Erin: Almost half of people living in Toronto are immigrants.

This means that many people in this city have roots in another country and

another culture, and as Toronto and Canada continues to grow, this will be the

case for many folks across the country.

For immigrants and the generations that follow them, traveling home

can be a special experience.

When I went to the Netherlands, the country that my Oma and Opa

immigrated from in the 1950s, I was overwhelmed with a feeling that I

haven't felt traveling anywhere else.

There was a sense of familiarity because of the environment my parents

fostered at home in the Netherlands.

Dutch words were familiar, The foods were familiar, the traditions were familiar.

And of course I was welcomed by many relatives who knew me, my mom, my

grandparents, and they were able to share stories with me about my family

and their history in the Netherlands.

Traveling back to the Netherlands is always an idyllic experience for me.

But for others, there's a range of emotion learning and conflicted feelings when

traveling back to a place that their parents, grandparents, or generations even

further behind, fled or left by choice.

Today we're gonna unpack what it means to travel home with Leah from

the Ticket to Anywhere podcast.

Leah is a slow traveler who has lived, worked and taught throughout

South America and Australia.

This is Alpaca My Bags, the Responsible Travel Podcast, here

to help you travel in a way that's better for you and for the planet.

I'm Erin Hynes, travel writer, accompanied as always by my producer, Katie Laur.

Okay, but first, Katie, I know you have some thoughts on what's been

going on over in the TikTok sphere.

Can you spill?

Kattie: Yes.

So if you follow us on social media, you'll probably know that.

We post responsible travel content, stuff that matches with our show, stuff that

we've learned on our show, just stuff that is complimentary to this podcast.

What has been going on on all the social media platforms, mainly on TikTok and

Instagram is that I, and you, have both been noticing that there is a lot of

offense being taken to our content.

A lot of passive aggressive replies to responsible travel tips.

For example, on one post that we made about planes' carbon

emissions, someone was like, 'Okay, well I'll just never fly again'.

And then on another Instagram post that we did, it was a Reel, we listed out

all these different ways that travel privilege exists and all the different

kinds of it, and we got a lot of comments on that one that were not stoked about

this content, including comments like, 'this was the biggest, nobody asked for

it video I've ever wasted my time on'.

And why do you think this is Erin?

Why do you think people are getting so riled up about our content ? I

have stats to unpack why, but I'm just curious about your opinion.

Erin: I just have to say sometimes I'm scared to open our Instagram.

It's funny because when I posted the travel Privilege one I, I knew, and

the second I opened up Instagram like a couple hours later, I was like, Oh no.

Kattie: I will say, like I'll add.

We've had a lot of comments on that content too, of people being like,

"Thank you for putting this out there.

This is so important".

People are happy we're talking about this stuff, but it just seems to be like.

Both ends of the spectrum, uh, are really commenting on our content, which is

people that are totally offended, and then people who really love this stuff.

It's funny that I don't really, we don't really notice too many com

comments from people that are like, "I never knew this", or like, "This

is new for me", kind of thing.

Which is like an interesting dynamic.

But

Erin: I mean, to go back to your original question, why do I think this is?

I think that, first of all, the concept of anything being responsible isn't very fun.

So I get that.

Kattie: Responsible is not a very sexy word.

We'll be honest about that.

Erin: But I think it's also like, and I've noticed this actually in discussions

I've had with people about privilege, not just in the context of travel, but

like especially when I was doing like my feminist work at York University,

people are really uncomfortable with talking about privilege,

especially when they have it, and I understand that because I don't know.

You're born with it.

You feel like you can't change anything about it, and so people just feel like

personally offended about something that they shouldn't feel offended about.

Like it's really hard to explain to people, like, this isn't about

you as an individual necessarily.

It's about like a system that we need to change.

But yeah, I do find like anything related to privilege tends to set people

off, and I just think it's because it's like, ugh, I don't even know.

Kattie: Don't worry, I have stats to tell you about.

Erin: You do?

Okay.

Kattie: We'll unpack it.

Erin: Like why are people offended?

I don't know.

Kattie: Let me tell you.

Okay.

I did a bit of digging.

So it's funny because typically the narrative is that people like us who I

would consider more socially conscious people, people normally label people like

us, "the snowflakes", but in actuality, everyone is offended these days.

On a recent survey that I read about, actually only a third of

Americans describe themselves as quote unquote politically correct.

So only a third of people are really comfortable considering that

they are maybe privileged . Um,

Erin: Hold on, hold on.

Can I just tell you something that I do that people hate?

Kattie: Yes.

Erin: I love asking men if they are a feminist.

Kattie: That's the ultimate question.

Erin: That's like how you know.

That's how you know what kind of man they are.

Kattie: Yes.

Yes it is.

So in 2019, 81% of Americans in a survey of 13,000 people felt that

people are too offended these days.

So everyone thinks that everyone's too offended, regardless of what

spectrum, political spectrum ar you're on, regardless of anything.

So I read up on why experts think that people are more easily offended

these days, um, because I feel like over the last maybe, I don't know,

maybe since 2016, since a certain someone normalized, uh, bad rhetoric.

Erin just rolled her eyes.

I feel like obviously there's a lot more conversations around

free speech, yada, yada, yada.

And there's a lot of bad things happening in our world.

So here's what some of the main reasons that stood out to me were why people

are getting so offended these days.

And I think that apply to our content.

So people have more anxiety, people have more guilt, people have more

insecurities, and more past traumas that they are comparing today to.

So what are your initial thoughts on this?

I mean, thoughts on a lot of these reasons, but what do

you, what stood out to you?

Erin: My initial thought is just in the context of the podcast, but you and I

have always debated like what to call our pod, like what our podcast is about.

And there were many debates about like, do we call it ethical

travel, responsible travel?

Do we not call it anything at all, like related to, Do we

just call it a travel podcast?

I don't know.

And our debate about this was because, I think that using terms like responsible

and ethical can make people feel like they're doing something wrong.

It's hard to make content about this that doesn't come off as preachy, and we

are hyper aware of this and like, that's why I try to always emphasize like, I am

not perfect and I'm learning like this podcast, like for both of us it's just

about learning, about being curious, about like how to travel in a better way.

Kattie: I think on that note, for me, the big theme here was around

guilt and feeling like a bad person.

And I, I think that's where the worry that we have about coming

across as preachy comes from because.

Let's be real.

I, I personally think that a lot of these comments that get left that are deeply

offended is because they, in a sense, feel guilty for not maybe traveling in

a way that we're suggesting or feeling like they never traveled that way, and

therefore they've done harm on our planet or on people and that kind of thing.

And that's something that's like hard to come to terms with.

And we're not even saying on, on this content that we're putting

out that there is a right way or a wrong way to do things.

We're saying that there's a more conscious way to do things with, especially with

the travel privilege Instagram reel, coming to terms with privilege is

something that's still difficult for them and makes them feel like a bad person

because of the history that's behind all of these privileges that people have.

Erin: Actually, I do think that part of the problem is that it's really hard to

make it clear that like the undertone of criticism isn't against individual people.

It's typically against a system.

I mean, I encountered this all the time, like in my feminist studies work,

like people take it personally when you talk about the patriarchy, but

the the point is that the patriarchy is not about individual people.

It's a better collective and about a system.

The problem is that system can't change unless people get on

board at an individual level.

And I think that's part of like the nuance of responsible tourism.

It's like individual people can do a lot, like mainly make this a conversation,

but the real work that needs to be done, and we've said this time and time again,

is like within the industry itself.

So it's kind of more about like encouraging people to build up a voice so

that we can influence the industry itself.

But it's just hard, like, and I've commented to people this on TikTok

and on Instagram, like when people seem offended that, with a 15

second video, it's really hard to include like the nuance of a topic.

It's really, really hard and usually what we're just trying to do is like

hook people and get people interested so that they'll explore more.

Kattie: I feel like anxiety is a big piece too, right?

Because there's a lot of things that people have anxieties around, especially

when it comes to responsible travel and sustainability and climate change.

So there's no one answer for how to travel in a more sustainable way other

than just maybe don't travel ever at all.

And, obviously that's where people jump to, right?

And that one person that I explained, they're like, Well,

what else am I supposed to do?

Just never travel again?

Like, and there's all this anxiety around it and guilt and all of that.

All those feelings I feel like just are so hyper part of our conversations in travel

now that are important for people to talk about because we can't continue traveling

the way that we have been for a long time.

I mean, for us, like I'll clarify the purpose of our responsible content,

like for me, which is that with more information comes more understanding,

and when lots of people have more understanding, you can make choices

that are better for everyone.

Erin: Mm-hmm.

The goal is definitely not to make people feel guilty about the fact that

they rode an elephant 10 years ago.

Kattie: And maybe you did shoot a rocket launcher in Cambodia, and that's something

that we can talk about in private.

Erin: Well, before we dive into heritage tourism, I wanted to tell you

that we have a shared love of coffee.

And it's funny because my partner Luke doesn't drink coffee at all and like

does not understand how I can't function in the morning unless, I have it.

So when we travel, it's like always a thing because the first

thing in the morning it's like, okay, Erin has to have coffee.

And not just coffee, but like good coffee.

Leah: Yes.

Erin: And so it's always a struggle.

But yeah, I was thinking about the most interesting coffee I ever had, and it

was probably in Vietnam because I had egg coffee, um, which is a specialty

in Hanoi, so they make it with egg yolk, sugar and condensed milk.

And it sounds kind of gross, like I, I don't know about you, but eggs

kind of psychologically freak me out.

But I still tried this coffee and I really liked it.

Like the egg made like a nice, um, texture for the coffee.

Leah: I bet.

Maybe like creamy and then it has your protein too.

Erin: Yeah, exactly.

So I know you love coffee too, and I wanted to ask what the best coffee

you've had on your travels was.

Leah: Oh my gosh.

You know, I think for me, I equate coffee and cafes with like comfort,

relaxing in a cafe or taking in the view, taking in what's going on around you.

Kind of immersing yourself in the culture for just a few minutes

while you're having that cup.

So it's hard to say some of the best coffee that I've had.

Some of those memorable coffees.

I think actually, one of them was in, um, Austin, Texas, because they do

this thing called, there's a, there's a cafe out there, I can't remember.

I think it has a seven in the name.

I'm so sorry.

Can't remember.

It's called like a sidecar.

So they serve the latte or the cappuccino, but they also add an

extra shot on the side so you can taste the espresso and it's pure form.

For like $4 and I'm like, that's brilliant.

And why is it so inexpensive?

? Erin: Okay.

I will actually name drop a cafe that's in our neighborhood here in Toronto because

they do something kind of special as well.

Okay.

It's called Voodoo Child.

So if ever you're in Toronto, check out Voodoo Child.

Cuz when they serve an espresso, just like a straight espresso shot.

I love it because they serve it on this sort of wooden platter and you

get your shot, but then you also get a tiny glass of, uh, bubbly water.

And it's just a nice little like, feature of the, the serving that I like.

Leah: I think that's a thing now, isn't it?

Like adding sparkling water to coffee?

I don't know, I saw TikTok on it or something.

Erin: Yeah.

Leah: Um, another like last thing, another coffee that I loved that

actually warmed my heart was like an iced, like a Vietnamese type coffee,

but I had it in Thailand and it was my last day of being in Thailand.

I was staying at Brick House hostel.

I walked literally down the block to go to the first like mom-and-pop

restaurant right there, and there was a coffee shop inside of it too.

I don't even remember the name of it, but because I was like, Yes,

supporting local business, this place looks like it's popping because

there were only Thai people there.

There weren't any expats or foreigners there.

I was like, Okay, this is very clearly popular, and they made honestly one of

the best Vietnamese coffees I'd ever had.

So I was like, Ugh, I'm gonna bookmark this place and come back here anytime.

Yeah, it's close to Brick House hostel in Chang Mai.

Erin: Noting that.

Okay, so to get into our chat about what it means to travel home, I

wanted to start by asking you about what the word home means to you.

Cuz I feel like there's a really literal sense to the word.

Like, my home is this apartment that I live in in Toronto, but there's also a

more abstract, um, word for home, I think, which to me is kind of like a feeling and

it's a little more transient, I would say.

I didn't grow up in Toronto in my eight years living here,

it's definitely become my home.

But it's funny cuz I don't think of Toronto as my only home.

I feel really at home in Orillia, which is where my parents live.

It's a little town north of Toronto and I also feel like a bit of

my home is in the Netherlands.

Just because that's where my heritage is from and I've

also spent time living there.

So that's sort of my low down on my thoughts on the word home.

And I wanted to ask, when you think of home, what do you think of?

Leah: First off, I love that you have several different homes that means, you

know, you've made yourself comfortable and felt loved in multiple places

in the world, so that's really cool.

But for me, I really do think Los Angeles as a whole, it's home, is

home like Southern California is home.

I was born, raised, and even educated here, and in between every

travel stint I come back to LA.

So, I mean, people have a lot of things to say, to say about LA but I love it

for its own reasons and I do think it's easier, you know, if you're native,

you, you know, the ins and outs of it.

Everywhere I've lived for an extended period of times that includes Argentina,

Peru, Columbia, and Australia, I do consider those home as well.

I mean I was there for either only a few months to a little

over a year, but those places all definitely have a chunk of my heart.

So my parents are from the Philippines.

They immigrated from the Philippines to the United States.

So I don't actually, I'm first generation Filipina American.

I don't actually consider the Philippines home.

After my parents, it's been almost 45 years since they've lived in

the Philippines, so I don't think they consider it home either.

But one day I would love to, you know, either becomes immersed in the

Philippines, keep traveling back there, or buy property there to the point

where I can actually call it home.

I am proud of the fact that it is where my parents are from, but I don't

think I can technically call it a home.

Erin: Mm-hmm.

, Yeah.

We're gonna get into that a bit more because I, I kind of feel

the same wave at the Netherlands.

And I'm actually like curious about the fact that you say your parents

might not even think of the Philippines as home in the same way anymore.

And I guess when I think to my own experience, a lot of people are shocked

when I, I don't identify much with the city that I grew up in, and it's just

because I never liked it that much.

And I left years ago.

But I always thought if you had a home in another country, that you would

always still feel that connection to it, which I'm sure they do, but maybe

not feeling it as though it's home.

I don't know.

That's curious to me.

Leah: Yeah, it's so interesting because they came at, like my dad joined the

Navy, the US Navy, and they were only taking a bunch of select Filipinos to

come over from the Philippines to the us so he was kind of, I guess one of

the chosen ones, and that was his ticket in the seventies to get out of the

Philippines when a lot of Southeast Asians countries were going through political

warfare, uh, civil unrest and whatnot.

So that was kind of his ticket out.

And even when they came, they met, actually met in the us.

They didn't meet in the Philippines, my parents.

And when they got here, they actually both gave up their Philippines citizenship.

So to me it was like all these things that happened in their lives that

like, really, I'm like, Wow, you really didn't wanna be there anymore.

You got out, you brought your whole family to the us, you gave up your citizenship,

you found jobs here immediately, bought housing here five, 10 years later.

It's so interesting.

Home I think for them is definitely California now.

Erin: I get that, you know, my grandparents did the same thing when

they came, and I, because I've always sort of begrudgingly been like,

Why don't I have Dutch citizenship?

Right?

And my mom has always said, Oh, it's because your grand.

Gave up their passports when they came because they really wanted

to commit to being Canadian.

But also, I just have to go back to your comment about loving Southern California

and LA because I have the same thing with Toronto where a lot of people

in Ontario kind of hate on Toronto.

Every time I've gone traveling for an extended period of time, I can think and

remember the feeling of coming back to the city and just feeling this like warmth as

I like go back into the center of Toronto.

Cuz I just like, there's just something I love about this city so much.

Leah: I think people hate on big cities, Erin, to be honest.

Like I can't tell you even when my travels, people hate it doesn't matter

if the big city isn't Africa, South America, Europe, it could be the

best big city and there will still be a group of people that hate on it.

So yeah, it's so true.

Erin: So I was curious about how many Canadians are third

gen, which is what I am.

My grandparents immigrated here.

So they were first gen.

My mom was born in Canada, as second gen, and then I came along.

So according to statistics Canada, as of 2018, 60% of Canadians are

third gen or more, and the other 40% are first or second gen.

And I was even more surprised by that.

I thought the figure of 40% first and second gen was interesting cuz

that's almost half of our population that has very recent ties to

another country culture or home.

So I know that your Motherland is the Philippines.

Could you tell us a bit about your familial connection to the Philippines

and how that connection has influenced your life growing up in the US?

Leah: Yeah, so my mother has seven other, sorry, six other siblings,

and they came over here in pairs along with their parents, and

that was in the early seventies.

And now all of my mother's side resides in Southern California.

It's crazy.

We're all within like a two hour radius of each other, so it's awesome.

Erin: Oh, that's amazing.

Leah: Yeah, it's really nice.

And then my father's side, yeah, like I said, he made the cut into the US Navy as

one, a few Filipinos, and then he was able to bring his family over one at a time,

and he's the oldest of four siblings, so he brought them and his parents over.

And then my parents actually didn't meet, They met in LA, they

didn't meet in the Philippines.

So one of my aunties on my dad's side moved, uh, they live in Montreal actually.

So yeah, they're Canadian because, you know, it's interesting, Erin,

they went to Canada because Canada would get them jobs and citizenship

10 years faster than the US could.

Erin: Oh, honestly, I think that's still true cuz I think you can

citizen citizenship here faster.

America.

It's hard.

It's hard.

Citizenship there.

Leah: Yeah, and so honestly, all I have in the Philippines as far as

extended family is cousins of cousins.

My stepmom's, whole entire side of the family is still there.

She's the only one that came to America actually back in like the seventies.

So, as far as a lot of like immediate family and first cousins, most

of them are in the US and Canada.

Filipinos we're this kind of culture where everyone's a cousin, everyone's

an auntie, everyone's an uncle.

So when I go back, it's like these people aren't technically like my

blood, but it feels like they are

. Erin: I get that because.

Actually, like all the family I have in the Netherlands now are

pretty like distant family, like cousins of cousins and such.

But for some reason the connections between my family

here and them are very tight.

And I wonder if it has to do with like the distance thing that you

just maintain that connection.

So I know that growing up in my house with my parents, uh, there was a lot of

Dutch language and food and traditions that were part of my daily life.

And my mom definitely put a lot of effort into teaching my siblings and I about the

country that her parents had come from.

It was very clear that my mom had a lot of love for the Netherlands and wanted

us to be raised with that same love.

So that heritage was definitel part of my identity growing up,

and I would say it still is.

How did your Filipino heritage factor into your cultural or

national identity growing up?

Like did you feel Filipino in your day to day home life?

Leah: So this is an interesting question because I think in retrospect I would say

no, which is kind of crazy considering, you know, I'm a first gen Filipina.

But I'll tell you why.

My parents split when I was very, very young and my mother remarried a

Caucasia, white man, my stepfather, who I love very, very much.

And so I essentially grew up in a half caucasian household.

So there's only one parent implementing all the traditions.

Yeah, all the language, which I don't speak any Tagalog.

I barely understand it.

I can understand if there's context clues, right.

So I feel like the culture is really lost on me and my siblings to be honest.

And.

To add to that, I grew up in a predominantly white town.

So a lot of culture shock came to me when I moved down to Long Beach

and went to Long Beach State for college, and it was like, wow, so many

other types of Asians in the world.

Like this is actually embarrassing to admit, but like

I'm not afraid to admit it.

This is my reality.

Like I was so blinded to, I guess the diversity growing up.

Like I, I knew obviously I'm like, I look very different.

But the traditions that we kept in my family were pretty subtle.

And to us, because we were still children and this, you know, it was normal to

just take your shoes off in your house.

Also, why you wearing shoes in the house?

Shoes are dirty.

Little things like that that we were just like, this is normal.

Like, why doesn't everyone take their shoes off in the house?

Or like how we have like a special greeting in the

Philippines as a sign of respect.

You like take your elders hand and you like put on your forehead

and it's like a sign of respect.

And so we did that growing up.

We said hi and bye to everyone in the room.

You know, we ate the laton, like the fried pig roast for

every holiday, every occasion.

So small, kind of almost like non noticeable traditions.

And then when I became an adult and started realizing that I missed out

on a of my Filipino culture growing up, there's no one to blame for it.

Like my mom literally came from the Philippines was

trying to like survive, right?

And provide for a family.

So she wasn't really thinking.

She's like, just raise them to be good humans.

Like who care, You know?

It's hard to like, Kind of keep, if she moved here, it's like, how is she

expected to kind of keep the traditions of like where she came from, if she

was trying to leave and she left.

You know, I talk to her about it every once in a while, but now as an adult

I kind of go back on my own and figure out like what I've been missing,

what, what could I have grown up?

And as far as like Filipino culture.

Erin: But also I feel like there is a lot of pressure.

I don't know if there's a difference between Canada and the US, but I think

there's a lot of pressure to assimilate when you move to a new country.

And like I know in some households that translates to not wanting to pass

down the traditions because there's a thought that like it'll make it

easier for the next generation if they grew up like fully immersed in

like American or Canadian culture.

Leah: Well, and the Philippines is interesting because English

is a national language.

So first and foremost, the fact that like a lot of first generations don't

speak Tagalog, or they only understand it, or they only understand very

little is because of like previous colonization in the Philippines.

Like they've been speaking English there for like 120 years.

Erin: Wow.

Leah: I know.

I feel like it's kind of crazy cuz it's, if you meet Filipinos, they're kind of

the fastest to assimilate into a Western or North American culture, if you will.

We already speak a lot, a ton of English there.

It's, it's interesting.

I just feel like when you come to the US it's like, okay, now we

can just finish the assimilation.

. Erin: Yeah.

. I actually didn't know that.

I haven't been to the Philippines, so I didn't know that English was

such a dominant language there.

Leah: Yeah, it's, most people speak it actually.

Um, except maybe like the much older generations.

Erin: I also just have to go back to your comment about taking shoes

off because it took me a second to register that cuz I was like, what?

You are supposed to take your shoes off when you go in the house?

Cause that's Canadian, I guess like in Canada.

You do that?

Canadian.

Oh yeah.

Like you never keep your shoes on.

Leah: That's amazing.

Erin: But I didn't know in the US that you are supposed to keep them on.

You are.

Leah: I think it's like the media.

No, the media.

You know, always like the movies, people were always walking

around with their shoes on.

Erin: Oh, it's true.

They do movies.

They do.

If you come into Canadian house, you take your shoes off.

Leah: That is a cool cultural aspect that I didn't know about Canada.

Erin: Honestly.

It's probably cuz of the weather.

Right?

Leah: That's true.

You'd be treking.

Ice, whatever's melting, whatnot.

Erin: Kattie, do you know what you would absolutely need if you went traveling

to Denmark to visit your family?

Kattie: I sure do.

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So I know, especially from talking to other people that we've had on Alpaca My

bags, that identifying with a heritage outside of the country you're born

into can also complicate how you feel about the place that you were born.

And, sorry, I think I said Filipino before, is the correct way, Filipina?

Leah: I think if you're, if you're referring to the

culture, Filipino is fine.

I think if you're referring to me, you could say Filipina, but I'm

not offended if you say Filipino.

Erin: Okay.

So could you describe how you're, I don't, I still don't know which way to go.

Filipina identity interacts with or impacts your American identity or like

how they're connected or interconnected.

Leah: I mean, growing up it fused barely.

And I feel that as an adult, I'm able to consciously weave it into

my identity now, even though I've been, I was born and raised here,

it's been, you know, 30 plus years.

So now I try to fuse it more so into my life by purposely learning about it.

Trying to work through all the generational trauma, um, work through

all the cultural nuances and take what I can and what I love and

infuse it into my everyday life.

And maybe if I decide to start a family of my own one day, hopefully

like pass those traditions on.

Because I do feel like, because with the loss of the language, the fact

that my brother and sisters are here.

Like we've, we've lost a lot of it just by being born here

and not speaking the language.

And I don't want that to stop with just us.

So I have a new baby niece and I'm like, Okay, she's a quarter Filipina.

I'm like, That's enough.

We're gonna get you integrated into this culture . Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's much easier to, to kind of weave like my Filipino identity as an adult.

As a kid, I didn't, you know, I wasn't raising myself, it

was my mother raising me.

So I just went by whatever she wanted our lives to be like, and now I can actually

purposely infuse my life with it so.

Erin: Are there things that you're doing like actively to infuse it back in?

Leah: I read about it a lot.

Um, there's even a couple groups that I've joined, like even something as

simple as like a Filipino cooking group just to like keep updated on the recipes.

I bought my niece a little, like first Filipino words

book, and I'm not even kidding.

It's so funny, like, In a year or two she'll be learning, but I will too.

Tiny little things like hanging around more Filipinos and noticing that, okay,

these are the tra traditions and things that we had this similar growing up.

Just going out and and finding whatever I can do, you know, supporting

Filipino business, Of course.

Erin: So when I was 16, uh, my parents put me on a plane to the Netherlands

all by myself to go and meet my extended family, which actually is kind of

funny to think about now cuz like I had never met these people , a lot of them.

And my parents just put me on a plane and they were like,

They'll get you from the airport.

I had been taught so much about the Netherlands and the culture,

and so finally being there, I just remember it feeling weirdly familiar,

but also foreign at the same time.

I'm not fluent in Dutch, but I, I recognize enough of it that I could

like understand some of the signs and read some labels and pick up little bits

of conversation and I could recognize foods and brands, but I couldn't really

like, participate because I didn't have enough of the knowledge to be able to.

It's a weird experience.

So I was hoping you could tell us a bit about your first trip to the Philippines,

how the trip came about, and then how it felt for you going for the first time.

Leah: For years and years, I was telling my parents, All right, let's go.

Because I really wanted to go with them.

I'm like, It doesn't make sense for me to visit your homeland without you.

I want you to be there, you know, and, and show me everything, how you

grew up and what you experienced, and you can teach me things.

And for years it was always one excuse or another.

. I finally told my father, I was like, Hey.

And actually my, my biological father, he goes to the Philippines

probably every couple of years.

My mom hasn't been back in almost 45 years . But I finally told him, I

was like, Dad, um, I'm just gonna go.

And this was like end of 2019.

I was like, Dad, January, 2020, I'm gonna go.

I booked the ticket.

. Yeah.

Yeah.

We know where this is going.

. Yeah, . So he's like, he's like, Oh, okay, okay.

Well actually I'm already gonna be there.

How about you?

And then he starts rattling off all these plans.

He's like, meet us at this wedding in Bacolad.

I'll pay for your flights.

Buy a dress.

I'll reimburse you for your dress and we're gonna go here, here, here.

And I was like, Whoa.

All of a sudden, like, I actually make a move and you have all these plans already.

So , I was really excited cuz I, I was like, you know what?

I don't know what tomorrow or next week or the next month is

gonna be like back in 2020.

I said this, So I was like, I'm gonna go now because if I die tomorrow,

at least I did this thing today.

So I'm like, I'm just gonna go.

I'm tired of waiting for my parents because every year it's gonna be the same.

No, no, no.

I can't go for whatever reason.

So I end up going middle of January.

I spend time there traveling alone, which was fantastic.

Meeting other Filipinos, but also other foreigners, which I still love to do.

And then I was able to spend half the time with my dad, my stepmom, and

her entire extended family out there.

And it was just like a, It was really like a homecoming.

It was.

It was like what my life was growing up, but like amplified.

Everyone was just like loud and loving and trying to feed you all the time.

. And then we went out to like the provinces, which is like the rural

areas, and it was raw, like there was no wifi in some of the towns we went to.

There were just beautiful lakes and lagoons and we were riding around

on motorbikes and sandals like it's just, This is not life back in

the big cities of LA and Toronto.

It was very like freeing.

Yeah.

Erin: Did it feel kind of, It's been like this every time I've gone to

the Netherlands since, but every time I go, even family members that

have never met me but just know of me, I always feel this warmness.

Cuz even if we can't speak the same language, people are just so welcoming

and they just are like happy that someone from their extended family

has come back to the original country.

Yes.

Did you have that same feeling,

? Leah: Oh yes.

It was almost like, oh my gosh, they wanted to treat

me kind of like a celebrity.

I don't know.

Sometimes Filipinos have this fascination with like the US . Yeah.

In a weird way.

Like our pop culture.

Right?

It's, But it's, I mean, if you ever go there, it's seriously, Erin

like infused into so many, so much Filipino culture that it's like

almost hard to tell them apart, right?

Yeah.

But they really gave me the best love and treatment and took me out

and make sure I was comfortable.

So, you know, I did my best to like pay my respects and pay wherever

I could and ask a lot of questions and really spend time getting to

know them and really know, like, the traditions that they have growing

up as a Filipino in the Philippines.

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Cuz I'm like, this is so different for me.

Definitely felt the love every island that I went to, just like you did.

And I think family units like I was when I was listening to your

story, like family units are just very proud of their families.

Right.

Erin: I think that if you grow up second or third gen or first gen, With

cultural traditions from your motherland country, you can kind of build up an

idea of what the home country is like.

It's funny, like I really thought that I wouldn't be culture shocked living there.

And I was.

Like, even the famous Dutch directness, have you heard of this?

Leah: Oh yeah.

Erin: Yeah.

Very direct.

And I lived with three Dutch girls.

It's very Canadian to be very emotional and sensitive to the way that people talk.

We're very passive communicators and Dutch people are the opposite, and so

I would like always have my feelings hurt because they would be very direct

about things about the household, right?

I would go into the the kitchen and say, "Hey, Luke, do you mind doing the dishes?"

Where in the Netherlands, like my roommate would be like, "You didn't do the dishes".

Leah: Yeah.

Or not even you didn't do that.

Just be like, "Hey, do the dishes," . Yeah, right.

, I get that.

Erin: And it was hard to adjust to that.

So little things like that, it was kind of funny.

It impacted me more than I thought it would.

People a lot of times think you get to skip the culture shock in

Europe, but it's not always the case.

So I know now like I have definitely had preconceived ideas of the Netherlands

before I went there that were like simply based off of what my mom had taught me

and the cultural things we did at home.

So I'm curious if being in the Philippines compared to how you'd imagined it or

what you knew of it, like how did it match up with what you were expecting?

Leah: It is interesting cuz thinking back on it now, like throughout this

whole conversation, very tiny things that I'm noticing are, that I used to do

that, they still do in the Philippines.

But then my life kind of morphed into more of like a sim, you know,

into the American everyday culture.

Like for example, I'll give you a small example.

In the shower or in the tub, you, because you don't wanna just let the water run.

Like the Philippines sometimes doesn't have the infrastructure in a lot of

places to just let the water run cuz that's gallons per minute, right.

They don't have like the systems for that.

So we use a literally a bucket called a tabò, and it's literally just a

bucket that you wash yourself with.

So you take the water, put it in a big ass bucket, and then you just

like, Drench yourself with it, and that's how you rinse yourself out.

And then, um, my mom used to collect like the, the buckets from that the casinos

used to give out with their coins and she used to wash it, rinse it out, and

then put it in the shower for us to use.

But in the Philippine and then, yeah, it's so funny.

And, but we stopped doing that, you know, and we became, I don't know, we

got into like junior high or high school and like, you don't need this anymore.

And then the Philippines, like, they still shower that way

as a way to preserve water.

A lot of things that I used to do when I was younger, like they're still doing in

the Philippines for one reason or another.

Mainly, I think a lot of thi, a lot of it is like structural.

I think a lot of it is what I expected it to be and I was

excited to experience that.

It's always curious to me to really go find the locals, live with them

for a few weeks, even a few days, and see how they really, really live.

And it's always interesting comparing lifestyles, whether it's like showering

with a bucket or not, like bucket flushing the toilet or not, you know,

sitting in the middle of the jungle eating versus like sitting in the middle

of your air conditioned kitchen eating.

I just, I knew what I was getting into going to the Philippines and

kind of excited that I got to, to experience it just because it's, it's

a simple life in a lot of places there.

Erin: If you have a, like a favorite memory or two that you

wanna share, what would it be?

Leah: Oh, okay.

I think two favorite , two favorite memories.

Cuz I tell one of them's a tradition, one of them's kind of funny story.

Tradition, and this is kind of cool and I don't know, I don't know if this

is still going on with Covid, maybe.

Maybe only in your close circle of friends, but I, I met these three girls

at a hostel, locals, local Filipinas, and they're like, We'll take you out to

like the food market and then we'll go to this like little bar that has dancing.

I'm like totally down.

Now I have new friends on the island of Sabu, which is one of the

biggest, most populous islands there.

And when we were at the bar, they got like a 40 ounce thing of beer, and then a small

little, maybe like an eight ounce glass.

You each pour a little, one at a time you pour a little into

the glass and then you sip it.

You take your sip and then you share that glass and that beer bottle.

Um, and everyone does the same thing.

And it's pretty much for two reasons: To ensure that no one's poisoning the glass.

And two, that you're focused on like the conversation and being present

rather than like on your phone.

So I kind of love that.

And the Filipinos like massive sharing culture.

We share everything.

Right.

So I thought that was a cool tradition.

I'm like, Oh my God, one 40 ounce bottle of beer, one glass, and we all

take turns like drinking out of it.

This was like like a month before COVID started . Yeah, but I.

It made me feel like close to them.

The fact that I was a complete stranger, even though I am like Filipino American,

they're like, Oh, she's one of us.

I'm a complete stranger.

They just literally picked me up at a hostel.

But the fact that they're like, Well, we trust her enough that we're gonna include

her in this little, like drinking circle.

Erin: Yeah.

I like that.

I like that a lot.

Leah: Yeah.

, Erin: I mean, like when you, I, I definitely have shared drinks with people

before, like, I think it makes sense.

It's cute.

Leah: Definitely, Definitely.

And I do like how it's like the focus is like, like be here and now.

Don't be like on your phone.

Mm-hmm.

, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, . And then the second story I have is about a cockroach . Um, so we

were in my stepmom's hometown of Barro Bo, which is on Sewer Gal del Norte.

Um, and it's like mindenow group of islands, so the south of the

Philippines and her hometown.

It was just installing wifi when I was there, , so it was really like out in the

provinces, like dirt roads everywhere.

They were just opening up their first 711, a few months after I got there.

Um, and 711's big in Asia.

I'm not sure if you know that, but

Erin: Oh yeah.

Massive.

I've talked about it before.

I love 711.

When I was in Asia, I spent too much time here.

Like every time I saw one, I needed to see what snacks they had.

The grilled cheese is amazing.

Leah: Yes, absolutely.

So it was this town that was still developing really.

But they had an amazing river.

A waterfall, a lagoon, a lake, like beautiful nature.

Anyways, my dad and I were staying up late one night watching a movie and I was like,

we're perpendicular couches to each other.

And I saw like a cockroach ru hopping across the tile floor and it was

headed straight for the bedroom.

And I was sharing, cuz the house is tiny, I was sharing a

bedroom with my dad and stepmom.

They were in one bed.

I was in the other.

But I knew in my head my luggage was wide open in that bedroom.

And I'm like to see this cockroach hopping.

And I screamed and I put my feet up.

And my dad, like when he, whenever he goes back to the Philippines, he reverts back

to his like true Filipino roots, right?

So first thing he does tells me, "Shut up Leah, don't scream ." . And

then I'm like, "Oh my God, Dad."

And then like Spider-Man reflexes, I'm not even kidding.

He sprints to the door and slams it shut and the cockroach doesn't get in.

And I'm like, Oh my first off, how did you get to that door so fast?

It's like 15 feet away.

And second off.

Thank you, . And the reason he didn't want me to scream is, well, one, the

house is sleeping, but two, if they were awake and I screamed, we have this

word.\ In Tagalog, the word is "ma arte".

So it means kind of like.

What's the technical term for it?

It's kind of like fancy, snobby, like kind of too good for things.

He didn't want me to sound so ma arte by screaming and being like, Oh my

God, this cockroach on the ground.

And so he, The lesson is basically pretend you're not phased by cockroaches when

you go to another developing country.

Erin: Yeah.

. I know cuz I was that person in Cambodia who went to the desk in

the hostel and was like, I need you to come and kill this cockroach.

My friends and I, and this was like, we'd only been, we'd been

in Cambodia for like two weeks.

It was our first time in Asia and we just like, we hadn't acclimatized yet to like

the size of bugs in southern climates.

We do not get cockroaches that size in Ontario, they just don't exist.

And so we were having a total meltdown and thank God this like Cambodian

guy was like, Yeah, I'll help you.

But he was laughing his head off the whole time at how ridiculous we were.

Leah: And he's probably if I clean this up, if I get rid of this,

there's gonna be 10 more waitings.

Erin: Yeah, exactly.

I have been to the Netherlands now a couple times.

Thankfully, it's not as far flight as the Philippines, so I've been

able to squeeze in a few more trips.

I actually went when my school had student exchange in university, I ended up doing

exchange in the Netherlands, which was amazing cuz it gave me like an excuse

to live there and spend more time with family and like learn more about it.

So like throughout the time that I've spent in Holland, I would say

that my understanding of my own Dutchness has changed a little bit.

I hadn't ever felt like I wasn't Canadian, and I also wanna say like I think it's

always been easy for me to feel Canadian because I'm white, and so no one has

ever challenged me on whether or not I look or sound or behave Canadian.

But experiencing the Netherlands like kind of affirmed my Canadianness in

a way that it hadn't been affirmed before, because it's kind of like

being immersed in another country.

I felt the differences more and I realized like these little things

that I do, the shoes taking off thing like that is a Canadian thing,

And I noticed that in the Netherlands cuz a lot of people in Holland

don't take their shoes off.

And so moments like that, you're like, Oh, I I am Canadian.

Yeah.

Or like people making fun of me all the time for saying sorry like you just, you

feel it more when you're outside of it.

I guess.

With all that said, did your American identity like, did your feelings

about it change at all when you finally got to go to the Philippines?

Leah: I just stuck out like a sore thumb in the Philippines, even though

I literally look like a Filipino, first off, I'm like half a foot taller

than everybody, men and women, and I'm about 40 pounds heavier too.

And like that's just to say because they're ti like, they're petite.

There's, so everyone's like a small frame.

I think Southeast Asia, a lot of Southeast Asians in general have like

a more petite, like a smaller frame.

But I just felt like, you know, I'm a normal like 5'5 average height of

the American woman, like midsize body.

This is normal in, in the States or Canada.

Right.

in the Philippines, I felt huge , I felt huge and I felt tall.

And when they would do things or say things and because, I dunno the language,

a lot of it for me would be a blank stare.

And so I'm like, Wow, I am really not Philipp.

I'm really not.

I mean, I'm not from the Philippines.

I'm like truly Filipina American.

I have no idea what they're talking about.

There were moments yeah where I was just like out of my element

and I'm like, Uh, do I belong here?

, you know?

Erin: Yeah.

I totally get.

So I guess like ultimately I know that I'm not like truly Dutch,

but the Netherlands is still like definitely part of my identity.

So sometimes I think like about how identity isn't whole, and I kind of

touched on this like in the beginning with that question about home.

I really feel like it's kind of made up of all these separate pieces that come

together from our cultural backgrounds and our family histories and et cetera, to

sort of make up this puzzle of identity.

So I'm curious how like you would factor your Filipino heritage

into like your larger identity.

Leah: I definitely consider myself like, I very much use all the time

Filipina American cuz people are always gonna ask, they're always gonna

be like curious about where my dark hair and dark features come from.

And like I mentioned earlier, I definitely try to research on my

own now that I'm an adult and try, I purposely try to fit it into my culture.

Not just the taking the shoes off in the house, but more like,

okay, what was our history like?

Like why do we have so much influence from the Japanese, the

Spanish, the British, the Americans?

Why have the Philippines been speaking English for 120 years?

Like these are all things that I went to go and find out on my own.

So I am proud of my culture and now it's up to me.

Like I go and support these bakery popups.

I go and support Filipino artists.

Like now it's up to me to kind of solidify that like first generation Filipino,

or those, those Filipino Americans, and, and make sure that like we are

seen and hurt and can feel comfortable being part of both cultures these days.

So that's how it fits into my life.

Like it's very much part of me, but it's being Filipina American

is very different than being like Filipino in the Philippines.

Erin: And I think that's like true for basically like any, anyone who's

migrated essentially or is like a child of a migrant or grandchild even

because you have those roots, but like you're not part of that country really.

I don't know.

I don't know how I'm saying this, but.

Leah: Yeah, you just grew up, I mean, you grew up in a different area completely.

Like you still bring some of the traditions, but it's not gonna

be everything cuz now you're just like creating a mixture, right?

Erin: Yeah.

So one thing I wanted to bring up are these tours that have

become like more popular.

I would say like I've definitely noticed people talking about them more

in recent years and they're tours that bring people back to their homelands.

I just wanted to look one up to give an example.

The company, Black and Abroad operates group tours to Ghana and Senegal.

And one of the co-founders of the company, Eric Martin, said in an interview for

Travel and Leisure that for people on the tour's quote, "making a pilgrimage

to these West African countries, seeing the sites, hearing the personal accounts

of our African ancestors directly from their surviving descendants

creates a cathartic connection."

So I think especially for people who've been displaced, some through force,

like through the slave trade, heritage tours can be really therapeutic.

And the article quotes Brian Oliver, who's a Baltimore based nonprofit

director who visited the five African countries that matched his DNA.

And he says that the trips have made him feel more in touch with himself

and his culture than ever before.

And now they have these tours, like I know they run them bringing

Armenian Canadians back to Armenia.

There's a lot of Armenians in Toronto, actually.

Leah: Oh really?

Um, what?

That's funny because LA is the Armenian capital of the US.

Erin: Oh, no way.

That makes sense.

The Kardashians are there.

Leah: Oh yeah.

But yeah, there's a lot of Armenians here and they like run half the city.

Like they're just also an amazing culture, but they're, I feel like

they're, it's, there's like there a lot of wealthier Armenians out here too.

Erin: There are, yeah.

Yeah.

So good for for them from too.

Yeah.

No, I actually know this because I used to work for an organization that did a

lot of work in the Armenian community.

So yeah, you can take those tours.

There's also, of course like, I forget what it's called, but

Israel, like famously has a tour that brings people back.

Yeah.

What do they called birth?

Leah: Birthright.

Yeah.

Literally the coolest program.

Yeah.

I think, I feel like honestly, every country should have that

. Erin: Yeah.

And I feel like it, it does like help people to feel like connected to a

culture that they've been displaced from, which is really important.

So, yeah, did traveling to the Philippines make you feel more

in touch with Filipino culture?

Leah: Absolutely.

And I was so curious about it before, that's why I finally just said,

You know what, I'm just gonna go do it without my parents, because

who knows what tomorrow will bring.

It could bring a pandemic . And it did.

It did.

Um, unfortunately, yes.

So it definitely did.

And I think it's cool because I had one parent there, so I felt

like I learned a lot from him.

I met so many people while I was there and met my extended family on my

stepmom's side, that I'm lucky enough that I will always have family to go

back to and like places to visit while I'm there and I just, I'm, I wanna

get to a point where the Philippines is like an annual trip for me.

Erin: Aw, that's wonderful.

I hope you do get to, I hope one day you have a house there.

And You spend six months a year there.

Leah: That would be the life.

But like you, Okay.

You mentioned earlier that your gra, who, was it your parents or your

grandparents gave up their Dutch citizenship when they came here?

Well, in the Philippines, you can't buy property unless you have a passport.

And the only way that I can get a passport is if my parents were still citizens

when I was born and they were not.

So now I'm like, Okay, now I.

Try to find whatever loopholes or get lawyers involved so I can like get help.

But eventually, yes, I'd love to get like a passport and buy property there.

I can't buy land there.

I could buy property.

Erin: Right, Right, right, right.

Yeah, it's complicated like going in and getting that document like

after that cuz the same thing happened in our family obviously.

Like at one point I was like, can I get a Dutch passport?

And um, I did look into it and they actually won't issue passports unless you

give up the one you're currently holding.

Leah: Oh, you're kidding.

Erin: So I would have to like, I have the paperwork to do it, but obviously I don't

wanna give up my Canadian citizenship.

My partner actually is pursuing getting his Italian passport, cuz Italy will allow

you to hold dual, but it's literally years like he has been on a waiting list for

years and there's like lawyers involved.

It's wild how complicated it is.

Like I think it'll probably be like five more years before

he actually gets the passport.

Why do you think traveling home to your country of heritage was

so important for you and like why do you think it's important for

children of immigrants in general?

Leah: I just think that if we don't pass these traditions on and we

don't try to keep your mother land alive through future generations.

It can all be lost, to be honest.

And like I said earlier, I feel like it's almost becoming lost on me.

That's why I'm trying so hard as an adult to stay attached to it and

stay open-minded and make sure to try to infuse it into myself and my

niece and if I have kids and whatnot.

And I think it's, it's a, it's great for an understanding of the world in

seeing how vastly different, maybe a southeast Asian country and a North

American country are from one another.

Right?

And when we understand those cultures, we understand each other as human beings

and it's, we have a more open-minded view of how the world works and how

these differences are acceptable and appreciated and celebrated.

I wish I could have gone while I was younger, you know, but I had to make due

with going going at 30 plus years old.

Erin: There's such a beauty in like the way that the world

is sort of like blending.

I know a lot of people don't like it, but I just think it's like

really beautiful if we can like live.

Like you living in America, being able to like bring this Filipino culture, like

into your life there and sharing it with like other people that you know, like

I'm learning a lot right now chatting with you and I'm sure other people that

you know learn chatting from you and it's just kind of nice like that we

can all share what we know about these homelands that we originally came from.

It's something that I like really love talking to people about.

So before we let you go, do you want to share with everyone

where they can find you.

Leah: Yeah.

Thank you so much, Erin, for having me on.

This was a lot of fun and also brought back amazing memories and I

felt like I learned a lot from you.

So . Aw, thank you for having me.

Um, but anyways, Leah LAinFlight on every social media platform you can think of.

I'm also the co-host of the Ticket to Anywhere podcast where we're

helping you adventure from anywhere.

So you can find us on any podcast platform and we are also on YouTube.

Erin: Thanks for listening to the show.

If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it with a fellow traveler.

Make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast app, and if you're

feeling extra generous, you can leave us a five star review or support us on Patreon.

Alpaca my Bags is written and hosted by me, Erin Hynes, and

it's produced and edited by Kattie Laur in Canada's Toronto area.

If you wanna reach out to us, check the show notes for all the info you need.

I'll see you in two weeks, but in the meantime, I hope you get to

alpaca your bags safely and soon.