00:00.00 talalaban But Alexi of the ah the show we are good to go? yeah.

00:01.23 alexei sayle Okay, there. We good to go hi everybody welcome to episode 35 of the Alexis Hill podcast and we have a particularly special guest today. Ah Basham. Yusef really? and um I I try and um disguise my lack of research by saying bassum tell me your story. It? Yes, so.

00:27.45 talalaban This is.

00:30.20 BASSEM Ah, where to begin where well I was a heart surgeon in Egypt. That's the short version I was a heart surgeon in Egypt turned into a political satirist had my own show in Egypt got kicked out escaped. And now I'm in the United States trying to reinvent myself in a different form of comedy in a different language for a different audience and now I'm in Europe doing my european tour and an english standup which is also another challenge since you know outside of England.

00:53.72 alexei sayle Yeah.

01:00.54 alexei sayle Me me.

01:05.60 BASSEM Ah, English might not be the first language for people with gravitate to the English Sendup comedy. So that's the um, that's the ah, that's that's the short version of the story. Okay.

01:08.71 alexei sayle No.

01:09.34 talalaban In.

01:15.42 alexei sayle Right? Well, there's ah, there's a lot to unpack. Ah there where are you So this is your first European tour.

01:21.58 BASSEM Yeah I just landed in Paris I'm so I'm having my first show in in Paris after tomorrow and then I will go to do 10 european cities in twenty days including 3 cities in the yeah Uk London Manchester and Birmingham.

01:24.90 alexei sayle Yeah.

01:38.58 BASSEM And tallal is going to be opening for a couple of shows I'm very excited to work with taal actually so it's going to be fun in London on museum.

01:40.90 alexei sayle Yeah.

01:44.50 talalaban Yeah.

01:49.48 alexei sayle He's a good boy I've taught him everything he knows you're playing that you playing the south bank center in London that which is a lovely room and yeah.

01:51.23 talalaban Yeah I can.

01:55.27 BASSEM Yes, Ah, which is ah it's you just a huge theater and I'm I'm very excited to be playing it there and um, it's kind of like it's It's been a journey for me.

02:01.23 talalaban It's on that.

02:05.43 alexei sayle Um.

02:07.61 talalaban That's on the 9th March

02:09.94 BASSEM Yeah, um, a ninth of March in London Tenth of March in Birmingham and eleventh in Manchester and 12 in Copenhagen. So it's kind of like it's it's a very cream to um, it's gonna be interesting and I I have ah I have a but like faith that this will be like um.

02:20.83 alexei sayle Ah, yeah.

02:29.72 BASSEM Ah, good tour where I know more about myself more about the communitys here and more about the arab Diapora that will come to the show and hopefully a lot of non-arabs will come to the show too. The show will be global for everybody. Don't have to be from the enjoy it. Yes sir.

02:37.39 alexei sayle Yeah I mean who's so yeah, so you will be performing in English everywhere. But but that your audience will largely be arab. You think from the out of diaspora.

02:40.29 talalaban Raha.

02:47.61 BASSEM Yes, yes, ah yeah, I've been defaulting I've I've yeah I have been performing in english in America I've been having like a a big american tour and this is the first time I do it outside of North America I did America I did a lot of Canadian City and it's gonna.

03:02.60 alexei sayle And.

03:06.45 BASSEM This is my European tour So um, look my finger crossed.

03:09.94 talalaban A.

03:11.89 alexei sayle Ah, fantastic. So it's so so but to to to then I mean go back in time ready. You were what propelled the change of of profession presumably. Yeah, this was you were you were heart sedge and during the the Mubarak era of in in Egypt is that right.

03:34.30 BASSEM Yes, under Muwaka was a heart surgeon and I was actually prepared to leave egypt to start a fellowship in America and then the arab spring happened and all my life I followed Jon Stewart I loved his brand of comedies bendo political satire so I did like a few. Ah. Like Youtube videos satirizing the state run media that was spreading all kinds of lies and misinformation and and when ah the the videos went viral and before I know it I'm signing my first television deal and now I'm hosting a television deal a political satire show that is.

04:08.61 BASSEM Satirizing the political events in Egypt people. Love the show government. Not so much. Yeah, and then I have yes.

04:17.61 talalaban And that's when I first became aware of you actually? um this this is like I don't know 10 ten or more years ago and a 2011 yeah

04:25.92 BASSEM Um, I started in 2011

04:30.56 talalaban And I'm my mom actually introduced me to you but she's like TalaPalla you you like the comedy right? and she's like you you like the comedy you should. You should see this man. He is. He's incredible and she was like so blown away because and then so was I because you don't see that in the Middle East

04:37.17 alexei sayle Um, same.

04:47.92 alexei sayle Well, that's how I was going to say I mean is there was there any kind of tradition of of satire in the Middle East it's obviously the the risks that it's not without danger. Is it.

04:49.58 BASSEM Yeah.

04:49.60 talalaban You know you don't so.

04:57.78 BASSEM Um, no, don't satire in comedy has been always been very strong I guys guys I Think there's a big lag in and sound because I'm I'm speaking I think there's a lag in sound.

05:09.80 alexei sayle Yeah, we we can we.

05:14.14 talalaban Um, well I think it all comes out fine in the edit I'm.

05:16.51 BASSEM Yeah, because either is there either a yeah because either Alex is not like yeah like is is just like if I'm cutting him off or or you guys are cutting me off because like ah we where there's a big lag between us.

05:32.24 talalaban Um, okay, let's give each other space when we finish talking give it a couple seconds. Ah this ah trust me in the edit I you know I edit this show surgically and so like it all comes out clean.

05:33.00 alexei sayle Um.

05:35.40 BASSEM Yeah, yes, please.

05:39.97 alexei sayle Dr.

05:41.77 BASSEM Click. Ok.

05:44.55 talalaban So it might be a bit distracting while we're talking. Let's try and give each other room to breathe when we're talking. But um, yeah, Alex yeah for me too. It sounds pretty good.

05:49.54 BASSEM Yes, yes.

05:50.85 alexei sayle Yeah, because it's it's sounding all right on my end. Actually it's a but bus of it's ah it's come.

05:55.19 BASSEM No for for me when I usually speak and and somebody cuts off before I finish my sentence and I think and it's a little bit So I think there's a kind of a lag.

06:07.79 alexei sayle Will we'll try and we'll try and to leave space around that will add. Add even I'll add more to these spontanna if the the.

06:13.61 BASSEM Oh okay.

06:19.18 BASSEM And Lll approve.

06:19.42 talalaban Yeah, it doesn't help that we're used to cutting each other off already. Anyway, it's probably the hotel Wifi as well. But yeah, we'll give each other room This alexi was asking about yeah about the dangers of sati you were just explaining actually about satire the tradition.

06:24.93 BASSEM Yeah.

06:25.94 alexei sayle Ah, yeah.

06:29.27 BASSEM Yeah, what was the question again necessary. Oh yeah, that's original. So okay, so.

06:35.47 alexei sayle Just um, well I mean but but.

06:42.25 BASSEM kind of can I kind of can I can I answer okay so um, the ah Satire and comedy has been extreme was always been there in Egypt especially Egypt. They've been very strong. There's a strong tradition the Satris and the comedians in Egypt has um.

06:45.10 alexei sayle There Yeah there there? yeah.

07:01.56 BASSEM Amazing. But the thing is as far as political satire that was not a brand that was there. It has and there has been some satire a little bit political but it's always been sanctioned and accepted and allowed by the government. The whole idea of like the free falling satire that we can say anything we want. We can. We can take punches. Ah but ah to the government or the authority or the president was not even allowed you always had some sort of a ah ceiling where you cannot go past so when the. The arab spring happened. There was a kind of like a fluid stage of ideas and comedy and for the first time we were allowed to talk ah about anything we want and so this is why the show thrived because there was um, um, an atmosphere of freedom that allowed people to do so. But however, it was not like the western world which has been the the art of satire has been established. We had to carve our space into ah into that field and that caught caught me into trouble so under the islamist I was interrogated. There was a word for my arrest and I had to actually be in an interrogation for 6 hours in a room. Explain my jokes to the interrogager and under the military I had my who canceled twice and I eventually got had to escape from from from Egypt and go to live in the United States so it was a very short-lived dream.

08:34.40 BASSEM That was abruptly cut.

08:36.16 alexei sayle Yeah, ah well it was just I mean how do you I mean how do you feel about the arab spring now did I mean it's it seems to me to be obviously a.

08:52.32 alexei sayle Ah, you know tragic interlude in a way and that things are worse in Egypt now than they were even under mubarak. It's I don't know maybe you think not but I mean um and also it's about the western you know it's about the evil interference of the west.

09:11.61 BASSEM Well um, yes, it is not as as good as we hoped for but looking through history 90% of revolutions fail and only 10% of revolution that might actually work it works after a very long time.

09:14.29 alexei sayle Me.

09:21.22 alexei sayle Right.

09:27.14 BASSEM So if you want to talk from the political aspect. Yes I think the whatever we hoped for in the arab spring did not work but at the same time as much as it is um, ah, disappointing to have that kind of failure. It has opened the minds and of of a lot of young people in Egypt I think now there is I always say the revolution is not an event. A revolution is a process and you might find the the seeds that this revolution have planted to flourish maybe in the next generation. Maybe we. The people who witnessed the revolution might not actually see anything or be or benefit ah from ah from it. But at the end of the day you might find that the following generations can actually ah. Be the result of that kind of freedom that we have because it allowed people to talk about stuff that was not even allowed to talk about where there is like religion tradition politics. So again, it's ah it's a process now about the evil interference with the west. It's very easy to of course to blame the west for everything but like you know. We carry part of that responsibility too like ah like for example, you can blame America all you want about invading Iraq which is of course evil but we have to remember that it was also a dictator who invaded another country who who oppressed his own people making it.

11:00.41 BASSEM Easy and and and and kind of um path but like paved away for for America to for day for zo west to come in. Um, there was to also prop that same dictator I think the relationship relationship between the west and the Middle East and many of the third world countries is as. Ah, of course we want democracy but as long as you buy weapons from us. You can do whatever you want and that is kind of like a relationship that has always been gone between them so you find like a present any present who comes to power and the west like like you know is all about like freedom and.

11:25.15 talalaban You know.

11:38.37 BASSEM And freedom of expression and once you start buying their weapons. They don't they they they they basically there's like there's a blind eye for whatever he wants to do with these people.

11:50.16 alexei sayle Absolutely yeah, um so how did you I mean so your did you have any live experience between kind of going from heart surgeon to tv satirist did you or was it just through watching like Jon Stewart and stuff on the.

12:05.18 BASSEM No I never had any kind of live experience I never performed I never I never did actually do comedy before my first ever time to do comedy was in front of television cameras and it ah it was a bumpy road. It was more of a trial and error I learned on the job.

12:06.99 alexei sayle Cnn.

12:21.89 alexei sayle Yeah.

12:22.76 BASSEM Ah, so if you actually look my ah now when I look to my earliest work I said like oh my God that was terrible but I think because there was nothing. It was accepted by the public and I was allowed to kind of rain on the better you know? ah.

12:33.13 talalaban If the.

12:33.86 alexei sayle Yes, ah.

12:40.71 alexei sayle Ah, yeah, it helps if um, it helps if there's nobody came before you doesn't it really.

12:46.44 BASSEM I Yeah exactly it's like no there is no reference like oh it's great and I like no guys That's that's that's terrible but he just you don't know. Ah.

12:54.87 alexei sayle Very there was very that was certainly my my my technique in the early part of my career. So I mean was there was some I mean it was was Western comedy at all, um, popular in in.

13:00.32 BASSEM Is new music.

13:13.33 alexei sayle Egypt.

13:14.67 BASSEM Yes, ah well it really depends on what what kind of education you have in Egypt if you went to an english language school or ah, a western school in Egypt which is I would say a very small percentage of.

13:21.15 alexei sayle Right.

13:31.79 BASSEM The the public would go. You would follow seinfel. You would follow Fraser we you would follow friends. Ah you would follow Eddie Murphy um and and you have to understand like in growing up in the 80 s and ninety s there was no internet so these kind of like things that trickled. To us we would I remember I was a big fan of the Nba the national basketball association and Michael Jordan and we didn't get the game so we we would wait for videotapes to come from America to watch the and Nba same thing with friends. You know, like ah all the illegal downloads to get friends or.

13:59.43 alexei sayle Yeah.

13:59.97 talalaban Oh.

14:05.64 BASSEM I Remember like 2005 when the whole thing were watching that Tv show lost and we had to kind of wait till until the legal download to come now with with the streaming with the satellite is of course it's different but like we are the generation of the dialop Internet. So at the time we had to kind of like work hard to get our material from the west.

14:22.90 talalaban A.

14:25.13 alexei sayle Um, yes, yeah, yeah, kids today they don't know they're born. Do they they they with their their Netflix yeah bastards.

14:34.82 BASSEM Yeah, they're very lucky right? Yeah with their night Flis. Ah.

14:42.60 alexei sayle Was there a goddamn was there any any British as as the former Imperial power was there any um, any British stuff that you like those you know the had I made this.

14:52.55 BASSEM Well, ah we didn't have with in entertainment. We didn't have that much of when a british it was more american all the way from the mobbbi show to France to seinfold in that but we had some british with quo.

14:52.57 talalaban Disco.

15:05.74 talalaban Yeah, that like no, no you.

15:07.82 alexei sayle Um, dead.

15:10.10 BASSEM We had some British Comedy show playing like for example, yes, minister and yes, prime minister and and upstairs downstairs that the we read these are like the British shows that were were were popular. You have to understand like at the end at that time we only had government television. We didn't have that much of satellite so it was.

15:17.65 alexei sayle But.

15:29.26 alexei sayle There.

15:29.96 BASSEM Whatever the government sees ah fit for us to watch so whether it was America would watch magnum and stargate and ing and macgyver.

15:40.75 talalaban Ah.

15:41.89 BASSEM And for england we from England would watch yes minister and yes minister and yes prime minister which is like 1 of my absolute favorite shows.

15:52.40 talalaban And Mr Bean surely you got Mr Bean

15:52.63 alexei sayle There everybody gets to Mr Bean not Mr Bean every

15:54.36 BASSEM Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, what my Miss Mr being because they they're basically there was no, there was no dialogue. There's like a guy just doing faces so it because you don't have you have to ah understand english yeah.

16:03.30 talalaban Yeah.

16:06.65 alexei sayle Yeah, there Mr Fucking Bean ah so what kind of a I mean.

16:16.11 talalaban That's the episode tile that Ah Mr. Fucking bean.

16:19.40 BASSEM Yeah Mr Bucky being the the egyptian the egyptian Doctor Satris and fucking Mr. Bean. Ah.

16:22.55 alexei sayle Yeah Mr. what kind of material would you do them if you know I mean now or in the early days really I mean what's the how's the act changed really I suppose.

16:25.41 talalaban Yeah.

16:34.77 BASSEM So if you're talking about now if if you're talking about like at the early days the early days was basically what I did was a current political satire show like the daily show in in by John Stewart basically whatever happens in the country. We would talk about and we discuss it.

16:41.43 alexei sayle Yet.

16:50.14 alexei sayle M.

16:53.94 BASSEM Of course after I left Egypt and I went to America I you know I went to a saturated market and I I had absolutely no way to penetrate the market in television because you know you might be the biggest thing in Egypt and the Middle East but you're an absolute no one in America so I had to reinvent myself in a way that I do.

17:09.62 alexei sayle Yeah.

17:13.71 BASSEM Stand-up comedy which I never did before in english which I never did before and now my stand-up comedy show which I tour around the United States and the one I'm touring right now in Europe is basically my story. It's a story about like ah a heart surgeon growing up in Egypt having to be.

17:27.16 alexei sayle Wow! yeah.

17:31.37 BASSEM To be a to do medicine because his parents wanted him to do it and then the arab spring happens. He turned into a political satire I talk about the investigation about the pressure doing the show and then I and then I talk about like leaving Egypt going to America as Trump becoming present and what does that mean for a newly immigrant. Person like ah, an only ah and a new immigrant like me going to America and there's ah basically the show is my story every single it's it's not like ah it's not ah, a joke based show. It is ah it's a story based show each. It's it's like um, a multiple. Ah, many scenes from my life stitch together to draw the story of my life from America from egypt all the way to America and what does it mean today for me trying to follow other people's expectations that has always been put for me and in in the show put this way is a way that. A lot of people can relate to the show in America and not just middle eastern come to my show americans immigrants white americans black americans asian americans they come and they find themselves in the show. Somehow it is a show that actually gets people you will find yourself. Into that story even if my story is completely different than yours.

18:46.33 alexei sayle Right? I mean what do you? 1 of the things I've been What do you think is the effect or the only it's an impossible question to answer in a way. But what do you think is the effect of. Satire of satirical comedy does it ultimately just make people make it easier for people to put up with ah their oppression or does it. Ah, how do you think it has a kind of a revolutionary effect. Big question. Perhaps.

19:22.88 BASSEM Um, well the um, um, ah comedy and satire especially political satire allows people to discuss dull ideas in a way that is that is funny that is attractive.

19:35.12 alexei sayle M.

19:38.28 talalaban E.

19:39.24 BASSEM You can talk about things that are related to military budget or international interfere Imperial interference in in in people's lives and you can talk about it in um, ah in a serious way but people will fall asleep or not going to be interested or you can use satire to bring that. Ah, topic to them to to have to open a discussion yet. But the other big ah thing about attire especially political satire especially in countries where there is more of an Authoritarian ah mood of governance is that.

20:01.96 alexei sayle That's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:18.28 BASSEM It is very dangerous for authoritarian leaders because authoritarian leaders only use fear and they want you to make you afraid of them. They want you to make worry about your safety when you take that and you make fun of it. I always say you cannot be afraid of something that you're laughing at if you're laughing at something you're not scared of it anymore and this is why authoritarian ah leaders are very sensitive to society. They're very actually very aggressive even now in America which there is an established democracy in America there. The art of. Political sati is established even then Donald Trump because he is from that mindset authoritarian mindset. Although he is is still in the democratic system. He boycotted the the white house correspondent dinner. The only president in the history of America who boycott.

21:07.31 alexei sayle Right.

21:11.52 BASSEM The white house correspondent dinner which is an annual event where a comedian comes up and he rips the present apart and he makes fun of them right there as he's sitting and then the president comes up and he makes fun of himself and the others and it's more of like a celebration of freedom of Speech even if that was a facade. But it is a symbolic gesture Donald Trump is the only president in the history of America who boycotted the four years of his presidency and he never went there even Ronald Reagan when he was shot he called in from the hospital because he knew how I mean. Talk about what everyone about like George W Bush or Reagan or or all of other republicans but they they they kept that kind of tradition because it's important even if it was a show to show people that you can still talk up and you can spill speed and you can still make fun. So this is why like.

22:05.87 talalaban M.

22:08.40 BASSEM When Hitler came at his first target with the caricaturist his first target with the satirist. Always the comedians are the ones who always get picked up on in the beginning because they are the king gesture. They are the people who make fun. They are the basically the people that show you the King Naked and this is very dangerous for the authoritarian leaders because it doesn't doesn't serve their agenda of making people live in constant fear.

22:37.20 alexei sayle Or thank you. It's amazing. Yes, we had well so we had our own. We had our own Jeremy Corby spring here I don't know if you'd followed any of that really a few years ago yeah no you didn't there was a so um.

22:46.91 BASSEM Jere Mccobe

22:53.28 alexei sayle About ah in 20 when was it 2015 2016 ah um through a through so basically through an accident this guy got elected to the leadership of the labor party the other the major party and the sort of equivalent more or less of the Democrats in.

22:58.63 talalaban Hook.

23:08.54 BASSEM Yeah, yeah.

23:11.97 alexei sayle And he was um, pro-palestinian anti-colonial um anti-capitalist but still nevertheless, a democrat and um, that really um, shook up the establishment in in Britain.

23:26.33 talalaban E.

23:28.74 alexei sayle And um, he he was a trip. He proved himself to be a tremendous threat but comedians I think comedians Really let the side down really because they allowed the comedians here allowed themselves to be intimidated really and didn't apart from me didn't really back him.

23:43.98 BASSEM Or have 1

23:48.73 alexei sayle And um, the cowardly bunch of shits. Really yeah, they they they really all they allowed themselves to be a guess subverse I mean do they So I don't know what point I'm what what where where I'm going with this is.

23:49.45 talalaban Yeah, they all towed the line.

24:01.97 talalaban Well, it's it's just embarrassing because the stakes are so like what bassim did in Egypt. The stakes were so high and yet you continued to to do your thing even with the threat of arrest with the death threats with all this stuff. You didn't cower.

24:07.46 alexei sayle For us. Yeah.

24:18.64 BASSEM Well well I I did it until I couldn't you know as a metaphor. It's funny that you say that like for you for westerns people look at me. It's like oh my God you're brave look at what you did for many Egyptians they think I'm a coward and I'm a sellout that I did I because I left and I didn't allow myself to be put in jail.

24:21.30 talalaban From what you were doing and whereas.

24:37.23 BASSEM Which is another point that I want to speak about which is having to put too much pressure on comedians comedians are not saints or comedians are not Heroes Comedians are not political activists. They can use their comedy in order to push their opinions of course. But.

24:39.59 alexei sayle She he.

24:55.45 BASSEM If it is too dangerous. You should not be hurt for other people's problems because this is the I know that a lot of people I know that I might have a pushback the whole idea about putting comedians on a pedestal and the reason that happens is that comedians come and make fun in an in an environment where everything is dysfunctional.

25:00.61 talalaban Of of.

25:15.63 BASSEM Mediates Dysfunction policy is dysfunctional so people look at comedians and they're like they are the only people who can do their job. Well they me make they make fun of the establishment. They're good at what they do and then suddenly gravity to them and then they just like.

25:22.64 alexei sayle Ah.

25:32.28 BASSEM Put too much hope on them and that is very dangerous because seriously like my role as a Comedian stops at the edge of the screen or the stops or at the edge of the theater I should not go to Jail so people can feel good about themselves and this is I think that like a big thing about like how is like comedy and activism can interact.

25:52.40 alexei sayle E.

25:52.15 BASSEM Yes, of course and at the end of the day I'm a citizen I'm a human being I want my country or whatever country that I live in is better so I use comedy to criticize but at the same time I should not be criticized or penalized because I could not continue doing it because there's threat for me or my family. And I think that is the thing about like ah there's a lot of like ah couch warmers benchwarers who sit around and just want stuff happen to themselves and the other negative part of comedy and satire because there is a cut negative part. A lot of people watch satirists and comedians rip apart the people that they don't like. And they feel that they have done their job then they just do nothing so a lot of people just watch the comedy and the satire and they're making fun of things and then when it happens when it's time to elections. They don't go vote when when Donald Trump was and there's like a million women march in the streets of Los Angeles and people like went out. They went there for the.

26:42.83 alexei sayle Right? yeah.

26:42.96 talalaban I mean.

26:51.11 BASSEM Instagram Opportunities and the pictures and the and the funny little smart ah banners that they did and then the next week there were local elections only 12% showed up you see so I think it is very important to be mindful about. To decide the role of comedy comedy is important satire is important but it cannot do everything as well. I mean there's like a very famous thing that says prayers don't change things prayers change people and people change things same with comedy right? So at the end of the day you do your role. But you cannot really be responsible about changing everything.

27:32.81 talalaban Yeah, but.

27:35.30 alexei sayle Ah, yeah I mean that's a fantastic point I think that that's I you've articulated so many things that I vaguely film.

27:42.15 talalaban Well and and shame on anyone who shame on anyone who called you a chicken for for not wanting to go to Jail That's ridiculous and ah you know like I oh.

27:48.10 BASSEM Well oh no, no am I for many people for the ul revolutions for many islamists I'm like I'm the guy who bailed out and and and and left Egypt just' like because you're you're away. It's like and you know don't speak about things in Egypt because im a no.

28:04.45 talalaban Ah.

28:04.81 BASSEM Yes, because I'm in America and now I am in a different country and my my comedy reflects my life there is that they just want people to go in and do their job for them and and they just want to like and and I and I kind of like I from the very beginning I said I'm a comedian I'm a political satrist I I love what I do.

28:13.84 talalaban No.

28:23.99 BASSEM But I'm not going to be involved in politics and I had like so many offers to be in political partiess like I Ah no no I'm a community do this because I love it and if you guys have a beef I am not someone who is going there to fight with the.

28:28.29 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:38.70 BASSEM Ah, Intelligence apparatus and the government so you can feel good about yourself.

28:43.51 talalaban But what.

28:44.26 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah I think it's very yeah I mean I think it's so important that the committee that what our job is is to make comedy is to make art out of you know the things that we see but we should never. We should never become Activists. We should never become. Um. You know, academics, We should never write books about.

29:03.79 talalaban Yeah, or put ah put ourselves in.

29:03.85 BASSEM Um, we're not. We're not freedom fighters I know that is very like romanticizing over romanticizing of millions is very dangerous.

29:09.99 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah, and sort within the way are um I mean it part of the message of what we're saying is ah they I think the kind of ambiguous nature of who we are that we're not Heroes That's an important part of.

29:11.52 talalaban And.

29:27.22 alexei sayle Come of of ah of well I think of ah of my comedy certainly is too always emphasize that um you know you know don't I'm very flawed really.

29:40.70 talalaban Um, but what I think what we were getting at is that the comedians here didn't even have any threat of of danger. It was more they were protecting their careers or their commercial interest by not.

29:51.34 alexei sayle Yeah, or just yeah.

29:53.94 talalaban Getting involved by not supporting a socialist or or not vocalizing support for Palestine is a big issue here like a lot of people who you know it's so rare that someone will will vocalize their support for Palestine even though you know that they behind closed doors. They do um.

30:01.71 BASSEM Yeah, yeah.

30:09.89 BASSEM Yeah, people people people people are afraid Well here's the thing people are afraid because like they are afraid of like their career and their liveli will be affected and I understand that but the thing is it is I think here here here's one the thing I would rather that you do not.

30:11.61 talalaban Because they know that there's a commercial.

30:27.88 BASSEM Speak about stuff that might hurt your career. But at least they are not doing something that is does not align with their beliefs. So let's say for example, like I am supporting palestine in England I'm ah I'm an english comedian but I'm I'm afraid to speak up I understand that. But. What I will have a problem with if you go and you do the complete opposite in in order to get gains I understand that you don't want to speak up because you don't want to lose but the problem is is what you say in order to gain something especially if what you say does not align with your beliefs.

30:53.73 talalaban M.

31:05.54 BASSEM I Think that you need to make that kind of distinction because I I think like the older I get like you get the more that you understand more about people's ah circumstances and you cannot just like ask to people to do stuff. Everybody has their own issue. Everybody has their own lives. And I think it's the whole idea about like virtue signaling and just like trying to put yourself in ah in a higher moral level than other people and thinking that you are better because you say something Well other don't you know all of us have limitations all of us had issues and. I Just focus about like my own beliefs and and I don't kind of like try to up other people and and and to show I I feel better about myself.

31:52.35 alexei sayle Now No, that's not my approach at all.

31:57.24 BASSEM Um I was talking about myself.

32:01.40 talalaban Ah I was waiting for that. that's that's Alexe's brand

32:01.74 alexei sayle I Take a very I take a very high moral ground. Ah now that that's not me that's not moral. Superiority is all I have left. Yeah, that's.

32:15.87 BASSEM So.

32:19.42 alexei sayle Haughty Disdain out Tala would you like to ask if you have any questions of us. Um, but you going.

32:28.13 talalaban Are you are you ah up for talking about this. Um this film that you're gonna be making as you travel or is that gonna be top secret. This is I can edit this now.

32:35.66 BASSEM Oh yeah, yeah, so I'm actually using the opportunity of this trip. This huro trip I have teamed up with a wonderful filmmaking crew from Paris they're Egyptians Egyptian french and basically what I'm trying to do is instead of just like going to each city and just do my show where I said like I have an opportunity here to this this discover these communities so we started looking for arab comedians who are living in these european countries. And I want to know more about the arab Diaspora the arab immigrant community. The arab there is like a whole lost generation of young arabs after the arab spring who went to Europe either because of immigration because of displacement because of being a refugee. And there is a lot that is related to identity racism acceptance. Not just acceptance by the european committee they're living in but also acceptance by the arab community. They come from and I and I thought like who are the best people to talk to. As a win due to do the community as other than the comedians. So we have lined up amazing talents arab comedians in every single city and we are going to discover the arab diaspora through the eyes of these comedians so we have people in Oslo in Stockholm in Amsterdam and Berlin.

34:09.19 BASSEM People from iraqis yemenis syrian egyptians sudanese who have been either born as an as as as as sons and daughters of immigrants or came here as immigrants we have someone who walked from greece all the way. To Oslo we have someone who had been who crossed the sea in and in and a refugee boat from Syria and and now they are here doing comedy which for me is mind blowing how for them now. Comedy is therapy they are actually talking about their experience through comedy and. They are talking about and they are having problems not just with the community they are settling in but also the communities that they are belonged to many of them are not even accepted. But the arab communities they think their comedy is too much is subversive. It's not it is not appropriate. It does not. It does not align with the tradition and religion where they come from. So for me I think shooting this docu series is going to be ah, it's kind of like Antonio Bourdain but for comedians for arab comedians.

35:17.88 talalaban Yeah.

35:18.92 BASSEM And I think um had yeah yeah, having my own trip.

35:20.24 alexei sayle Ah, presumably. Yeah, hopefully you're not going to kill yourself in hotel rooms.

35:25.33 BASSEM Ah, well you know comedians are very known to be depressed and suicidal. Oh ah, but so yeah, so I'm very excited about discovering more about this community through the eyes of Comedian I'm very very very excited and very.

35:28.32 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:33.74 talalaban Fucking out.

35:42.55 alexei sayle Yeah, it.

35:44.30 BASSEM Ah, thrilled for this beginning this journey.

35:47.66 alexei sayle Sounds amazing I mean I I want to say is it going to be on major platform.

35:56.17 BASSEM We don't know I'm I'm self-financing that show I'm I'm producing it from my I'm self-financing it and hopefully after I finish that we will find a platform to do it I Just got so excited and I said like I decided ah I'm not gonna wait for.

35:57.70 alexei sayle Looking at.

35:57.17 talalaban New.

36:10.40 BASSEM For it to be green lit from a platform I'm going to myself finance it and do it and then hopefully we'll find a home for it somewhere.

36:17.30 alexei sayle It sounds amazing. It sounds absolutely if I I mean will it be when they be talking in english or in arabic or a mixture of 2

36:17.48 talalaban Nice.

36:22.35 BASSEM Mostly is going to be in Arabic I'm sorry but hopefully we're going to do another but but but you know they could be dubbed. It could be trained I So we will no, we will Actually we find a way to either of it or subtittle so it can reach as many people as possible.

36:29.83 alexei sayle That's our Lightway album.

36:41.83 alexei sayle Even English films these days I Want to watch them with subtitles because you know so I'm so pretentious that ah well, that's also true. Yeah, but ah, you know I have everything has to be um, subtitled for me.

36:43.62 BASSEM Yes, and yeah I can't I can't hear their dialogue anymore.

36:58.96 alexei sayle Um, I mean I think that um, you've given me so much to think about you know in terms of my own.. Ah you right? I mean I think I mean I guess you've thought a lot about um, um, um, what it is to be a comedian. Really I mean you, you've articulated a lot of things that i' have felt but never really. And manage to to bring to the front of my brain I mean there's I mean is that a conscious I mean you just Dev evolved these ideas or is your part was it and is it being a surgeon what way? Why? Why do you know so much. Why are you so clever.

37:38.10 BASSEM Um, yeah because I'm a nerds I'm a nerd. Ah.

37:43.12 talalaban Okay.

37:44.65 alexei sayle It is that what it? um I Well I think I mean I think we've really I mean you've well you flown in from. Okay.

37:46.10 BASSEM Yeah, yeah.

37:53.00 talalaban Well, did we want to touch on Palestine a bit because we the last 2 episodes we're on a bit of a streak I don't know if you want to talk about it. But ah we had with the last 2 episodes. We spoke about we've done Palestine focused episodes. Um. So maybe this is a way of transitioning out of it because we had a non-arab muslim who went to palestine and then we had a jewish south african who spent a lot of time palestine on the other episode and now we're talking to an arab but we've. Pretty much avoided talking about palestine with the actual with the first actual arab we've had on the show.

38:24.54 BASSEM Um, no, it's not a avoid as a matter as a matter of fact, as as a matter of fact, my wife is half palestinian her father is from Gaza ah, and so you know you can get more palestinian than this you know, but the thing is I it is very um.

38:26.47 alexei sayle Death.

38:43.85 BASSEM Have you have to be very careful about how use Palestine. Ah, or ah as ah as a political discussion point because I'm telling you. There are no one can speak about palestine like palestinians themselves. And but there is so many palestinians who live inside Israel who live in the occupied territory in Gaza and the west back and they have a different and the people outside are the more they are basically they' are more royal than the king right? and they there there is a way to There's a kind of like how do you call it a more of a witch hunt that if you don't speak about palestine in the sad same exact tone in the way that we want you are going to be labeled as anti-palestinian or prozionist all right which like happens to me like I in um, and and there's like a. It. It really hurts us as arabs and people who are pro the palelestinian cause that we do not make ah a very very clear distinction because what does it mean to be a zionist or does it know what does it mean to be a jew because there are many liberal jews who are on our side. But the thing like Jon Stewart for example. Jon Stewart is someone who came up many times and he talked about like the atrocities of the israeli forces in Gaza and yet I was accused of being ah anti-palestinian pro- israeli because I was on his show because he's a jew.

40:09.59 alexei sayle So.

40:18.34 BASSEM We as arabs. We are not educated enough many of us are not educating us to talk about this and we end up at the end of the day being hateful because we do not with there is a big distinction about your political view and about your religion about where you come from right. Ah, like there is for there's people who are arab israeliteis like arabs who live in Israel Israel who do not want to be a part of this and they want to live their life and they don't want to be like pulled into the political discussion and and instead of winning them over are them away.

40:52.39 alexei sayle Ah, good. Yeah.

40:55.33 BASSEM So the whole this this whole and I think this is like a big like a smaller part of a bigger issue which is all or none. It's like the George W Bush thing if you're not with me, you're against me. There are people who just don't want to be part of it all right? and you do not need to alienate those people too. There is a way to talk about palestine that is beneficial for the palestinian people. But when you go in with hate with anti-jewish anti anything that does not work talk exactly like you. It isn't it is counterproductive for your cause it is very dangerous.

41:30.56 talalaban I Think we have a more nuanced way of talking about it on this show and alexi is one of the liberal liberal Jews that you mentioned himself and and yeah, we and absolutely.

41:39.19 alexei sayle Um, now I'm one of those liberal Jews yeah, but no, it's a fair point I mean I think that a yeah yeah. yeah

41:43.71 BASSEM Um, yeah, um.

41:49.66 talalaban I hate it when people push their hate onto me just and they they assume I will jump in on it because I'm arab. They assume I will enjoy their anti-semitic jokes or or whatever. It's like I don't want anything to put hate in my heart I'm i. Love and support palestine that doesn't mean I hate anything and they they don't have to go hand in hand and you go on Alexi. No.

42:06.41 BASSEM Um, absolutely yeah.

42:11.89 BASSEM Yeah, yeah, and for example, like if I'm I'm someone who lives I like like if someone there like there is like ways to talk about especially that we have to admit that we are late in the game Arabs are late in the game.

42:12.75 alexei sayle You.

42:28.34 BASSEM We are late in the in in the media game. We are late into political game. We are laid in in in that kind of game so they have already the Israel point of view has already been established and popularized in the west for more than us. So there is an in the smart way. An intelligent way in order to come in. So for example. If I am in America and I want to talk about the palestinian issue I will not talk about israeli-palestinian and the bombs and whatever I will just talk I was like you know I would love to talk about the palestinian issue if I am allowed to talk about it because as an american I'm an american citizen I can talk shit about the american president I can say the most. Horrible things about the american president. But I if I talk about the israeli government I will be labeled as anti-semitic if I call up talk about the israeli prime minister I would be labeled as him if I question the kind of aid that America gives as I'm a taxpayer I'm I'm an american taxpayer.

43:15.48 alexei sayle There.

43:16.28 talalaban Um, you know.

43:26.52 BASSEM Where my taxes is going to Israel and other countries even in the Middle East who ah take a lot of aid money from America and then abuse it whether they with Israel would that abuse the the palestinian or other arab countries who abuse their own citizens if I talk about that from about Israel I'll be talk about anti-semitic. So there's a way to. Talk about things by showing people what you cannot talk about and then that will pay make people ask questions.

43:50.32 alexei sayle All right? Okay, yeah, yeah, right? Ah yeah, that's a very um novel different approach. Wow.

43:50.96 talalaban Um, yeah.

44:06.41 alexei sayle You've just flown in from um Los Angeles and you you're in ah your hotel room in Paris you're going to go. You're gonna go I'm I'm just wary of keeping you. We'll let you go in a minute really, you're gonna you're gonna like try and stay off or youre just going to crash now.

44:07.68 BASSEM To the changes. Yes.

44:20.59 BASSEM Well I'll try to stay up to meet my Jet lag. You need to beat the Jet lag. So if you sleep now I'm not gonna be asleep So I'm just gonna try to like drink coffee and be up.

44:23.30 alexei sayle Ah, go go and go to the Lou for yeah, ah, ah.

44:33.53 talalaban What you looking forward to doing in Paris because you've got a couple days before your show, don't you.

44:39.21 BASSEM Um, well I'm looking tomorrow have ah well tomorrow we're going to have the the first but ah, ah, patch of interviews with the arab comedians. So this is going to be something I'm very very looking forward to and after tomorrow is my show of course I look up that's going to be the beginning of the tour. So hopefully we're not gonna jinx it. So yeah I'm I'm very excited I'm excited to come to London next week so promote the show guys. We're only 40% we are kind of like I think 40 and sold but like there is still like ah ten days so yeah

44:56.53 alexei sayle You.

45:02.26 alexei sayle Yeah, absolutely.

45:13.40 BASSEM So your friends.

45:14.40 alexei sayle Yeah, we will. We will? what? um, who's promoting your ah European tour all right? Well they've got you know they've got a resources. They're big.

45:20.55 BASSEM Um, live nation.

45:24.86 BASSEM Oh one? yeah.

45:32.37 alexei sayle Ah, big. Ah well, ah yeah I'm sure it will fucking promote the shit everybody listen fucking.

45:33.76 talalaban Yeah, let's promote this shit here. We go. Ah, once again, once again Thursday the ninth of March in the South Bank Center Basse Yousef and with myself and Omar bedawi my favorite Uk arab comic he's one of the funniest.

45:40.83 BASSEM Yeah.

45:51.28 talalaban Mother crushes I've seen out there. Ah arab or not He's just so funny and that's the whole point as well like why should our race define us as as as artists, but still Omar bedui and myself opening for basam yusif on Thursday the night that the south bank center in London and then the next day the tenth what I have in the diary is Birmingham at the old rep with ah and then after that on the eleventh bassim is in Manchester can't remember which venue you're in which venue is it in Manchester.

46:16.60 BASSEM Yep.

46:20.29 alexei sayle Where you playing the Manchester now.

46:25.30 BASSEM I'm playing Manchester I don't know about ah Omar and and Talal because it's more of a logistic issues because it's either for them to come with a train but like if you go to Manchester they're gonna be planes and it's gonna be just like too much but we will see.

46:38.92 talalaban No, we're asking which venue.

46:39.10 BASSEM But I have something for it to tell you alexi by the way. Oh oh, which then you I don't have it in front. But it's gonna be in just say best music and meches. It's gonna be 1 person. Yes, so Alexi I have something to tell you.

46:40.71 alexei sayle Um, yeah, boom.

46:47.60 talalaban It's it's the O two rix the O Two Ritz The O Two rit.

46:50.16 alexei sayle Yeah, he's in the place in Manchester. Yes.

46:56.20 BASSEM I have I have a so on the seventh one the day the day that I arrive in London I am doing an a promotional interview on a Tv show guess who I am going to be on his show.

47:10.56 alexei sayle Oh Michael Mcintyre now um Pis Morgan ah pis morgan custom sun mac

47:13.87 talalaban Piers Morgan ah ah far

47:16.27 BASSEM Here's Morgan.

47:25.44 talalaban Ah, fuck no way.

47:27.00 BASSEM Um, yeah.

47:31.41 alexei sayle And.

47:32.19 BASSEM Um, as going to be an interesting show.

47:33.90 talalaban Why.

47:38.60 alexei sayle Um, yeah, fact, well.

47:38.83 talalaban Are you? Okay, this it will be interesting because you will have a debate. You'll properly lay into each other and I suppose that's what Tv is for isn't it to make it something interesting. Not just 2 people who agree with each other nodding nodding at each other.

47:41.25 BASSEM Um, yeah.

47:50.11 BASSEM Um I don't care as long as we sell tickets I don't care if I am on the with the Devin on his show. Um.

47:54.44 alexei sayle Um, yeah, well I somebody told me once that um, ah just laugh at his jokes find him amusing and then he will be really nice to you will be my that that is what I have I have been told.

48:06.93 talalaban Now fucked up.

48:07.35 BASSEM Or we can go into a fight make that segment go viral and that will even be better.

48:10.15 alexei sayle Laugh I.

48:14.49 talalaban Um, yeah, that's the 1

48:15.48 alexei sayle Yeah, yeah, ah you could take him I mean you could fuck it. He's he's flabby and fucking you know degenerate. Really, you could fucking have him man you? yeah.

48:20.84 BASSEM Will will see.

48:23.47 talalaban Take because you're arab. He's probably going to try and ah talk to you about refugees the refugees swarming our country and swarming the beaches and shit he's going to try and hold you accountable for our for our land being overtaken by refugees. So ah.

48:34.54 BASSEM Yeah.

48:40.42 talalaban I Actually look forward to seeing seeing what comes of that.

48:40.77 alexei sayle He's not. He's not yeah, he's not an idea he's he's I mean he's sort of venal and um, you know come to the end of his usefulness I think but um, he's a you know.

48:53.78 BASSEM Yeah, yeah.

48:57.21 alexei sayle Ah, you he probably bands. You'll probably be all right I would think really? Ah yeah.

48:59.13 BASSEM We would. It would be interesting, especially especially that like okay like you have okay Taal you have to cut this from the podcast because like I don't want him to or his team to to see this before the show.

49:13.53 talalaban Okay.

49:13.54 alexei sayle Shook.

49:14.53 BASSEM So he blocked me on Twitter because I kind of like went on him on Twitter for being suchger fucking capgan. So that's going to be very interesting.

49:21.29 alexei sayle The.

49:23.84 talalaban Ah, share. That's amazing.

49:24.47 BASSEM So tell all cut that from the podcast. Don't dont don't don't play. Don't play that part. Okay, yeah.

49:34.52 talalaban Okay, okay, all right? Um, we're gonna put this out as quick as possible. So that people can hear it before the show. Okay, um, thank you for coming on.

49:35.99 BASSEM Yeah.

49:38.86 alexei sayle Yeah defo yeah like that was so interesting and hopefully hopefully see you on the ninth.

49:41.82 BASSEM Thank you, thank you and and but and and get until the part of that Twitter blocking. Okay.

49:48.67 talalaban Of course, yeah, and after we say Goodbye don't close the window yet. Yeah remember.

49:52.94 BASSEM All right all right? Yes I would love it. It would be amazing to have your Alex please and tell your friends alexi tell your white people tell you white friends to come the show I can just an arabs in the in the theater come on all.

49:57.61 talalaban Yeah.

49:58.55 alexei sayle Festival Hall. Yeah I would yeah I will up. Yeah, all right I will I haven't don't have many friends but.

50:12.17 BASSEM Thank you And yeah of me.

50:14.93 talalaban Yes, you do alexi come on. Don't get depressing at the end of the episode bring some energy when we say Goodbye come on off a fuck say okay bye everyone Bye Bye Sam Thank you.

50:17.53 alexei sayle I don't so I'm so Ill yeah Bye by Bye Bye. Thank you very much but by have you to you.

50:27.17 BASSEM Um, thank you so much. Thanks for having me see you.