Speaker 1 (00:02): Fáilte. My name is Andrew Healy, and I'm a lover and drinker of Irish whiskey. I'm on a journey of discovery to learn as much as I can about the great spirit of the Emerald Isle and along that journey, I'm lucky enough to meet other people who are passionate about Irish whiskey and that my favorite Irish podcast is their story and their favorite Irish whiskey. Whether that's their current favorite, their first ever dream, or the one that has a special place in their life. On today's episode, I got to spend some time recently with John Cashman, who has the great title of Head of Whiskey at The Powerscourt Distillery in Enniskerry, County Wicklow. And we talked about John, The Powerscourt Distillery, and his current favorite Irish whiskey Fercullen Falls. Listen along...

Speaker 2 (00:57): Fáilte ar ais to everybody. Normally we're sitting at a bar, but we're actually sitting here at the boardroom table at Powerscourt Distillery with Head of Whiskey, John Cashman. John, lovely to meet you in person. Yeah, pleasure, pleasure. Thanks for having us here. Oh, it's an absolute pleasure, and welcome to Powerscourt, welcome to the Garden of Wicklow. Yes, indeed. And you're a proud Wicklow man. I'm born and bred, I'm born and bred here grew up half an hour's drive from here in Rathdrum, Wicklow County. Famous for Avondale, the home of Charles Stewart Parnell, who was obviously known as the uncrowned King of Ireland. And yeah, so I've been in the whiskey industry over 20 years and for the past two years, being a happy, happily working in my own home county here in County Wicklow and helping Powerscourt get established.

(01:47): I bet you 20 years ago you didn't think you'd be doing that. No. 20 years ago, obviously the industry is very, very different than it is today. 20 years ago, there were three Irish whiskey distilleries soon to be four. But the fourth was the re-establishment of one of the oldest, which of course was Kilbeggan. But 20 years ago there was only Midleton Distillery down in County Cork ,there was the Bushmills Distillery in County Antrim and and Cooley Distillery in County Louth and they were the three distilleries. And Irish whiskey was in a very different place 20 years ago. It was declining sales worldwide. Things weren't doing too great for it. And you know, then all of a sudden things changed and things changed due to a lot of different reasons, but there's a lot of focus.

(02:38): Is there any one particular reason or any one particular catalyst? The, I mean, the catalyst is when Pernod Ricard got involved and started focusing on Irish whiskey and decided to focus on one particular brand that being Jameson, worldwide. That certainly was a starting point, but secondly, a very simple thing. Irish whiskey tastes good, you know, it's different to other styles of whiskey. It's got a lighter, softer, almost sweeter appeal than we'll say traditional Scotch whiskey or other styles. And people's taste buds have changed over time as well. And people in their now in their forties, you know, probably the first generation when growing up where the choice of drink was more than just water or milk, and there was probably sweet drinks. And as a result, as they graduated into drinking alcohol, they probably had a sweet tooth, but they didn't realize.

(03:33): And certainly Irish whiskey appeals to that rather than Scotch whiskey. Look globally, you see growth of Bourbon whiskey as well, and Bourbon whiskeys inherently more sweet than some other styles of whiskey. So, so that's got something to do it. And then as well, I suppose Brand Ireland and Ireland becoming a cool, cool thing through music, through pubs, through films, through theater, through dancepeople focusing on Ireland and seeing what else is out there is a bit more to Ireland and just a glass of a dark beer with a white head you know, And seeing that there was, Yeah, What's this whiskey, I'll try that. Ooh, that's nice. Because I like sweeter things. Hmm. That's better than, you know, when my parents drank in the seventies. So yeah, a lot of these things like a perfect storm and things came together and help the Irish industry.

(04:20): But, you know, the boring start of it is you needed a large multinational to start focusing on the category. Yeah. And that's what they were. So 20 years in the industry, obviously seen it change Yes. In that time. And you're here at, at Powerscourt since...Powerscourt. I've been here officially since the beginning of this year, 2022. Okay. I've, but un-officially since around Easter the previous year I was doing some consultancy work with Powerscourt. Very friendly with Noel Sweeney worked with Noel for years, including Distillery. Noel was theMaster Distiller and Master Blender here. Then Alex Pierce who was the CEO of the company. I'm friendly with him, so they'd asked me to come on board to help out with just some of my experience and my knowledge from previously 18 years working internationally for Irish whiskey and other whiskey brands.

(05:15): so yeah, came on board April of last year, and then in January this year, Noel Sweeney left the business and I took on a new role, Head of Whiskey, which was essentially, you know, everything to do with releasing products and new product development and putting strategy and, and systems in place to, to, that we would have a portfolio of products into the future in this transitional period when the initial liquids that were purchased four years ago are being reduced. We just don't have as much all that, and we're beginning just start releasing our own whiskeys and put a bit of strategy in place of how we achieve that. So that's what I've been doing now for the past, for the past. I mean, now September, nine months. Yeah. Structure is always a good thing. It is, especially as you grow. Yes.

(05:58): And obviously that's the plan here is is to grow. Definitely. Definitely. So open since 20,.. The first distillation here was 20.. Yeah. The first distillation was 2018. So the idea for the distillery came about around 2014, 2015, when some local families from the area had an idea of maybe establishing a whiskey distill ry in County Wicklow. Looking through the history books and we don't have any records of any legal whiskey distilleries in County Wicklow. I think it's probably because of the proximity to Dublin and Dublin being such a hotbed of whiskey distillation in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. So the two families came together and started putting a plan about establishing a distillery and obviously trying to raise funds is a big issue, and then more importantly, trying to find a good location. And they came here.

(06:47): The two families all grew up around this area. So they came to the Slazenger family who owned the Powerscourt Estate with the business plan. And the Slazenger's bought into it and went actually this could be a good idea for, for our estate. So where we're seated right now was chosen as the site, and this is the Mill House, and this is the oldest building on the entire estate from the 18th century. And this would've been where all the barley and all the grain and all the cereals were brought. And they were milled down into flour. In later years it became a saw mill. So this was, this was chosen as the site, and then they had to go start sourcing money and getting knowledge and know-how, and that's when Noel Sweeney got involved.

(07:33): And the Pierce family, and the Pierce family are the founders of the Isle of Arran Distillery in Scotland, Irish family, but involved with Scottish whiskey. They brought whiskey knowledge. You had Noel bringing distillation knowledge and blending knowledgeand also access to liquid that he previously distilled in Cooley Distillery. So that was purchased. And in September, 2017, they started construction of the distillery, which backs onto this old part of the building. And then in June, 2018the first distillation happened. It was a nine month turnaroundwhich at that stage was the quickest turnaround for Forsythe's of Scotland who were the famous engineering company in distilling, in distilling circles. So started distilling in June, 2018. First liquid was laid down in August, 2018. They just didn't have all the barrels in place yet. Sothe iquid was kept in storage in IBGs and then put into cask in August, 2018.

(08:33): So that means our oldest liquid is now just over four years of age. So it's whiskey. It's whiskey, Yeah. Only needs to be three years. Yeah. I tasted about three years, thought it needed a little bit more time. So we held on another year, and that's what we are now beginning to slowly release and is some of our own liquid, because as I've said a few times, you know, what we purchased originally is getting smaller and smaller, running out of certain ages in certain categories. So we need to start supplementing with our own liquid. So we have almost 750,000 liters of pure alcohol that we've produced ourselves which would be enough for two, 3 million bottles right now. And, and we're still, you know, producing on a daily basis five days a week. Great. Producing the equivalent of maybe eight barrels of whiskey a day.

(09:21): That's one shift, we have the capacity to triple that if we so require that. And we're looking maybe next year to, double our capacity and great, you know, with, with hopefully the expectations and the plans that we have for products, like Fercullen Falls and other products that we're going to bring over the next few years. Yeah. Hopefully we'll be doubling, if not trebling our capacity. Obviously in a few minutes we'll get to actually a sample of your favorite Irish, which is currently Fercullen Falls. Obviously something you're proud of here. I'm suspecting you were involved in the final blend, pretty much all aspects of it. <Laugh>. Ok. So it's got a little bit of your fingerprints. Yeah, no, we very good. I head up our new product development team here, so you know, real collaborative effort to bring this, bring this to life and my favorite part of it certainly was playing around with different blend and different ideas anddifferent samples and coming up with the concept.

(10:18): So yeah, no, it was that, it was good. And obviously I've known of Powerscourt living out in California, and the folks came out in 2019 or so, and they brought out a bottle I think it was the 8 year old. I was, be honest, I was chuffed to hear a distillery just down the road from Kilternan. But, you know, that was obviously bought liquid. Mm-Hmm and I'm delighted for you guys, and I'm sure you are, that you're now actually putting your own distillate into the bottle. Yeah, so I mean, Fercullen Falls is our first release. Now, it's not a hundred percent our own liquid because it's a blend. So we have had to source some grain whiskey for this blend. But specifically for the Blend. By Quarter One next year, we should be in a position to release a single malt whiskey from Powerscourt. Just from here. Fercullen single malt, which will be a hundred percent distilled here on site in County Wicklow.

(11:12): Great. And then as time evolves, we have more distillates that are maturing. Like we have pot still whiskey, we have peated malts, we have rye based pot stills. We have a lot of different mash bills that are presently maturing. So with time we'll start releasing those. But ultimately where I'd like us to be in the next few years is to have an establisheda blended whiskey and established malt whiskey, and then have pot still. And, you know, these maybe loathe to use the term experimental, but maybe heritage mash bills. I was just going to ask. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've not met Fionnán O'Connor, but I know he has done a huge amount of work as part of his PhD and I think it's fair to say people like yourself within the industry are excited by the fact that we can look back Yeah.

(12:10): A hundred, 150, 200 years and actually use that in our distilling future. Yeah one of the things I used to always say in my, my previous role when I was working with Beam Suntory I, brought the Kilbeggan pot still and Kilbeggan small batch rye to life. And I used to always maintain that you innovate your heritage and your history. So you look at, when Irish Irish whiskey dominated the world, and dominated world for specific reason,s the whiskey was really high quality. And the heritage mash bills that were back then are very different to the Irish mash bills of today. So we're not reinventing the wheel here, We're actually looking to, when Irish whiskey was number one in the world, taking those examples, taking those mash bills and try to bring them back to life, land that involved. Yeah.

(12:57): pot still and malted and malted barley, but also use of other cereals as well, be it oats, rye, wheatany of those types of things. And then different percentages of it, of it's just, you know, for a long period of time, that was only one Irish whiskey company making pots still whiskey, and they made it to their particular recipes. And so that became the norm. Andwhereas Irish whiskey was, was so much morediverse a hundred years ago. And that's one of the things that, you know, within the Irish Whiskey Association that I worked very closely with and, and, have chaired some of the committees over the years that, you know, it's the depth and diversity of Irish whiskey is what we're trying to get across to people. Your average consumer out in, in market, be it in California, Chicago or Shanghai, they might think, Oh, Irish whiskey is, you know, they'll use all those adjectives like light, soft, mild, mellow, easy drinking, smooth, all of these adjectives, which yes, are there, You can attribute them to Irish whiskey, but Irish whiskey is so much more diverse.

(13:59): you take a Connemara 12 year old and say, you know, is that the same as a Fercullen 10 year old single grain? Well, they're both Irish whiskeys, but they're very, very different Irish whiskeys. And that depth and diversity is really what stands Irish whiskey apart from lots of others. And that's something that you know, here and here in Powerscourt, we've been focusing on and producing different styles of whiskey. Yeah. Look, the blends are always going to be what pays the bills. That, and maybe a single malt. But we can have fun with some of the other stuff, and that's what stands us apart. Yeah. Just about to say I know recently from seeing the work you guys do and, and how you launched your, the second of your Italian garden series, was it, I actually, you know, having some connection to this place from my past, knowing of the Gardens, having seen them in a, in a few films and movies over the years, I think it's lovely that you've taken that Italian Garden heritage and added some, some Italian wine barrels.

(14:58): Yeah, yeah. That was kind of one of my firstone of the first releases I did when I went back in January after Noel Sweeney left and I sat down for my first NPD meeting and the team started to say, Okay, our estate series number one last year, which wasa single grain finish in Amarone, which wasNoel decided than that because he loves grain whiskey and Amarone's his favorite red wine. Okay, so that's what he did. And then back in January they said, Okay, John, what are you doing for the second release? And I'm like, I'm going following Noel Sweeney <laugh>. So I, the bar is high. Yeah. So I, I decided to do something completely different and I went for a blend. Andbut I also wanted to acknowledge, you know, Noel is a good friend of mine and I worked with Noel for like, over 16 years and it was a case, I want the tip of the hat to Noel, Amarone being his favorite wine style, so let's continue on our Amarone influence.

(15:52): So I took someaged malt20 year old single malt whiskey that had finished for four years in Amone and blended with 11 year old grain whiskey at a percentage where I was really happy with mouth feel because I wanted people to be able to get the Amarone influence, but also get the sweetness of the grain whiskey as well. And then when it's, when you actually consume it, another it combines a lovely mouth feel. You get all of these elements together. And then being the estate series, we focus on the different element on the estate and there are so many different things from, you know, the waterfall to the house to, you know, the Mill house was our first one, which is the building we're in now. But because this was Italian I called it Amarone influence, of Italian influence, was not a finish.

(16:40): It was like, Yeah, that's the Italian gardens, which course, you know, the famous terraced gardens in front of the house, voted third most beautiful gardens in the world by National Geographic. Really? So yeah. So yeah, focus on that andyeah, it's been great. It's been a really, really good success. It wasI think we limited it to 6,000 bottles and it's doing really, really well for us. So you did the launch at a famous Italian restaurant in Dublin. Yeah. We had a great night, or no, it was daytime. It was actually my birthday as well, which was just, just a bizarre coincidence. So yeah, June the 20th this year we launched it. So we had a great afternoon drinking whiskey and eatingItalian tapas, whatever. I know that's two different languages in there, but whatever the Italian tapas is. Yeah.

(17:28): Small bites. Antipasti. Yeah, that was a great day. And obviously we're, you know, we're going to taste it Fercullen Falls in a minute. And obviously we're recording this as opposed to doing video, but a very different look and feel to the bottle. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The one of the things I strive to achieve when I started discussing the transition from purchased age liquid to our own produced liquid is it needs to be visually different. It's going to be different liquid it's going to be younger liquid than what we've had. It's going to taste differently because it's made in a different location. So there's no point in trying to shoehorn new liquid into old look labels or old look brands or names. Well, Fercullen is our brand name that is the old, the old name for this region was Feara Chulainn, literally meaning the men of the Wicklow Mountains.

(18:25): So that is our brand name. But heretofore we've had like Fercullen premium blend and Fercullen 8 year old, this is a blend as well. Bute looked at another, almost like a sub-brand andyou know, Powerscourt is famous for the House, is famous for the Gardens, and it's famous for the waterfall. So that's how Fercullen Falls as a name. Have the label very much more contemporarydifferent look and feel where traditional labels, which, you know, with age statements on them have the look of maybe traditional Scotch malts of traditional old Irish brands. So have this one that it'll really pop, it will stand out and you look at it and you're kind of like, Wow, that, that looks new and interesting and exciting. And the liquid, of course is it's new, interesting, exciting liquid.

(19:14): Andthat was the concept behind it. So is, and obviously none of us have a crystal ball although you are, the new product development guy here, will Fercullen Falls become a subbrand, so to speak, as you look forward. Well Fercullen will always be the name of the whiskey that we're releasing. So Fercullen Falls is our blended whiskey. Next year we'll have a Fercullen Single Malt. We'll have a Fercullen single pot still. Whether they'll have subsection names up for discussion now, but I doubt it. I think we'll probably use Fercullen single malt, you knowwhereas this one we just wanted to, wanted to, you know, something that I think works, I think Fercullen Fallssounds good. And you canI could envisage people going in and going into a bar and there's the Fercullen 10 or Fercullen 21 or Fercullen whatever, and saying, Yeah, I'll have, I'll have the Falls please.

(20:09): You know, a Fercullen Falls. And I think you can play with the word as well. You can, you knowginger and falls, you know, things like that you can play around. Yeah. Get, Yeah. So yes, our brand name is Fercullen. All our releases will be Fercullen but certainly this one as a starting point, as FercullenFalls is, And sells at 38 euro on shelf here in Ireland. Okay so a pretty good price for a lot of the new releases. And you know, the reason we can do that is the makeup of it is...I specifically went for a much higher malt content than your average Irish whiskey. Your average Irish whiskey is probably anywhere between 10 to 20% malt. We've gone for 50% malt. Okay.

(20:56): So I wanted the spice, I wanted the intensity, I wanted the creaminess of the malt to be really, really evident. Also the malt, we've made it ourselves, you know, so has certain cost implications to that. And then the other 50% isgrain whiskey. I love grain whiskey. This is sourced grain whiskey, but what I've done with it is I've chosen two different styles of grain whiskey straight bourbon matured grain whiskey, but then also grain whiskey that has matured in heavy char new American oak barrels to give a depth of color intensity of that, that sort of burnt sugars and the caramels and all those elements that you'll get from freshly charred barrels. So that combination with our malt whiskey, which has matured first fill bourbon barrels, you're going to get vanillas, you're going to get the sort of citrus green fruit elements.

(21:41): There's a lovely spice to this is a pepper, spices, a clove, spice, touch ofc innamonall of these elements together. But ultimately for me it's that, it's that combination. It's the mouth feel, it's the, it's, it's a good whiskey for me has to have a good aroma and a good mouth feel. And that has to work together. And this, I feel does for something that is essentially going to be our entry level product. That's then my next question, this is going to be your calling card. Yeah. Essentially, you know, and a 38 Euros a bottle here in Ireland it's at a very good price point. You're in that just next level. Yeah. Next level up. We can never, we can never go at a price point like a Kilbeggan, a Jameson, a Paddy, or Bushmills, kind of scale.

(22:22): It's impossible. Yeah. You know, but at the next level where you have the likes of Teeling small batch, you have ourselvesmaybe Jamsson Black Barrel some of the next steps seen as maybe a little bit more premiumthat's where we're sitting and we're price, competitive against all of those. And in some ways you are, well, you can't do it because of economies a scale, but you're better off being in that area because it's, you're never going to take no any of Jameson's market share. Sobeing in that, I'm not sure how it's categorized in terms of the price structure. Yeah. But it makes sense that that's where you're pitching yourself. Yeah. It also does because you haveI often use the United States as an example and the absolute success of Jameson in the US over the years, whereby they were very good at targeting the young consumer.

(23:10): A 21 year old kid who's drinking whiskey, having a shot in a bar, whatever. And they're on Jameson now that gets to 25 or 26, and they have a few dollars in their pocket, they've got a good job and they're looking around and they've, they like Jameson and they like that style, they like that flavor, but now their kid, brother or sister or 21 years of age is shooting Jamison in the bar and they're going, Well, I'm not exactly going to drink the same thing as the student, you know, so what's there for me? Where's the next step? Yeah. And that next step up is where Fercullen Falls, will really fit in, you know, it's versatile drink, it's great for drinking, drinking straight, as we will in a few seconds. But also it works really well in a cocktail because of that mouthfeel, because of the extra malt content also, we decided to bottle it at 43%.

(23:55): So again, it gives a bartender a little bit more leeway to play around with flavors. It holds up better in maybe an Irish coffee, for example. Okay. An Irish coffee has the third largest penetration of cocktails in the United States, you know, after Margarita and I can't remember. But Irish coffee comes in third, you know, and, and something like this, you taste the whiskey in it, you know, because of that extra malt content and that extra alcohol that up to 43%. So all of that combined is where we're sitting with this whiskey. So I've noticed that on my journey. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>into whiskey, Irish whiskey ABV's. <Affirmative> are this is that 43, I'm noticing more of them in that 43 to 47 range. Yeah. Is that to do with filtration?

(24:44): It can bewhen it's at 46%, you don't necessarily have to chill filtrate it becausethe extra alcohol means that the oils don't separate. Okay. so often you'll see if it's 46, they'll also in marketing say, non chill filtered, you know. Now this has been chill filtered. It's 43 because if it goes into the cold, it could separate because it's not, the alcohol isn't high enough. But at43 it was just it worked, you know, I'm, all about, you know, when I said that, that knows that mouth feel and strength, you know, I like a classic example was there, back, back, around Saint Patrick's Day, I launched a single cask productI'd done in conjunction with a local brewery. They'd got a loan of some of our barrels and put Imperial Stout into it.

(25:36): They released the Imperial Stout. I got the barrels back and put whiskey into it. And then I was looking to release it as a, as an exclusive here in the distillery. And I went through different... It was a single cask so I wasn't blended, but I was trying to get the right strength of where I was happy. And at 40 it was just lost. You know, it was all nose, There was no mouth fill, there was no body, there was no oil, there was no texture, At cask strength it was too intense. It was too sharp. There was no nose. All you could get was smell alcohol, you tasted, it was burning. And I went through all the different things and I hit 49% was perfect. You had a really good aroma, really good nose. You had a great mouth feel, you know.

(26:18): So that for me, for that one product was 49% was when it was at, its, for me, I was happiest with it. And that's whatever it needs. Yeah. With this, with this blend43%was for us, because unfortunately also we have to be cognizant of Ireland has the third highest spirits, excise rights in Europe. So, you know, we go higher, it's going to be more expensive on the shelf as well. So we need to, we need to keep that into mind as well. And, and 43, we could get away with 38 euro on the shelf, you know? Yeah. I sense some pride from you about, about this whiskey, which is... Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It was a labor of love over the past nine months, you know, it was a big effort from the entire team here at a time where costs of goods are increasing across the board when logistics are a problem, you know. Like the analogy of the swan, everything looked graceful.

(27:12): You mightn't have thought anything was wrong if you saw me from day to day. But underneath as a team, we were, we were absolutely, you know, our legs were kicking to get this, to get this on time. And of course, you were dealing with the, we're still in it with the tail'ish end of Covid as well. Yeah, yeah. There was, there was that, you know, But literally labels arrived two days before bottling, you know, it was, it was down to the wire, where the capsules on the top here, These, you know, were lost somewhere in customs, you and we then had to, had to find them. And again, they just arrived a few days beforehand. We thought it was even at the stage, we were almost considering pushing it out by a month. So we'd be comfortable. And then it was like, No, it's going to, it's going to come.

(27:56): And it did all just, but it was a pretty chaotic few months. So we should probably get some of this into a glass, and I'm going go off on a tangent and kind of dig into you a little. And do you remember what your, your first whiskey was? And I do? Well, the first, I mean, apart from, you know, you might tip your finger into something your grandfather had, you know, he was a my grandfather who I remember was one of my grandfathers died before I was born. But when my grandfather Johnsona Wicklow farmer, he was a Powers man. So that probably was the first I ever would've tasted. There was never whiskey in my house when I was growing up. Okay. Where we grew up, my parents didn't drink. Oh, no, that's a lie.

(28:42): My mother drank Pady, but I don't recall it much being in the house. But I remember when I got to sort of experimental years with alcohol in my maybe obviously late teens. <Laugh> No, no idea from that. Your secret's safe with the world. It was Crested 10 was my first whiskey that I really recall. And that I, I remember having an effect. And I remember a friend telling me about it, saying, try this whiskey called Crestaed10. And I remember the way he described it, he said, you, you'll drink it and it would go down and then the heat would come back at you. And I remember trying it, and that's exactly my experience of it. And to this day, it's one of my favorite Irish whiskeys. And you know, it, I'm also a judge for international wine spirits competition and many different competitions around the world.

(29:36): And if I, if I was to look at that whiskey objectively, it's not going win too many prizes, you know? But it's still one of my favorites because it was my first whiskey, you know, and I still, now they've changed. And I was no longer called Crested10Jameson rebranded it as just Crested. But I still, if I see an old bottle of the originals, sort of yellow label Crested 10. Yeah, I remember too. Yeah. I had had the red, a red insignia or ship, I think. Yeah. It was a ship. Yeah if I see it at a local bar or you know, just a country bar, I, I'll generally get a glass of it. It's, it's only available here in Ireland. It is, Yeah. Yeah. So I'm thinking when we leave, we'll be grabbing a bottle of at duty free, as we can't get it in the States.

(30:21): No, no. And it was here's some trivia for you. It was the first Irish whiskey brand to be bottled in house. I think Crested 10 was. As opposed to being done by...by a Bonder or Bottler, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. . So this is Fercullen Falls. So Fercllen Falls is a blendhigh malt content, 50% malt, 50% grain. The malts matured exclusively in first bourbon barrels, the grain and a combination of first fill bourbon, and as I said, heavy char oak. On the nose there is that kind of orchard fruits in the background, stewed apples, things like that. There's a lot of that burnt sugars, honeys, sweet caramel flavors coming through. And that's the influence of the first fill bourbon. But also more importantly, the influence of the heavy charheavy char fresh oak of barrels, you're going to have those burnt sugars in the, in the oak, are going to be there. And you put the liquid into it and it's going to absorb it straight away. There's definitely, you mentioned spice earlier on, you're describing it definitely that spice character. There's a cinnamony heat spice. Yeah. It's a sweet spice. Yeah. I would call that sweet spice. There is. And then, yeah, it's a very attractive nose.

(31:59): So whiskey that if you keep it to the front of your mouth, you don't actually taste that because all your sweet receptors have further back in your tongue. So it waits until it has to go back over your tongue before you pick up all the flavors. And then, you know, the maltiness is there, so you got this kind of creaminess in your mouth. It's kind of layers of oils and cream, and that's that higher malt content coming through, got the sweetness and the softness in the finishes, the grain whiskey that, that sweet grain element coming through. And drying, drying, again, the side of your side of your mouth. And that's that heavy char bourbon, so the tannins and that are, are kicking in there, there. So, you know, it's a simple whiskey but you know, it's, it's fairly complex and it's, it's, it's, it's lovely drinking.

(32:49): Straight as is. But as I said, we we have different drinks suggestions. We're working on, you know, working with different mixologists and, and bartenders coming up with ideas of different long drinks. Andand I said certainly in a Hot Toddy or an Irish coffee, this will, this will work pretty good. It's obviously first time I've tasted it here and it definitely leaves that lovely long Yeah. For four year old whiskey. It's a really long length. Yeah. Long length. Yeah. You know what I mean? It definitely does have, have good length for such a young whiskey and certainly in our experimentation of trying it against the products at the same price point and it's just that that extra malt is giving more depth of flavor. Yeah. It's giving more of a mouth feel.

(33:41): It's giving that heavier cream feel. It's like the difference if you took a single creamer or a double cream, you took a spoon full of each double cream has more of a mouth feel. Yeah. This has more of a mouth feel than other whiskeys at its, in its competitive set. Yeah. It's interesting as well. Let's go back to the nose. When I've nosed and tasted grain whiskeys mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I find a, a nutty character to them, almost a kind of a, so take almonds, but actually blend them up like an, an almond butter, so to speak. Yeah. And there is a kind of a little hint of it in there that I'm getting on it, but to your point, the spic is lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Not overpowering. No. Nicely balanced in the mouth. And I can see how this would actually make great for se, but it, I think it's going to be good in cocktails.

(34:32): It's got character, it's got weight to it, and that, that second sip now just had like, it's all that sort of heavy cream in the background. It'syou know, real just, yeah, it's just a mouth. I love the mouth feel of this whiskey, you know? Yeah. There's no, there's no lightness. There's no thinness in it. It's, it's a heavier mouth feel, you know, almost getting towards an oily pot still, but without the spice of that, you know, one of those real old traditional Irish pot stills with, you know, the real heavy mouth field. This is getting towards that. And that's just our malt the influence of our malt kicking in. Going back to that part of productionthe grains, the barley is, is it coming from close by. There is, we do have barley fields here around the estate, and we do use some of the barley, but more so in our pot still whiskey.

(35:25): So unmalted barley. So our malted barley is all sourced fromwe try to get it from County Wicklow. If it's not, it's certainly within the region, be from Leinster somewhere. Okay. We're using local grain companies to source for us and things like that. So how was Harvest this year? Yeah, good. Yeah, we got a lot of, a lot of, it was early, it was about a week earlier, usual, because we had a very good summer. And that was collected, when was it? Back just before my holidays? A back from Mal days? I can't actually remember. I think it was, I think it might have been just beginning of August. Okay. So we were happy, we were happy with what we got. Now obviously just like, like everything next year, price of has increased significantly.

(36:11): It's now trebled now then what it was maybe a year and a half ago. So that's going to be a bit of a issue for most people. And, you know, costs are going to increase along with everything else. Yeah. Unfortunately. So, plans in the future, I know again we don't have the crystal ball. But from what I've read, are we going to see Fercullen Falls across the pond at some stage. Hopefully, hopefully. We're early negotiations with a few different companies. We're very unlike a lot of Irish whiskey companies who, when they start up to go have to get to the US, well, look, I spent, 10 years literally walking from one side of the US to the other selling whiskey. And it's not as easy as, Okay, I've got a listing in the US now we can sit back.

(36:56): Each state is different. Each state is like a different country within Europe, so you need to approach it differently. So we deliberately didn't target the US and we're still not in the US yet. We're in 20 odd other countries around the world, you know, and growing quickly. And we, we kind of started off in the good whiskey, malt countries, the likes of France, Germany, the BeNeLux countries , some of the Nordics, you knowwe're in ChinaWe're going into south-east Asia. Southkorea's a big market for us. Israel's a very good market. It's a very goodpretty good malt market. So we kind of like build a base, learn from that, and then take that into the US. We also didn't quite have the portfolio for the US. For the US you needed a product like Falls.

(37:48): We didn't have a product like Falls, but this will enable us now, you know, there will be interest because we have this product, and that then enables us to bring some of our older Fercullen products in as well. So you know, within the next six months, not only am I going bring out an exclusive Fercullen single malt distilled here, but I'm also working on a new 15 year old product. I have a new 21 year old product coming out just in a matter of weeks. The 21 year old product is, has it come from an influence? I lived in Spain for a while and I love going to Spain. I go to Spain twice a year at least, and I just go love going into old Spanish bodegas where they have the barrels behind the barn, and they'll get the fortified wines out of those barrels.

(38:34): Andso that, that was in my head when I was coming up the concept for the 21. So I've taken bourbon, matured whiskeys, and then PX matured whiskeys and all the also matured whiskeys and married those together in the 21 year old. So Interesting, I've enough stock for at least five years of that which I'm looking forward to, and the same with the 15. So I still have some of our aged whiskeys, but our 10 will be transitioning out. Our age will be transitioning out, or 18 will be transitioning out. So this time next year, if we were sitting down, what I would hope to see from us is Fercullen Falls, Fercullen single malt, Fercullen 15, Fercullen 21, and then maybe interesting single cask releases, market specific in between or distillery specific. Okay, great. It's obvious that you're excited about what you're working on, and there's a structure and a strategy as you move forward.

(39:31): SoI certainly know from the whiskey groups and circles that I'm in, in the States Fercullen is talked about people smuggle it in <laugh> in their suitcases or in, in, in boxes. And, and so I'm sure when it arrives officially, it'll be well received. So I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. So before we wrap up, when you're not here mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and not at home, where, where's your, is there a great whiskey bar in Wicklow or do you go into Dublin or where would you go? My local, Yeah. My local pub is the Cartoon Inn, in Rathdram. That's my local, which is famous as Rathdrum used to have a cartoon festivalillustration cartoons. So a lot of famous cartoons over the years would've come to Rathdrum. And in this pub, the walls were all painted white, and there's cartoons literally drawn all over the walls.

(40:20): So it's all cartoons, illustrations, things like that. And that's my local, but the Palace Bar, of course would be where I would go to in the city. Then outside of thatyou know, some of my favorite bars, one of my old time favorite bars, and the inspiration for the 21 is a bar called Antigua Casa de LaGuardia, which is in Malagain Andalusia. And that's, that's a traditional Spanish sort of fortified wine bar. Andthat's, that's where I first kind of had the idea for, for the 21 year olds when I was in that bar. Inspiration in wine country. So they're my locals. Great. Okay. Well, thank you for your time. Pleasure. Yeah. It's lovely to, to hear and feel the passion for Fercullen here and I'm looking forward to some more great things coming out of the local distillery for you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Your local distillery. Yeah. It's nice to be able to say that. Yeah. I know that. Back in the spring you mentioned your stout cask and my folks they actually came down and picked up a bottle. Oh, brilliant. Fair Play . So it's at home, which I, I haven't opened. It'll go back Stateside I look forward to sharing that with some good friends over there. So we should say Sláinte, we'll wrap this up. Yes. Yep. Thank you, Sláinte and thanks again.

Speaker 1 (41:45): Thanks for taking the time to listen to this episode. You'll find more episodes wherever you get your podcasts, and you'll find the My Favorite Irish video series at IrishWhiskeyLAD.com. That's Irish whiskey with an e , L A D .com. Until next time. Sláinte mhaith