Audioboom

Transcript for Supporting children’s mental health and wellbeing in schools

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George Linfield (Producer): Please note: this episode

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George Linfield (Producer): contains reference to suicide

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George Linfield (Producer): and self-harm.

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Intro: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where we

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Intro: share learning and expertise in child protection from

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Intro: inside and outside of the organisation.

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Intro: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and

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Intro: share good practice on how we can all work together

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Intro: to keep babies, children and young people

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Intro: safe.

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George Linfield (Producer): Hello, and welcome to the NSPCC

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George Linfield (Producer): Learning Podcast.

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George Linfield (Producer): This episode, recorded in

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George Linfield (Producer): February 2023, focuses on mental

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George Linfield (Producer): health in schools and other

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George Linfield (Producer): education settings.

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George Linfield (Producer): Mental health is as important to

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George Linfield (Producer): a child's safety and wellbeing

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George Linfield (Producer): as their physical health.

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George Linfield (Producer): Mental health problems can impact

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George Linfield (Producer): on all aspects of a child's life

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George Linfield (Producer): and in some cases can lead to

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George Linfield (Producer): safeguarding and child protection

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George Linfield (Producer): concerns.

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George Linfield (Producer): It's a topic that professionals

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George Linfield (Producer): working with children need to be

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George Linfield (Producer): aware of. Data from NHS Digital

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George Linfield (Producer): estimates that, in England in

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George Linfield (Producer): 2022, one in six children aged 7

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George Linfield (Producer): to 16 years had a probable

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George Linfield (Producer): mental health condition. And

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George Linfield (Producer): mental or emotional health

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George Linfield (Producer): remains the top concern for

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George Linfield (Producer): children and young people contacting

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George Linfield (Producer): Childline with the topic making

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George Linfield (Producer): up 35% of all counselling

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George Linfield (Producer): sessions where children talked

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George Linfield (Producer): about their own concerns. Because

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George Linfield (Producer): most children spend much of

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George Linfield (Producer): their time in school, education

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George Linfield (Producer): professionals are in a good position

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George Linfield (Producer): to look out for children's mental

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George Linfield (Producer): health, to promote their

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George Linfield (Producer): wellbeing, and help prevent any

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George Linfield (Producer): problems from escalating into

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George Linfield (Producer): more serious concerns.

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George Linfield (Producer): I'm really pleased to be joined

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George Linfield (Producer): today by experts from Place2Be

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George Linfield (Producer): and Childline to discuss the

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George Linfield (Producer): different ways that education

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George Linfield (Producer): professionals can provide this

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George Linfield (Producer): support.

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Sharon Cole: My name is Sharon Cole, and I'm Head of

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Sharon Cole: Safeguarding at Place2Be, a children's mental

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Sharon Cole: health charity that provides services in

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Sharon Cole: schools.

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Speaker 3: I'm Stef, Stefania Nicotra, and I

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Speaker 3: work at Childline as a Team Manager.

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Speaker 3: Part of my role is safeguarding young people.

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George Linfield (Producer): Welcome to you both. Thanks for joining

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George Linfield (Producer): me. Sharon, I wonder if you

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George Linfield (Producer): could kick off our discussion today

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George Linfield (Producer): by giving us a quick overview of

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George Linfield (Producer): what the landscape looks like

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George Linfield (Producer): for children's mental health currently.

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George Linfield (Producer): What problems are children

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George Linfield (Producer): facing?

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Sharon Cole: I think young people face

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Sharon Cole: so many mental health problems. They might have

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Sharon Cole: had particular adverse childhood experiences

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Sharon Cole: or ACEs. They may be living in a home where

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Sharon Cole: there's not much engagement or where they

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Sharon Cole: are the carer for a parent, or they are exposed

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Sharon Cole: to a lot of anger or violence in their home.

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Sharon Cole: There may also be general anxieties about life.

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Sharon Cole: There are large populations of young people

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Sharon Cole: who've gone through COVID and experienced

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Sharon Cole: isolation and have found re-socialising really

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Sharon Cole: hard.

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Sharon Cole: This might be one of the factors in the higher

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Sharon Cole: number of young people that we are seeing that

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Sharon Cole: are self-harming and experiencing suicidal

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Sharon Cole: ideation.

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Sharon Cole: And also we've seen a large increase in young

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Sharon Cole: people that are struggling with eating difficulties

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Sharon Cole: and eating disorders.

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George Linfield (Producer): Thanks, Sharon.

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George Linfield (Producer): Stef, does that chime with you and what

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George Linfield (Producer): you're seeing in Childline counselling

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George Linfield (Producer): sessions?

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Stefania Nicotra: Yes, absolutely. I think at Childline

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Stefania Nicotra: we're kind of uniquely privileged to be

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Stefania Nicotra: able to talk to young people about any

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Stefania Nicotra: issues that they might face, and I guess

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Stefania Nicotra: mental health is always at the core of

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Stefania Nicotra: that, and how are young people cope

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Stefania Nicotra: with any issues that are going on in their

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Stefania Nicotra: life. Young people tell us that they are

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Stefania Nicotra: struggling more and more recently

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Stefania Nicotra: and they might have diagnoses in place

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Stefania Nicotra: by professionals.

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Stefania Nicotra: And so there may be existing

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Stefania Nicotra: supportive networks or strategies that

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Stefania Nicotra: they might use or they might come to

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Stefania Nicotra: Childline and actually they have never

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Stefania Nicotra: told anyone how they're feeling, and how

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Stefania Nicotra: they're feeling can span over a range of

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Stefania Nicotra: emotions from just feeling low right the

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Stefania Nicotra: way through to feeling suicidal and

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Stefania Nicotra: intending to take their own life, for

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Stefania Nicotra: instance, where it becomes more of a

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Stefania Nicotra: safeguarding concern.

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George Linfield (Producer): We're talking there about young people

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George Linfield (Producer): contacting Childline, but some

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George Linfield (Producer): children might not feel comfortable

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George Linfield (Producer): speaking out about how they're feeling.

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George Linfield (Producer): So what are some of the signs

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George Linfield (Producer): that professionals can look out

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George Linfield (Producer): for that a young person might be

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George Linfield (Producer): struggling with their mental health?

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Sharon Cole: Well, I think a change in behaviour is one

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Sharon Cole: thing. They could be withdrawn but they could

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Sharon Cole: be totally the opposite of withdrawn.

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Sharon Cole: I think young people can be very good at

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Sharon Cole: masking how they're feeling.

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Sharon Cole: So you might not see any signs, but

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Sharon Cole: the majority of the time a change of behaviour

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Sharon Cole: I think is something that I would be looking

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Sharon Cole: out for.

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Stefania Nicotra: Things like sleeping problems, poor

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Stefania Nicotra: academic behaviour performance.

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Stefania Nicotra: There are lots of different ways in which

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Stefania Nicotra: you can identify that someone might be

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Stefania Nicotra: struggling, but it's important that we

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Stefania Nicotra: don't attempt to diagnose a mental health

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Stefania Nicotra: issue ourselves or make assumptions about

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Stefania Nicotra: what's happening in a child's life, and

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Stefania Nicotra: really asking open questions and letting

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Stefania Nicotra: them go at their own pace. Because

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Stefania Nicotra: actually a disclosure or a conversation

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Stefania Nicotra: about mental health may not happen all at

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Stefania Nicotra: once. It may happen over a period of time.

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Stefania Nicotra: And letting young people know that they

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Stefania Nicotra: can come back to you is really important.

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George Linfield (Producer): And we've touched on this a bit

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George Linfield (Producer): already, but when does a mental

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George Linfield (Producer): health concern escalate into a

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George Linfield (Producer): safeguarding concern?

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Sharon Cole: I mean, I think

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Sharon Cole: it becomes a safeguarding concern when we've identified a risk

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Sharon Cole: of harm to the actual person or

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Sharon Cole: that they've identified others that are at

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Sharon Cole: risk.

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Sharon Cole: Also, it's important that schools and visiting

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Sharon Cole: professionals respond appropriately to

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Sharon Cole: safeguarding concerns, in

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Sharon Cole: a timely way and ensure caregivers are involved

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Sharon Cole: in support plans as much as possible.

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Stefania Nicotra: Lots of young people talk to us about

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Stefania Nicotra: abuse that happens at home,

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Stefania Nicotra: and that can lead to harmful

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Stefania Nicotra: ways of coping that can put a young

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Stefania Nicotra: person's life at immediate risk.

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Stefania Nicotra: We must do whatever we can to keep young

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Stefania Nicotra: people safe, and we always must consider

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Stefania Nicotra: whether we need to take any action to

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Stefania Nicotra: protect young people.

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Stefania Nicotra: At Childline, we use a mental

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Stefania Nicotra: health continuum model.

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Stefania Nicotra: You know, we recognise that everyone has

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Stefania Nicotra: their own mental health and everybody can

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Stefania Nicotra: have days where they are struggling

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Stefania Nicotra: more or less with how they're feeling.

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Stefania Nicotra: The continuum model essentially helps

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Stefania Nicotra: our counsellors to think about mental

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Stefania Nicotra: health as more of a spectrum.

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Stefania Nicotra: So we've sort of broken it down into four

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Stefania Nicotra: categories where a person might move

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Stefania Nicotra: within those categories.

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Stefania Nicotra: So it might be that a young person

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Stefania Nicotra: presents to a counsellor as 'doing well',

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Stefania Nicotra: they're doing okay, they say life is

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Stefania Nicotra: generally okay. They may have some ups and

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Stefania Nicotra: downs like there has been a recent fall

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Stefania Nicotra: out with a friend or a test in school

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Stefania Nicotra: didn't go quite well, but generally

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Stefania Nicotra: there's lots of resilience and a young

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Stefania Nicotra: person can bounce back from what's

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Stefania Nicotra: happened. Moving up the scale, we might

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Stefania Nicotra: recognise that young person is

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Stefania Nicotra: 'struggling' and there are changes

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Stefania Nicotra: in their moods and behaviour.

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Stefania Nicotra: They might talk to us about struggling

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Stefania Nicotra: with sleep and eating, but again, it's not

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Stefania Nicotra: something that is quite a

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Stefania Nicotra: safeguarding concern as of yet.

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Stefania Nicotra: When we start to really worry about young

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Stefania Nicotra: people, we talk about young people being

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Stefania Nicotra: 'unwell'. So there may be diagnosed

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Stefania Nicotra: mental health conditions or problems

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Stefania Nicotra: like an eating disorder or

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Stefania Nicotra: an anxiety disorder or whatever it might

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Stefania Nicotra: be, and it might not be diagnosed

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Stefania Nicotra: but the young person is... We identify them as being unwell

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Stefania Nicotra: because they are not able to cope

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Stefania Nicotra: with those experiences that they're going

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Stefania Nicotra: through. And actually they might be

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Stefania Nicotra: completely isolated, unable to talk to

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Stefania Nicotra: the people around them and feel really

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Stefania Nicotra: reluctant to seek support.

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Stefania Nicotra: There may be trust issues.

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Stefania Nicotra: And again, moving sort of past that stage

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Stefania Nicotra: in the continuum, we talk about young

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Stefania Nicotra: people being 'in crisis' -- so a mental

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Stefania Nicotra: health crisis -- so a young person who's

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Stefania Nicotra: actually unable to engage with normal

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Stefania Nicotra: support services that are in place for

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Stefania Nicotra: them and they

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Stefania Nicotra: may be struggling with more severe mental

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Stefania Nicotra: health problems like hearing voices.

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Stefania Nicotra: They've perhaps taken numerous attempts to

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Stefania Nicotra: take their own life.

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Stefania Nicotra: When they contact Childline, they may be

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Stefania Nicotra: highly disregulated, and that

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Stefania Nicotra: might look like lots of different things,

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Stefania Nicotra: like unable to engage completely, being

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Stefania Nicotra: very quiet, or being very angry

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Stefania Nicotra: and ruminating over an issue over and over

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Stefania Nicotra: again, being very distrustful of services

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Stefania Nicotra: and people around them.

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Stefania Nicotra: And when they're in crisis, at that point

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Stefania Nicotra: they've normally taken some form--

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Stefania Nicotra: they've taken some steps to harm

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Stefania Nicotra: themselves in some way.

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Stefania Nicotra: That means that safeguarding is required,

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Stefania Nicotra: and that's the priority over

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Stefania Nicotra: and above exploring what what has led to

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Stefania Nicotra: that point.

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George Linfield (Producer): Thanks, Stef. It is really

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George Linfield (Producer): important to remember that a person's

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George Linfield (Producer): mental health is always changing

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George Linfield (Producer): and the continuum model is a useful

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George Linfield (Producer): way of gauging how a young

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George Linfield (Producer): person is feeling and whether

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George Linfield (Producer): they might need more support, so

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George Linfield (Producer): thank you for introducing that tool.

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George Linfield (Producer): I'd like to move on now to talk

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George Linfield (Producer): about the role that schools can

00:09:28,580 → 00:09:30,499

George Linfield (Producer): play in supporting young people

00:09:30,500 → 00:09:31,879

George Linfield (Producer): with their mental health and

00:09:31,880 → 00:09:33,319

George Linfield (Producer): potentially preventing any

00:09:33,320 → 00:09:35,029

George Linfield (Producer): difficulties from escalating

00:09:35,030 → 00:09:36,889

George Linfield (Producer): into those safeguarding concerns

00:09:36,890 → 00:09:38,449

George Linfield (Producer): that we've been discussing.

00:09:38,450 → 00:09:39,799

George Linfield (Producer): Sharon, please, can you start us

00:09:39,800 → 00:09:41,479

George Linfield (Producer): off? Why is it so important for

00:09:41,480 → 00:09:43,939

George Linfield (Producer): schools to look after students'

00:09:43,940 → 00:09:44,912

George Linfield (Producer): mental health and wellbeing?

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Sharon Cole: Well, as you mentioned earlier, young people

00:09:48,020 → 00:09:50,449

Sharon Cole: spend the majority of their time in schools.

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Sharon Cole: And so it's going to be one of those places

00:09:52,970 → 00:09:54,829

Sharon Cole: that they're more likely to disclose about how

00:09:54,830 → 00:09:58,049

Sharon Cole: they're feeling; and actually dealing with in

00:09:58,050 → 00:10:01,099

Sharon Cole: person's mental health in the early stages

00:10:01,100 → 00:10:04,159

Sharon Cole: could prevent it escalating into adulthood.

00:10:05,300 → 00:10:08,449

Sharon Cole: I think it's really important that schools

00:10:08,450 → 00:10:10,729

Sharon Cole: provide that environment for young people that

00:10:10,730 → 00:10:13,191

Sharon Cole: it's okay to talk about mental health.

00:10:13,192 → 00:10:14,729

George Linfield (Producer): What does that environment look like?

00:10:14,730 → 00:10:16,399

George Linfield (Producer): How can we go about creating

00:10:16,400 → 00:10:16,639

George Linfield (Producer): that environment?

00:10:16,640 → 00:10:19,879

Sharon Cole: I think it's really important

00:10:19,880 → 00:10:23,029

Sharon Cole: to have an openness, to really listen to

00:10:23,030 → 00:10:25,661

Sharon Cole: what people are saying and take that time,

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Sharon Cole: however busy you are, to listen.

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Sharon Cole: I think it's really important that we don't

00:10:30,620 → 00:10:32,959

Sharon Cole: miss things that are going on because we're so

00:10:32,960 → 00:10:34,789

Sharon Cole: busy and we're rushing around and we've got

00:10:34,790 → 00:10:37,879

Sharon Cole: things to do. And even if you can't

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Sharon Cole: speak to the person at that moment, then say,

00:10:40,840 → 00:10:42,289

Sharon Cole: "look, I really want to hear what you have to

00:10:42,290 → 00:10:43,290

Sharon Cole: say.

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Sharon Cole: Can you meet me at this time and we can talk?"

00:10:45,259 → 00:10:48,439

Sharon Cole: And I think just making

00:10:48,440 → 00:10:51,529

Sharon Cole: sure that there is time in a school day

00:10:51,530 → 00:10:54,578

Sharon Cole: for wellbeing to be discussed.

00:10:54,579 → 00:10:57,949

Sharon Cole: Having workshops where you're actually

00:10:57,950 → 00:10:59,659

Sharon Cole: talking to young people about what is mental

00:10:59,660 → 00:11:01,309

Sharon Cole: health, getting them to say what they think

00:11:01,310 → 00:11:03,763

Sharon Cole: mental health is and and having that narrative

00:11:03,764 → 00:11:05,948

Sharon Cole: ongoing in school.

00:11:06,950 → 00:11:09,979

Sharon Cole: Also that wherever possible schools can provide

00:11:09,980 → 00:11:11,599

Sharon Cole: counselling services in house where young

00:11:11,600 → 00:11:13,519

Sharon Cole: people can talk about their worries and

00:11:13,520 → 00:11:15,979

Sharon Cole: concerns. What I also think is important is

00:11:15,980 → 00:11:19,099

Sharon Cole: that we also educate parents around mental

00:11:19,100 → 00:11:22,069

Sharon Cole: health because it's okay with us talking to

00:11:22,070 → 00:11:23,719

Sharon Cole: young people about mental health but if they're going home

00:11:23,720 → 00:11:26,839

Sharon Cole: to parents who are not very good at

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Sharon Cole: having those conversations or not very aware,

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Sharon Cole: then it could be helpful if some education is

00:11:31,760 → 00:11:33,139

Sharon Cole: done around that.

00:11:33,140 → 00:11:36,109

Stefania Nicotra: I think it's really important to provide

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Stefania Nicotra: that healthy environment and I think we

00:11:39,350 → 00:11:41,989

Stefania Nicotra: have to really tune into individual needs

00:11:41,990 → 00:11:44,269

Stefania Nicotra: as well. We want to be able to promote

00:11:44,270 → 00:11:46,609

Stefania Nicotra: resilience and autonomy to some extent,

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Stefania Nicotra: and allow people to talk about problems

00:11:49,460 → 00:11:51,049

Stefania Nicotra: when they are ready.

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Stefania Nicotra: But balancing that against, you know, does

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Stefania Nicotra: this young person need to be safe right

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Stefania Nicotra: now? Do they need safeguarding right now?

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Stefania Nicotra: We mentioned family and, you know,

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Stefania Nicotra: families, friends, schools can help to

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Stefania Nicotra: provide some routine and structure as that

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Stefania Nicotra: can go a long way with managing mental

00:12:09,250 → 00:12:10,250

Stefania Nicotra: health.

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Stefania Nicotra: And of course, being wary that that

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Stefania Nicotra: routine or structure is healthy and,

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Stefania Nicotra: you know, again doesn't contradict the

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Stefania Nicotra: work that we're trying to do.

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Stefania Nicotra: If the person has an eating disorder and

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Stefania Nicotra: they're likely to ruminate or have a

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Stefania Nicotra: perfectionist mind frame,

00:12:29,740 → 00:12:32,679

Stefania Nicotra: too much routine is not very good.

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Stefania Nicotra: So it's a really tuning into

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Stefania Nicotra: individual needs.

00:12:37,180 → 00:12:39,669

Stefania Nicotra: And parents and families work really

00:12:39,670 → 00:12:41,769

Stefania Nicotra: closely with schools often, and they can

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Stefania Nicotra: do a really fantastic job when it comes to

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Stefania Nicotra: promoting mental health.

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Stefania Nicotra: They need support too.

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Stefania Nicotra: And we need to, as professionals, remove

00:12:50,320 → 00:12:53,529

Stefania Nicotra: some stigma around what they

00:12:53,530 → 00:12:55,509

Stefania Nicotra: should know, what they're already expected

00:12:55,510 → 00:12:58,599

Stefania Nicotra: to know, and just focus on what tools

00:12:58,600 → 00:12:59,979

Stefania Nicotra: we can provide for them.

00:13:01,020 → 00:13:02,939

George Linfield (Producer): Absolutely. Thank you, Stef.

00:13:02,940 → 00:13:04,349

George Linfield (Producer): I wanted to jump back to something

00:13:04,350 → 00:13:05,999

George Linfield (Producer): you said, Sharon, about mental

00:13:06,000 → 00:13:07,319

George Linfield (Producer): health workshops for young

00:13:07,320 → 00:13:09,059

George Linfield (Producer): people. What do those workshops

00:13:09,060 → 00:13:09,468

George Linfield (Producer): look like?

00:13:09,469 → 00:13:12,089

Sharon Cole: They've been run differently in different

00:13:12,090 → 00:13:15,119

Sharon Cole: schools but we've tended to

00:13:15,120 → 00:13:16,529

Sharon Cole: look at... have lots of,

00:13:18,820 → 00:13:21,609

Sharon Cole: sort of, cards with different sort of titles

00:13:21,610 → 00:13:24,459

Sharon Cole: like... we've got different types of mental

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Sharon Cole: health, I suppose, and for young people to

00:13:26,650 → 00:13:29,709

Sharon Cole: identify which ones are mental health

00:13:29,710 → 00:13:31,569

Sharon Cole: and which ones are not mental health.

00:13:31,570 → 00:13:34,239

Sharon Cole: We're trying to say that everyone has a level

00:13:34,240 → 00:13:36,159

Sharon Cole: of mental health every day.

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Sharon Cole: And, you know, sometimes it's good and

00:13:38,080 → 00:13:41,439

Sharon Cole: sometimes it's not so good and it's okay.

00:13:41,440 → 00:13:44,079

Sharon Cole: And it's about just identifying those different

00:13:44,080 → 00:13:47,169

Sharon Cole: things for young people and relieving that

00:13:47,170 → 00:13:49,149

Sharon Cole: stigma, that mental health is something that

00:13:49,150 → 00:13:52,569

Sharon Cole: you don't want to be identified with

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Sharon Cole: and making sure that they feel comfortable

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Sharon Cole: and having those conversations.

00:13:58,600 → 00:14:01,179

Sharon Cole: And it's okay. And we do see the difference

00:14:01,180 → 00:14:03,519

Sharon Cole: that that makes in the conversations that

00:14:03,520 → 00:14:06,549

Sharon Cole: people have with each other and staff

00:14:06,550 → 00:14:09,339

Sharon Cole: after those workshops.

00:14:09,340 → 00:14:12,579

Sharon Cole: But there's different ways that people

00:14:12,580 → 00:14:15,729

Sharon Cole: are doing this across the UK in the schools.

00:14:15,730 → 00:14:17,709

Sharon Cole: But I think mainly it's just happy that

00:14:17,710 → 00:14:21,129

Sharon Cole: conversation about what is mental health and

00:14:21,130 → 00:14:24,219

Sharon Cole: and just getting rid of the stigma and and sort

00:14:24,220 → 00:14:26,499

Sharon Cole: of getting more clarity for young people.

00:14:26,500 → 00:14:28,959

Stefania Nicotra: We talked about providing sort of an

00:14:28,960 → 00:14:31,479

Stefania Nicotra: environment where young people feel like

00:14:31,480 → 00:14:34,029

Stefania Nicotra: they can talk about what's going on for

00:14:34,030 → 00:14:37,119

Stefania Nicotra: for them. But actually that might not

00:14:37,120 → 00:14:38,619

Stefania Nicotra: always be as easy.

00:14:38,620 → 00:14:40,419

Stefania Nicotra: You know, it's always easier said than

00:14:40,420 → 00:14:41,420

Stefania Nicotra: done.

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Stefania Nicotra: Young people can find it hard to talk

00:14:45,130 → 00:14:47,049

Stefania Nicotra: for a number of different reasons.

00:14:47,050 → 00:14:50,259

Stefania Nicotra: It might be that they're scared to be

00:14:50,260 → 00:14:52,899

Stefania Nicotra: labelled as attention seeking or crazy, or

00:14:52,900 → 00:14:54,789

Stefania Nicotra: that no one will believe them.

00:14:54,790 → 00:14:56,169

Stefania Nicotra: Or it might be that actually they don't

00:14:56,170 → 00:14:59,109

Stefania Nicotra: have the capacity to put into words what

00:14:59,110 → 00:15:00,549

Stefania Nicotra: it is that they're going through.

00:15:01,720 → 00:15:04,029

Stefania Nicotra: And I think when working in a school or

00:15:04,030 → 00:15:06,669

Stefania Nicotra: working anywhere with young people,

00:15:06,670 → 00:15:09,519

Stefania Nicotra: finding different ways to allow young

00:15:09,520 → 00:15:12,069

Stefania Nicotra: people to open up, so whether it be

00:15:12,070 → 00:15:15,489

Stefania Nicotra: through an activity like a sport

00:15:15,490 → 00:15:18,759

Stefania Nicotra: or drawing helps young people to open up.

00:15:18,760 → 00:15:20,349

Stefania Nicotra: So there's not so much pressure when

00:15:20,350 → 00:15:22,929

Stefania Nicotra: you're making eye contact with an adult.

00:15:22,930 → 00:15:26,169

Stefania Nicotra: Older teenagers or older young people

00:15:26,170 → 00:15:29,349

Stefania Nicotra: will often want to deal with situations

00:15:29,350 → 00:15:32,139

Stefania Nicotra: on their own and not want to feel helpless

00:15:32,140 → 00:15:33,849

Stefania Nicotra: or out of control.

00:15:33,850 → 00:15:37,089

Stefania Nicotra: So sometimes taking a step

00:15:37,090 → 00:15:39,669

Stefania Nicotra: back and asking them, "What would you like

00:15:39,670 → 00:15:41,439

Stefania Nicotra: to happen and what do you want to do with

00:15:41,440 → 00:15:44,529

Stefania Nicotra: this? "before you give your advice

00:15:44,530 → 00:15:46,929

Stefania Nicotra: and input and jump straight in.

00:15:46,930 → 00:15:50,049

Stefania Nicotra: I think we are sometimes quite quick to

00:15:51,370 → 00:15:54,159

Stefania Nicotra: react to a situation and I think we need

00:15:54,160 → 00:15:57,159

Stefania Nicotra: to just slow down and respond in a way

00:15:57,160 → 00:16:00,249

Stefania Nicotra: that allows a young person to tell

00:16:00,250 → 00:16:02,169

Stefania Nicotra: you what's going on for them in their own

00:16:02,170 → 00:16:03,429

Stefania Nicotra: time.

00:16:03,430 → 00:16:05,090

Sharon Cole: We don't want to just frighten a young person,

00:16:05,091 → 00:16:06,759

Sharon Cole: we want them to do it at their pace,

00:16:06,760 → 00:16:10,899

Sharon Cole: definitely. And so I think that is definitely

00:16:10,900 → 00:16:13,339

Sharon Cole: right, what Stef was saying. I think also

00:16:14,710 → 00:16:17,679

Sharon Cole: if they don't like talking, you know, if they

00:16:17,680 → 00:16:19,629

Sharon Cole: find it difficult to talk about what's going on

00:16:19,630 → 00:16:21,940

Sharon Cole: with them, they may find it easier

00:16:23,020 → 00:16:24,127

Sharon Cole: to do via Childline or via

00:16:27,670 → 00:16:30,729

Sharon Cole: Shout crisis text line or other agencies

00:16:30,730 → 00:16:33,909

Sharon Cole: -- Young Minds. They might find

00:16:33,910 → 00:16:37,310

Sharon Cole: that talking or texting is

00:16:37,311 → 00:16:40,479

Sharon Cole: easier. And so there's different modes

00:16:40,480 → 00:16:42,819

Sharon Cole: and methods that they can talk about their

00:16:42,820 → 00:16:44,889

Sharon Cole: worries. I think that's really important

00:16:44,890 → 00:16:47,349

Sharon Cole: because that can lead on to them feeling more

00:16:47,350 → 00:16:50,409

Sharon Cole: able to actually speak about what's going on

00:16:50,410 → 00:16:50,758

Sharon Cole: with them.

00:16:50,759 → 00:16:52,449

George Linfield (Producer): Thank you both.

00:16:52,450 → 00:16:53,889

George Linfield (Producer): We've spoken a lot now about

00:16:53,890 → 00:16:55,359

George Linfield (Producer): preventative measures around

00:16:55,360 → 00:16:57,069

George Linfield (Producer): mental health. Sharon, what

00:16:57,070 → 00:16:58,809

George Linfield (Producer): processes should schools have in

00:16:58,810 → 00:17:00,489

George Linfield (Producer): place to support children when

00:17:00,490 → 00:17:01,899

George Linfield (Producer): mental health is becoming more

00:17:01,900 → 00:17:02,799

George Linfield (Producer): of a safeguarding concern?

00:17:02,800 → 00:17:06,098

Sharon Cole: I think initially there is

00:17:06,099 → 00:17:09,129

Sharon Cole: making sure firstly that

00:17:09,130 → 00:17:12,219

Sharon Cole: your school is very aware of

00:17:12,220 → 00:17:14,439

Sharon Cole: mental health. So as talked about earlier,

00:17:14,440 → 00:17:17,559

Sharon Cole: about the culture, but also that senior

00:17:17,560 → 00:17:19,539

Sharon Cole: leadership team have attended mental health

00:17:19,540 → 00:17:22,719

Sharon Cole: training, that staff have had mental health

00:17:22,720 → 00:17:24,729

Sharon Cole: awareness training. Also, it's really good to

00:17:24,730 → 00:17:26,182

Sharon Cole: do a mental health assessment of your school to

00:17:28,900 → 00:17:30,909

Sharon Cole: make sure that you are covering everything you

00:17:30,910 → 00:17:32,949

Sharon Cole: should be covering that would help young

00:17:32,950 → 00:17:36,039

Sharon Cole: people. It's really important that everyone

00:17:36,040 → 00:17:39,099

Sharon Cole: is following safeguarding policies and that

00:17:39,100 → 00:17:42,039

Sharon Cole: if there is a concern around a young person and

00:17:42,040 → 00:17:44,739

Sharon Cole: their wellbeing and safeguarding that we're

00:17:44,740 → 00:17:46,419

Sharon Cole: honest with them that we will be passing that

00:17:46,420 → 00:17:49,056

Sharon Cole: information on in order to help them with this.

00:17:49,057 → 00:17:52,119

Sharon Cole: Basically being

00:17:52,120 → 00:17:54,549

Sharon Cole: really clear and transparent with young people

00:17:54,550 → 00:17:56,859

Sharon Cole: that we have a concern, and we're concerned

00:17:56,860 → 00:17:58,719

Sharon Cole: about them, and that we do need to share

00:17:58,720 → 00:18:02,098

Sharon Cole: information and that school do actually,

00:18:05,550 → 00:18:07,289

Sharon Cole: you know, do the actions to keep that young

00:18:07,290 → 00:18:10,229

Sharon Cole: person safe. Whether that's a need to refer to

00:18:10,230 → 00:18:13,112

Sharon Cole: social care or whether it's a referral to

00:18:13,113 → 00:18:14,113

Sharon Cole: CAMHS.

00:18:14,460 → 00:18:16,439

Sharon Cole: And then there's the support mechanisms that

00:18:16,440 → 00:18:18,899

Sharon Cole: need to be in place whilst waiting for things

00:18:18,900 → 00:18:20,639

Sharon Cole: to happen if you've made a referral to another

00:18:20,640 → 00:18:20,857

Sharon Cole: agency.

00:18:20,858 → 00:18:23,309

George Linfield (Producer): What would those support

00:18:23,310 → 00:18:24,239

George Linfield (Producer): mechanisms look like?

00:18:24,240 → 00:18:27,329

Sharon Cole: Well, for instance, in schools that

00:18:27,330 → 00:18:28,756

Sharon Cole: we work in, if we-- if there's been a referral

00:18:28,757 → 00:18:31,769

Sharon Cole: to CAMHS, we would continue

00:18:31,770 → 00:18:34,499

Sharon Cole: to see that young person, meanwhile, as a

00:18:34,500 → 00:18:36,809

Sharon Cole: stopgap, whilst they're waiting. As you will be

00:18:36,810 → 00:18:40,019

Sharon Cole: aware, there's quite large

00:18:40,020 → 00:18:42,719

Sharon Cole: waiting lists for young people to get the

00:18:42,720 → 00:18:44,429

Sharon Cole: support that they need.

00:18:44,430 → 00:18:47,424

Sharon Cole: And I think there's also, maybe individualising

00:18:50,240 → 00:18:51,709

Sharon Cole: the day for a young person.

00:18:51,710 → 00:18:54,229

Sharon Cole: If there's certain things that, you know,

00:18:54,230 → 00:18:57,129

Sharon Cole: certain parts of day that trigger them.

00:18:57,130 → 00:19:00,349

Sharon Cole: And looking at all the systemic things

00:19:00,350 → 00:19:02,419

Sharon Cole: around them really, and what can we put in

00:19:02,420 → 00:19:05,779

Sharon Cole: place to make it easier for them and what

00:19:05,780 → 00:19:07,970

Sharon Cole: can we put in place to ensure their safety.

00:19:09,320 → 00:19:11,156

Sharon Cole: There could be a safety plan. A safety plan

00:19:11,157 → 00:19:13,737

Sharon Cole: could be put in place if you're talking about a

00:19:13,738 → 00:19:15,196

Sharon Cole: young person that's got suicidal ideation or

00:19:15,197 → 00:19:18,289

Sharon Cole: self-harm, which would

00:19:18,290 → 00:19:21,379

Sharon Cole: involve all different things about strategies

00:19:21,380 → 00:19:24,619

Sharon Cole: for them to use, things for their family

00:19:24,620 → 00:19:27,499

Sharon Cole: to do to help keep them safe and things for the

00:19:27,500 → 00:19:29,190

Sharon Cole: school to do to help keep them safe.

00:19:29,191 → 00:19:32,389

George Linfield (Producer): So taking a really

00:19:32,390 → 00:19:33,587

George Linfield (Producer): individualised, child-centred

00:19:34,400 → 00:19:36,073

George Linfield (Producer): approach in these instances?

00:19:36,074 → 00:19:38,174

Sharon Cole: Yes, that's what I would say.

00:19:38,175 → 00:19:40,159

George Linfield (Producer): We're coming to the end of our

00:19:40,160 → 00:19:41,839

George Linfield (Producer): discussion now. But before we

00:19:41,840 → 00:19:43,609

George Linfield (Producer): finish, I wanted to talk about

00:19:43,610 → 00:19:45,559

George Linfield (Producer): how school staff can build their

00:19:45,560 → 00:19:47,149

George Linfield (Producer): own knowledge and confidence in

00:19:47,150 → 00:19:48,439

George Linfield (Producer): responding to mental health

00:19:48,440 → 00:19:50,269

George Linfield (Producer): difficulties.

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George Linfield (Producer): At NSPCC Learning, we've

00:19:51,740 → 00:19:53,389

George Linfield (Producer): recently launched a new mental

00:19:53,390 → 00:19:55,009

George Linfield (Producer): health safeguarding and education

00:19:55,010 → 00:19:57,169

George Linfield (Producer): elearning course that uses video

00:19:57,170 → 00:19:58,669

George Linfield (Producer): scenarios and interactive

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George Linfield (Producer): quizzes to help professionals

00:19:59,990 → 00:20:02,239

George Linfield (Producer): learn more about the topic.

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George Linfield (Producer): What other information, tools,

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George Linfield (Producer): resources can education

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George Linfield (Producer): professionals use to improve

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George Linfield (Producer): their knowledge and understanding

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George Linfield (Producer): around providing mental health

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George Linfield (Producer): support?

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Sharon Cole: We supply lots of resources

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Sharon Cole: around mental health to schools at

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Sharon Cole: all times, but especially during Children's

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Sharon Cole: Mental Health Week, there's lots of activities

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Sharon Cole: and different things that are put on our site

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Sharon Cole: to help schools do particular lessons, or

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Sharon Cole: our staff working in schools to provide

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Sharon Cole: workshops. So that is going on all the time.

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Sharon Cole: We also provide mental health training

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Sharon Cole: for senior leadership teams and mental health

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Sharon Cole: champions training.

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Sharon Cole: These are going on all year round.

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Sharon Cole: Our real push is on trying to get the whole

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Sharon Cole: school community very mental health

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Sharon Cole: aware. And making it a much easier

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Sharon Cole: environment for young people to open up and

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Sharon Cole: talk about what is going on for them, whether

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Sharon Cole: that be something really high risk or whether

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Sharon Cole: that is, you know, just life in general.

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Sharon Cole: And I think it's really important that they

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Sharon Cole: have that opportunity to do that.

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Stefania Nicotra: The NSPCC has a wealth

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Stefania Nicotra: of information online.

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Stefania Nicotra: We have the NSPCC elearning courses.

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Stefania Nicotra: There are very specific courses,

00:21:22,190 → 00:21:25,309

Stefania Nicotra: things like managing safeguarding in

00:21:25,310 → 00:21:28,879

Stefania Nicotra: schools, in classrooms or in sport or

00:21:28,880 → 00:21:30,679

Stefania Nicotra: safeguarding young people with additional

00:21:30,680 → 00:21:33,319

Stefania Nicotra: needs, etcetera.

00:21:33,320 → 00:21:36,049

Stefania Nicotra: There's lots of information out there that

00:21:36,050 → 00:21:38,269

Stefania Nicotra: is easily accessible that professionals

00:21:38,270 → 00:21:41,509

Stefania Nicotra: can use, and young people have a website

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Stefania Nicotra: as well that they can access themselves.

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Stefania Nicotra: And often young people tell us that they,

00:21:47,210 → 00:21:50,179

Stefania Nicotra: you know, they access information online

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Stefania Nicotra: to help themselves.

00:21:51,710 → 00:21:53,629

Stefania Nicotra: And sometimes they don't want external

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Stefania Nicotra: input. They just want some more

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Stefania Nicotra: information on what abuse looks like;

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Stefania Nicotra: what it means to have a mental health

00:22:03,290 → 00:22:06,559

Stefania Nicotra: problem, helping them identify maybe

00:22:06,560 → 00:22:08,959

Stefania Nicotra: changes in their mood, changes in how

00:22:08,960 → 00:22:12,379

Stefania Nicotra: they're coping, changes in how they relate

00:22:12,380 → 00:22:15,409

Stefania Nicotra: and talk to people, how they socialise or

00:22:15,410 → 00:22:17,599

Stefania Nicotra: not socialise; anything and everything

00:22:17,600 → 00:22:20,239

Stefania Nicotra: that could help them make sense of the

00:22:20,240 → 00:22:22,849

Stefania Nicotra: world and how it's changing around them

00:22:22,850 → 00:22:25,849

Stefania Nicotra: and whether they need some extra help with

00:22:25,850 → 00:22:29,809

Stefania Nicotra: that is available also online,

00:22:29,810 → 00:22:32,419

Stefania Nicotra: as well as of talking directly to a

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Stefania Nicotra: Childline counsellor.

00:22:33,800 → 00:22:35,730

Stefania Nicotra: Yeah, there's lots of information there.

00:22:37,980 → 00:22:39,599

George Linfield (Producer): And those resources for young

00:22:39,600 → 00:22:41,099

George Linfield (Producer): people that Stef's been talking

00:22:41,100 → 00:22:42,839

George Linfield (Producer): about that are all available on

00:22:42,840 → 00:22:44,969

George Linfield (Producer): the Childline website.

00:22:44,970 → 00:22:46,409

George Linfield (Producer): We will also include links to all

00:22:46,410 → 00:22:48,479

George Linfield (Producer): the tools and resources mentioned

00:22:48,480 → 00:22:49,859

George Linfield (Producer): in our discussion today,

00:22:49,860 → 00:22:51,719

George Linfield (Producer): including the NSPCC Learning

00:22:51,720 → 00:22:53,219

George Linfield (Producer): Mental Health and Safeguarding

00:22:53,220 → 00:22:55,499

George Linfield (Producer): in Education elearning course in

00:22:55,500 → 00:22:57,119

George Linfield (Producer): the podcast shownotes.

00:22:57,120 → 00:22:58,589

George Linfield (Producer): But that's all we've got time for,

00:22:58,590 → 00:23:00,239

George Linfield (Producer): for today's discussion.

00:23:00,240 → 00:23:01,529

George Linfield (Producer): We've covered a lot of ground.

00:23:01,530 → 00:23:03,299

George Linfield (Producer): We've outlined why it's so

00:23:03,300 → 00:23:04,829

George Linfield (Producer): important for schools to look

00:23:04,830 → 00:23:06,539

George Linfield (Producer): after students mental health.

00:23:06,540 → 00:23:08,369

George Linfield (Producer): We've looked at how to foster a

00:23:08,370 → 00:23:10,169

George Linfield (Producer): positive and supportive mental

00:23:10,170 → 00:23:11,819

George Linfield (Producer): health culture in school that

00:23:11,820 → 00:23:13,739

George Linfield (Producer): removes stigma and helps young

00:23:13,740 → 00:23:15,059

George Linfield (Producer): people to speak out when they

00:23:15,060 → 00:23:16,379

George Linfield (Producer): need support.

00:23:16,380 → 00:23:17,849

George Linfield (Producer): And we've also talked about how

00:23:17,850 → 00:23:19,349

George Linfield (Producer): to recognise when a mental

00:23:19,350 → 00:23:21,179

George Linfield (Producer): health concern is escalating

00:23:21,180 → 00:23:23,429

George Linfield (Producer): into a safeguarding concern, and

00:23:23,430 → 00:23:24,809

George Linfield (Producer): what needs to happen in those

00:23:24,810 → 00:23:26,279

George Linfield (Producer): instances. Thank you to my

00:23:26,280 → 00:23:28,019

George Linfield (Producer): guests, Sharon Cole from

00:23:28,020 → 00:23:30,209

George Linfield (Producer): Place2Be and Stefania Nicotra

00:23:30,210 → 00:23:32,009

George Linfield (Producer): from Childline for sharing their

00:23:32,010 → 00:23:33,929

George Linfield (Producer): insight and expertise.

00:23:33,930 → 00:23:35,219

George Linfield (Producer): If you want to learn more about

00:23:35,220 → 00:23:36,629

George Linfield (Producer): children's mental health, you

00:23:36,630 → 00:23:38,309

George Linfield (Producer): can find dedicated information

00:23:38,310 → 00:23:40,199

George Linfield (Producer): pages on the NSPCC Learning

00:23:40,200 → 00:23:41,200

George Linfield (Producer): website.

00:23:45,030 → 00:23:48,689

Outro: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning Podcast.

00:23:48,690 → 00:23:51,719

Outro: At the time of recording this episode, content wasn't

00:23:51,720 → 00:23:54,209

Outro: today, but the world of safeguarding and child

00:23:54,210 → 00:23:56,309

Outro: protection is ever changing.

00:23:56,310 → 00:23:58,379

Outro: So if you're looking for the most current

00:23:58,380 → 00:24:01,079

Outro: safeguarding and child protection, training,

00:24:01,080 → 00:24:04,079

Outro: information or resources, please visit

00:24:04,080 → 00:24:06,209

Outro: our website for professionals at

00:24:06,210 → 00:24:07,210

Outro: nspcc.org.uk/learning.

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