Erin Hynes: Hey, alpaca pals.

Okay, so it's the end of the year.

So Katie and I thought we should get together and do a little episode, just

her and I to talk about the end of the year and what next year looks like.

So we're gonna chat about travel predictions for 2023.

We're also gonna talk about some of our travel highlights from 2022.

Two, because as you know, we both took a very long break from travel

during the pandemic, and this year we got to get back into it.

And then we're gonna talk about the future of the podcast.

Hi Katie.

Hi Erin.

Okay, so we're gonna talk about our own travels.

Hi.

But before we get into that, I wanted to talk about this Lonely Planet

list that comes out every year.

Basically at the end of every year, lonely Planet releases their list of

top destinations for the next year.

So the list of best destinations for 2023 came out pretty recently

and I thought we should talk about it cuz I'm really into this list.

Because, okay.

This is the main reason I'm into it.

I feel like they do a really good job of highlighting places that get overlooked.

And they like, they're not basic.

They don't say the destinations that, like you see all over TikTok, for example.

Kattie Laur: I noticed that Brentford is not on the list, Erin.

No, but I noticed that there was.

A lot of countries that I was familiar with, but definitely some second cities

I would say that were on there that I was like, Ooh, this kind of seems like it's

encouraging people to go to newer places.

People are still going to those countries, but newer cities and and

destinations within those countries, which

Erin Hynes: was cool.

For sure.

We're gonna talk about this more like a specific example, but I loved that

too because like for example, Indonesia is on the list but they're not talking

about Bali or like the places that everyone knows to go to, which is

really awesome cuz that's like one way to sort of help with over tourism.

It's like encouraged tourists to go to places that are less

traveled within a popular country.

Yes.

Love to see it.

I also love how they structure the list because they break it

down by different interests.

Yes.

So it's broken into these like different pillars.

Kattie Laur: I was gonna ask you about this because there was different pillars.

There was eat journey, unwind, connect, and learn, and each of

the destinations were sort of categorized in their own little pocket.

So which was the one that you clicked on first is what I want to know.

Erin Hynes: Journey.

I clicked on journey first.

I had to think about it for a second.

Kattie Laur: I clicked on eat.

I was very excited about that.

So I don't

Erin Hynes: understand this, Katie, as someone with a peanut allergy, I don't

know how you can click on eat first.

Gotta

Kattie Laur: bring up the allergies on the podcast.

Listen,

Erin Hynes: you just like jogged my memory.

Cause the first time I travel with someone who isn't Luke, they

always find this really funny.

When I was in Portugal last year with um, my friend Sheer,

she was laughing her head off.

Cuz every time she got like, A really good meal.

I would ask to smell it.

Cause I was like, I can't eat it, but can I smell it?

Kattie Laur: Hey, a smell is worth a thousand words.

Erin Hynes: People laugh about this, but I get a lot out of that smell.

So Katie, I wanted to ask what destinations caught your eye on the list?

Kattie Laur: So I had five that caught my eye.

Um, but I kept it to three that I like, was very excited about

actually possibly visiting.

So I was really excited about their highlight of New Mexico.

I've never even cons.

Considered New Mexico before, but like scrolling through the pictures and all

of the destination little ideas, I was like, Ooh, maybe a little, a little

jaunt over to the United States of America is where I should be headed.

And then I was also excited to see South Africa on the list.

So my parents have actually been to South Africa.

I, my dad's been a couple of times and my mom has gone with him at least once.

As far as I can remember.

South Africa is the destination that they talk.

All about, like all the time.

My dad decided he, he basically turned into a wildlife photographer

when he went to Kruger National Park.

They've got pictures all over their house of all the animals

that he took pictures of.

He is obsessed and I think they wanna go again.

So seeing this on the Lonely Planet list, I was like, okay.

Like I knew it was cool and I definitely wanna go to an actual, like National

Park like that, but it was cool to see that on the list, actually

Erin Hynes: had someone.

Tell me that South Africa is their favorite country that

they've ever traveled to.

I think that's the same for my dad.

Actually, a lot of my family from the Netherlands travels there.

Kattie Laur: Interesting.

I was also intrigued by Fukuoka.

Is that how you pronounce it?

In Japan?

Erin Hynes: I don't know if that's how you pronounce it,

but that's how I would say it.

Kattie Laur: So yes.

Okay, great.

So I was excited by that because I've been telling you that I'm really

hoping to go to Japan soon, and I think it might be a trip for 2024,

which I'm like very excited about.

But I looked at the map and Fukuoka is on the opposite side of the island,

so Tokyo's on the other side, and I was like, oh, well if you went there,

then you might not get to go to Tokyo.

And then I was like, how far?

Would it take to get across the entire island?

And I looked up the bullet train because we are obsessed with

trains on this podcast now.

So taking the bullet train from Fukuoka to Tokyo would be about five hours.

That would be to travel a distance that would normally be driven

between 12 hours to 22 hours.

And I looked up what that is in North America, like the comparison.

So New York City to Chicago is about 12 hours, and Toronto

to Halifax is about 17 hours.

Imagine being able, sorry, I'm peaking, my mic is peaking.

Imagine being able to get to Halifax in five hours.

Yeah, bullet.

Erin Hynes: Trains are the future.

Kattie Laur: I guess airlines exist, but assuming they didn't, five hour

train ride to get to Halifax would be, that could be a weekend trip.

Erin Hynes: Listen, that's like a, the flight to Halifax from Toronto

is like four, four and a half hours.

So bullet train is literally as fast as a plane almost.

Well, there you go.

Kattie Laur: There you go.

And then, okay, finally my last little notable thing that I noticed was that

Western Australia is on the list.

And I was like, I wonder what Amanda Kendall thinks about that.

Erin Hynes: Well, I think it should be on the map cuz like I told Amanda,

I love Western Australia and I don't know why no one goes there.

We should ask her.

I have one thought that I need to share about the first place you mentioned

New Mexico as an alien enthusiast.

I'm surprised that you don't know that Roswell, New Mexico is home of the

annual U F O Festival, honestly, that I have been intending to go to since.

Like basically forever.

I messed up.

I

Kattie Laur: honestly just, I know both of these things.

I did not piece them together.

Erin Hynes: Well, New Mexico 2023 could very well happen because

the USO festivals on I'm Game to

Kattie Laur: Go.

Yes.

So then tell me about your destinations.

I caught your eye.

Erin Hynes: Okay, well, I kind of hinted at it already, but the first

destination that caught my eye was the Rajat Amat Islands in Indonesia.

These are like very sparsely populated islands, and I was reading that there's

more than 1500 of them, and they're just off of Sarang in Indonesia.

So like I mentioned before, I think it's really cool that.

Lonely Planet is highlighting this like lesser known area of Indonesia.

The tourism there isn't quite as built up as other areas that people know about.

Like Bali, it got me really excited cuz I really wanna go to Indonesia,

but I was like, do I wanna go to Bali?

Like I wanna see more.

The other destination that caught my eye isn't, it's not really a

destination, it's more of an experience.

Okay.

Um, the lonely planet highlighted a train route, but

Kattie Laur: the, I saw this.

I, okay, cool.

Are we train nerds now?

Erin Hynes: Do we just love trains?

I have been for years.

Like I tell people all the time, the thing that like I loved most about India,

honestly was like taking the train.

I love trains, so obviously I had to bring up this train route.

Yes.

And it goes from Istanbul, Turkey to Sophia Bulgaria, and it's actually

an old train route that was out for a while and they just restored it.

So now you can book a sleeper car to make the journey overnight.

Hmm.

So yeah, I'm obsessed with train travel and I've been to Istanbul

but not Sophia, and I've always wanted to go back to Istanbul.

So this is like, It's like the universe telling me I have to do it.

Kattie Laur: So what destinations on the list have you actually been to though?

Erin Hynes: Just a few.

Like I mentioned, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, which like

definitely belongs on the list.

I'm surprised by how few people go to Malaysia when they're in Southeast Asia.

Jordan, of course, very happy to see that cuz I'm obsessed with Jordan.

That was like, A life-changing trip.

Everyone should do it.

And I was super excited to see Nova Scotia.

Me too.

Underrepresented.

Like everyone talks about Western Canada and I just feel that we need

to talk more about Eastern Canada and this isn't about arguing about

witches better, just Nova Scotia.

They deserve, they deserve more attention.

Kattie Laur: Yeah.

So, If there was a destination that you could put on this list,

Erin, what do you think's missing?

Okay.

Erin Hynes: I'm really happy you asked this because there's a place I've

been thinking about a lot lately, and that is Bosnia Herzegovina.

Oh, interesting choice.

Particularly the city Sarajevo.

A lot of people go to Mo Star.

It's an easy day trip if you're in Croatia.

So lots of people go to Mo Star, but Sarajevo not so much, and I

bring it up because I like just fully fell in love with that city.

It left a huge impression on me and in a way that other cities

in Europe just never have.

Sarajevo, for example, is one of the few cities where you can walk between a

Catholic church, an orthodox church, a synagogue, and a mosque all in one day.

Like all in one neighborhood.

The city is home to like 500 year old markets, but it also has craft breweries.

Mm-hmm.

Hookah bars like shops where you can have Turkish coffee.

And the other thing is, it's.

Is that it's very close to nature.

So while I was there, I did little day trips to like

waterfalls and into the mountains.

But besides all that fun stuff, like the biggest impression came from the history

of the city and the history of the Bosnian war, which happened when I was a baby.

And I remember like going to Bosnian Herzegovina and honestly like not

knowing anything about the Bosnian war, but while I was there, it like jogged.

This is kind of.

Crazy.

It jogged these memories I had of being, cuz I was like between the ages

of two and six when the war happened.

I have memories of sitting on the kitchen floor while my mom was cooking

and she always had this little TV on the counter when I was really young

and I remember seeing images of the war and they stuck with me and I know cuz

I asked her later, I was like, mom, I have these like, Memories of just seeing

like a war on TV when I was really, really young and you would like cook

while I played on the kitchen floor.

And she was like, yeah, I was watching the coverage.

And then while I was there, I just learned like so much about the war,

about like how it impacted the city.

And the ripple effects of it up until today, it's one of those cities where you

can't travel there and not learn about it because it's the fabric of the city.

It's everywhere.

You see the evidence everywhere.

And I also remember being surprised at how open people

there were about talking about it.

Mm-hmm.

I talked with like a lot of like guides who were honestly like not much

older than me who just like shared their experience of living through it.

So yeah, it had a huge impact on me and.

I've been thinking about going back and I've also been thinking

like more people should go there.

You should write a

Kattie Laur: whole piece for Lonely Planet.

Lonely

Erin Hynes: Planet.

Send your people, they, they reach out to my people, which is Katie.

Okay, so we've talked about 2023 travel, but this was a big

year because after a very long.

An unwanted break.

Yes.

In travel.

You and I both got to revive our love of it this year, so we

both went on a few epic trips.

So tell me two travel highlights and something you learned.

Kattie Laur: Okay, let me collect my thoughts for a second.

The only place that I traveled to this year was Madeira Island,

uh, which is a Portuguese island just to the west of Morocco.

So no, it is not in the azos.

Multiple people asked me that question every time I told them that.

I went there and I like, one of the coolest things

about Madeira Island was how.

How different it truly is from the Portuguese mainland and what people know

of Portugal or what people experience in, I think mainland Portugal, it's

not super, super different, but they have like all these unique little.

Characteristics that I've been learning about over the last, like ever since

we've gone, for example, the drink of the island is called Pancha and

you cannot get that in the mainland.

And Pancha is basically just like a fruit juice frosted with honey.

And then they use this specific Madeira rum that I think is made from sugar cane.

But it's not the same as Madeira wine.

It's like its own special rum that they make on the island.

And then also we had a very fun experience.

I've told this story not on the podcast before, I don't think, where we watched

Anthony Bourdain before we went.

Oh.

And we watched Anthony Bourdain's, uh, layover in Lisbon and he eats this like

pork sandwich with mustard in Lisbon somewhere and has like, It just looked

so good and Mark and I were like, oh, we can't go to, can't wait to go to Portugal

and get this pork sandwich with mustard.

And we get onto Madeira Island and they don't like sell pork anywhere.

They just, they don't make that sandwich.

And we were looking for it for like the entire week.

And finally we found this restaurant that had a big pig on the sign.

So we went in and asked if they made them on the island

or we could get them anywhere.

And he's like, no, I don't even know what you're talking about.

I've never heard of that.

So one of the things that will stick with me forever from Portugal,

from Madeira Island was the Prego.

Excuse my accent, but is it is a sandwich that we could get

everywhere, all over the island.

It was great.

It was basically like, uh, it was made with this very unique

bread too, to Madeira Island.

Like there's so many cute little nuanced things that make.

Madeira Island, like what it is.

I honestly think it should have been on the list too.

Cause it's just mm-hmm.

They have everything this, this island has like hiking and mountains and

natural swimming pools and a cocktail area and just so much history and

it's just so cute and so beautiful.

And you can travel the whole thing in like four hours.

And then once you get to the other side of an i, the island, it's

like a totally different climate.

So there's like a sunny climate, there's like a super rainy climate.

It's.

I think I like, I got everything I needed to get out of Madeira Island,

so it wouldn't be a place that I'm like, must go back immediately.

But if I was invited to go back, I would 1000% go.

So do it.

That's my spiel.

I love going back to places.

Okay.

So enough about my highlights cuz it's all just a big advertisement

for Madeira Island at this point.

Tourism Board hit me up.

Uh, so tell me about your travel highlights and what you learned.

Any takeaways?

Or you can just go on a big tangent like I did.

Erin Hynes: I'm gonna say what everyone knows I'm gonna say, and that's Iceland.

Kattie Laur: Shocker.

Erin Hynes: And that's all I'm gonna say because I literally can't put

into words like how amazing it was.

I just, I need to go

Kattie Laur: back.

It looks so beautiful right now.

One of my favorite TV shows is in Iceland and I was like, oh wait, no there.

Erin, the recent season of The Amazing Race was just in Iceland and they did

like a ice wall climbing thing, so I'm just saying two things you love.

I

Erin Hynes: would've been so good at that challenge, cuz I rock

Kattie Laur: climb.

I know.

You would've crushed

Erin Hynes: it.

I would've crushed it.

No pun intended.

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know if I've said this before.

I've probably said it before, but I'm gonna say it again.

Pictures just do not do Iceland justice.

Nothing does it justice.

I really went there being like, my expectations are high because

Instagram makes it look so amazing.

I.

Literally like I don't have words.

Like it's just, you have to see it.

You have to see it.

The pictures don't do it justice.

Even though like perfectly edited, edited Instagram photos, like you just, and I

think what blew my mind is you could fly into Iceland with no plan and just get in

a car and drive, and your mind would be blown, like from morning till dusk every

single day, just looking out the window.

I've just never seen landscapes like that.

And it, it's, it feels like you're on another planet.

So yeah, definitely Iceland.

Huge highlight.

But so was Belize and I wanna talk about one specific

experience that we had in Belize.

The entire trip was amazing, but something that like really stood out

to us was this trip that we did a day trip to Caral, which is an ancient mind

city that's pretty far into the jungle.

Getting to it was like no joke.

We were basically off-roading on this, um, bumpy road in a truck for

like an hour and a half to get there.

It's very close to the border of Guatemala, but the benefit of

it being hard to get to is that there's not a lot of tourists there.

Mm-hmm.

And.

It's this incredible mind site that dates back over 2000 years, and what

blew my mind about it is the guide that we had worked on the excavation,

his name was Leo, and he had so much to tell us about, like the process of

discovering and excavating the site.

And he told us that the city is.

Massive.

Like the, the part that you see is only a small percentage of the whole site.

They know for a fact that it stretches across at least 17 kilometers whoa.

Of jungle, and they've documented or like mapped about 5,000 structures

and they suspect that there's over 30,000 structures like spread out

leftover from this Mayan city.

And our guide was so amazing.

Like Leo, from the moment he picked us up was just like so fun.

And we just loved him because like he had unmatched knowledge of this site.

Like I learned so much from him.

We had so many questions and he was able to answer all of them.

And it was just like he was so passionate about it, which made us excited about it.

And I just left with this sense of like, oh my gosh, like history is just so.

Amazing.

And to think like about the civilization living here like 2000 years ago, I

just, ugh, like planet Earth blows my mind and humanity just blows my mind.

But also I.

Leo like told us so much about like his life in Belize and told us so much about

like the culture of Belize, and especially about how like Belize is such a melting

pot of different cultures and languages.

So we learned a lot like from him about Carole, but also just about

like life in Belize, which was.

Really awesome and because like this was such a hard place to get

to, it was only us and two other people in the, in the truck with him.

So it was such a small group.

Like we really got to like get close with Leo and chat with him a lot.

So,

Kattie Laur: So I really wanted to do this thing I found online.

It is a travel personality quiz.

It's from Jessie on a journey.

I haven't taken it.

Okay.

Erin Hynes: I'm doing it right now.

Are you,

Kattie Laur: uh, okay.

If you're getting started, I'll get started.

Erin Hynes: Okay.

I'm done.

Kattie Laur: Oh.

Oh, okay.

I got my answer.

Okay.

Erin Hynes: I'm curious what your answer is.

Kattie Laur: Mine doesn't seem like a travel personality.

What is it?

Is it travel style?

Mine is unique road trip.

A unique road trip is calling your name.

You love to explore on your timeline and know that the journey can be just

as fun as the destination itself.

Erin Hynes: I do think that that, that matches you.

I wouldn't say it's like your entire travel personality, but

you're definitely like road

Kattie Laur: trip vibes.

I mean, you and I have only traveled road trips together.

So like what is my travel style in your perspective?

Erin Hynes: I think of you as like an adventurer, I guess.

Like, I'm trying to think of what that means, but adventure in the

sense that like you enjoy nature, you're, you love to rough it.

You're willing to like travel long distances.

Yeah, it's pretty broad, but I feel like everyone's travel

personality is broad like that.

Maybe not everyone's, it's true because kind of like you, I don't feel like

I can really be fit into one box.

Yeah.

And I will say this, I think like I'm a pretty, I'm a mixture of things.

Like I love visiting cities, but I also love like roughing it in nature.

All of the trips we do are like quite different from each other, but I do

know people who are pretty like, like I know people who just wanna go to like

a European city and that's their vibe and they're very like married to it.

So yeah, I think you,

Kattie Laur: you and I plan very similar trips in that there's always

sort of a pattern between like getting a good amount of time in a

city and getting a good amount of time, like outdoors and kind of like.

In a more zen sort of space.

Erin Hynes: Mm-hmm.

Totally.

Okay.

So my result was cultural immersion.

Kattie Laur: Ooh, okay.

What does the little description say?

Erin Hynes: The best type of trip for you is one where you can

immerse yourself in local culture.

You love to gain a deeper understanding of the destinations

you visit, including their history, language, customs and cuisine.

I mean, that's accurate except for the cuisine part.

Because I only get to smell it.

Kattie Laur: I mean, that immediately makes me think of

the story that you've told.

Well, basically the picture that you've painted in my brain multiple times of

you being, I think in Jordan and just sitting in the little coffee shops and

people watching, and also that little, um, bar that you went to in, in Cuba

and you just talked to the bartender there and became best friends, and

then he took you to like a local party that is very much an errand vibe.

Literally us going to Allora in Ontario this summer and finding out that we

should go to the Fergus fall fair and we just went to the Fergus fall Fair.

It was great.

Erin Hynes: Yeah.

You just do what everyone does.

Kattie Laur: Yeah, I love it.

That's very much an Erin Travel vibe from my experience.

Erin Hynes: Yeah, I would say that's definitely accurate.

It's funny cuz like when we were in Belize, Everyone says

not to go to Belize City.

So we didn't, but we had to transit through Belize City and when we did,

I was like, ah, I wish we were going to gonna hang out in Belize City.

Also, can I just say, If you go to Jordan, Jordan's getting more popular,

so I know people are gonna go.

Don't overlook Amman.

Luke and I went back to Amman twice because it's just an

incredible city and people like fly there and immediately leave.

If you're going to Jordan, don't do that.

Hang out in Amman.

It's a great city.

That's my Ted talk.

Kattie Laur: Okay, Erin, let's talk about what's coming up for the show,

because realistically, we only have two episodes left of season five.

Uh, and then what's next for us next year, I guess?

Yeah,

Erin Hynes: I mean, I'll start with a little teaser for the last two episodes of

the season because they're both so great.

We're doing an episode about indigenous tourism in Canada.

Which we've covered before, but it was time.

It'd been, it'd been a while.

So I'm really excited that we have covered this again and this was a

Kattie Laur: totally different conversation,

Erin Hynes: in my opinion for sure.

And then we also have an episode with Amanda, which

Kattie Laur: I'm really excited about.

Very good friend of the pod, Amanda Kendall.

That was also such a fun conversation and ugh, she's the type

Erin Hynes: of person that I can imagine meeting.

In a hostile dorm room and just becoming like best fast friends

immediately and staying in touch for the next like 50 years.

Yes, and we didn't meet in a hostile dorm, but we're still gonna stay

in touch for the next 50 years.

Okay, so season five will end at the end of January.

Mm-hmm.

But don't worry, I'll pack a pals when we're on break.

We're still gonna share, um, some content.

We'll have some bonus episodes and we'll rebroadcast probably some older

episodes, maybe with like a new intro just to talk about, like updates to them.

And then we're thinking that season six will come out in the spring.

I'm not gonna say a specific date or month because I don't

wanna set any expectations, but it'll probably be in the spring.

Do you wanna highlight

Kattie Laur: some of the episodes that we're gonna be doing?

I.

Erin Hynes: Yeah, there's a, there's gonna be some good ones.

So we've already booked a couple interviews.

There's gonna be one where we chat about how travel media can sometimes

romanticize remote and rural destinations.

We'll talk about why that happens and why it's bad.

And we're also gonna chat with the creators behind a documentary that came

out this year called The Last Tourist.

I'm not gonna say more about this.

I'm just gonna say go watch the documentary and then listening

to this episode will be awesome.

So Little Homework Alpaca Palace,

Kattie Laur: but it's the holiday break.

Erin Hynes: Or don't watch it.

You've got plenty of.

We're also gonna talk more in depth about what makes responsible

travel a social movement.

And I also think like in season six, we're gonna interrogate like what

responsible travel is a little bit more.

So I've been thinking a lot about like interrogating the concept of responsible

travel cuz like it's the name of our podcast, but I, I worry a lot that like I.

It puts too much like personal responsibility and individual

responsibility on people, when really what we need to be doing is

like interrogating the industry and thinking about how to shift towards

like a more sustainable model.

So that's something we're gonna talk about in more detail.

In season six.

And then we're also, we're gonna unpack the language that we use in travel,

and you're gonna get a little teaser of this because we do talk about this a

bit in the indigenous tourism episode.

That will come out in January.

But next season we'll do a full episode about this.

Kattie Laur: Well, Erin, happy New Year.

Oh, happy New Year.

Do you have any big plans for the new year that you wanna tell me about?

My only goal is to travel.

I think that's a great goal, Erin.

I respect that goal.

We're gonna

Erin Hynes: travel together.

We're gonna do a big trip next year, actually, and I don't

think we should say what it is.

I think we should keep it under wraps cuz it's super exciting.

Kattie Laur: Yeah, I'm so excited.

And

Erin Hynes: it's like a bucket list trip of mine.

I'm very excited.

Kattie Laur: Yes, and we are hoping to record some really fun podcast

content around that trip too, so that's gonna be super exciting.

Erin Hynes: What are your goals for 2023?

I

Kattie Laur: don't know, maybe, uh, find work-life balance again.

Erin Hynes: Well, it is that time of year when you give people gifts.

Katie, I have a gift for you.

I'm very excited to give it to you, but that's off topic, alpaca pal.

If you wanna give us a gift this year, you can leave a review about the show.

Those are always really exciting for us.

Like we get a little email, we open it up.

We talk back and forth about how happy the review made us.

So yeah, that's like the ultimate gift you could give us.

You could also tell other people about our podcast or share it on your social

channels or just tell someone about the show, cuz that always goes a long way.

And then, If you wanna financially help us out, you can follow us

on Patreon and support us there.

I think the lowest tier is $5 a month and it makes a huge difference.

So we appreciate anyone who wants to hop over there and help us out.

Should we get a crump at meow in here?

Can we hold on.

She's gonna pur can you gotta tell me if you can hear it.

Kattie Laur: Okay.

I can't

Erin Hynes: hear it.

Kattie Laur: Oh my God.

Erin, we should release a whole episode of that.

Just looped for 30 minutes.

Oh my God.

Erin Hynes: That would be like therapy for me.