Rose Griffin ABA

Mon, Nov 28, 2022 10:27AM 57:27 SUMMARY KEYWORDS aba, students, parent, child, behavior, communication, people, speech therapist, autistic, iep, absolutely, support, public school, learners, fba, speech, learning, important, understand, working

00:00 Let me know if you have any questions. And like I said, it is edited. So if you want to pause, you do that. And then we'll jump right in. Okay. Do the intro and outro after we get off the line, so Iwill just pop in and have you introduce yourself. Okay. 00:20 Yeah, that sounds great. 00:22 Here we go. Hello, and thank you for joining us. I am excited to talk about behavior and communication and ABA, and today I'm going to let our guests introduce herself. And give us alittle bit about your story and how you got into strategizing for students and families. Yeah, so 00:41 my name is Rose Griffin, I'm a speech language pathologist and a board certified behavioranalyst. There are less than 500 people who are dually certified. So I love being able to help my students in such a very specific way. And I'm the founder of ABA speech, which is a private practice. And we also have digital and physical therapy products. And probably what I'm mostproud of, is our podcast, autism outreach, which is actually nearing its 100th episode, which isvery, very exciting. Yes. And we offer courses for parents and professionals. And what we reallyspecialize in is helping younger autistic learners start communicating and how to help parentsand professionals navigate, where to get started with communication, because it can be really,really tricky. And sometimes the things that we learned in graduate school are not immediatelyapplicable for autistic learners or students who have more complex needs. And so we really tryto help parents navigate that time so that every single student has a way to communicate withthe world. That's what I'm most passionate about. 01:50

It's incredibly beautiful, incredibly beautiful. You I had read somewhere, you had mentioned a story about shadowing a fellow Ohio SLP. What can you share that story with us? 02:03 Yes, actually. So my mom gave me a career test my senior year of high school because I didnot know exactly what I wanted to do. And it said speech therapists that was one of the options. And I thought to myself, never heard of that. But I knew we had a family friend whowas a speech therapist, and I shadowed her and her boss that day. And we did all kinds of fun things. We went to a home health client, who was an older individual who I think had a stroke, and they were getting speech therapy. And then we went to a school and worked with younger students. And we went to a nursing home. And I thought to myself, Wow, it's amazing that youare around people all day, which actually I love. I love being around people. I love helping others. And I always really had an interest in science. But math was never my strong suit. And so this was absolutely perfect for me. And I declared my major right after that, and never looked back. And it's been over 20 years now. And I'm super pleased to be in this field. And I love just being able to help people every day, my husband is in sales, which is helping in itsown way in medical device sales, but he never gets that rewarding feeling that he's reallyhelping others in such a very direct way. And so I really love what I do. So if you're thinking about it, you know, it's a great a great profession. Oh, good 03:22 job, Mama for giving you an assessment. I like that. Narrow it down. I didn't know rose, honestly, that you are such a niche in terms of SLP and ADA. Wow, that is. I mean, that's impressive. 03:40 Thank you. Yes. You know, what happened was my second year of being a speech therapist. Myschool job my first year they had a financial crisis and the district so my, my position got rift aswhat they call it here in Ohio got eliminated for the year. And so I took a position at theCleveland Clinic, and now it's called the learner school, but it was called the Cleveland Clinic Center for Autism. And so that's where I really learned about the science of applied behavioranalysis and was able to see just such amazing transformations and students who I'll neverforget, we had one student who was 18. He had been in public school services for 18 years. And he still had no way to communicate besides using very unsafe problem behavior. That was a barrier to him accessing school, the community life really. And I was able to see that student and help that students are using an AAC device for the first time in 18 years. And that reallystruck a fire in me on one side, it made me feel super, super sad and depressed that thisstudent was going through life not being able to communicate. But on the other hand, it made me I remember sitting in the office with my friends saying I want to go places and I want to talkto people about the science of ABA because it literally changes people's lives. And so that passion still is in me and I really love to do Help people understand how we can use speechtherapy and ABA together to help students find their path towards communication.

05:08 Let's jump into that. So can you briefly explain the basics of verbal behavior? And what thatmeans and how we can access or pick up on that? And so yes, absolutely. So 05:21 verbal behavior can mean a lot of things. If you're an ABA, that might be just one approach ofhow you're understanding and teaching language. And so that might be something like usingManding, or tactic or some of these words that are jargony that you may hear from the ABAfield. But for me, verbal speech and communication on a more basic level may be you know,receptive language, does the student understand language? What is their expressive language?Like? Are they using sign language or pictures, or an AAC device or verbal or all together, andthen social language How is our student working alongside others, which I know gets a lot offlack now online, there's a lot of things that are so very negative on Instagram and socialmedia. But my last 10 years, I worked in a middle school high school, and I really loved that age group. And I would tell the kids just think of me as your social coach, because whether youwant to admit it or not, when you get to be an adult, and you have a job, that social skill pieceis very important, and that really can make or break people's ability to earn a living. And so I do think supported social skills is important for certain learners. 06:34 Can we break down ABA a little further? Like what or I guess even I think You briefly mentionedjust what ABA stands for, for listeners that may not know and then, you know, what are thegoals of ABA? Absolutely. So 06:47 ABA is really the science of studying human behavior and applying research based strategiesand techniques to help people either increase or decrease, we call it socially significantbehavior. But that just means what is meaningful for you. So that's going to be different for every single client. And I think that's what's so great about ABA is that it is very systematic, andI like being able to work with even though I'm a BCBA. A lot of times I'm really focusing just on communication, that is my niche area. And so how can I now because Aba 10 years ago, when Iwas getting my BCBA, it wasn't covered by insurance, nobody knew what it was, no one wastalking about it. Now everybody has a very heated opinion whether they're passionate about it,or they don't like it. And it's covered by insurance now. So there are a lot of ABA providers. And so really what I tried to do is work alongside BCBAs. And that's a really big bulk of my businessis training BCBAs working with ABA providers on how do we inform our intervention practices sothat they are child led so that our students love and joy coming to therapy? And how can wehelp every single student have a way to communicate, because speech therapists I think that'sreally what we're great at is more natural environment, and everything can be a therapymaterial, and everything can be a teachable moment. And ABA is really good at using data to make informed decisions to show progress. And so when we work together, which really is hardand doesn't always happen, we can do such great things for kids.

08:35 So how long does Excuse me? Excuse me? Um, how long does ABA benefit a student? Oh, well, 08:44 I think ABA can benefit me and you today. Every day. The science is not just for autistic learners. It is everywhere. Actually, when I read the book, atomic habits. Did you read that book by James clear? 08:58 Yes. And I actually have the honor of listening to him speak. Actually this year at a conference, it was pretty impressive. Oh, 09:05 I want to hear about that. Yes, he's actually from Columbus, where is really close to me here in Cleveland. But when I read that book, I thought to myself, This sounds like a VA. It's very systematic. So Wendy, if we're gonna go if I'm going to start working out, and it's January 1,and it's really hard for me to work out. I know that I need to do things to set up the environment. So I'm successful. I need to pick a gym that's close. It needs to be affordable. I need to have my gym clothes ready. I'm setting up the environment for success. So ABA is something that infiltrates us every single day, whether we're cognizant of that and thinkingabout it or not, but I when I read atomic habits, I thought to myself, and I've always been a goalsetter, this is just really how my brain works. I've always been taking data on all types of random things in my life. And I've always been a goal setter so when I read atomic habits, Ithought to myself, I need to meet James clear. I have a couple of friends that have had him on the podcast. because I feel like I want to say Do you know what ABA is James because thiswhole book is really the science of ABA, it's setting up yourself for success and these very smallincremental changes right over time. That can be so huge. And that's really what's soabsolutely transformative, about applied behavior analysis, when I talked about my the studentthat was 18. And nobody was able to reach him, what happens is, there are a lot of autisticlearners and students with other disabilities who are hard to reach, we have to think outside of the box. Sometimes what happens here in Ohio, it's a small district, they've never had a kid likethat before. They don't know what to do with that kid. That kid walks in the schools until he gets aggressive and hurt someone, and then they get put into a specialized program. Now, that's a generalization. But that's oftentimes what what happens now that ABA is moreprevalent, I do think that a lot more schools and more consultants are doing it. And so it can help students but not everybody. Not everybody may need ABA. But for the students who reallyneed that structured approach, it really ethically is best if we are open to recommending thatfor students. 11:11 Can you discuss the relationship between communication barriers and autism? Absolutely, andeverybody with autism is going to be completely different. I've everybody with autism is going to be completely different. I ve

11:21 had a lot of amazing professionals and just individuals with autism on my podcast, andeverybody supports are different. And they've been open about sharing what those supports are. And so it's just a continuum, you know, you may have autistic learners who will never haveverbal speech, and that won't be their form of communication. Or you may have autistic learners who like Dr. Carey macro who I really do you know, Dr. Karen, macro, have, you know, okay, you have to look him up. He's great. He's autistic, an autistic adult, and he has his PhD now. And he is a public speaker. And that's how he makes his living. And he's a consultant for all these TV shows, and all these cool things. And he has a lot of sensory needs that he's shared. I've worked with him on numerous projects, but people look at him, they look at himtalking, and they say, something that's really you're not supposed to say this. They say, yeah, it doesn't look like you have autism. Because you know, people don't understand that that can bedamaging, and what does that even mean? It's loaded, right. But he has a lot of things that he's working through that we can't see. But he shares them with us. So he wants to make other people feel comfortable on their sensory journey. So it's really just a continuum, when I wasworking with older students who were in gifted classes, and maybe they just had a little socialcomponent, I would just tell them, think of me as your social coach, I'm here to help younavigate social skills, because once you hit 6/7 grade, it's very complicated. And the thing is, even at my age of 43, I'm 43. It's so complicated. Social skills are very complicated. So havinga social coach, because I just had a woman on who got diagnosed officially in her 30s or late20s. And she said, I can talk to everybody, I can make friends, that was never an issue for me.But I understand that my brain is different. I'm autistic. And the way that my brain processes information is very different than everybody else. And I thought that was great, because obviously, I'm an ally for autistic individuals. But I'm not not autistic. And I don't have an autistic child. So being able to talk with people like that is really powerful for me, in my practice, 13:26 when it's so powerful for folks that are, whether it's a family or an individual to then hear otherpeople speak, and to be able to feel not alone are isolated, that they're like, oh, wait, hold on,we could do this. And that and I think, is empower, empowering all on its own. 13:44 Good, I hope so. Because I always try to have autistic people on the podcast and families whohave an autistic person in the family, because I think that the more that I spend time online andhave an online business, I think parents really want hope. They want a sense of community. They want to feel like they're not alone. And they want somebody to talk to about things,somebody who's positive and not negative. And I think parents just when they ask questionsonline, they don't understand that people have very polarized opinions about things. And it's not always the best, best place to get feedback. Correct? Correct. So 14:19

14:19 let's dive a little deeper into communication and behavior. And how those two work together. So is behavior, a type of communication? 14:29 A lot of people would have an opinion about that I'm more middle of the road. And I just alwayssay I have this clip art that I use for a lot of my trainings that I do that is a person with adetective hat on. Because if a person is having a behavior that is unsafe, or is a barrier to themlearning, I always think why is that person engaging in that behavior? And if they could tell mewhat they wanted to tell me, what would they say? And that's not just for students who are notyet speaking, I had a student I worked at a non public program, I always divided my timebetween public and non public. And I had a student who was fully conversational, she could beon this podcast to talk with us and tell us all these fun things. But when she was feeling very heightened emotionally, she would not talk. And she didn't have selective mutism. It wasn't that diagnosis. And so I had a phrase chart for her that she helped me develop, it was very cool. She was older so we could chit chat. And when she was not feeling like she wanted to useverbal speech, she would use this phrase chart, and she would point phrases on there. And I, I remember this, I would have spent a lot of time thinking about this student, how can I help thisstudent because she really had a lot of behavior that was a barrier and mental health issues,and also also autism. And so it was a lot of things that she was dealing with. So I really think wejust have to be detectives, it's hard to not be really reactive, especially if it's your own child. Or to take it personally if it's a student that you have. But if I feel like I'm getting unpaired, with astudent, or I don't have a good rapport, or if I'm seeing a student for speech therapy, andmaybe I was bringing them to my office, but maybe they had a behavioral moment, and it feelsunsafe, how can we modify that environment. So I'm saved the students say, we know what thebehavior plan is, we have friends that can help us implement it, and paraprofessionals andthings like that. So I always try to set up the environment for success. And if my student ishaving behavior that is unsafe, or that is a barrier to their learning, or to them in the speechtherapy session, I always, obviously use my BCBA brain, I'm gonna have it a level up there. But you know, in the schools, I'm always working with an outside consultant. That was the district I worked in, was extremely fluent in, even though I'm a BCBA, I wasn't paid to do that. So I worked with my outside consultant, who was a friend, because I knew all the BCBA is in my area. So it was, it was nice. So I think you just have to really have your detective hat on andthink about why why is this taking place? And what can we modify? 17:06 How does ABA and SLP? How does that make its way into the IEP? And boy, that was a lot ofletters in one sentence. So ABA speech language, and how that were How do ABA speechlanguage? How do they kind of come together to support that individualized education programor plan for a student, 17:30 I think that every place is going to be very, very different. I'm here in Ohio, and it is extremelycommon for school districts to have outside consultants BCBAs come into the district, and to help them to help them with students who are having behavior problems to help them with all different types of issues. And I know that in other states, they'll say, Oh, well, we can't put ABA on the IEP. I've heard people say that before. I own another business called supervision Academy. And we provide remote supervision to people becoming BCBA. So I get to talk to people from all over the world, really, but mostly the country. And I think it's going to reallydepend on where you're based and the mindset of ABA and whether it's in the schools. But here in Ohio, we would write if there was an outside consultant that maybe came in once amonth, we would write that into that the IEP, and it would be there. And then the BCBA would be invited to the meeting, potentially they've done an FBA. So they're looking at why problembehavior is occurring, the student then might have a behavior intervention plan that will also bepart of that IEP document. And that's what's nice is that everybody on the team is going overthose documents and has access to them because the student is not working in a bubble.Hopefully they're not in a classroom, they should be navigating the whole larger schoolenvironment working with many different people. And so that is really how we implemented itthere is in the IEP based on assessment and student

19:04 need. Right, exactly. And so how would a parent that may be listening to this? How could theyseek out or any recommendations that you've heard or had or seen in terms of seeking out anABA support? And figuring out what exactly do they need? Because a lot of times parents arethe ones that have to bring the data to the school and say, Alright, this is what I'm seeing sothat it doesn't get muddy in terms of other team members saying, you know, we can't do thisat our school, but what can we do for parents to be able to have that language to seek outsomebody that may that can then come in and consult with the school system that may not bepart of the school system to help support that child through their school day and to help withthe IEP team? 19:56 I think one thing is usually what happens in it Public School is that if a student is engaging inbehavior that is a barrier to them learning and making progress with IEP goals. I actually justhad a client tell me this, I was really, really surprised that this happened here, where I'm fromthat their son is younger he was having he was on a different medicine, he was having someproblem behavior that was not characteristic of him. School called the parent and the parent had to come get him based on his behavior. So I'm sure this is not a surprise to you working inthe field that you work in, but parents listening, that's not appropriate. That's really never ever appropriate. So number one, if that happens to your child, and number two, if they don't have ifthey haven't had a FBA done, which is just a fancy term for us understanding why a student isengaging in this behavior, then that's step one. And how we do that in a public school istypically the school psychologist is where you would start. And so if you think your child isengaging in behavior, and doesn't have to be aggressive behavior could be eloping, it can begetting leaving the classroom, it could be not being able to sit in their chair, it could be notbeing able to go out for whatever classes they usually go out for. I would say I'm requestingand formally requesting the school psychologist to do an FBA so that we can understand what'sgoing on. Number two, if you're and then from that you should have a behavior plan thateverybody on the team knows about the speech therapist, or occupational therapists, the gymteacher, that really is very important that everybody in minimal, has a copy of it, andunderstands what it means. And I think that's so important. I was really surprised that the parents that I work with, I see a couple private clients here in Ohio didn't know what an FBAwas because their child gets a BA and their child does have behavioral barriers. And so I was trying to coach them, I feel like I do a lot of advocating for my parents and parent coaching.Because that's really, really important. It's your right, as a parent, that's the, that's the students, right. And every student should be in school. And that behavioral piece really needs to be taken care of. And now, I feel like there's so many BCBAs, the field is just growing, it's an upward trend. And you really need to just start interviewing people in your area to findsomebody that you like. And obviously, if your school district is saying no, you know, get anadvocate that's friendly, and collaborative, but firm, and then work on getting what your childneeds. Let's take a step back.

22:33 Can you break down behavior plans or behavior intervention plans? Absolutely. So 22:38 a behavior intervention plan will be done after we understand what are the certain behaviorsthat the student is engaging in, that might be a barrier to them learning in their classroommight be a barrier to them going out into the community. And so then what we typically look at are things that we can do, we say, antecedently. So before, what can we do so this behavior doesn't take place. So maybe like we've talked about, we need to modify the environment, itcould be something as easy as visuals, maybe the student needs a visual schedule. Not every autistic student needs that. But some students do benefit from visuals, maybe they need somereminders about their day, maybe if there's a fire drill, they need to be warned about that aweek in advance five days in advance four days in advance, and we're going over the story andwe have the headphones on every student is going to be different. But what we're trying to dois setting our students up for success so that these behaviors don't occur. And then communication is a huge part of that functional communication training. If I can say I need abreak, I don't want to do that right now, I'd rather do something different. I'm just thinking of allthe stuff I've taught my students, I need one more minute, things like that, to try to navigatetheir world with communication, instead of unsafe problem behavior that's really, reallyimpactful. And then obviously, for safety reasons, we do need to have a plan because I workedat middle school, high school, and then you get adolescents involved in there and all differenttypes of things. And it's a whole new ballgame. And sometimes students are in going to engage in behavior. And so we need to have a plan so that the staff is safe, so that the student is safe.And that so if something occurs, that the parents are very in the loop on what has occurred andwhat the plan is, should something happen in the school environment. And so in the district, I worked in every district I've worked and I think it's just because I'm interviewing the districtswhen I was working in the schools, but we always had were crisis trained. And we had teams and it's just it's really up to your district to have that responsibility and to have thatcollaborative loop with the parent as well. 24:45 So I just want to kind of clarify for folks that may not know that your FBA or your functionalbehavioral analysis is going to come first so that you can look at the behavior see what'shappening, and then from there, determine of the havior intervention plan or a bit, depending

pp g, , p,pgon your acronyms that you use, what does the federal law say about behaviors as it relates tospecial education? A free appropriate education and individualized education plan? Oh, I'm 25:17 not sure I did take the rights law course recently. Actually, I think I told you that I joined COPPAand everything last year, but I, you know, I'm not sure exactly, it's some point some studentsdo engage in behavior that is unsafe for the district is unsafe for the student. And here in Ohio, we do have quite a few non public programs that help educate students that cannot be safelyeducated in a public school. And I've spent my whole career working in non public programsand public schools kind of dividing my time. And it's hard because sometimes parents will think,Well, you know, public schools, not good, this isn't good enough, I really want my kids to be inthis non public program. But if you really tore the non public program, all the students areusually in there because they have very unsafe problem behavior. So it's a very different dynamic. And it's hard to recreate things that you just naturally have in a public school, likegetting on a bus with peers, and having gym class, and having adapted physical education, andhaving music programs, and opportunities for field trips, every non public program is going tobe different. But what the non public program is trying to do is trying to recreate the publicschool education so that the students can have that, but that they can have that level ofintensity of therapy, and usually ABA, or whatever specialized service it is. But I always feel sadfor students whose parents think that that's the better option, when really, we just need totighten up what is happening in the public school. But you know how that goes, it's very hard,right? Where there's a lot of staff training, people have to be on board, we have to haveadministrative support, there has to be money behind that training. And so it gets very, very complicated. But if you can find a public school that will work with you. And now there's so many ABA providers, you could probably do a little after school ABA, and kind of put together anice little program for your child, I really do think, depending on where you live, the publicschools have a lot to offer. 27:29 What can the school do to provide accommodations for students that have that are trying tocommunicate through behavior? Yeah, 27:37 well implement the behavior plan, be trained on what to do before the behavior occurs. I think that sounds so simplistic to make sure that everybody has a copy of the behavior plan. But what happens and I it may not happen at meetings that you're at, because I'm sure if you'reattending IEP meetings, it's probably all hands on deck, everybody's staying for the fullmeeting. But what happens at a very, like kind of run of the mill IEP is that, you know, gen edteachers, their special ed teacher, principal special speech therapist might come in do theirpart might have to leave because they have to start seeing clients, students, if they miss thosesessions, they have to be made up, ot might come in, do their part, have to leave PT, etc. job coach. So as simple as it sounds, making sure that every single person on the team has thebehavior plan, asking your speech therapist, do you have Joe's behavior plan? Do you need meto give you a copy of it, I wouldn't try to catch somebody in a lie because the speech therapist may not, oh, well, he's always fine when he's with me, everybody has a different idea. But we have to have, I'm very old school. So I have this clipboard. And this is how I've operated the past 20 years. But when I had students who had a behavior plan, I just always had it readily available. So I was in the loop on what to do before behavior, and if something would happen.

28:56 And I encourage parents all the time, through my IEP coaching, because I've been a special edteacher sitting at that table. I've also my middle son has medical needs. So I've been a parent sitting at that table. And if parents are listening now, I would say that it is it was super hard forme as a parent and a professional to be at that table. It's still so it's very emotional, right? Soyou're as a parent, you're coming from a place of this fear and love. And so I would encourageparents to really even invite a friend to come along to hear because you're absolutely right interms of IEP meetings, depending on people's schedule, and depending on the district,depending on the school, folks are coming in and out of that meeting. And so to be able to ensure that everybody on that team understands that child understands the child's needs, hasaccess to all of that and I know some professionals are listening and saying of course they theyhave to yes, we know that but we want to make sure parents know that. They can be the takethe lead on this communication part to be that accountability partner for the team to ensurethat everybody on the team understands what's taking place for your baby for your child.Absolutely, I 30:13 think that's really important is that we shouldn't just assume that everybody has a copy of thebehavior plan. And we shouldn't just assume that everybody understands what it means. And I think that that's important to push for if your student is going to be navigating the larger schoolenvironment, and everybody needs to be on board with how things should be set up, or what todo if something were to happen to really say, Can the BCBA can the school psychologist do astaff training? At the start of the year at the end of the year, if there's a change? And can wedocument that I think those things are all because especially if your student is older, middleschool, high school, a lot of times teachers are getting together in grade level teams ordepartment teams. And so it's easy to catch, it's almost easier. I always thought at middle school high school to catch all the teachers together. So but that's really important tologistically make sure and we have a lot of PD time in our schedule where we have to docertain trainings. And there's absolutely no reason why that can't be a day to go over a behavior plan. 31:16 Right, exactly. And so should IEP goals reflect the goals of ABA? I think 31:24 so I don't think you need to say ABA in your goal. But the way that I would write my goals, youcould probably tell that I'm a speech therapist and a BCBA. Because they're pretty structured. But I don't think you need to say ABA. But if a child has a behavior intervention plan, they're But I don t think you need to say ABA. But if a child has a behavior intervention plan, they re probably going to have a goal, a behavior goal, because that's a reason that we're working onthat. And absolutely, I don't think you need to put ABA into the goal. But I think having it in theServices section, if you want to have a BCBA, that's going to do a plan or update your child'splan, or monitor or train staff, which is really important, especially now because you know,every district is different, but there can be a lot of turnover and things like that we need justmake sure that everybody is on board, and that we have ongoing communication. And that's really important.

32:15 Can you expand on that in terms of giving us some like techniques or strategies or structurethat what it would look like for a child possibly in their IEP, and then in their school day ofcombining SLP and 32:32 ABA? Absolutely. So something that I think that is a really robust way to work oncommunication, is that the speech therapists really is not the most important person on the team. I drive the ship, I do the assessment, I come up with the communication goals. That's my expertise. Do I see the student I do. And I know that parents and this is always hard for me,because in my private practice, I have a great rapport with my parents. They liked me, I come into their house. And public school, I always especially where I worked, it was very fluent. So people were very guarded. And they really just thought, Oh, this is a public school, they'regoing to give us the bare minimum. So they would really I'd have a kid who was getting maybetwo times a week for speech three times a week for speech was there's a lot of speech. And these parents would want four times a week of speech. And what I really wanted to say tothem, which you can't in a public school, but I stepped away from that after 20 years in May, towork on ABA speech is it's not about me. I'm not the most important person, I see your childonce a week for 30 minutes, twice a week for 30 minutes, you know who's most important, theteacher, you know, who's really most important, the paraprofessionals that who is who is mostimportant. So what I always tried to do, the way to think about as wraparound servicesgeneralization is I would work on communication during speech therapy sessions, but the databinder would live in the classroom. And so then I would train the teacher and the ParaPRO on how to run the communication programming. Now that was something that we did in anonpublic school, the registered behavioral technicians would run my communication programsunder my direction. On the days the students didn't have speech. And so that's definitelysomething I brought from my nonpublic side of my life to my public school that I think made mycommunication program really awesome that a lot of people don't do, because it's not aboutwhen the students with me, it's really about what are they doing all day communication takesplace all day. It's what happens outside of the therapy room. So I always tried to know I had been in this district 10 years. So I had built rapport with everybody. And it was like a well oiled machine. But in the beginning, I would do trainings and I would do things like that, and buildrapport with people so that they would run the communication programs on days that thestudent doesn't have speech, because that's what's most important. Where is the child everyday? Do they have their device out? Are they using their device to the people know what's inthe device? These are simple Questions, but they're super important. And it actually doesn'thave a ton to do with the speech therapist, it's more about a training component.

35:05 And training the parent as well with that device if a child has a device training the parent, sowe love that that constant communication with the team, and then that ability to take what achild has learned in one on one therapy and be able to apply it to their everyday life, whetherit's in the classroom, outside of the classroom, on the playground, wherever that may be, toimprove future education, independence, and employment outcomes. Absolutely. 35:35 And I had parents, I worked with some parents who were, I don't want to say demanding,because that seems negative. But we're very involved with their students communication, andthey would come and observe once a month, because that was a right as a parent, and I wouldmake videos. So I had a lot of students who would get speech from me, who had an outsidetherapist who had an outside BCBA. And so maybe twice a month, I would make a video frommy therapy room using my school district iPad, which was great that I had that aboutsomething that we were working on. This is how we answer What is your name, this is how wefind this vocabulary word on a device. And then I would share it as a Google Drive link with the team. And I think that was really powerful, too, to make sure that everybody's on the samepage, that everybody's working on stuff in a similar way. So the students not confused. And so there's all different types of things that parents can do. And I think what's most important isjust to understand what exactly does my students day look like. And while I, those parentobservations, were stressful, I think for everybody involved, I think it was good for the parent tosee, this is what speech looks like, this is what your student looks like in the classroom, whenit's led by the teacher, this is how your student looks in this class. And that really is your rightas a parent, to be able to observe like that, and to see how your child is doing. And I think that's important. 37:05 When can speech therapy began for children? And then when should parents start to seek 37:11 help? Good question. Anytime you think I mean by one kids are saying their first words. So if your child is silent, and they're not babbling, and saying little things, and if they don't have aword by one, you really need to say something. And you really need to get them evaluated. If you have a family history of autism, or anything like that, I know that they can do evaluationsvery young, I'm helping a couple I'm licensed in Washington, and Oregon. And so I work with some ABA providers, and we have some kids who are, too. And it's just their babies, it's so cute, because I have three kids of my own, who are older now. And I'm like, oh my goodness to How fun is that. But immediately if your gut instinct is that you are nervous about your child'sdevelopment, then you really should seek out an evaluation. And the thing about privatespeech therapy is you can just you can get an evaluation, and you can see how your child isdoing if it's covered by your insurance, that's great, because that'll be better. But you canalways find a speech therapists who is private pay, who will help you and there's obviouslyBirth to Three services. And then once your child is three, you can get them evaluated at a public school. But early intervention is so very important not only for your child, to help themon their road to communication, but for you as the parent so that you're not anxiety ridden.And I just know so many parents who are just sick because they're nervous about their child'sdevelopment. Does my child have a speech delay? Does my child have early signs of autism? Ismy child just fine. I'm listening to my aunt who said, Oh, well, so and so didn't start talking until they were four. That's not true. Don't listen to that person. Do not listen to that person. So we try to provide a lot of programming for people at that age. And I don't know when this is goingto air but we're going to start starting in December, we're going to start doing once a monthfree parent trainings all about communication, communication milestones, what you can doevery day as a parent in as little as 15 minutes to help your child start communicating.

39:24 That is fantastic. And I you can share that with me. I'll put it in the show notes so people know when those trainings are and how to access that. So do parents play a role in the goals of ABA or speech language at home? 39:41 At home, like goals for IPs or goals that 39:46 maybe they're seeing a private ABA or private SLP or somebody that's like you that has all thetrainings, and they're working with somebody at home. Where does that parent come in to play with and child, what I think 40:01 is great about ABA is that most often times it is a requirement that you have parent training aspart of your ABA, which is nice because they can go over some general concepts with you, theycan go over how your child is doing. And I work with a lot of parents who are extremely savvy,who understand what some of the assessments are, that we use to understand what the word tact means, and all these obscure ABA terms because they're fully immersed. So I do think that part is really nice. I do think if you have somebody who is outside of your ABA provider to talkwith, whether it's an advocate or somebody like me, who's creating content online, it's just niceto have somebody outside of your IEP team to run some items by and to get their opinion onthings. But definitely, parent training is a big component of ABA services. And so that means that you'll be talking with your provider. And it should be some general implementation of ABA plus how your child is doing. 41:13 Can you discuss the action builder cards and their functions for student or their function forstudents with any types of communication barriers?

41:21 I'd love to Yes, that's how I started my whole business. So I saw the action builder cards, it's a set of 100 flashcards, and there are 13 actions that are represented. And there's many different pictures. And so in the field of ABA, we call it multiple exemplar training. So if I'm going to showyou a picture of eating, and you're going to label eating, I'm not going to just show you onepicture, I'm going to show you many pictures like eating ice cream, eating pizza, eating apple.And then that way we can help our children generalised language skills, which is so hard forautistic learners. And so I created those five years ago and send them out every day to peopleall over the world, which is really such a joy. So if your child has an expressive language delay, it's a great tool to have at home. 42:08 Are there other tools for parents or teachers? Absolutely, I 42:12 actually have another product called double up. And that is for middle school, high school students. So working on leisure vocabulary and hygiene vocabulary, which is so important forour older learners. And so it's a game you can match picture to picture, you can match picture,to associate a picture, so the noun to the action. And people really love that. Because when I first got into the middle school, I actually the high school, I actually filled an entire trashcan inthe hallway, because somebody had been there for 30 years in the position, who retired. And then I took the position. And there was some old materials. And so I created that. And it's very hip. And it's real life pictures, which is so very important for our older students very respectful.So I think that's important. And yeah, I think those are good go twos. 43:06 Do you have extra tips or suggestions for parents that may have concerns about their child'scommunication or verbal behavior, 43:14 I would just say make sure that you get an evaluation if you're worried about your child. And then if your child is in services, make sure that you are talking with your provider. And you understand how you can carry over that to the home environment. And maybe find somebodyoutside of your IEP team like an advocate or somebody like ABA speech where we do parenttraining and parent consults, because sometimes it's just nice to have somebody to run thingsby. And I do that for my private clients all the time. They're getting speech therapy in thehome, they're getting ABA, and then I come and they can ask me questions. Well, what does that mean? Well, this happened, what should I do? They want to dismiss him from speech, youknow, all of these little things, and I can kind of weigh in and be a sounding board, it's really important that you're not going it alone. So I would make sure that you find a community oryou find somebody that you can use us as a sounding board. Don't ask general questions onFacebook groups or Instagram because you can get some really, really nasty remarks that youas a parent are already navigating having a child with a disability potentially, which I'm surethere's an emotional component to that. And then somebody says something mean to you, andit's just horrific, horrific, how people are treated on the internet, but maybe that's just me,because I'm on there all the time. But you just have to be careful where you're asking questions. Find the tribe. That's right. So behaviors occur later in life with no previous sign ofbehavior barriers, like have you seen where you have a child that has starts to developbehaviors as they get older and demand start to increase? Privacy Do students it really has todo with adolescence, I think in hormones and puberty, I definitely think children in middleschool and high school are going through that. And if you're autistic and you're not speaking,that is going to be a harder journey to navigate, it seems. And it's harder to find resources on how to help your child through that different type of time. So I have, I've absolutely seenstudents, their behavior change in middle school in high school, not to say that it's alwaysgoing to be like that. But if you think back even to just typical development, how kids act,whether they're in middle school in high school, it's a growing time, and you're testingboundaries. And I absolutely have seen students start to engage in different types of behaviors.And I do think it's secondary to that.

45:49 What happens if these verbal behaviors are left untreated or ANSYS unsupportive? 45:54 Well, I mean, then you could be like the student that I talked about at the beginning of theshow, who was 18, and had no way to communicate, and he really needed more specializedservices. And you really have to make sure there's something called the communication Bill of Rights. And you can Google it. And it's just making sure that everybody has their voice. So if your child uses an AAC device, we need to make sure that it's always charged and it's ready togo, and that they're bringing it places in the community. I always get so excited when I see somebody who has an AAC device in the community. Yes, look at that's great. Their speech therapists would be so proud. But if you're not, and I think this is the thing, too, no matter howold your child is, if they're not able to spontaneously communicate on their own, somethingneeds to change. Their intervention needs to change, we need to do another assessment. We need to goal set, and we need to get some experts in. And I don't think that's bad. I when I was working in my old district, we had a student with selective mutism. And we work with a place called the Smart center. It was great. I loved it. It was a lot ABA based I thought, but it was cool.I really learned as a professional and I love being able to learn how to help support that studentbecause that was something that was new to me. I think as public school employees, we shouldn't feel guarded or defeated. If we have to work with a consultant. I love that consultant. Because sometimes I can say, I think we should work on labeling apple. And then the consultant says, we know what I think we should really work on labeling apple, and the parentgoes, Yeah, that's right, that consultant, even though we may say the same thing, thatconsultant is needed to have that communication loop. And I learned that 20 years ago, so I'm fine with that. But some people feel really defensive. But we shouldn't feel that way, we should be able to learn and say that this is really going to expand our competence. When we're working with students where we have to think outside of the box, they need somethingdifferent.

47:55 And as an educator, you're getting this specialized input, the specialized training that you canthen help support other students. Yes, and you're aware of what what options can be and howyou can work together as a team, for sure. Absolutely, 48:12 you're able to help so many more people. And that's what I say in my trainings with parentsand professionals is, I'm not just helping you today, with the one child or the one student thatyou logged in for, I'm helping you for all the students that are going to present like this thatyou'll have over the course of your career. And now autism is one and 44. When I started in the field, it was one and 242. And we would say in four to one boys, I don't even say that kind of stuff anymore. Because we know autism and girls isn't diagnosed as much and things but it'sreally changing. So you're going to know somebody with autism and these skills are going tohelp you navigate those situations. 48:53 What even back to kind of our read when we started our conversation in terms of setting up anenvironment for success, I think benefits all students. Absolutely Special Education lens, if wecan set up our expectations, set up the environment set up the needs for the learner ahead oftime and do that heavy load prior to the school year starting really benefits 49:17 all students. Am I does, it does these things are good practice good universal things that allstudents will benefit from. Absolutely. 49:28 As we kind of wind down rose, what is something that I didn't know enough to ask I should haveasked as a parent, as a parent as a professional. What did we not cover that we should have? Oh, today? Oh gosh, that's 49:43 a tough question. Huh?

49:47 Well, I mean, something that you 49:49 might want to ask that you may not know about is if you are a parent and you do think thatyour child is benefiting from Applied Behavior Analysis, and you're in a public school, you Youmight want to talk to your speech therapist about their thoughts on applied behavior analysisbecause some speech therapists are anti ABA. And some speech therapists don't know a lot about ABA, but would learn. And so I think it's good to understand where people are coming from. Because in a public school, we really have to take the parents, your opinion matters,you're a big part of the team. And so I think that's important, because now everybody has an opinion. And so you might be working with a speech therapist, and you may not be able to getmuch traction, when you're talking about ABA, or when you're bringing your BCBA into the IEPmeeting. And you might be thinking, why is this taking place, and you may talk to the speechtherapist, and they may not like ABA, and so that might be working against you. So that's a whole other conversation, but something to think about? 50:48 What are some resources or tools that you've been using lately that have helped make liveseasier for the clients that you support? Absolutely, 50:57 I really love this may sound silly, but books. And actually using my own voice, I have seen thatwith younger professionals, instead of reading a child a book with their own voice, they maywant to look it up on YouTube. And I always train people and say, That's, we don't want to do that. Because when we're working on that shared activity, it's all about us and the child andlistening as a parent to it's about us and the child, if they don't sit and listen the whole time.That's completely fine. If we don't have to say the story, word for word for word, we canparaphrase for our child's attention span. But I think just getting back to the basics, and usingbooks in our own voice is something that is really powerful. And I see people not doing enough. 51:47 If we had a billboard for parents with one tip, what would it be? And why? 51:54 I would probably have on there Don't ask too many questions. What parents tend to do with their own children is ask a bunch of questions. So they may say, what is it? What do you dowith it? What color is it? Where do you find it? And maybe this kid's using one word tocommunicate? We don't want to do that. Let's say that I have this little bird. And I might say, Oh, it's a bird. Mommy has a bird. Oh, that birdie flies up, up, up. So instead of asking questions, we use simple language. We're modeling simple language. So I would reallyencourage parents, and I had a parent we weren't I wrote that on a home note, don't ask toomany questions. And they put it up in their living room. And that really changed their behavior.They have an autistic child, it really changed their behavior. And so now they're just using moresimple language to narrate their day talk about things and that's been huge.

52:52 How can people find you? 52:54 Yeah, come and visit me ABA. speech.org is my website. And ABA speech by Rose is myInstagram where I add daily content all about helping autistic learners on their road tocommunication. 53:08 If I'm a parent, and I'm looking for your services, how do you prefer to be contacted? 53:13 Yeah, through the website is great. Aba speech.org. I have a whole section that's called work with me. And so I do parent consults. We have courses that are geared towards parents, one inparticular is called start communicating today. And that is all about helping students start communicating. How do we get started in communication at home as a parent, and I've had alot of parents take that course. And it's been really, really beneficial for their children in helping them start talking. 53:42 Incredible, incredible nuggets. I love it. Thank you for your time, you have just enlightened usand given us a direction and now people know where to find you if they have more questions tohave to get answered. So I appreciate it. Well, thanks 53:56 so much for having me on. 53:57 You bet. Thank you. Alright, I'm going to hit pause. Aba, FBA VIP IEP sounds like an AF of alphabet soup to me. Today we are deciphering what those terms mean and how verbalbehaviors ABA and speech language. Let's try that again. Aba, FBA VIP IEP totally sounds like an alphabet soup. Today we are deciphering those terms. We're talking about verbal behaviors,ABA and speech language and how they all relate and how we can support our kiddos andparents how you can support your kiddo. Welcome to the special ed strategist podcast where we strategize all things special ed. If you are a new parent to special education or a seasoned parent sitting at the IEP table. Today is a conversation you certainly want to listen in on andfigure out how we can better support our children who are experiencing behavior andcommunication challenges. I'm talking with Rose Griffin, and we're getting some insights onbehaviors, communication and the need for a structured environment that will support behaviorand improve communication. I am your host Wendy Taylor. I am a mom and special educator, Ihave sat on both sides of the IEP table as a parent and a professional. Over the last 25 plusyears, I have made it my passion and mission to help parents and professionals bridge learninggaps, access special education services, and build kick butt IEPs. If you want to want more tips, show us some love on social at learning essentials. If you are new to our podcast, give us a like and a follow. If this conversation is helpful to you and you know of a parent or professional thatcould benefit please share it with them. Let's get ready to strategize a special education style. Welcome. Thank you again for listening to these incredible positive insights and nuggets tohelp broaden our understanding of ABA SLP and supporting students with behavior andcommunication. My three special ed strategy takeaways from this podcast include parents canformally request for an FBA to understand why a child is engaging in certain behaviors, andwhat can we do to modify the environment to support learning and communication and as aparent, seek support, find your community and trust your gut. Thank you again for strategizing with us and spending your precious time listening. If you love what you've heard, give us a like and to follow at learning essentials. Looking for free tips. Head on over to learning essentialsedu.com and you can download free tips to prepare for an IEP meeting. Plus bonus questions to ask. I am your host Wendy Taylor. If you need more special education support visit learningessentials where we provide individualized and systematic approach to supporting studentswith various learning needs and differences through academic coaching and educationaltherapy. Brain camp is our executive function support model. If you're a parent, we've got you covered through our IEP coaching