00;00;00;18 - 00;00;03;19 I would never thought I would see this in my life.

00;00;03;27 - 00;00;07;25 These individuals showing up at our library, looking purposely

00;00;07;25 - 00;00;12;12 for a confrontation and video taping themselves with their smartphones.

00;00;12;24 - 00;00;16;09 Welcome to CADL Cast with Capital Area District Libraries.

00;00;16;09 - 00;00;18;16 Executive Director Scott Duimstra.

00;00;18;22 - 00;00;20;27 Welcome to another episode of CADL Cast.

00;00;21;03 - 00;00;25;10 Libraries across the state and country are witnessing an unprecedented uptick

00;00;25;10 - 00;00;26;22 in book challenges.

00;00;26;22 - 00;00;28;25 The future of a West Michigan library itself.

00;00;28;25 - 00;00;30;12 The impact of these book challenges.

00;00;30;12 - 00;00;33;27 When a small group succeeded in their campaign against the library's

00;00;33;27 - 00;00;38;02 millage renewal over a small offering of LGBTQ materials,

00;00;38;14 - 00;00;41;23 essentially removing 85% of the library's budget.

00;00;42;10 - 00;00;46;15 Joining us today is Larry Walton, the Library Board president of Patmos Library.

00;00;46;22 - 00;00;49;07 Larry, thank you so much for joining us at CADL Cast.

00;00;49;07 - 00;00;51;08 Yes, thank you for having me this morning.

00;00;51;08 - 00;00;53;08 I appreciate that for getting the word out.

00;00;54;00 - 00;00;56;16 And just to kind of get the word out, can you tell us

00;00;56;23 - 00;00;59;12 more a bit about the situation and how it came to be?

00;00;59;23 - 00;01;04;14 So. So, yes, just to summarize this quickly,

00;01;04;14 - 00;01;07;18 because there is quite a year long history

00;01;07;18 - 00;01;11;09 behind this tale and this situation.

00;01;11;09 - 00;01;15;21 But you you mentioned that there was there was

00;01;15;21 - 00;01;18;23 and is still an organized group of what's called

00;01;18;23 - 00;01;21;09 Jamestown conservatives.

00;01;21;24 - 00;01;26;20 And that that is a group that has a lot of conservative roots

00;01;27;00 - 00;01;31;07 in this Jamestown area that is part of, I'll say, a Dutch reform

00;01;32;07 - 00;01;34;08 church group.

00;01;34;08 - 00;01;38;20 And they did they did organize because they

00;01;39;21 - 00;01;43;29 they were not happy with LGBTQ books

00;01;43;29 - 00;01;48;06 that were on our ARE and are still on our shelves. 00;01;48;06 - 00;01;53;04 And they were they were frustrated because they felt

00;01;53;04 - 00;01;58;22 that the library board of which I am part of, was not taking any action.

00;01;58;22 - 00;02;02;03 Therefore, their action was to simply

00;02;02;03 - 00;02;07;03 organize, have a “no campaign―, and ultimately

00;02;07;13 - 00;02;09;29 the millage failed on August 2nd,

00;02;11;19 - 00;02;13;15 thus potentially resulting

00;02;13;15 - 00;02;16;25 in the closing, the future closing of our doors.

00;02;17;11 - 00;02;20;10 And I think that's what a lot of people don't realize.

00;02;20;10 - 00;02;24;06 And even when I read about the story that that even the vote

00;02;24;06 - 00;02;28;04 no, people were like, well, no one will essentially close the library.

00;02;28;04 - 00;02;29;14 There will be other ways to fund it.

00;02;29;14 - 00;02;31;19 And I don't think people realize, no, there isn't.

00;02;31;19 - 00;02;34;05 These operational millages are essential.

00;02;34;05 - 00;02;39;02 And so the library gained national attention when the millage failed.

00;02;39;17 - 00;02;43;20 How is it impacted the library and the community to be at the center

00;02;43;20 - 00;02;45;00 of the Book Banning debate? 00;02;46;01 - 00;02;47;14 So so first off,

00;02;47;14 - 00;02;52;01 the words address of our

00;02;53;02 - 00;02;55;05 our library staff

00;02;55;05 - 00;02;57;08 was already stressed because

00;02;58;11 - 00;03;01;21 we've had two directors quit this year

00;03;01;21 - 00;03;06;02 due to harassment and safety concerns

00;03;06;15 - 00;03;10;28 that the conservative group was initiating unfortunate.

00;03;10;28 - 00;03;15;05 I would never thought I would see this in my life that we

00;03;15;18 - 00;03;19;19 that we did experience these individuals showing up at our library

00;03;20;02 - 00;03;23;22 and looking for looking purposely for a confrontation

00;03;23;22 - 00;03;27;00 and videotaping themselves with their smartphones.

00;03;27;17 - 00;03;31;28 So they were looking they were looking to confront the directors.

00;03;32;08 - 00;03;35;17 We saw we lost two directors this year.

00;03;35;26 - 00;03;39;11 We are still without a director, which leads up to the stress

00;03;40;02 - 00;03;42;19 going into the into the vote.

00;03;43;01 - 00;03;45;27 We had no directors, so the staff was out

00;03;45;29 - 00;03;49;15 stressed due to picking up the slack of the director.

00;03;49;15 - 00;03;53;12 The board members picking up the slack of of not having a director,

00;03;54;08 - 00;03;57;02 and then all of a sudden it's voted down.

00;03;57;02 - 00;04;02;19 So now you have the added stress of, well, I'm going to lose my job,

00;04;03;07 - 00;04;05;20 the doors are going to close and I'm going to lose my job.

00;04;05;20 - 00;04;10;27 So that, you know, that's very the anxiety these the stress levels.

00;04;12;15 - 00;04;12;25 They are

00;04;12;25 - 00;04;16;22 still you know, this this wasn't this, you know, it's what, three weeks away?

00;04;16;29 - 00;04;17;15 Yeah.

00;04;17;15 - 00;04;22;13 So it's still very recent and it's still very hard at this point.

00;04;22;16 - 00;04;24;05 So. Sure.

00;04;24;05 - 00;04;25;13 And I know you've gotten

00;04;25;13 - 00;04;29;29 a lot of national attention and local and state attention as well, too.

00;04;30;00 - 00;04;33;08 Can you tell us about the support that you've received in response?

00;04;33;14 - 00;04;36;23 So so, yes, I want to break that up in two regards there.

00;04;36;23 - 00;04;42;10 There is the local community support outpouring, which is phenomenal. 00;04;42;26 - 00;04;48;13 So a lot of our community, we are just short of 10,000 people in our community.

00;04;48;13 - 00;04;52;10 We are a very fast growing community in our area.

00;04;52;10 - 00;04;56;14 Be in our location close to Grand Rapids, but still being in the country,

00;04;56;14 - 00;05;00;12 it's a it's a very popular area for people to move into.

00;05;00;28 - 00;05;04;02 So first off, there was a large portion of our community

00;05;04;02 - 00;05;06;10 that was not aware that this was going on.

00;05;06;16 - 00;05;10;22 Now they do this this local and national attention

00;05;10;22 - 00;05;14;24 has gotten the word out that this is a major issue.

00;05;14;24 - 00;05;16;16 This is a national issue.

00;05;16;16 - 00;05;21;04 And in our small town is in the spotlight this whole month.

00;05;21;04 - 00;05;25;08 So so the local community has come out

00;05;25;16 - 00;05;28;26 our last board meeting had a record number of people.

00;05;28;26 - 00;05;33;15 We were almost at 200 people showing up to a board meeting.

00;05;33;15 - 00;05;34;20 That's wow.

00;05;34;20 - 00;05;40;22 We jokingly say a little over a year ago and for the last 20 years, 00;05;40;26 - 00;05;44;15 we had no public show up to our board meetings.

00;05;44;19 - 00;05;46;23 Now you're the hottest ticket in town. So we

00;05;47;23 - 00;05;49;15 we we are

00;05;49;15 - 00;05;54;21 unfortunately unfortunately we we we expect and anticipate large

00;05;54;21 - 00;05;57;26 audience is now we welcome

00;05;57;26 - 00;06;00;25 feedback, you know, so it's all good.

00;06;01;09 - 00;06;04;16 So the local support has been phenomenal.

00;06;04;16 - 00;06;08;13 And of course nationally we never expected that

00;06;09;11 - 00;06;13;13 there was an article by Bridge, Michigan, that

00;06;14;11 - 00;06;17;20 that one article was probably the first article that came out

00;06;18;04 - 00;06;22;03 and that really exploded and exploded nationally.

00;06;22;03 - 00;06;26;24 So a national and national attention everywhere.

00;06;26;24 - 00;06;30;27 So you should I know it's very stressful, but just as someone in the

00;06;30;27 - 00;06;34;15 library community that should be really proud of this, you're standing up

00;06;34;15 - 00;06;38;11 for kind of the essential purpose of public libraries,

00;06;38;11 - 00;06;42;06 which is access to all and that First Amendment rights.

00;06;42;06 - 00;06;48;01 And and we in the library community, not only just your local residents, but

00;06;48;02 - 00;06;52;20 but those of us in the library community are truly behind and support you.

00;06;52;20 - 00;06;57;05 And I know Millages, even just in a normal time can be very stressful.

00;06;57;05 - 00;07;01;20 But with yours not passing, you are putting it back on the ballot

00;07;01;29 - 00;07;02;21 later this year.

00;07;02;21 - 00;07;04;24 So can you tell us how that's going

00;07;04;24 - 00;07;08;06 and if there's anything community members can do to lend their support?

00;07;08;21 - 00;07;09;18 So so yeah.

00;07;09;18 - 00;07;14;13 So we did quickly we had we during our board meeting

00;07;14;24 - 00;07;17;21 had to make a choice between three options

00;07;18;04 - 00;07;20;18 in regards to re pursuing a millage.

00;07;20;27 - 00;07;23;21 As you stated, 85% of our budget is the millage.

00;07;23;21 - 00;07;29;03 So the only way to keep our doors open is to pursue our millage long term.

00;07;29;03 - 00;07;31;29 I say that long term because of course we've gotten

00;07;32;06 - 00;07;35;25 an influx of funds coming in from donations 00;07;35;25 - 00;07;40;17 that will keep us open for a year, but long term ten years.

00;07;40;17 - 00;07;42;01 I have to have that millage.

00;07;42;01 - 00;07;47;01 So we we voted, we made a decision to pursue

00;07;47;01 - 00;07;50;23 quickly this come this coming November ballot.

00;07;50;23 - 00;07;52;14 We are pursuing that.

00;07;52;14 - 00;07;55;07 And we just formed

00;07;55;07 - 00;07;57;17 our millage committee last night

00;07;58;12 - 00;08;00;24 assigned I assigned

00;08;00;24 - 00;08;03;16 action items last night quickly

00;08;04;04 - 00;08;06;16 this attention has allowed us

00;08;06;16 - 00;08;09;17 to receive a lot of volunteers.

00;08;09;28 - 00;08;11;05 And your question?

00;08;11;05 - 00;08;13;25 We need still more volunteers.

00;08;13;25 - 00;08;17;25 We still need local volunteers to help out with our committee.

00;08;17;25 - 00;08;21;15 So that's the first thing I'm asking for, is for individuals

00;08;21;15 - 00;08;25;01 to contact the library, contact myself to help out.

00;08;25;01 - 00;08;27;17 If you can, to volunteer with this committee.

00;08;28;05 - 00;08;31;01 We call it the yes committee. And then

00;08;32;26 - 00;08;33;26 here again,

00;08;33;26 - 00;08;37;23 support, if you can't be on the millage, simply

00;08;37;23 - 00;08;42;04 if you can volunteer to put a yes sign in your yard, it's that simple.

00;08;42;09 - 00;08;44;14 You can get a hold of us will be

00;08;45;23 - 00;08;49;01 put place in order to to manufacture yes.

00;08;49;01 - 00;08;54;12 Signs to get the word out and just to have a large viewing of.

00;08;54;12 - 00;08;58;05 Yes signs throughout our community would be would be phenomenal.

00;08;58;08 - 00;09;01;06 So that's what we're hoping for.

00;09;01;06 - 00;09;04;25 We're anticipating and spreading the word

00;09;04;25 - 00;09;09;03 to get a larger portion of our residents

00;09;09;03 - 00;09;11;25 to come out to vote, this time in the November.

00;09;12;03 - 00;09;15;25 The August was obviously during that time frame.

00;09;15;25 - 00;09;20;09 August is of a very much smaller turnout during that time.

00;09;20;09 - 00;09;24;24 So it is and we were Capital Area District Libraries system

00;09;24;24 - 00;09;30;04 our operational millage was on the the the August ballot as well too

00;09;30;04 - 00;09;33;09 in a lot of your planning as you just you need people

00;09;33;09 - 00;09;37;10 who use the library to get out and vote to show up at the polls.

00;09;37;10 - 00;09;39;14 And I think what you said is essential.

00;09;39;14 - 00;09;42;06 Like you need to if you support the library,

00;09;42;06 - 00;09;45;29 you need to show up at the polls or vote however you vote.

00;09;45;29 - 00;09;50;07 And and it's not just sit back and yeah, it'll pass,

00;09;50;07 - 00;09;54;12 but no, you have to be an active voter if you do see the value of the library.

00;09;54;12 - 00;09;55;18 Yes, very, very good.

00;09;55;18 - 00;10;01;08 We need everybody, pro library supporters to come out and vote. Yes.

00;10;01;09 - 00;10;02;02 Bottom line.

00;10;02;02 - 00;10;07;11 So and what are you hoping that listeners take away from this conversation?

00;10;07;19 - 00;10;12;12 So so what I'm hoping they take away is the simple statement

00;10;12;15 - 00;10;15;13 that all public libraries are

00;10;15;13 - 00;10;18;19 for everyone, that that's key.

00;10;18;28 - 00;10;21;12 That is a key element.

00;10;21;12 - 00;10;23;23 The second thing I would take away

00;10;24;03 - 00;10;28;02 from from this experience of listening

00;10;29;04 - 00;10;30;01 to our

00;10;30;01 - 00;10;33;25 to our community, to our patrons, is just simply

00;10;35;02 - 00;10;39;11 you as parents taking your children to a public library.

00;10;39;22 - 00;10;43;14 You're responsible for your children.

00;10;43;14 - 00;10;44;29 You monitor your children.

00;10;44;29 - 00;10;49;10 You monitor what your children, what section of the library they're in,

00;10;50;05 - 00;10;55;03 what books they may be looking at you as the parent are responsible.

00;10;55;03 - 00;11;00;16 We as the library are catering to all aspects of our community.

00;11;01;00 - 00;11;03;00 You could not have said it better, Larry.

00;11;03;00 - 00;11;06;09 And for our listeners, I will also add legally,

00;11;06;09 - 00;11;09;17 library employees cannot act in place of a parent.

00;11;09;17 - 00;11;14;27 So if you if you want your child to use the library

00;11;14;27 - 00;11;18;03 and the library in the way that you imagine them using that book,

00;11;18;23 - 00;11;22;14 show up with them and visit the library with them. 00;11;22;14 - 00;11;26;14 And they will they will follow your lead, so... Yes.

00;11;27;04 - 00;11;28;03 Thank you.

00;11;28;03 - 00;11;32;02 Is there anything you'd like to say to listeners who voted no for the library

00;11;32;02 - 00;11;37;02 millage or those who are undecided on where they stand on the library vote? Yes.

00;11;37;28 - 00;11;40;20 Our millage campaign we talked about this last night,

00;11;40;20 - 00;11;44;25 our millage committee will be campaigning to increase

00;11;46;05 - 00;11;47;08 the awareness of

00;11;47;08 - 00;11;50;10 what our millage is asking for.

00;11;50;10 - 00;11;51;23 Is millage.

00;11;51;23 - 00;11;55;00 Language is confusing and you show up to vote.

00;11;55;11 - 00;12;01;05 And we know that when you show up and you see a word that says increase

00;12;01;07 - 00;12;06;15 during these time of higher inflation and money is very tight for people.

00;12;06;15 - 00;12;09;19 And right away they read and see a word increase.

00;12;09;19 - 00;12;13;27 I'm letting our people know that our increase

00;12;14;16 - 00;12;18;11 represents what we call a 0.1 mill increase,

00;12;18;24 - 00;12;22;09 that 0.1 mill for an average household represents

00;12;22;09 - 00;12;27;26 approximately an additional $20 to you per family all year.

00;12;27;26 - 00;12;31;07 So it's a very small amount from our point of view,

00;12;31;07 - 00;12;35;13 that additional money to the library represents roughly

00;12;36;13 - 00;12;39;26 around an additional $60,000 a year.

00;12;40;10 - 00;12;43;26 And that small amount of money, we consider

00;12;43;26 - 00;12;48;19 that small amount, that small amount of money

00;12;48;19 - 00;12;51;22 was being subsidized by our township.

00;12;52;04 - 00;12;53;11 And we,

00;12;54;15 - 00;12;57;18 in collaboration between the library board and the township

00;12;57;18 - 00;13;01;06 board, both agree that we would like the library to be

00;13;01;22 - 00;13;06;12 self-sufficient, self-funding entity of the township.

00;13;06;12 - 00;13;11;04 And so if the if the millage can support

00;13;11;13 - 00;13;14;18 without the township being involved with subsidizing,

00;13;14;18 - 00;13;17;28 then we were both agreement that this this is a good thing.

00;13;18;17 - 00;13;23;09 But we we know in the next two months we have to do a better job

00;13;23;09 - 00;13;28;24 communicating that that slight increase is not a large dollar amount,

00;13;28;24 - 00;13;31;23 but as a whole it helps keep our doors open.

00;13;32;29 - 00;13;35;14 It helps to deal with inflationary costs

00;13;35;14 - 00;13;37;20 with wages of our staff.

00;13;38;14 - 00;13;42;06 It helps us to even increase hours in

00;13;42;26 - 00;13;46;29 and it will help us find a new director.

00;13;46;29 - 00;13;49;13 They said again without a director.

00;13;49;13 - 00;13;53;08 And we found and we know that

00;13;53;08 - 00;13;57;25 for us to obtain a quality director that we need to start offering

00;13;59;08 - 00;14;00;13 some supplement or

00;14;00;13 - 00;14;03;03 supplementary benefits with that position.

00;14;03;12 - 00;14;05;00 We didn't have that in the past.

00;14;05;00 - 00;14;06;20 We do need to offer that.

00;14;06;20 - 00;14;12;13 So so there are some costs to having a quality library in our area.

00;14;12;21 - 00;14;14;06 I agree with that.

00;14;14;06 - 00;14;17;03 Quality library listeners, you get that money back.

00;14;17;03 - 00;14;20;23 I mean, for the increase that Larry talked about, check out two items a year.

00;14;21;00 - 00;14;22;06 You get that back already.

00;14;22;06 - 00;14;25;25 So it's very easy to get your return on investment.

00;14;25;25 - 00;14;28;02 And I thank you very. That's a great word.

00;14;28;02 - 00;14;28;28 That's a great. Word.

00;14;28;28 - 00;14;31;02 Now, this is a. Library type.

00;14;31;02 - 00;14;35;21 Podcast, so we always like to end with a suggestion from our guests.

00;14;35;21 - 00;14;38;15 So any titles that you're reading that you're watching

00;14;38;15 - 00;14;41;12 or that you're listening to, that you would recommend to our listeners.

00;14;41;21 - 00;14;45;10 Okay, so what, what one of my favorites is

00;14;45;10 - 00;14;48;21 I want to suggest to the audiences I read

00;14;48;21 - 00;14;51;01 an author named Robert Parker.

00;14;51;24 - 00;14;55;04 Robert Parker has a series called The Spenser Series.

00;14;55;04 - 00;14;58;04 And there's actually been a movie out there called

00;14;58;04 - 00;15;01;05 Spenser on the on the series of books.

00;15;01;20 - 00;15;06;15 But I'm recommending Robert Parker's Spenser series, and I love it

00;15;06;15 - 00;15;11;23 just because it's there is lots of action and there is actually lots of humor 00;15;12;29 - 00;15;14;10 in these actions.

00;15;14;10 - 00;15;18;04 So any way I just wanted to throw that out as being one of my favorites.

00;15;18;09 - 00;15;19;18 It's great suggestion.

00;15;19;18 - 00;15;20;12 Great suggestion.

00;15;20;12 - 00;15;23;20 Larry, thank you so much for joining us on CADL Cast today.

00;15;23;26 - 00;15;25;05 We wish you the best of luck.

00;15;25;05 - 00;15;27;20 I'm very confident that that your message will pass.

00;15;27;20 - 00;15;28;21 But you have

00;15;28;21 - 00;15;32;17 many fans here in the Ingham County area and we'll be watching with close eyes.

00;15;32;27 - 00;15;34;26 Thank you. Thank you for everything.

00;15;34;26 - 00;15;35;21 And for our listeners,

00;15;35;21 - 00;15;39;10 thank you so much for listening to this latest episode of CADL Cast.

00;15;39;28 - 00;15;41;21 Don't miss another great interview.

00;15;41;21 - 00;15;47;12 Subscribe to the CADL Cast podcast and share it with a friend.

00;15;47;12 - 00;15;48;15 Hey Stevie in the morning

00;15;48;15 - 00;15;51;17 with DeDe's Weekly Downloads from Capital Area District Libraries,

00;15;51;21 - 00;15;54;17 this week's title is Didn’t We Almost Have It All:

00;15;54;23 - 00;15;57;13 In Defense of Whitney Houston by Garrett Kennedy.

00;15;57;20 - 00;16;00;15 Music Journalist Kennedy brings years of research

00;16;00;21 - 00;16;04;10 plus respect for his subject to this examination

00;16;04;16 - 00;16;08;29 of the complexities of Houston's life, music and legacy.

00;16;09;01 - 00;16;12;18 To stream or download this or other featured titles, visit

00;16;12;18 - 00;16;15;29 cadl.org/dede, Stacks

00;16;15;29 - 00;16;20;00 92.1.