, I've got more time, so I'm able to like, I guess, put myself into projects that I value and so lose some of that weight.

00:25:20:03 - 00:25:41:23 Adam And I definitely feel like it's freed me up. I don't know. It's hard. I guess if I was doing the same work as I was doing when I was renting a floor, I'd have like way more surplus income and I'd have way more of a financial foundation and feel like I've got more of a stable future ahead of me.

00:25:42:08 - 00:26:13:10 Adam But because I guess my move into a van was also accompanied by like a I guess like a dropping out of a traditional career and just now doing bar work. I don't think I have that strong financial foundation to like, you know, project into the future and have this stable future ahead of me. So I think time wise, yes, definitely like helps me deal with the mental burden.

00:26:13:10 - 00:26:43:22 Adam But I think as a as a complete lifestyle shift, it's still just fraught with like uncertainty. And I mean, even like we were just talking about the fact that the site might not exist. And I think there's still definitely a lot of like uncertainty in the future. Well, yeah, I guess you mentioned the exact name has gone from my mind.

00:26:44:01 - 00:26:44:06 Marnie The Police and Crime Bill.

00:26:44:16 - 00:27:06:04 Adam Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Things like that. And just the growing crackdown on any kind of alternative way of living. Definitely. Yeah. I think, Phil, the future of this kind of life with uncertainty.

00:27:07:06 - 00:27:25:17 Marnie There's a tightening on like how people can live. And I don't think there's anything wrong with living like having a 9 to 5 and renting. Mm. It's just that like, why does that have to be the only option? Yeah. And the idea of that being taken away to me is really scary.

00:27:26:05 - 00:28:00:08 Adam Yeah, exactly. And I guess like cost of living, inflation rising, it's becoming less and less. Like even if you do live in a van or boat, if you've managed to find this alternative means of living is becoming even less and less viable financially to do not without subscribing yourself to a full time job. So I think the full like offering the full alternative offering is just kind of as prices rise.

00:28:01:24 - 00:28:04:13 Adam Yeah, it just becomes less and less viable.

00:28:04:13 - 00:28:30:06 Marnie Definitely can feel pretty gloomy when you think about the future of home, it can feel shaky, like the ground underneath. You might give way at any minute or maybe more accurately, that the roof over your head might vanish. But as we were wrapping up our interview, I asked Shannon when her tiny camper starts to feel like home and her answer reminded me that alternative ways of living aren't just about your physical space, but your access to the whole world.

00:28:31:19 - 00:28:55:20 Shannon I did. I think the first trip I did last summer, I went to the Brecon Beacons for a few days because before that I'd mostly been in towns where I was just traveling for work. So I went to the Brecon Beacons and that was like a real first trip where I was like, Yeah, this was good. I feel at home wherever I go.

00:28:57:10 - 00:29:08:21 Shannon And yeah, now every day I'm just like, Oh, I'm living in this tiny little space and I feel like the best that I've ever felt and. Yeah, yeah.

00:29:10:14 - 00:29:17:04 Marnie And do you think you feel a sense of freedom or independence that you don't necessarily get in a house?

00:29:17:13 - 00:29:23:04 Finn Oh, yeah, 100%. 100%. You walk straight out and you're outside in this beautiful world like.

00:29:23:10 - 00:29:24:11 Robin We're in the world.

00:29:24:18 - 00:29:25:14 Finn Mhm. Yeah.

00:29:25:14 - 00:29:26:15 Robin Thing that you can.

00:29:27:01 - 00:29:27:17 Finn Can just go.

00:29:27:24 - 00:29:34:18 Robin You can, you're in the house, you can't, you stop there. Mm. Unless you go to a different house.

00:29:35:16 - 00:29:35:23 Finn Yeah.

00:29:36:06 - 00:29:49:19 Robin So definitely there's more freedom but then that's a cost in it. That's the thing.

00:29:49:19 - 00:30:12:05 Marnie That's a group of people, a community who've been missing from this episode, people whose relationship with a dramatic and moving home is part of their history. A group whose nomadism is a source of stigma and discrimination from all legislation, people who've borne the brunt of racism and hypocrisy in the media when talking about their homes and ability to live on the road.

00:30:13:08 - 00:30:51:11 Marnie A group of people who anywhere between 40 and 80% were forcibly settled. So a found home and community in other ways. Travelers. That's next time. On dwelling, find us on your favorite streaming platforms. Release weekly on Mondays. Follow us on social media at dwelling underscore pilot powered by transmission round roundhouse.