INTRODUCTION: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast,

INTRODUCTION: where we share learning and expertise in

INTRODUCTION: child protection from inside and outside

INTRODUCTION: of the organisation.

INTRODUCTION: We aim to create debate, encourage

INTRODUCTION: reflection and share good practise on how

INTRODUCTION: we can all work together to keep babies,

INTRODUCTION: children and young people safe.

ALI BROWN: Hi and welcome to the latest NSPCC Learning

ALI BROWN: Podcast. The episode you're about to listen

ALI BROWN: to was recorded in May 2022

ALI BROWN: and focuses on a UK-wide study

ALI BROWN: by the University of Bedfordshire, Safer

ALI BROWN: Young Lives Research Centre in partnership

ALI BROWN: with the Association for Young People's

ALI BROWN: Health. The study explored the mental health

ALI BROWN: and emotional wellbeing impacts of

ALI BROWN: experiencing childhood sexual abuse in

ALI BROWN: adolescence.

ALI BROWN: This has resulted in the development of

ALI BROWN: learning resources and a report which you'll

ALI BROWN: find links to on this podcast's webpage.

ALI BROWN: Chloe Gill, the NSPCC's Senior Research

ALI BROWN: and Evaluation Officer, met with two of the

ALI BROWN: report authors, Dr. Helen Beckett and

ALI BROWN: Dr. Deborah Allnock, Director and Senior

ALI BROWN: Research Fellow respectively, at the Safer

ALI BROWN: Young Lives Research Centre.

ALI BROWN: In this episode, they discuss the gaps they

ALI BROWN: aimed to fill around the impacts of

ALI BROWN: experiencing sexual abuse during adolescence;

ALI BROWN: the importance of learning from young people

ALI BROWN: themselves, taking a trauma-informed approach

ALI BROWN: so that the work was safe, ethical and

ALI BROWN: supportive for the young people

ALI BROWN: participating; what young people said about

ALI BROWN: how sexual abuse had impacted their mental

ALI BROWN: health, emotional wellbeing, and how they

ALI BROWN: navigated daily life; the resources

ALI BROWN: that have been developed; and the six pillars

ALI BROWN: of an effective adolescence response.

ALI BROWN: Chloe began by asking Helen

ALI BROWN: and Deborah about why they embarked on

ALI BROWN: researching the wellbeing needs of

ALI BROWN: adolescents who have experienced sexual

ALI BROWN: abuse.

CHLOE GILL: To get going then can we first of all, tell

CHLOE GILL: me a bit about how this work

CHLOE GILL: came about in the first place?

CHLOE GILL: So the research, the report and the

CHLOE GILL: resources: where did that come from?

HELEN BECKETT: Well, I'll kick off with that.

HELEN BECKETT: I suppose the first thing to say is it

HELEN BECKETT: was in response to a call that NSPCC

HELEN BECKETT: and ESRC put out calling

HELEN BECKETT: for applications for funding for research

HELEN BECKETT: about how children and young people could

HELEN BECKETT: be better supported after their

HELEN BECKETT: experiences of abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: And I guess in terms of what the piece of

HELEN BECKETT: work focused on: it focused particularly

HELEN BECKETT: on young people's experiences of

HELEN BECKETT: experiencing sexual abuse in adolescence

HELEN BECKETT: specifically, and that was really-- we

HELEN BECKETT: kind of knew from other work that we've

HELEN BECKETT: done at the centre-- at the centre we

HELEN BECKETT: have expertise in research on sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse and also participatory approaches,

HELEN BECKETT: and we knew from that work that actually

HELEN BECKETT: there were a number of gaps in our

HELEN BECKETT: knowledge base around this. And that's

HELEN BECKETT: really what drove us to put the

HELEN BECKETT: application in in the first place.

HELEN BECKETT: We really wanted to try to start to fill

HELEN BECKETT: some of these gaps in the research

HELEN BECKETT: evidence base.

HELEN BECKETT: And we put the application in with our

HELEN BECKETT: partner, the Association of Young

HELEN BECKETT: People's Health, who also brought

HELEN BECKETT: participatory experience to the project.

HELEN BECKETT: But alongside that brought a real depth

HELEN BECKETT: of expertise around young people's

HELEN BECKETT: health, which we felt was very

HELEN BECKETT: complementary for this particular call,

HELEN BECKETT: looking at mental health and wellbeing.

HELEN BECKETT: So as I say, the focus of the work was

HELEN BECKETT: informed by gaps in the literature.

HELEN BECKETT: And I suppose there were three key things

HELEN BECKETT: really that was informing how we

HELEN BECKETT: approached this work.

HELEN BECKETT: The first was: Debbie and colleagues did

HELEN BECKETT: a literature review at the start and just

HELEN BECKETT: reinforced that message that actually

HELEN BECKETT: there's very little in the existing body

HELEN BECKETT: of research literature that is specific

HELEN BECKETT: to adolescence and experiencing sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse in adolescence.

HELEN BECKETT: What's already there either looks at

HELEN BECKETT: younger children or just looks at

HELEN BECKETT: children and young people as one

HELEN BECKETT: category and doesn't differentiate their

HELEN BECKETT: experience.

HELEN BECKETT: But actually we know really clearly from

HELEN BECKETT: research that adolescence is really quite

HELEN BECKETT: a specific and unique life phase.

HELEN BECKETT: And so we felt it was really important to

HELEN BECKETT: understand what experiencing abuse in

HELEN BECKETT: this distinct life phase meant for

HELEN BECKETT: children and young people, how it

HELEN BECKETT: impacted them and what they need.

HELEN BECKETT: And because adolescence is so different

HELEN BECKETT: to being a younger child or being an

HELEN BECKETT: adult, we hypothesised that

HELEN BECKETT: young people's experiences and needs

HELEN BECKETT: would probably be different than those of

HELEN BECKETT: younger children, and that actually we

HELEN BECKETT: needed to be able to understand that to

HELEN BECKETT: inform a better response that is better

HELEN BECKETT: fitted for young people who experience

HELEN BECKETT: sexual abuse in adolescence.

HELEN BECKETT: And the other kind of -- it's not an

HELEN BECKETT: entire gap in the literature, there are

HELEN BECKETT: some studies -- but certainly there's a

HELEN BECKETT: very clear need in the existing body of

HELEN BECKETT: knowledge to learn more from children and

HELEN BECKETT: young people themselves.

HELEN BECKETT: Very often conversations around mental

HELEN BECKETT: health and wellbeing following abuse are

HELEN BECKETT: dominated by professional narratives, and

HELEN BECKETT: it's really important to us at the Centre

HELEN BECKETT: that all of the work we do tries to

HELEN BECKETT: centre learning from children and young

HELEN BECKETT: people. And so we really wanted to make

HELEN BECKETT: sure this study -- that was the main

HELEN BECKETT: focus of it.

HELEN BECKETT: What can children and young people teach

HELEN BECKETT: us about their experiences, what their

HELEN BECKETT: needs are, how they want us to respond?

HELEN BECKETT: Hence the name of the research: 'Learning

HELEN BECKETT: from the Experts'. Young people are the

HELEN BECKETT: experts in their lives.

HELEN BECKETT: Debbie, do you want to talk a wee bit

HELEN BECKETT: then about what that meant for why we did

HELEN BECKETT: the research?

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Yup. Yup. So to address

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: those gaps that Helen just talked

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: through, we focused on adolescence.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So in terms of the age range

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of young people, it was a broad age

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: range of 11 to 18 initially, but we did

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: include a few young people up to the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: age of 21.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Sexual abuse, in terms of our

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: definitions, was defined as per

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: at the time of working together [in]

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: 2015, which takes a broad

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: definition of sexual abuse, including

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: online, as well as abuse by

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: peers or adults, males and females,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: etcetera. So those young people

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: who we wanted to engage with with this

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: research could have a range of these

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: different experiences.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: But we also did recognise that young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people may experience other forms of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: abuse and neglect which will also shape

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: these impacts.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So we also, as Helen noted, focused

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: on sexual abuse that occurs in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: adolescence -- again recognising that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: many young people may have experienced

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: ongoing abuse from younger ages that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: extend into their adolescence -- or

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: separate experiences of abuse at

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: younger ages, in addition to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: other abuse that they experience in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: adolescence.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: The aim was to prioritise and amplify

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: young people's views and their

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: self-defined impacts and needs related

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to this. So rather than researchers or

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: practitioners identifying what those

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: impacts are, we really wanted to hear

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: from young people about what they said

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: impacted them.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And so our work with young people was

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: really at the heart of this research. Integral

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to all of this, we also built into the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: project a number of youth advisor

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: posts.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: We had four youth advisors involved in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: helping us think about the project

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: design, testing out our tools and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: methods. They were involved in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: presentations to our funders and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: at conferences and within our

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: stakeholder consultations.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And this really helped keep us grounded

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: in young people's needs and what were

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the right questions to ask.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Helen, you might want to speak about

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the trauma-informed approach?

HELEN BECKETT: Yeah. And I suppose it's helpful to

HELEN BECKETT: briefly reflect on the context of this to

HELEN BECKETT: start.

HELEN BECKETT: You know, we know from our work, and I

HELEN BECKETT: know you'll say it as well, that very

HELEN BECKETT: often there can be a real kind of

HELEN BECKETT: reticence or anxiety around involving

HELEN BECKETT: young people who've experienced sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse in research, and quite rightly:

HELEN BECKETT: thinking about kind of the impact it

HELEN BECKETT: might have and might it have any negative

HELEN BECKETT: impacts on them.

HELEN BECKETT: But actually what we've seen is sometimes

HELEN BECKETT: that anxiety can override thinking about

HELEN BECKETT: the positive experience that taking part

HELEN BECKETT: in research can actually be for young

HELEN BECKETT: people. And so for us as a Centre, and in

HELEN BECKETT: this project, it was absolutely critical

HELEN BECKETT: that we found ways to engage children and

HELEN BECKETT: young people, but that we did so in

HELEN BECKETT: a way that was safe, ethical, meaningful,

HELEN BECKETT: and that we really paid attention to

HELEN BECKETT: that. So I know probably most people

HELEN BECKETT: listening have heard the phrase of being

HELEN BECKETT: 'trauma-informed'. There's a lot of talk

HELEN BECKETT: about it over the last number of years,

HELEN BECKETT: and we tried to be trauma-informed in how

HELEN BECKETT: we actually approached this research as

HELEN BECKETT: well.

HELEN BECKETT: We felt it was really important to engage

HELEN BECKETT: in these difficult conversations about

HELEN BECKETT: how do you talk about things that may be

HELEN BECKETT: upsetting? How do you provide wraparound

HELEN BECKETT: support? You know, how do you kind of

HELEN BECKETT: engage with these tensions between the

HELEN BECKETT: benefits of taking part and the potential

HELEN BECKETT: negative impacts of taking part?

HELEN BECKETT: But for us it felt really important to do

HELEN BECKETT: that because far too often young people

HELEN BECKETT: who've experienced sexual abuse are

HELEN BECKETT: silenced and they're stigmatised.

HELEN BECKETT: And in fact, we know that's an issue in

HELEN BECKETT: society around sexual abuse: the

HELEN BECKETT: silencing and stigmatisation of people.

HELEN BECKETT: And actually finding safe and meaningful

HELEN BECKETT: ways for young people to express their

HELEN BECKETT: views, their needs, their wants is really

HELEN BECKETT: important in countering that stigma and

HELEN BECKETT: that silencing and also in letting young

HELEN BECKETT: people realise their right to have a say

HELEN BECKETT: about matters that affect them.

HELEN BECKETT: And in addition to that, we have

HELEN BECKETT: consistently found over the last

HELEN BECKETT: 15 years of research at the Centre, that

HELEN BECKETT: we learn so much from children and young

HELEN BECKETT: people that we would not have found out

HELEN BECKETT: if we only engaged professionals in our

HELEN BECKETT: research. It's been really challenging in

HELEN BECKETT: a positive way to us to hear from

HELEN BECKETT: children and young people, to actually

HELEN BECKETT: realise that their priorities are not

HELEN BECKETT: necessarily what our priorities might be

HELEN BECKETT: and to hear directly from them.

HELEN BECKETT: So we kind of drew on approaches that

HELEN BECKETT: we've developed over the last 15 years

HELEN BECKETT: thinking about how do we safely hold

HELEN BECKETT: young people to take part in the

HELEN BECKETT: research? And I guess it's important to

HELEN BECKETT: say you can't ever eliminate risk.

HELEN BECKETT: Nobody can in any research.

HELEN BECKETT: And it certainly wasn't about eliminating

HELEN BECKETT: risk, but it was about identifying what

HELEN BECKETT: potential risks might be and what support

HELEN BECKETT: structures could we put in place to kind

HELEN BECKETT: of help hold some of that stuff.

HELEN BECKETT: So we talk about this in the report.

HELEN BECKETT: We have a section on the trauma-informed

HELEN BECKETT: approach that we took.

HELEN BECKETT: But it included things like doing 'risk

HELEN BECKETT: and needs assessments' for young people

HELEN BECKETT: to identify what the risks might be.

HELEN BECKETT: That wasn't to say they couldn't take

HELEN BECKETT: part if there were risks, but it was to

HELEN BECKETT: say, "Well, what can we put in place to

HELEN BECKETT: counter some of these risks?" And

HELEN BECKETT: actually, what can we do for this

HELEN BECKETT: particular young person to mean their

HELEN BECKETT: engagement is the best possible

HELEN BECKETT: experience for them?

HELEN BECKETT: So we looked at that.

HELEN BECKETT: We worked in partnership with the

HELEN BECKETT: agencies, and that's really important so

HELEN BECKETT: that every young person who took part had

HELEN BECKETT: a support worker lined up to provide

HELEN BECKETT: wraparound support.

HELEN BECKETT: So they spoke to them before they took

HELEN BECKETT: part, they were available while they were

HELEN BECKETT: taking part and they proactively followed

HELEN BECKETT: up.

HELEN BECKETT: But choice and control was absolutely

HELEN BECKETT: central to how we do this.

HELEN BECKETT: We know that an experience of abuse

HELEN BECKETT: is all about the other's wants and needs

HELEN BECKETT: and the other's control.

HELEN BECKETT: And we really wanted to make sure that we

HELEN BECKETT: didn't do anything that would replicate

HELEN BECKETT: those dynamics and, in fact, proactively

HELEN BECKETT: tried to offset those dynamics and gave

HELEN BECKETT: young people as much choice and control

HELEN BECKETT: as to how they took part in our research.

HELEN BECKETT: And indeed, if they took part, and if it

HELEN BECKETT: wasn't the right thing for them, you

HELEN BECKETT: know, we didn't push that at all.

CHLOE GILL: Great, thank you, you've really clearly

CHLOE GILL: explained the importance of this research

CHLOE GILL: and the importance of involving young people

CHLOE GILL: in different roles in the research.

CHLOE GILL: And it'll be interesting to read the report

CHLOE GILL: and hear those practical tips and

CHLOE GILL: hear about how you went about doing the

CHLOE GILL: research. Now I want to

CHLOE GILL: ask you a little bit about the findings and

CHLOE GILL: if you could tell us what young people

CHLOE GILL: told you about how experiencing sexual

CHLOE GILL: abuse in adolescence impacted on them and

CHLOE GILL: what they wanted or needed in response to

CHLOE GILL: that.

HELEN BECKETT: That's the big question isn't it.

HELEN BECKETT: We could probably speak all day about

HELEN BECKETT: that. So what we thought we might do is,

HELEN BECKETT: kind of, just share a few overarching

HELEN BECKETT: themes that struck us.

HELEN BECKETT: I mean, this will come as no surprise,

HELEN BECKETT: you know: an experience of sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse in adolescence affected young

HELEN BECKETT: people's lives in a myriad of ways.

HELEN BECKETT: Their mental health and their emotional

HELEN BECKETT: wellbeing. And actually, as part of the

HELEN BECKETT: research, there were a range of

HELEN BECKETT: diagnosable mental health conditions

HELEN BECKETT: identified by young people that had come

HELEN BECKETT: as a result of their experience of sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: But I guess, and in some ways I was

HELEN BECKETT: maybe slightly surprised by this, the

HELEN BECKETT: degree to which actually what they really

HELEN BECKETT: talked about was the impacts on their

HELEN BECKETT: more general wellbeing.

HELEN BECKETT: So, yes, there's the point at which it

HELEN BECKETT: reached a threshold and will be diagnosed

HELEN BECKETT: and dealt with as mental health

HELEN BECKETT: difficulty. But actually most of what

HELEN BECKETT: young people shared was just the

HELEN BECKETT: day-to-day impacts on

HELEN BECKETT: their emotional wellbeing, on navigating

HELEN BECKETT: life and on their

HELEN BECKETT: emotions -- how they felt -- on their

HELEN BECKETT: behaviours and their interactions with

HELEN BECKETT: people and their relationships and how

HELEN BECKETT: they engaged in school and other

HELEN BECKETT: settings. So actually there were lots of

HELEN BECKETT: things that young people identified of

HELEN BECKETT: the... how an experience of abuse

HELEN BECKETT: affected the day and daily for them in

HELEN BECKETT: lots of different what may potentially

HELEN BECKETT: seem on their own, you know, maybe

HELEN BECKETT: insignificant ways.

HELEN BECKETT: But actually, when you added them up altogether, meant

HELEN BECKETT: that actually there really was a very

HELEN BECKETT: significant impact on navigating life and

HELEN BECKETT: on young people's emotional wellbeing.

HELEN BECKETT: Now I think what we discovered and what

HELEN BECKETT: young people shared is unfortunately a

HELEN BECKETT: lot of that was missed.

HELEN BECKETT: And I know that one of the particular

HELEN BECKETT: focuses of this call for research bids

HELEN BECKETT: when it came out was about learning

HELEN BECKETT: about what can we do better earlier on

HELEN BECKETT: before things reach a diagnosable mental

HELEN BECKETT: health stage.

HELEN BECKETT: And certainly what young people told us

HELEN BECKETT: is there were lots of things manifesting

HELEN BECKETT: in their lives that actually could be

HELEN BECKETT: picked up and could be seen and could be

HELEN BECKETT: intervened with at a very early stage.

HELEN BECKETT: But, unfortunately, most of them reported

HELEN BECKETT: that that didn't happen. That actually

HELEN BECKETT: there were quite a few missed

HELEN BECKETT: opportunities to intervene early on.

HELEN BECKETT: And I think one of the messages related

HELEN BECKETT: to that that came out is very often the

HELEN BECKETT: impacts on young people's emotional

HELEN BECKETT: health and wellbeing wasn't actually

HELEN BECKETT: really being picked up until people

HELEN BECKETT: actually found out about the abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: So unless the abuse was discovered or the

HELEN BECKETT: young person disclosed the abuse, even

HELEN BECKETT: though it may have happened some time

HELEN BECKETT: before and the young person had been

HELEN BECKETT: manifesting the impacts in many ways.

HELEN BECKETT: So it's not just about thinking

HELEN BECKETT: about emotional health and wellbeing

HELEN BECKETT: needs once there is a disclosure of

HELEN BECKETT: abuse, but it is about flipping that and

HELEN BECKETT: becoming much more proactive about: "is

HELEN BECKETT: something going on in this young person's

HELEN BECKETT: life? Are we seeing something changing or

HELEN BECKETT: something that doesn't quite add up?"

HELEN BECKETT: And, kind of, starting to engage in the

HELEN BECKETT: emotional health and wellbeing impacts in

HELEN BECKETT: the absence of disclosure or in the

HELEN BECKETT: absence of a diagnosis, because that

HELEN BECKETT: early intervention feels like a really

HELEN BECKETT: important phase.

HELEN BECKETT: I think one of the other, probably,

HELEN BECKETT: really overarching findings that struck

HELEN BECKETT: us as a team when we went through what

HELEN BECKETT: young people had shared was young people,

HELEN BECKETT: yes, of course, they talked about the

HELEN BECKETT: impact of the abuse itself on their

HELEN BECKETT: mental health and wellbeing.

HELEN BECKETT: But actually, much more frequently what

HELEN BECKETT: they talked about was the impact of other

HELEN BECKETT: people's reactions to their abuse on

HELEN BECKETT: their mental health and wellbeing.

HELEN BECKETT: And that struck me really significantly

HELEN BECKETT: as we were going through the data and

HELEN BECKETT: looking at what they were telling us,

HELEN BECKETT: because it was, "yes, of course, the

HELEN BECKETT: abuse has had an impact, but actually how

HELEN BECKETT: my teachers responded, how my family

HELEN BECKETT: responded, how my friends responded, how

HELEN BECKETT: going through a criminal justice process

HELEN BECKETT: impacted me; that massively impacted on

HELEN BECKETT: my emotional health and wellbeing." And

HELEN BECKETT: again, I suppose like the missed

HELEN BECKETT: opportunity message, there's also a

HELEN BECKETT: positive side to that because actually we

HELEN BECKETT: can have more control over how we respond

HELEN BECKETT: and how we support people to respond to

HELEN BECKETT: young people after sexual abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: And so that does feel slightly in our

HELEN BECKETT: gift to be able to make changes and

HELEN BECKETT: minimise the impact that those

HELEN BECKETT: engagements with other people and

HELEN BECKETT: reactions of other people have after

HELEN BECKETT: abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: So we thought it might be helpful just to

HELEN BECKETT: kind of, I suppose, give a couple of concrete

HELEN BECKETT: examples of that and maybe think across a

HELEN BECKETT: few spheres of young people's lives.

HELEN BECKETT: Because the other thing that consistently

HELEN BECKETT: came out and how young people talked

HELEN BECKETT: about emotional health and wellbeing

HELEN BECKETT: impacts, they didn't talk about it as a

HELEN BECKETT: vague concept -- somewhere up there --

HELEN BECKETT: they talked about how it impacted their

HELEN BECKETT: daily life. They talked about how it

HELEN BECKETT: manifested in the family, how it

HELEN BECKETT: manifested in school.

HELEN BECKETT: So we thought we might just take a bit of

HELEN BECKETT: a reflection on that. So Debbie, do you

HELEN BECKETT: want to kick off just a wee bit on, kind

HELEN BECKETT: of, what they talked about, how they

HELEN BECKETT: experience those impacts in the family

HELEN BECKETT: environment?

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Yeah, sure Helen, thanks.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So it's interesting because I think in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the wider literature on adolescence

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: and development, there's a sense that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: in adolescence the importance of family

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: decreases while the importance of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: peers and friends increase.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Now certainly we did see the importance

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of peers, and Helen is going to talk

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: about that in a minute.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: But young people talked extensively

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: about their families.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And so in that regard, family does

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: appear to still remain quite important

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to young people in terms of their

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: support.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: We saw some really great examples of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: positive family support.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Young people talked around

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: being reassured by their family members

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: that it wasn't their fault and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: advocating for their needs.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Particular sources of distress were

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: identified, though, by young people.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: These included things like fears and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: actual experiences of being blamed by

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the parents, or anger

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: and also awareness of, and a sense of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: responsibility for, how others might be

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: negatively affected by learning about

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the abuse.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: These concerns appear to be exacerbated

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: by that increase in cognitive capacity

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of their own age being adolescents,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: being-- becoming adults and developing

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: sexuality of adolescents as well.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So really, although we found

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: some of these negative experiences,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: there are those opportunities, I think,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: ways that parents can

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: be supported. Be supported

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to support their children through these

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: kinds of experiences.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Now, again, they.

HELEN BECKETT: We know that peers take on increasing

HELEN BECKETT: significance in adolescence and young

HELEN BECKETT: people spend more time with their peers

HELEN BECKETT: and outside of the family environment.

HELEN BECKETT: And again, it was it was a bit of a mixed

HELEN BECKETT: message in terms of young people's

HELEN BECKETT: experiences of their peers and how that

HELEN BECKETT: impacted upon their emotional wellbeing

HELEN BECKETT: and their mental health.

HELEN BECKETT: So, again, as Debbie has talked about

HELEN BECKETT: in the family, there were some lovely

HELEN BECKETT: examples of young people sharing the

HELEN BECKETT: really important and significant role

HELEN BECKETT: that their friends had in helping them

HELEN BECKETT: navigate life after abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: You know, both in terms of just being a

HELEN BECKETT: listening ear, providing support and

HELEN BECKETT: reassurance, there were also examples of

HELEN BECKETT: friends actually helping young people

HELEN BECKETT: access professional support when they

HELEN BECKETT: kind of... When something was shared,

HELEN BECKETT: they were like, "well, I think we might need

HELEN BECKETT: a bit of help about that." And they

HELEN BECKETT: helped them access that.

HELEN BECKETT: And also just, again, one of the messages

HELEN BECKETT: I think came across, Debbie didn't it,

HELEN BECKETT: was that, you know, you do still need to

HELEN BECKETT: do life, but you do also need to

HELEN BECKETT: impact... To process the impact of the

HELEN BECKETT: abuse. And so it's this kind of what's

HELEN BECKETT: this balance that you have in life where

HELEN BECKETT: actually you do need to kind of engage

HELEN BECKETT: with and process what's happened to you,

HELEN BECKETT: and that's really important to young

HELEN BECKETT: people. But they didn't feel they could

HELEN BECKETT: keep doing that all the time because that

HELEN BECKETT: would just be far too overwhelming.

HELEN BECKETT: So there was a really clear message as

HELEN BECKETT: well about the important -- I don't know

HELEN BECKETT: if source of distraction is the right

HELEN BECKETT: word -- but, you know, that friends could

HELEN BECKETT: give a sense of so-called normality and

HELEN BECKETT: distraction from having to be thinking

HELEN BECKETT: about what had happened to you all the

HELEN BECKETT: time and processing that.

HELEN BECKETT: So there were lovely examples of how

HELEN BECKETT: friends supported and that really feels

HELEN BECKETT: like actually an important message for us

HELEN BECKETT: to take on board in terms of where we can

HELEN BECKETT: invest a little more and support peers to

HELEN BECKETT: better support their friends when

HELEN BECKETT: something like this happens to them.

HELEN BECKETT: Unfortunately, however, there were also

HELEN BECKETT: quite a few examples of actually the

HELEN BECKETT: reactions of friends and peers actually

HELEN BECKETT: compounding the distress that young

HELEN BECKETT: people were experiencing rather than

HELEN BECKETT: alleviating it.

HELEN BECKETT: And these were really quite varied.

HELEN BECKETT: Some were really unintentional, and the

HELEN BECKETT: young people knew they were unintentional.

HELEN BECKETT: So it wasn't that their friend was trying

HELEN BECKETT: to hurt them, but their friend just...

HELEN BECKETT: They just didn't understand what they'd

HELEN BECKETT: been through and they didn't know what to

HELEN BECKETT: say or how to act.

HELEN BECKETT: And, you know, and I think that that

HELEN BECKETT: message came out really clearly that we

HELEN BECKETT: do need to think about how do we support

HELEN BECKETT: young people? What support can we put in

HELEN BECKETT: place for them? So if a friend shares

HELEN BECKETT: something like this that you know, that

HELEN BECKETT: they know how to deal with it without, of

HELEN BECKETT: course, because we don't want them feeling

HELEN BECKETT: it's their responsibility to fix things.

HELEN BECKETT: It's not. But how do they kind of respond

HELEN BECKETT: to it? But there were also,

HELEN BECKETT: unfortunately, some examples of actually,

HELEN BECKETT: kind of peers... And probably the best

HELEN BECKETT: way to say it is like turning on young

HELEN BECKETT: people, particularly in the examples

HELEN BECKETT: of peer-on-peer harm, of people

HELEN BECKETT: taking sides and blaming the young person

HELEN BECKETT: for what had happened and aligning with

HELEN BECKETT: the person that the young person said had

HELEN BECKETT: abused them and, kind of, undermining

HELEN BECKETT: their story and all of that type of

HELEN BECKETT: stuff. So there were really very

HELEN BECKETT: understandably distressing examples of

HELEN BECKETT: actually feeling you've been alienated by

HELEN BECKETT: your peers because of your experience of

HELEN BECKETT: abuse or you've been blamed that it was

HELEN BECKETT: somehow your fault. A bit like Debbie

HELEN BECKETT: talked about with parents, that fear as

HELEN BECKETT: well. And also

HELEN BECKETT: examples of young people, kind of,

HELEN BECKETT: breaking confidence.

HELEN BECKETT: So they thought they had told a friend in

HELEN BECKETT: confidence, but the friend then told

HELEN BECKETT: someone else. And again, back to what we

HELEN BECKETT: talked about earlier in the podcast, the

HELEN BECKETT: importance of control for young people

HELEN BECKETT: following the experience of abuse that

HELEN BECKETT: could feel like a real betrayal and a

HELEN BECKETT: real taking away of any control they had

HELEN BECKETT: when people shared their confidence.

HELEN BECKETT: And I guess the other thing, finally,

HELEN BECKETT: that came up, which feels really unique

HELEN BECKETT: to the adolescence life phase rather than

HELEN BECKETT: abuse experienced at a younger age, is

HELEN BECKETT: navigating intimate and sexual

HELEN BECKETT: relationships; romantic relationships.

HELEN BECKETT: And actually this really was quite

HELEN BECKETT: clearly identified by young people as a

HELEN BECKETT: real need. That they actually needed

HELEN BECKETT: support, direction, a space

HELEN BECKETT: to work out how do I be a

HELEN BECKETT: teenager and do romantic relationships

HELEN BECKETT: and sexual relationships following

HELEN BECKETT: an experience of abuse?

HELEN BECKETT: And so there was a really clear ask from

HELEN BECKETT: young people that actually, when they are

HELEN BECKETT: being worked with, that in adolescence,

HELEN BECKETT: that is part of what they need is "how do

HELEN BECKETT: I then work out what's a healthy

HELEN BECKETT: relationship, what's not a healthy

HELEN BECKETT: relationship? Who do I trust?

HELEN BECKETT: Who do I not? What am I comfortable

HELEN BECKETT: doing?" You know, a sexual encounter

HELEN BECKETT: might trigger something for them.

HELEN BECKETT: So that was kind of again, you know, if

HELEN BECKETT: we're thinking about what was particular

HELEN BECKETT: in adolescence, that felt like a really

HELEN BECKETT: strong theme coming out in the research

HELEN BECKETT: as well.

HELEN BECKETT: And I think, Debbie, the other kind of

HELEN BECKETT: area we thought it might be helpful just

HELEN BECKETT: to reflect on a bit here was schools,

HELEN BECKETT: because again it came across as a really

HELEN BECKETT: strong theme in the research, didn't it?.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Yeah, it did, and maybe that's

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: unsurprising in adolescence.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Young people spend quite a lot of their

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: time within schools.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So, we did hear a lot about those

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: experiences, and it was...

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: School was identified as a particularly

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: challenging context for young people to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: navigate after sexual abuse in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: adolescence.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And we found three key challenges

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: around this.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: The first was around this idea of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: managing educational expectations

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: whilst dealing with the impacts of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: abuse. And young people told us, for

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: example, that in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: schools, they often felt like the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: priority was on their educational

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: attainment and achievement and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: attendance and those sorts of things,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: at the expense of recognising

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the the impacts of the abuse that they

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: were experiencing.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: That was a real challenge for young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people who were really trying to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: balance those two things.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And oftentimes the impacts,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the emotional impacts that they were

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: experiencing that they were dealing

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: with did conflict with

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: their ability to engage within the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: educational those educational

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: expectations.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Secondly, they were really navigating a

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: fear of, but actual reactions from

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: peers. Of course, within the school

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: environment, it's not just teachers and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: educational staff, but their peers,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: their social networks are widening and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: becoming increasingly important to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: them.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: There were some examples where young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people were, you know, questioned

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: by police, by social care, by

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: educational staff there within the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: school. And this could really generate

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: a lot of fear and anxiety for young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people. And then thirdly, staff

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: responses to the abuse and associated

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: changes in young people's behaviour.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: That idea that they're just being

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: teenagers, this is just teenage

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: behaviour, was something that young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people talked about within the school

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: environment quite often.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So, you know, there's something there

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: about needing to develop and help staff

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to recognise what sits underneath of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: those behaviours and those changes that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: they might see because staff are really

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: well placed if they're seeing young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people quite often within

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the school environments throughout the

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: day.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Young people identified a number of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: ways in which schools could help --

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: could better help -- them to navigate

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: these difficulties.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And that's things like timeouts,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: school-based counselling,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: due regard for privacy, those sorts of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: things.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: However, they also recognise that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: schools couldn't provide the holistic

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: support on their own.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And so they also emphasised that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: importance of onward referrals to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: external services.

CHLOE GILL: Lovely, thank you.

CHLOE GILL: I mean, your research is clearly... there's clearly so

CHLOE GILL: much learning from this research.

CHLOE GILL: I'm interested in the resources that you're

CHLOE GILL: producing as a result of doing this

CHLOE GILL: research. Can you describe those to us

CHLOE GILL: a little bit and what they look like and

CHLOE GILL: what the purpose of those different

CHLOE GILL: resources are?

HELEN BECKETT: Yeah, Chloe, I'll kick off with this.

HELEN BECKETT: We've tried in terms of the outputs of

HELEN BECKETT: the research to kind of take a bit of a

HELEN BECKETT: varied approach and hope that different

HELEN BECKETT: outputs that we've put out will speak to

HELEN BECKETT: different people and feel accessible to

HELEN BECKETT: different people.

HELEN BECKETT: So we had previously released a kind of

HELEN BECKETT: 'key messages' from the research just

HELEN BECKETT: based on our emerging findings and

HELEN BECKETT: highlighting some of the overarching

HELEN BECKETT: findings from the research.

HELEN BECKETT: We have written up what we would call the

HELEN BECKETT: full research report, which is a longer

HELEN BECKETT: report, which goes into detail.

HELEN BECKETT: And then we're also working with

HELEN BECKETT: our Young Researcher Advisory panel on an

HELEN BECKETT: output for young people, and also

HELEN BECKETT: creating a short output for parents.

HELEN BECKETT: And then alongside that, actually, the

HELEN BECKETT: young people who've been involved in the

HELEN BECKETT: project have been working on, kind of,

HELEN BECKETT: a training resource for professionals,

HELEN BECKETT: which is really exciting.

HELEN BECKETT: I think it's a wonderful piece of work

HELEN BECKETT: that they've pulled together.

CHLOE GILL: They all sound really great.

CHLOE GILL: And I think it's really helpful that you've

CHLOE GILL: pulled out those different messages together

CHLOE GILL: for different people who might need to

CHLOE GILL: support young people who have experienced

CHLOE GILL: sexual abuse in different ways.

CHLOE GILL: So just to finish up then, my last

CHLOE GILL: question is around, sort of, from your

CHLOE GILL: research findings and from what young people

CHLOE GILL: have told you, what are the key

CHLOE GILL: recommendations that you would give to

CHLOE GILL: anyone who is providing support to young

CHLOE GILL: people who have experienced sexual abuse in

CHLOE GILL: adolescence?

HELEN BECKETT: I think what we have found in the

HELEN BECKETT: research, what young people have shared,

HELEN BECKETT: is a really clear need for an

HELEN BECKETT: adolescent-specific response.

HELEN BECKETT: And that's not to say it's not situated

HELEN BECKETT: in a wider framework of how we respond to

HELEN BECKETT: everybody, but a response that attends

HELEN BECKETT: to the uniqueness of the adolescence

HELEN BECKETT: life phase and what young people are

HELEN BECKETT: going through at that stage in time.

HELEN BECKETT: So adolescence itself is often described

HELEN BECKETT: as a stage of 'storm

HELEN BECKETT: and strife', that phrase that we use.

HELEN BECKETT: And yes, there are lots of kind of

HELEN BECKETT: changes and difficult things that young

HELEN BECKETT: people are experiencing during that time.

HELEN BECKETT: However, during that time, young people

HELEN BECKETT: also have increasing agency, increasing

HELEN BECKETT: cognitive ability to understand what's

HELEN BECKETT: going on. And so a holistic and

HELEN BECKETT: meaningful response to adolescents

HELEN BECKETT: experiencing sexual abuse has to attend

HELEN BECKETT: to those challenges of adolescence, but

HELEN BECKETT: also the opportunities that adolescence

HELEN BECKETT: offers and a way to work in a more

HELEN BECKETT: meaningful partnership way with young

HELEN BECKETT: people, as Debbie talked about before,

HELEN BECKETT: working with them and not doing to them.

HELEN BECKETT: Another really important message, and I

HELEN BECKETT: know we've kind of said this as we've

HELEN BECKETT: chatted, is about: it's so important

HELEN BECKETT: that we don't just focus on diagnosable

HELEN BECKETT: mental health, that we actually get

HELEN BECKETT: better at identifying that actually a

HELEN BECKETT: young person is struggling here and

HELEN BECKETT: things are changing.

HELEN BECKETT: So paying attention to their wellbeing,

HELEN BECKETT: their sense as a person.

HELEN BECKETT: So it is about looking for those earlier

HELEN BECKETT: opportunities to kind of notice what's

HELEN BECKETT: going on and to provide some support

HELEN BECKETT: alongside a young person.

HELEN BECKETT: And I think, you know, I guess just to

HELEN BECKETT: reiterate the message, we've hopefully

HELEN BECKETT: shared a bit during this chat, is,

HELEN BECKETT: yes, there were negative messages about

HELEN BECKETT: missed opportunities and things that

HELEN BECKETT: could be done better.

HELEN BECKETT: But, actually, we also feel that the

HELEN BECKETT: research shows lots of opportunities for

HELEN BECKETT: getting better and actually offers a

HELEN BECKETT: bit of a blueprint for going forward, of,

HELEN BECKETT: well, if we thought about attending to

HELEN BECKETT: these things, then we could actually

HELEN BECKETT: provide a better, more meaningful,

HELEN BECKETT: better fitting response to young people

HELEN BECKETT: who experience abuse in adolescence.

HELEN BECKETT: And so in the report we've identified, I

HELEN BECKETT: think, what we call six pillars of

HELEN BECKETT: an effective response to responding to a

HELEN BECKETT: young person who's experienced sexual

HELEN BECKETT: abuse.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So the first pillar

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: is that need for professionals

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: and those supporting young people to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: understand the adolescent life stages,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: as well as understanding the abuse and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the experiences and the impact of

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: these, and then also understanding

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: vulnerabilities and challenges that

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: young people face during this period.

HELEN BECKETT: So the flip side of what Debbie's talked

HELEN BECKETT: about, about recognising the difficulties

HELEN BECKETT: of adolescence and the vulnerability that

HELEN BECKETT: can be there at the same time is also

HELEN BECKETT: about those opportunities that I

HELEN BECKETT: mentioned. So about working with

HELEN BECKETT: adolescents, of adopting a

HELEN BECKETT: strengths-based approach that really puts

HELEN BECKETT: young people at the centre and that

HELEN BECKETT: actually moves the way... I think as a

HELEN BECKETT: society and as how we respond to

HELEN BECKETT: adolescents, we very much frame their

HELEN BECKETT: agency as a problem.

HELEN BECKETT: "Oh my goodness, they're off doing this,

HELEN BECKETT: this, that and the other." Actually, that

HELEN BECKETT: agency is a resource that can really be

HELEN BECKETT: harnessed to support young people

HELEN BECKETT: following the experience of abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: So it is about moving from that very

HELEN BECKETT: deficit-based approach to understanding

HELEN BECKETT: adolescents full stop.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And then a third pillar is this notion

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of a rights-based framework.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: We talked a lot through this podcast

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: about that, that notion of choice,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: control, and that's really important

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: to prioritise those things where all

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: possible for young people.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: To challenge disempowerment

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: and promote self-efficacy amongst young

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: people.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: We found a real need, I think, for

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: young people to be given more

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: information about their rights to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: safety, their rights to access to

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: support, and how they do that,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: including mental health and emotional

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: wellbeing interventions.

HELEN BECKETT: Yeah. Yeah.

HELEN BECKETT: And I guess the fourth. You know, we have

HELEN BECKETT: these six things, but they're obviously

HELEN BECKETT: all very interconnected.

HELEN BECKETT: The fourth one is about the importance of

HELEN BECKETT: relationship and recognising the

HELEN BECKETT: importance of relationship during

HELEN BECKETT: adolescence and attending to that when

HELEN BECKETT: we're looking to support young people.

HELEN BECKETT: We know that relationships are important

HELEN BECKETT: full stop in adolescence, and young

HELEN BECKETT: people spoke about them as so critical to

HELEN BECKETT: their experience of mental health and

HELEN BECKETT: wellbeing following abuse.

HELEN BECKETT: And so to try to actually just work with

HELEN BECKETT: a young person about their experience of

HELEN BECKETT: abuse without thinking about "these are

HELEN BECKETT: all of the relationships and experiences

HELEN BECKETT: in other spheres of my life that I'm

HELEN BECKETT: concurrently trying to navigate" actually

HELEN BECKETT: is just not going to cut it because we

HELEN BECKETT: have to think about the reality of their

HELEN BECKETT: lives and all of the relationships and

HELEN BECKETT: things that are going on.

HELEN BECKETT: So the importance of helping young people

HELEN BECKETT: think about how they can navigate, and

HELEN BECKETT: supporting them to navigate, this complex

HELEN BECKETT: web of relationships that they seem to

HELEN BECKETT: have to navigate.

HELEN BECKETT: And Debbie I suppose that leads on, the theme

HELEN BECKETT: of being holistic, to the next one

HELEN BECKETT: doesn't it?

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: Quite nicely leads on to the next one,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: which is this holistic focus

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: on emotional wellbeing.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: There seems to be a real need to really

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: look at emotional wellbeing beyond and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: before diagnosable mental health issues

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: arise. So young people talked about

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the fact that they recognised in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: themselves these emotional wellbeing

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: needs before they disclosed abuse

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: or before abuse had been discovered,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: but that these tended to be missed.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: So again, really focusing on

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: early signs, early indicators

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of some emotional wellbeing

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: needs would be really, I think,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: really important in this kind of a framework.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And recognising

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: the need for support from multiple

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: sources because those emotional

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: wellbeing needs are quite varied and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: wide and different.

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: And so recognising that multiple

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: professional sources of support,

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: expertise, would be helpful, and

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: informal support as well, could come in

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: and help to address and meet some

DEBORAH ALLNOCK: of those needs.

HELEN BECKETT: And last but certainly not least

HELEN BECKETT: is that the response needs to be centred

HELEN BECKETT: around the young person.

HELEN BECKETT: You know, we've talked before about the

HELEN BECKETT: importance of working with not for, of

HELEN BECKETT: identifying with them, how they

HELEN BECKETT: understand their circumstances, what they

HELEN BECKETT: see their needs as, what they see helpful

HELEN BECKETT: support as being rather than

HELEN BECKETT: us as professionals assessing what we

HELEN BECKETT: think they need or what we think they'd

HELEN BECKETT: like and what would be helpful for them.

HELEN BECKETT: And I guess, kind of, as researchers, we

HELEN BECKETT: really hope that the report and the

HELEN BECKETT: centrality of young people's quotes and

HELEN BECKETT: young people's voices throughout the

HELEN BECKETT: report starts to offer some insights

HELEN BECKETT: into that; to how young people view and

HELEN BECKETT: understand what has happened to them,

HELEN BECKETT: view and understand their needs and how

HELEN BECKETT: they would like those to be addressed by

HELEN BECKETT: other people. So it's really important

HELEN BECKETT: that that's the road we keep going,

HELEN BECKETT: which isn't what do we as professionals

HELEN BECKETT: think needs done about this but what does

HELEN BECKETT: the young person sitting in front of me

HELEN BECKETT: or who's in my life or who's in my

HELEN BECKETT: school, for example, what do they need

HELEN BECKETT: from their perspective?

HELEN BECKETT: What's going on and how can I meet their

HELEN BECKETT: need? It's really important at the start

HELEN BECKETT: of any engagement with young people, you

HELEN BECKETT: know, and we know this about sexual abuse

HELEN BECKETT: generally and also about mental health

HELEN BECKETT: and wellbeing, that you co-create a

HELEN BECKETT: language, you co-create a framework that

HELEN BECKETT: works for them and that we don't just

HELEN BECKETT: engage with them within our predetermined

HELEN BECKETT: terminology and categories.

HELEN BECKETT: But actually that really the language we

HELEN BECKETT: use, the ways in which we engage, is

HELEN BECKETT: really driven by what the young person

HELEN BECKETT: sees, the language they're comfortable

HELEN BECKETT: with, the ways in which they want to

HELEN BECKETT: explore what has happened to them.

HELEN BECKETT: And so I think it's really important we

HELEN BECKETT: find another language, another framework

HELEN BECKETT: for talking about emotional health and

HELEN BECKETT: mental wellbeing after abuse.

CHLOE GILL: Thank you. That's been so helpful.

CHLOE GILL: And you know, NSPCC and ESRC are really

CHLOE GILL: pleased that we funded this research and

CHLOE GILL: there's some really clear messages coming

CHLOE GILL: out there for people to hear that will

CHLOE GILL: ultimately help us improve how

CHLOE GILL: we respond to young people's wants and needs

CHLOE GILL: after abuse. So, thanks again.

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