Erin Hynes: Many months ago, I was in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

I was there for 10 days, staying in a small apartment all by myself,

working remotely during the day and exploring the city in the evenings.

While I was there, I shared a tweet from nomadic Matt in my

Instagram stories, the tweet read.

I'm a big believer in the idea that we shouldn't work our lives

away and that we should take short breaks to pursue our passions.

Why should I spend my best years in an office saving money

for an age I may not ever see.

Or if I do, might be too sick to enjoy.

This tweet really resonated with me, particularly in that moment because I

had agonized over whether or not I should spend the money to go to Puerto Vallarta.

Finding the right balance between travel and life can be

hard, especially as I get older.

I feel more and more pressure to follow the traditional life path,

which let's be honest, doesn't include tons of world travel.

So today I'm chatting with my friend and fellow podcaster, Amanda Kendall.

We're having an honest discussion about how we've made travel fit

into our lives while balancing work, finances, family, and other commitments.

If you've listened to Alpaca My Bags before, you'll know

I'm a huge fan of Amanda.

She writes and podcasts about travel in a way that is both fun and meaningful.

You can find her work on her blog, not a ballerina, and by listening to her

podcast, the Thoughtful Travel Podcast.

Kattie Laur: Okay.

If this is the first time you've listened, Into alpaca my bags.

You've got an entire season to go through.

But if this is the first time, please make sure that you've hit the follow

button right now on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

Erin Hynes: If you wanna get in touch with us, you can find us

on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter.

We're at Alpaca My Bags pod.

You can

Kattie Laur: also DM us or even email us anytime.

All of our contact info is in the show notes.

Erin Hynes: Okay.

Well I'm really happy to be chatting with you cuz you're my

favorite guest always on this show.

Well

Amanda Kendle: that sounds fair cuz you're my favorite podcast, so.

Oh, ditto.

It's a good lovefest here

Erin Hynes: it is.

I love it.

So, Amanda, many months ago I was in Porto Vita, Mexico, and while

I was there I shared a tweet from nomadic Matt in our Instagram stories.

And I shared this because I'm not even a big Twitter person, both of you know

this, but I shared this tweet because I.

I really related to it and it's, this is a discussion I've had, like

even with my friends here in Toronto, like a lot of us had said, why can't

we just like every once in a while, take two to three months off of work

and like work on something else?

Why is this so frowned upon?

And so when I shared the tweet, I wrote a caption.

With the tweet saying that I sometimes feel a little insecure, that I'm quote

unquote behind my partner and I still live in our small rented apartments.

We can't afford property in the city that we love.

And sometimes we wonder if spending our twenties, essentially traveling

like most of the time and delaying our careers, was a mistake.

So I bring this up because you sent me a reply to that Instagram

story and it was really reassuring.

It made me feel so much better.

So I was hoping you could start by basically just resharing that reply.

Amanda Kendle: So I said something like, don't worry, because I spent

most of my twenties traveling abroad and living abroad.

In fact, I left Perth when I was 25.

I left a good job.

I left a job that I had.

It was a promotion I'd had for about a year, and I'd expected to get

to that when I was in my forties.

So I kind of thought, oh, you know, I've quote unquote made it.

Now, you know, life is fine now, but it didn't.

I.

Actually feel like that at all.

And I thought, well, what do I do now?

If this was the job I was gonna have in my forties and I'm 24, 25, now what do I do?

Do I just sit around and keep doing that for 15 years?

That sounded miserable.

And yeah, long story short, I left in my mid twenties and spent nearly six years.

Traveling and living abroad.

So I worked part of that time and you know, full disclosure, when I was

working in Japan, I was able to save some money and send some money home.

But after that, in Europe I didn't have the salary that enabled me to do that.

I spent everything plus some of my savings on traveling.

And I absolutely do not regret a second of that.

There's no way I would go back, uh, and change any part of that, except maybe

leaving earlier and traveling longer.

You know, that's probably the only thing I would change.

And now I'm in, so I'm in my mid forties.

Definitely some of my friends who didn't do things like that, they have fancier

cars and they have bigger houses, but I wouldn't swap any of that either.

I have all of these amazing experiences and memories.

In fact, in my, like my group of close friends, say from high

school, most of us did this.

Most of us spent a lot of our twenties traveling, uh, or living overseas.

And the ones who don't have definitely expressed some regret.

And like I have a smaller home.

I don't care.

It's certainly big enough on a cleaning day it feels like it's much too big.

And I think what do these people do with all these extra rooms, you

know, that're having to take care of.

And that, honestly, I don't know.

I think what really drives us home for me is last year I lost a

really dear friend, um, to cancer.

She was only 38 and I know that she wanted to travel more.

And her big motto was live fearlessly.

So I think of this constantly, and yes, absolutely, I feel reassured I

have done what for me was the right thing, and I don't feel behind.

I feel in front.

Obviously I didn't put all of that in a tweet, but that's my

quote unquote short summary.

Erin Hynes: Yeah, and it's interesting you bring up your friend

who passed away because I, I think we also talked about this, but I

also lost a really close friend.

I was in my mid twenties, I think he was 32 when he passed away.

And it was very sudden.

And similarly, like one of the reasons we were such good friends was

because he also was a big traveler and like was willing to quit his

job at any moment to go and travel.

And this is something that we really connected on.

And when he passed away, it was very jarring for me.

To realize that like even in your thirties, like nothing is guaranteed.

I don't know cuz I, I said I felt behind, but I guess like

I kind of flip flop on it.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes I feel behind and other times I think I have done so many cool things

that I'm really proud of with that time.

It is

Amanda Kendle: important to think about though.

So I actually, it must have been when we were about to record this and I

mentioned it on Instagram or something and a travel journo friend of mine who

has moved and lived away from Australia a lot and she messaged me and she

said, um, I don't wanna be a poor 70 year old travel writer eating beans.

Nothing cool about that.

So, you know, you can't not think about it.

So, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And especially like, sadly, especially women, a lot of them, if they don't end

up with someone else to support them as well, then that can be a really, you

know, Beans eating situations, so, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I also had another thought.

Sorry, I've got lots of, lots of thoughts, but I think, you know, so I'm now, you

know, quite successful in my career.

I can pay my mortgage well, it's all fine.

I think a lot of that actually arose from my travels and it gave me so many skills

and contacts and all kinds of things that have actually made my career way better.

Erin Hynes: Yeah, you know, I've talked about this, actually, I've

talked about it on TikTok because a lot of my audience there is like

younger, so I'm like the older person giving advice to like 22 year olds.

And I actually said that to someone recently that like actually before

I traveled a lot, I was very shy and going and traveling by myself kind of

forced me outta my comfort zone and made me much more personable I think.

Like, and when we came back from like our long, long trip, Luke and I, I think it

helped me a lot like kickstart my career because I got a job quite fast and I

like interviewed well, and I think it was because I was very comfortable talking

to people I didn't know because I'd been doing it for almost a year straight.

Amanda Kendle: A hundred percent.

So I'm, you know, perceived as being quite outgoing and quite a social person.

And I think I am now, but I absolutely was not.

I was really, really shy, um, in my early twenties and not good at chatting with

people, but traveling and especially cuz I worked as a, as an e ESL teacher

and I had to make conversation with.

All kinds of people all the time.

Like that was my job.

It really forced me to change.

And, and of course traveling, being, you know, taking lots of risks

and, uh, figuring out that, you know, life always kind of works out

things, you know, you dunno where you're going, but you find a way.

And all of those kind of lessons that you learn through travel like that absolutely

changed my personality fundamentally.

You know, that skill of getting along with people is one of the reasons that

I'm, you know, successful in my career.

It's, you know, I lead workshops, I work as a uni lecturer, all

sorts of things that require me to be very people-friendly.

Mm-hmm.

And it's, you know, it's definitely served me extremely well.

And I would not have changed that way by staying home.

Erin Hynes: Okay, so before we dive further into this, I thought it was

important that we acknowledge that you and I both have various privileges that are

going to shape the way we talk about this.

We're gonna be talking a little bit about money, about spending money

and time on leisure activities like travel, which is a major privilege.

And of course, discussing financial stuff like home ownership and

retirement funds is a major privilege too, because many people don't

ever see that in their lifetime.

So having said this, I think that wondering if travel make you fall behind

in life is something that a lot of people in the travel community struggle with.

I have talked about it with Luke pretty often.

I've also talked about this with you and other friends I

have in the travel community.

But I'm curious, is this something you've also found yourself talking

about with other travelers?

I.

Amanda Kendle: I think my age group perhaps don't talk

about it as much as we should.

And perhaps it's also like an element of, I don't know if it's shame or worry

or anxiety or something that, because we are, you know, my age group in our forties

or fifties, we should be established and we should have everything sorted

out by now, you know, quote unquote should, uh, I think people don't talk

about it as much as would be useful.

And back when I was traveling a lot.

Nobody talked about it at all.

So, wow.

The only discussions I had back then were people telling me not to go.

Uh, I can still remember the people who told me not to go.

I kind of still have a negative association with those

people cuz they were wrong.

But, um, but at the same time, like I appreciate, you

know, where that came from.

You know, their concerns about, Not being financially stable or, I get that.

I do know a lot of people who are very, I know it's a privileged thing

to say, but over concerned about, about being secure and having, having

paid off their mortgage by a certain age and those sorts of things.

And yeah, it's important to have some degree of financial, auto autonomy,

et cetera, but life is also for having these amazing experiences when you can.

Yeah,

Erin Hynes: I have heard like through extended family too many times now,

situations where people live their life that way, where the focus was always,

let's get the mortgage paid, let's.

Reach all these financial goals and then people make it to their sixties and

then have a health issue or pass away.

And I find that so sad cuz it's like you worked so hard and never got to actually

enjoy what you worked so hard to achieve.

Which is why I also like, I do think it's important to like think

about your finances and think about like your future security, but in

balance with enjoying your life.

While you're actually living it.

But I wanna go back to what you said about someone telling you not

to go, because I'm also very salty about people saying this to me.

Cuz when I graduated grad school, I told everyone, I was like,

I'm not working, I'm traveling.

And I worked as a server for several months and just like banked as much

money as I possibly could and then left for almost a year to travel.

People straight up said to me that I would not get a job, that it would be

too hard to get a job because there was a gap between when I ended school

and when I started searching for a job.

And I, this is another thing I've told the young folks on

TikTok, my career is totally fine.

Yes, everything has been totally fine.

It was a rough start, but it's a rough start for everyone and everything

has worked out totally fine.

I'm like, actually I'm at the same stage like in my career as many people that

I know who are the same age as me, who have been working now longer than me.

And so it's kind of interesting to see like how that happens.

I think it's just like the majority of people don't do this, take that gap.

And so it's like people.

I don't know.

See it as a red flag maybe.

Amanda Kendle: And I think if I was interviewing for a

job, so I'm self-employed.

I haven't interviewed for a job job in decades.

But if I was going to be interviewed, if someone disapproved of me and

didn't wanna hire me because I had a gap of a few years, and I

explained that I was traveling, I.

And they didn't see the value in that.

I don't wanna work for them, so, exactly.

I think the right employer who can understand the value that travel's brought

to you, brought to your life and your skills, well, they're gonna understand.

And if they don't, that's not my company.

So,

Erin Hynes: And they'll celebrate it.

And actually the first job that I got when I came back from Asia, I later

found out the manager who hired me told me she thought that I was a risk taker.

And she thought that that was interesting and that's why she hired me.

There you

Amanda Kendle: go.

Perfect example.

Erin Hynes: So you've shared a few of the basics about it, but I

was hoping you could share a bit more about your trajectory in life

so far, how it has departed from the norm, and maybe how you've.

Swayed back to the norm in some ways, or like found a balance between those things.

Give us your story.

Amanda Kendle: So I studied mathematics, which is a weird

thing to end up where I am.

But I went straight into maths education and so I had a good job in the university

sector here from, I was like 19 or so, and I kind of rose through the

ranks until I was 25, as I mentioned.

I was like, okay, now I've gotta go.

So from there I moved to Japan to teach English.

That was super common at the time, like super, super common.

Like that was my first step, and I think I was able to do that because I knew I'd

also be earning reasonably well there.

That kind of felt a bit easier to leave a job job and do that anyway from then.

Then I realized that none of that really mattered, and so I spent a

couple years in teaching in Japan and I moved on to a year in Pradas lava

in Slovakia and from there to Germany.

So I'd always studied German through school, and so that seemed like

the ultimate thing to go somewhere where I had already learned.

Some of the language cuz I was trying to learn languages along

the way and it's really hard.

Not enough time and not enough exposure when you're teaching English cuz

you've gotta speak English all day.

So I spent a few years in Germany, um, before kind of reluctantly

coming back to Australia.

I always wanted to come back here when I wanted to have

kids, cuz I think Australia's a great place to raise a family.

You know, my parents are here and of course were, you

know, starting to get older.

But my career from there was, I.

Nothing like I'd expected and nothing like what I'd expected or what even

existed when I was in high school.

So, uh, while I was away, I'd started writing for magazines and

I'd started blogging and I then managed to pick up work, like running

workshops about how to be a blogger.

And that turned into working with businesses to help them

with social media and blogging.

And that's turned into all kinds of things.

Like I have a, I guess a portfolio career now.

I work in, um, lots of different organizations.

Like I run workshops for businesses in tourism and they send me

all around Western Australia to, to run those workshops.

And I've obviously, you know, I still run a podcast and a blog and,

um, do lots of different teaching and lots of really fun things.

Like my, my working week is very varied and.

Absolutely divine.

I love all of the stuff I do.

So, so in a sense, I have come back to, you know, and I have a mortgage

and all the very grown and a son and all the very grown up stuff.

I don't feel very grown up at all.

But from the surface, perhaps I might look it.

So yeah, that's, that's my trajectory.

I

Erin Hynes: don't feel grown up either, but people tell me I am.

Me

Amanda Kendle: neither.

I feel like I am a 17 year old who owns a home and has a dog somehow.

Yeah.

It doesn't feel like it should be legal, but we're making it happen.

Try that feeling.

But you actually have a kid, like I have an actual human I'm

supposed to be responsible for.

Yeah.

And somehow he's even got to high school and he's still alive.

It's like, how on earth did I manage this?

It's insane.

And he is kind of nice.

So yeah, it's crazy.

I'm so proud of you, Amanda.

So proud of Thank you.

Thank you.

Erin Hynes: And what kind of balance do you think you've

struck between travel and life?

Like how has travel remained part of your life throughout this trajectory?

Amanda Kendle: Oh, that's such a good question.

So it's changed lately, but for the first sort of decade or so that I

was back here and I had a son, had my, I still have a son, but when he

was primary elementary school age, I managed to still travel heaps.

So I would take him out of school.

Without hesitation.

He's a smart kid.

Doesn't seem to matter if he misses school.

I'm sure he learns way more when we travel.

So we did travel quite a few times a year.

Uh, of course, unfortunately then pandemic and in Western Australia we're

particularly locked in for a long time.

So over the last couple of years we haven't done as much.

Uh, and now he's in high school.

And so this is a slightly frustrating phase where I don't think we'll

have quite the right balance.

Having said that, he's now old enough for me to travel more without him.

And he'll, I mean, he doesn't say home alone, it's fine.

But, um, I mean, you know, he doesn't spend a week at home all,

all alone, but he's more independent and so I can travel and he can get

himself to and from school and stuff.

So, uh, but the funny thing is now the balance is shifting to him.

So it used to be me.

I would always ask him, where should we go?

But really I was controlling things, but so now he's, he's in the state

indoor soccer team, and so our January trip is based around the national

tournament, and then next year he's off to the UK for a soccer trip.

Without me.

Wow.

And, and I'm like, and so that's where, you know, a lot of my travel money's

going next year is sending him away.

And so it's a really weird balance and I suspect there'll be more

soccer trips in his future.

Uh, and I'm like, how do I manage to also get me traveling?

Well, he's off seeing the world, but at the same time, I'm super

excited that like he's happy.

He'll be, you know, a 13 year old.

He's happy to go to the uk.

Without me, which is terrifying, but I'm like, wow, I feel like I've

done something right to bring up a kid who's happy to do that trip.

And I know it'll be life changing for him.

And you know, that's all that I ask is that, that I can pass

on that love of travel and the benefits that travel brings.

So, and then my, my like long term plan, you know, in five or six years he'll be

finished high school, he'll be probably studying abroad somewhere and then I hope.

That the balance will swing back considerably and cuz a lot of

the work I do, I can do online.

So I actually really do think that then I'll spend, you know, months at

a time elsewhere, um, moving back and forth, you know, between Australia

and big chunks of time in some of the wonderful places that I want to be.

You know, life has these kind of phases and that's the phase, I mean, but I,

I know that that phase will go very quickly and then I'll be able to, um,

explore the world a little bit more.

So, you know, although I have a little bit of regret that I can't do it more

right now, you know, it's a matter of priorities and, you know, a high

school kid needs to be in school most of the time, and that's okay.

I can live with that.

So, yeah,

Erin Hynes: it's funny, I guess like I haven't seen that much.

Changed throughout my life so far, like in the way that I travel.

I think like the biggest change is that I used to have jobs that I

could easily quit and go back to.

I was never really tied down by my work for most of my twenties,

and that was totally by design.

I spent like most of my twenties working in restaurants as a

server, and in Canada you can make.

Quite good money as a server, especially like in cities like Toronto.

And so I would just flip flop.

I would work for six months, bank as much money as I could, and then travel

for a couple months and then rinse and repeat over and over for years on end.

Sounds perfect.

It was great.

It really was.

But then when I finished school, it was like, well, I've worked so hard on

these two degrees, I should really try to make a go of it and put them to use.

And so that's what I did, but that also meant committing

to the good old nine to five.

But luckily, like I work in a sector that they're quite generous with vacation time,

so I'm still able to travel quite a lot.

I would say it's hard with the pandemic, right?

Cause that changed everything.

But like that's right.

This year I did like two international trips and one.

Digital nomad stint.

So that's like three trips.

That's pretty good, I think, for someone who works full-time.

And I think the

Amanda Kendle: pandemic, although it stopped us for a while, I think

it's opened up this digital nomad kind of style trip a lot more.

Uh, I was chatting with someone the other day who works for

a, you know, normal company.

And, uh, had had to go to Egypt for a conference and they had then allowed

her, she's originally, she's living in Australia but originally from Germany.

They had allowed her to go on from Egypt to Germany and spend two months based

working there, staying with family, and you know, having a German Christmas

and all of that stuff, um, while she's working because she can do it remotely

and that kind of thing, definitely would not have happened pre pandemic.

So, no, I think that's great.

That's kind of exciting cuz it opens up, you know, much more of this.

Ability to balance some travel and working life.

Erin, you mentioned your two degrees.

Do you regret getting one extra degree at this point?

Uh, or do you use both of them every day and what are they?

I

Erin Hynes: guess I haven't talked about them.

So my first degree was English literature.

It was combined English literature and film study, and then I went on

to do a master's in cinema studies.

And media.

So I would actually say they factor quite a lot into what I do,

like across everything that I do.

I don't regret either of my degrees at all, but I was one of those weird

people who really loved school, but

Amanda Kendle: me too.

I

Erin Hynes: get it.

Yeah.

I really wanted to be a professor.

The problem is, It's very hard to get work as a professor, especially

in media studies in this country.

And so it was like, ooh, probably a bad idea to take that path.

But yeah, I think it factors into, honestly, like most of the work that

I do from my personal projects like this podcast is a form of media.

The blogging that I do, like the social media that I do.

I'm a writer in my day job and I do content strategy, and all of

that relates back to literature and telling stories essentially.

My grad school years, aside from the years that I've spent traveling,

I tell people this all the time.

Were the best two years of my life because I got to spend two years straight

hanging out with eight other people who were as obsessed with film as I was.

And it was beautiful.

And some of my best friends today are from that program,

so, Honestly, it was beautiful.

I would never take that back.

You've also traveled with them too, haven't you?

Oh yeah.

I roped a lot of those grad school people into traveling with me.

Just close up that thought.

I will caveat this to say, I was a big school nerd.

I don't think everyone is, and not everyone needs to be, cuz I really

don't think that school is for everyone.

I think it's really a problem that like the way our education system works is

so catered towards one type of brain.

It's, it's a huge problem.

And I just lucked out that that worked for me and was very

inspiring and motivational for me.

But I think a lot of people, it's not, and it's not the right path.

So.

I just thought I would say that cuz I think it's important to remember

when talking about education.

Katie, did you know that some destinations require proof that you have travel

insurance even for a brief trip?

Yes.

This is

Amanda Kendle: why travel insurance is one of the most important

things to pack whenever you travel.

Erin Hynes: Absolutely.

Travel insurance is something you should be investing in

regardless of if it's required.

That's why I always get World Nomads travel insurance, whether you're staying

in a country for a few days or a few months, it's important to remember that

some countries medical systems are fragile and have limited services and capability.

Having insurance like World Nomads helps ensure that you don't become a

burden on the local people and economy if you end up needing medical help.

World Nomads has simple and flexible benefits that include trip

cancellation, emergency medical expense, baggage cover, and more.

Buy cover for your trip anytime, anywhere, while at home or already on the road.

Benefits, limits, conditions and exclusions apply.

Be sure to read your policy wording, learn more and get a quote@worldnomads.com.

The link is in our show notes.

Another thing I wanted to bring up is that I can't help but feel like there's

this inherent guilt that people feel.

Um, I've definitely felt it when we aren't following the life path that we've

been told either by family, friends, or just like society, um, to follow.

So that's like going to school, starting a career, partnering up.

Leveling up that career, buying a house, paying for a wedding, working on the

house, having kids saving for retirement.

We all know how it goes.

I personally feel like a lot of this guilt is rooted in the concept of work.

I feel like we all really internalize like this capitalist ideology, and it

makes us feel like if we aren't achieving those milestones at the right time,

that we aren't working hard enough.

I'm curious if this resonates

Amanda Kendle: with you.

Yes, I have.

People have tried to make me think that and to feel that kind of guilt,

and I don't know really why, if it's just, um, my rebellious nature or

you know, also luck and privilege.

I just don't care enough what other people think.

That's part of it.

But also, so

I can't get any clearer than that.

No.

But, um, but also, so my, my, my dear dad, bless him, he worked for the same

bank for 44 years until he retired and in fact longer, cuz he then kept going back

to do, you know, little short contracts.

So 44 years with the same bank.

He had an interesting career, like they did, you know, he had various

roles and they even sent him to work in Papua New Guinea for a couple

of years and things like that.

But still, I just, that gave me like, I couldn't imagine working

somewhere for 44 plus years.

It just gave me a natural kind of aversion to traditional employment, I think.

And at the same time, my mom was self-employed, so she was a real

estate agent and worked from home so, And she was one of the first

women in Western Australia to have her, to get her real estate license.

And so she was quite inspirational in that sense, in being non-traditional.

So, uh, when she had kids, we would just go with her wherever she went.

We saw the inside of most of the houses in Perth when we were little kids.

We just followed her around and, you know, that's, you know, and I'm

sure there must have been people who really pushed back against her

doing that, but I don't remember it.

And you know, she just wanted to do her thing.

So all of those experiences were enough to kind of, yeah, dissuade me from

having that kind of feeling of guilt.

And the other thing was just recently I went to my, my school reunion.

So my 30th school reunion, which is horrifying.

When I told my son who's like, is it 30 years since you started school?

Like, this is high school?

And I was like, no, it's 30 years since I finished high school.

So, which makes me feel very, very old.

But anyway, it was very interesting.

So I went to, I think the 10th, the 20th and the 30th.

And so the 10th one, everyone was still very trying to one up

each other and kind of show off.

And then at the 20th, everyone had kind of had something bad happen to them.

And so, you know, like everyone was a bit more friendly.

But then at this one it was much more about like, no, I didn't

talk to anyone about their current like work or career stuff.

It was just sort of about how you were feeling kind of.

And a lot of people came up to me who I didn't really know, but they probably

are, you know, may were probably connected on Facebook or whatever and they have

followed some of the work I do or whatever, but they would come up to me

and say like, it happened multiple times.

Oh, I love your adventurous spirit.

Like in a positive way, not like in a, you are crazy, but

they actually really kind of.

Expressed sort of admiration.

Sounds silly to say, but admiration for my adventurousness, and I don't

think I'm adventurous, but I guess this kind of non-traditional work

trajectory means that I have been, yeah.

What they think of as adventurous, and I thought, well that's good.

I'm doing something right.

Then

Erin Hynes: I think about this a lot because I'm especially at an age now

where like your job is just so, a lot of people I know don't have kids yet, so

it's like your identity is your job and.

I think it frustrates me because I.

I'm a bit of a workaholic.

I do work hard.

I enjoy working, but I also really like not working.

I love not working, and I have told people the best feeling in the world

is to just like not have a job for a couple months and wake up every day and

not know what you're gonna do that day.

And I've experienced that a few times now because of these

like long trips that I've done.

And when I would go home and work again, people would be like, Really

surprised by how hard I would hustle.

I would work like 60 to 80 hour weeks just to save as much money as I possibly

could because it was worth it to me to experience that feeling of just like going

several months without having a single responsibility other than like figuring

out what I would eat and like where I would go in the next few days or weeks.

And I just think that's something that so many people, especially in like.

Western capitalism.

Don't ever experience that sort of freedom to just literally do nothing and to

Amanda Kendle: be spontaneous and to be such so in control

of your time completely.

I think that's, it's like they're so tied up in their

work being their identity that.

There's nothing left otherwise.

So if you don't have that, what's it all about?

So, but I mean, I'm the same.

I'm a workaholic and I love working and I love the work I do, but there

needs to be this balance doesn't there.

You always hear, you know about the people who, you know, drop dead

from a heart attack in the middle of a stressful meeting at work.

And that's all I've ever done and it's been everything.

And I don't wanna

Erin Hynes: be like that.

And I find it a struggle now because, and I like have such a privilege with how

much time off I have through my job, but even still, I'm like, that's not enough.

Six weeks a year to do with myself what I want to do.

It just.

It doesn't feel right to me.

Amanda Kendle: No, exactly.

Capitalism was supposed to save us and, um, you know, modernize the factories.

Were gonna let us only work, you know, 10 or 12 hours a week and we'd

have all this leisure time and Yeah.

And people just filled it up with more and more and more and more work.

And if they're not working, working there, like working at their house to make sure

their garden looks as good as their next door neighbors and blah, blah, blah.

It's just, I don't know.

Erin Hynes: As much as I am grateful for all the travel that Luke and I are able

to do despite having full-time jobs, um, like I think we've struck a really

good balance of, of getting in travel that keeps us like happy and fulfilled

while also working on our careers.

It's like I still chase that feeling of a long trip because like we just spent

12 days in Belize and it was incredible.

We had the best time of our lives, but we.

We still were like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to just do this for

like three months straight?

Because you're still, you're sitting there on the beach thinking, oh,

I have work in like four days.

It's very tricky balance.

In a perfect world, I would say A, you can work your career job for.

Six months and then take like a sabbatical every other

Amanda Kendle: year.

I mean, if we ran the world, we would set it up this way, it would be fine.

Erin Hynes: And I've, I've actually read articles about

how like we do work too much.

The amount of like hours put towards work is not necessary for

the amount of output that we have.

And.

Interestingly, in the UK they just announced, I think something like a

hundred companies are switching over to a four day work week because they've

also realized this and also realized the benefits of a shorter work week for their

workforce because people are happier and when you're happier, You're better at

Amanda Kendle: your job, you're more productive and everything.

Absolutely.

When I was, uh, in my early twenties, so the early nineties, I did my

honors thesis on reduced working time.

No way.

Yeah.

Like, so there'd been, there's been talk about this stuff for decades.

The four day work week or, um, schemes like they have it in the teaching system

here where you can get paid at 80%.

All the time, but work four years and then have the fifth year

off and those kind of things.

So, wow.

Again, thanks to the pandemic, people are realizing that things

are, they don't ha, we don't have to follow the same old models.

So same here.

There's a lot of companies moving to a four day work week, which

is, I think very, very smart.

Erin Hynes: So an anxiety that I have is that I won't get to see

all of the world like I want to.

And I think I feel this because I struggle with like balancing

my love of travel, with my love of having a life and a routine at

home close to family and friends.

Cuz actually people do ask me this, especially on social media like, Why

aren't you a full-time digital nomad?

Cuz I actually could be because of my job.

The main reason is cuz my partner's job doesn't permit 'em to be.

But actually I don't know that I would like that.

I actually chatted with, um, a blogger, explore with Laura and we

actually ran into each other in Porto Vallarta and we were talking about

this because she is a full-time.

Digital nomad and I was telling her like, when I travel full time, I

don't even wanna work on my blog.

I just wanna do nothing.

I wanna not work.

It's that mixed with this balance of like, I do really love having my.

Life at home.

Like I really love Toronto.

I love the people I have here.

I love my cats.

I love that I'm close to my family.

I like my life here.

And so I just want both.

I don't wanna run away from it and travel like full-time for years on

end because I do like my life here.

And that's like a strange like thing to balance because like.

That means less time to see every country in the world,

Amanda Kendle: but really special times in your home base

and with family and friends.

And to your point about not seeing all the world, this has always bothered me too.

I'm gradually coming to terms with it, but um, I remember

when I was living in Japan, so.

Uh, we had a one year contract and then we renewed cuz we thought we

hadn't experienced it enough yet.

And at the end of that second year, the boyfriend that I was traveling

or living there with, between us, we had this theory that you need

two years to get to know a place.

You know, the first year everything's new and the second year you are familiar

and you know, you know this, how the seasons work and what events come up

and you feel a little bit like you've.

Scratch a bit below the surface.

And so we thought, okay, well anywhere else we go, we'll have to live two years.

And then you quickly do a bit of quick maths and you think, wow, even if I

live to a hundred, I don't have that many, lots of two years left compared

to all of the places in the world that I would really like to do this.

And so that was a bit of an eye opener.

But um, but yeah, also, There's a lot of places I like returning to as well.

I don't want to just see new places.

I love going back to places with, you know, good friends and to dive deeper.

So, so that's, um, tricky and I dunno how to solve that.

Just accept that we can't see everything and.

Love and embrace the things that we do, but I also feel the same

about not wanting to be a full-time.

So I was essentially a full-time traveler, although I was

working for those six years.

I love that I wouldn't swap any of that.

But now like looking ahead to, you know, you know, when my son's grown up.

It's just me.

I could do anything I want, but I don't think I want to move away and

be permanently full-time traveling.

I like having a base.

There's still work I'd like to do that involves being in Perth and who knows what

that'll look like in five or six years.

But I like the idea of having a few months away and then coming back for

a few months and having that kind of.

Balance of a base and the people who you know well and the new experiences.

So that's, yeah, I totally get what you're saying.

Yeah,

Erin Hynes: and like that's the thing too.

I do enjoy working.

I like, I like the both.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Amanda Kendle: That's right.

And there are different phases of life where you'll have more or less of one

or the other, but I think not losing touch with any of that, like trying

to have a balance even though that the, the kind of, the proportions of

that balance will change over time.

Erin Hynes: Yeah.

Our struggle now is like, are we going to have a kid.

It's like the constant discussion and we're so like flip flop on it because

we're just like, well, there's so much more traveling we want to do.

Amanda Kendle: I promise kids are good tra kids.

Kids who are brainwashed from an early age to be good travelers nearly

always turn out to be good travelers.

So yeah, we've talked about this.

It's more

Erin Hynes: like, it's more just.

Oh, it's more expensive once you bring a kid into the picture.

But I mean, there's always a way.

There's always a way.

And this brings me to my next sort of talking point.

One thing that I've definitely noticed as I get older is just that life.

Gets more complicated now that I'm in my thirties.

I know from real life experience that getting older, staying

healthy is not a guarantee, but also your responsibilities change.

I have way more responsibilities now than I did when I was in my twenties.

A major one that I realize like especially now, is my parents and

my partner's parents are getting older and that makes us think like

we don't wanna be far away like.

We don't wanna live abroad on the other side of the world because we

wanna be there for those years with our parents and things like that become

more obvious to you as you get older.

And I like, I have a niece now.

And I love her and I want to be there watching her grow up.

You know, you know how it is.

Like you just get older and like when I was in my twenties it was

literally like, oh, I'm gonna like go travel next month and quit my job.

And just like nothing matters.

It's now me in your twenties.

Yeah.

And that's, you can be very selfless as it should be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I, I'm really grateful for the travel that I did in my twenties just because,

Now that I have more, that I'm responsible for, it's more complicated to plan

these like bigger trips and traveling on a whim is a little bit harder.

Um, how have you found this?

Like evolves over time?

Amanda Kendle: Yeah, so absolutely.

I.

Concur.

I'm very, very grateful for those travels in my twenties cuz in times

now when I have the responsibilities that don't let me travel as much,

I really live off those memories.

Like I think about those times so much and you know, things obviously have changed,

you know, especially having a kid.

If it's a priority, it's possible that that doesn't change things

as much as we think it will.

So my son's first trip was when he was four months old, and I, you know, long

hauled to Europe to visit family and friends there and, and he's been traveling

ever since and absolutely loves it.

I found it really important to balance.

Potential regrets versus the Safeway.

So, you know, even when, like, even when I was newly divorced and you

know, financially nowhere near as stable as I am now, there was, you

know, certain opportunities where I was, you know, this is, uh, one

of my son's cousins was getting married in Thailand and it was okay.

There's no way we're gonna miss that.

You know, that only happens once.

We'll find the money for that.

And, you know, I was just more, more hyper aware of finding ways to deal with that.

And, and looking back now, gosh, I'm so glad I did.

It was 2019, so, you know, pre pandemic and we found the cheapest flights of all,

um, which not only went to Bangkok, but went on to Copenhagen, which is kind of

a, we became this weird combo of a trip where we went to Thailand and Denmark

and it was the most fabulous trip.

My son was nine or 10.

The two of us had just such a blast.

It was the best trip that I've been on, but it was, you know, we

managed to do it really cheaply.

We stayed in, you know, cheap Airbnbs.

I had a tiny rental car.

We had amazing.

Now looking at the flight prices, now we had amazingly cheap flights.

But, you know, there's a way, and I would've, so especially post pandemic

would've, so regretted not going.

Erin Hynes: I relate to that point too because like just now I'm planning to

travel to Europe in the winter in March.

Um, mainly because my parents are going on their first like

retirement trip and they're gonna spend several weeks in Portugal.

And so of course they said, will you come and visit us?

Will you come and work from Portugal?

Cuz we know you can.

And to be honest, I was like, mm, I can't really afford this.

But then I thought about it and I was like, you know what, like.

In 10 years, I'll probably hold those memories so close.

Probably for the rest of my life I will, that time I'll spend with

my parents in a little Airbnb in Portugal, and so I decide to do it and

I don't, I already don't regret it.

I'm a little stressed about the money, but it'll be

Amanda Kendle: fine.

Yeah, I think those sorts of things that the money feels.

Oh, like it feels awkward or, you know, feels scary at the time.

Um, but then years later you've completely forgotten about that aspect of it and you

know, you've worked it out financially.

I mean, yeah, you know, we speak from a position of privilege with careers and

stuff, but still, I'm always made sure I'm not endangering my financial situation.

But at the same time, recognizing that, you know, sometimes those

savings are there for those.

I don't wanna regret these situations.

Yeah.

Erin Hynes: It's funny too because in my twenties I fully endangered myself

with the way I was with like, I fully came back to the country with no money.

I.

I had the privilege of parents who would feed me and give me shelter.

But now I think about that and I'm like, wow, I, I could never now do that.

It would be

Amanda Kendle: too scary.

Exactly.

Different phases of life.

So, I mean, I have to confess, you know, my dad was a bank manager.

My mom, I.

Was, you know, in the finance sector too.

And so I really was always, I mean, I still am very conservative with savings

and you know, I've always managed to find a way to have both enough of a

financial buffer that I'm not freaking out at night and managed to do the.

Not regrets thing.

I mean, like my son going on this big trip next year, we went to the, the

information night about this, this soccer tour, and his words as we left,

he's like, oh, that's a big number.

After they'd explained the cost.

And I was like, Hmm.

And then he said, but I know, you know, you went on a trip about the

same age and you've always said that I, that you'd want me to as well.

And I'm like, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You know exactly all the things I'm thinking.

Yes, that's a big number, but you know, I know this will be an amazing

life-changing trip, so we will work it out and you know, I kind of expected

next year I'll work a little bit less.

I thought I could be able to pull back a little bit, but I've got, you

know, now I've got this big number that I need to take into account.

And so there's plenty of other work I'll be able to pick up and it'll work out.

Like I have no doubts.

It's fine.

It's fine.

And it'll be worth it.

It it'll be so absolutely worth

Erin Hynes: it.

Yeah.

I love what you said about.

How much you love traveling with your son?

Because my partner and I, as we get older, we find ourselves like when we travel,

being like, oh, I wonder if we could like hack it with a kid on this trip.

Like the whole time in Belize we were like, we could probably hack this.

Like we.

But we'd be okay.

We could do this with a baby.

So you start to like romanticize it a little bit.

Oh yeah.

Amanda Kendle: And it's much harder than you think and sometimes you

think it's the worst thing ever.

But I don't wanna give you false ex false expectations.

Yeah.

But at the same time, like, you know, to see as your kid grows up and they

appreciate the world, you know, in the way you really hoped that they would

and the worldview that he has from having traveled so much, I don't regret.

Any sleepless night, you know, because you know how bad jet lag is.

A jet lagged baby is a million times worse.

But oh my gosh, it's all worth it cuz we all survive and I've

kind of forgotten that now.

So.

Erin Hynes: Okay.

So I think I know what the answer to this question is, but Amanda,

do you have any regrets about how you lived your life so far and how

you've factored travel into it?

Is there anything you would do differently?

Amanda Kendle: So obviously I love, love, love this question, and it's

clear to you that I don't have regrets.

I really like, I, I pondered this like early pandemic.

I really felt you just don't care.

That's all.

That's an aspect of it.

Yes.

But yes, I certainly don't care what people think.

I'm really proud of myself for having.

Found the right balance of taking the opportunities that I thought

I might, that I really would regret if I hadn't done them.

Um, cuz you know, obviously there's endless possibilities of where you

can go and when you can go there, you know, theoretical possibilities, so.

I feel very grateful that I've managed to, I don't know how or

why, but maybe by chance made what I feel like are the right decisions.

Uh, for example, uh, quite a few years ago, my friend, uh, a dear friend

was working for six months in Inish Man, so Little Island in the Aron

Islands off the coast of Ireland, and she was only there for six months.

She was.

Close friend from Australia, but she lived on the other side, so I

didn't see her very much, but it was just such a unique place for her to

be based and I was desperate to go and visit her while she was there.

And it seemed the timing at the times when my son was, I don't know, three or

four, uh, work-wise, all sorts of things, seemed like not a great decision, but I

was like, I have to go while she's there.

I know this is, You know, I just feel so drawn to doing this and so made it

work somehow and I absolutely would've regretted it so much if I hadn't gone

to see it was a fabulous trip and, you know, unique way to see a place.

It was just perfect.

So, and similarly like the, the wedding I mentioned in in Den in Thailand and

going on to Denmark, if I hadn't gone to that, Trip, I would absolutely regret it.

I would've felt awful seeing, you know, the pictures of the wedding and then,

you know, and now to have thought, you know, missed out on Denmark.

So, I dunno what it is.

I literally don't regret any of those choices that I've made.

And some of it is you just kind of forget the choices that you decided

against, I guess, and you embrace what you do and, and love and cherish the

memories that you make from what you do.

Do I not one for standing still and not.

Kind of taking the risk I suppose.

Erin Hynes: I mean, my only regret is that I didn't travel more in my twenties.

I'm like, sometimes I'm like, oh, I probably could have

squeezed in like a bit more.

Amanda Kendle: True.

But you might have sacrificed too much to squeeze him more.

True, true, true.

You know, sometimes I think so, cuz it wasn't super common when I was

at uni to do, um, so first of all it wasn't very common to do a gap year

and studying abroad was pretty rare.

But you know, it wasn't something like I considered and turned down.

It just didn't, you know, wasn't really on the radar.

Wasn't radar.

Radar wasn't.

Yeah.

And I think wasn't super common, but you know, if I had my time again, I would love

to go back and kind of do more of that.

Like studying abroad during my degree would've been amazing.

Like now I teach study abroad students when they come to Perth, then I

think, oh, they are just having the time of their lives and they're

getting uni credit at the same time.

And I thought, oh, this is, you know, that is special.

So, but it's not really a regret.

It's just, uh, you know, that's just how life was.

But it would've been awesome.

Erin Hynes: I did study abroad and it was really awesome, and I tell everyone, like,

it's, it's an amazing way to, to travel and experience like another country.

And it's also great because there's so much funding available for studying

abroad that a lot of people don't realize.

Like it's quite accessible if you're ready in school.

Well, Amanda, thank you so much.

I always enjoy chatting with you.

Me too,

alpaca pal's.

Thank you so much for listening to the show.

If you enjoyed this episode, which actually is the final episode of.

Season five.

Don't forget to share it with a fellow traveler.

Make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast app, and if you're

feeling extra generous, you can leave us a five-star review or support us on Patreon.

We hope that you've enjoyed this season.

We've put our heart and soul into it, so if you have, please feel free to

support us in whatever way works for you.

Katie, what's in store for the future of alpaca

Kattie Laur: My bags?

Well, I was just saying to you, Erin, about how I feel like we're onto

some big things, talking about big industry changes that need to happen.

So I am so excited to just

Erin Hynes: keep basically like

Kattie Laur: reporting.

I think we're using journalism skills, like I think we are really starting to

dig in and investigate some big stuff that needs to happen in the travel industry.

And that is definitely on the docket for

Erin Hynes: season six.

Yeah, we're going into our journalism era.

I know,

Kattie Laur: right?

I got fresh bangs like bang Era journalism era.

It's gonna

Erin Hynes: be great.

Awesome.

So listen, alpaca pals, we're already working on season six,

but please be patient with us while we're in the off season.

We will re-share some older episodes that are our favorites.

We might add in some intros with some new context for those

episodes, and then you can expect.

To see season six back in your feed in the next few months.

We're not gonna say exactly when yet cuz we don't wanna commit to a specific

day or time, but it will happen

Kattie Laur: also, if any of our episodes stuck out to you this season that you

really loved our approach to doing, like our Everest episode where we had a lot

of fun off the top or any of the topics that you really want us to explore more.

Please definitely reach out to us.

Our email is in our show notes.

You can also talk to us on social media.

We see all of your tweets and all of your Instagram dms and all of your emails,

so we are always happy to chat with you about what you wanna see from the show.

Erin Hynes: Yes, please let us know what you liked, what you didn't like,

literally any feedback that you have, anything you got that's so helpful.

All right, well, let's do the spiel Al Pack my bags as written and hosted by me.

Erin Heinz.

Woohoo.

And it's produced by and edited by Katie Lore.

That's me.

That's you in Canada's Toronto area.

If you wanna check us out, just head to the show notes for all the info you need.

And alpaca pals, we won't see you in two weeks, but we'll see you soon.

So please alpac your bags safely and soon.