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<div id="metadata"> <h1 id="title">Claudia Durastanti</h1> <h4 id="subtitle"></h4>
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<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[0:00]</small> <span title="0:00 - 0:22" data-start="00:00:00.000" data-end="00:00:22.160">Music.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[0:23]</small> <span title="0:23 - 0:28" data-start="00:00:22.832" data-end="00:00:28.489">Hello and welcome to Anti Methods with me Lochlin Blue and me Jamie Batchen.</span><br> <span title="0:29 - 0:35" data-start="00:00:28.540" data-end="00:00:35.258">Hey this is the first time listing to this podcast it's part of a series where we talk to fellow writers about their process and technique.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[0:36]</small> <span title="0:36 - 0:43" data-start="00:00:36.129" data-end="00:00:43.018">So we're we're into the 50s now aren't we? We're into this of 52nd half century. I think it's.</span><br> <span title="0:43 - 0:53" data-start="00:00:43.177" data-end="00:00:53.245">Episode 51.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[0:54]</small> <span title="0:54 - 1:01" data-start="00:00:53.503" data-end="00:01:01.014">Italian writer although as you will hear she spent some of her upbringing growing up in New York.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[1:02]</small> <span title="1:02 - 1:11" data-start="00:01:01.902" data-end="00:01:10.736">And we spoke to her when she was staying at a flat in Berlin on a sort of a writing.</span><br> <span title="1:11 - 1:23" data-start="00:01:10.778" data-end="00:01:22.691">Song.</span><br> <span title="1:23 - 1:31" data-start="00:01:22.580" data-end="00:01:31.009">Travel.</span><br> <span title="1:31 - 1:40" data-start="00:01:31.231" data-end="00:01:39.589">She's as well as the writer. She's also translator so that also fed into her work and and.</span><br> <span title="1:40 - 1:46" data-start="00:01:39.793" data-end="00:01:46.223">She's got a very interesting attitude to finding a way of describing the the kind of unique light of each place.</span><br> <span title="1:46 - 1:50" data-start="00:01:46.301" data-end="00:01:50.337">And that she doesn't feel connected to it until she's worked out.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[1:51]</small> <span title="1:51 - 1:59" data-start="00:01:50.577" data-end="00:01:58.538">Phrase that describes the light. I think she's she was still in search of Berlins when we spoke to her. Maybe she's found it now. There</span><br> <span title="1:58 - 2:09" data-start="00:01:58.427" data-end="00:02:09.296">By the time you listen to this podcast it hit me and catch you later forever I think it was the evening light in a in a taxi riding in Berlin yeah</span><br> <span title="2:09 - 2:17" data-start="00:02:09.149" data-end="00:02:16.804">Hey.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[2:17]</small> <span title="2:17 - 2:22" data-start="00:02:17.125" data-end="00:02:22.313">It was great to speak to Claudia and.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[2:23]</small> <span title="2:23 - 2:30" data-start="00:02:22.833" data-end="00:02:30.064">So I guess we got an interesting angle to go as being that you're in Berlin specifically to do some writing at the moment</span><br> <span title="2:30 - 2:38" data-start="00:02:29.962" data-end="00:02:37.680">So</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[2:39]</small> <span title="2:39 - 2:53" data-start="00:02:38.866" data-end="00:02:53.425">Okay so I've been planning this new novel for 3 years so far but I managed to write like five pages so that's my process at the moment and so I have this very convoluted trip</span><br> <span title="2:53 - 2:58" data-start="00:02:53.278" data-end="00:02:57.602">Back into the third person after using the first person so</span><br> <span title="2:57 - 3:09" data-start="00:02:57.419" data-end="00:03:08.720">Right now, what's happening is that I spent a couple of hours in the morning trying to fit in. This third person. So, I'm in the early stages of it but it</span><br> <span title="3:09 - 3:14" data-start="00:03:08.591" data-end="00:03:14.202">This is happening after a long long time spent thinking about the novels so</span><br> <span title="3:14 - 3:23" data-start="00:03:14.037" data-end="00:03:23.097">Right now I not really sure what the process is gonna be because I never worked this way really I usually think in right at the same time</span><br> <span title="3:23 - 3:33" data-start="00:03:23.004" data-end="00:03:33.233">After strangers right now which was a such a peculiar book for money our reasons hybrid you know unknown on charting territory for me</span><br> <span title="3:33 - 3:39" data-start="00:03:33.113" data-end="00:03:39.085">It's really tricky to go back thinking to a problem novel format but that's what I wanna do I</span><br> <span title="3:39 - 3:49" data-start="00:03:38.965" data-end="00:03:48.726">Think the amount of time I spend writing it's still not enough compared to where I wanna go so I hope this month here helps me a little bit with that.</span><br> <span title="3:49 - 4:00" data-start="00:03:48.750" data-end="00:04:00.222">In that in that period of planning for the last year is it is have you other than the five pages of of the novel that you've got have you been writing notes or have you got</span><br> <span title="4:00 - 4:08" data-start="00:04:00.192" data-end="00:04:07.676">In a notebooks filled with.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[4:08]</small> <span title="4:08 - 4:20" data-start="00:04:07.952" data-end="00:04:19.595">You now have to translate it on the page. Like when you've when you've come to Berlin have you brought files and things on your computer that that you're gonna work from or it's just a case of a blank page and what's in your your head.</span><br> <span title="4:20 - 4:28" data-start="00:04:19.799" data-end="00:04:27.949">No, that's interesting. Definitely fragments notes. Very short short notes. And maps. I brought with me</span><br> <span title="4:28 - 4:34" data-start="00:04:27.802" data-end="00:04:34.440">In a way. So I have paper maps. I'm working. Do you know you stereotypical that's what I brought with me.</span><br> <span title="4:34 - 4:43" data-start="00:04:34.248" data-end="00:04:43.433">TV shows, crime TV shows when you're trying to put all the posts together. So,</span><br> <span title="4:43 - 4:55" data-start="00:04:43.232" data-end="00:04:54.542">Please now it's like on a coastline with fingers you know so with characters and stuff like that I don't have enough space to have a close line so hi there I used to have a room a wall but I'll learn</span><br> <span title="4:54 - 4:56" data-start="00:04:54.413" data-end="00:04:56.009">Because the structure.</span><br> <span title="4:56 - 5:10" data-start="00:04:55.799" data-end="00:05:10.200">Of the novels should be a sort of battle ship so I need to figure out where you know the ex and A's letters and numbers are matching in and so that's what I brought with me. I literally moved battleship.</span><br> <span title="5:10 - 5:19" data-start="00:05:10.263" data-end="00:05:18.911">Labels in a way and so I this is not my flat so I need to find a way to have it space wise visible</span><br> <span title="5:19 - 5:20" data-start="00:05:18.728" data-end="00:05:20.288">So this is.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[5:20]</small> <span title="5:20 - 5:35" data-start="00:05:20.393" data-end="00:05:35.169">A little bit different compared to how are you see work before.</span><br> <span title="5:35 - 5:44" data-start="00:05:35.175" data-end="00:05:43.676">I guess there's lots of different ways that that can work in terms of what I mean you mention you've maps</span><br> <span title="5:44 - 5:51" data-start="00:05:43.565" data-end="00:05:50.851">Two diveraged on representation of of something but in terms of the the notes that I can imagine there's lots of different ways you could</span><br> <span title="5:51 - 5:54" data-start="00:05:50.821" data-end="00:05:53.588">Arrangers on the wall are lots of different ways you could</span><br> <span title="5:54 - 6:03" data-start="00:05:53.540" data-end="00:06:02.680">Format. You know, it says, do you have any process so far in that you find yourself writing.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[6:03]</small> <span title="6:03 - 6:13" data-start="00:06:03.001" data-end="00:06:13.212">Characteristics or is it is it more around the themes of the novel or how how'd you go about breaking down something as with as much depth as a novel into into.</span><br> <span title="6:13 - 6:17" data-start="00:06:13.246" data-end="00:06:17.137">Fragments. Oh, I had a lot of notes.</span><br> <span title="6:17 - 6:29" data-start="00:06:16.990" data-end="00:06:29.092">About since I'm very bad with plot I tried to do my best effort to plan secrets but that's least interesting part for me so in every like peace of the</span><br> <span title="6:29 - 6:36" data-start="00:06:28.973" data-end="00:06:35.871">Puzzle of the battleship I try to have in each page vote something about character something about landscape</span><br> <span title="6:36 - 6:56" data-start="00:06:35.715" data-end="00:06:56.036">The year and and then what happens but what was interesting to know is that I was going along and thinking this would happen here and this happens here I managed to to switch into move down and to rearrange it</span><br> <span title="6:56 - 6:58" data-start="00:06:55.835" data-end="00:06:57.684">But then when I do that I</span><br> <span title="6:58 - 7:07" data-start="00:06:57.636" data-end="00:07:07.190">I'm not always satisfied so each box or each page has sort of lines where I delete stuff and I moved them. So this is why</span><br> <span title="7:07 - 7:14" data-start="00:07:07.034" data-end="00:07:14.365">To kind of physical representation of it. It's helping me because it's helping me thinking about brighter death.</span><br> <span title="7:14 - 7:19" data-start="00:07:14.317" data-end="00:07:19.280">Affect cars consequence or time really is helping to think.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[7:20]</small> <span title="7:20 - 7:32" data-start="00:07:19.511" data-end="00:07:32.162">More about spacially where is the character at that time so this is what I've been doing so far so translating the notes I had in each little box all of these containers and then moving them around.</span><br> <span title="7:32 - 7:40" data-start="00:07:32.258" data-end="00:07:40.246">I'm just gonna ask if the maps and where your setting at is this of physical space you've actually been to or are using the maps to kind of</span><br> <span title="7:40 - 7:43" data-start="00:07:40.180" data-end="00:07:42.695">Plan your way around some of your not familiar with.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[7:43]</small> <span title="7:43 - 7:53" data-start="00:07:42.989" data-end="00:07:53.336">No so I always write about a places I laugh a long time ago so my early novels were all set in New York Brooklyn New Jersey and I haven't</span><br> <span title="7:53 - 7:59" data-start="00:07:53.279" data-end="00:07:58.710">They've been living. Curtain and consistently in New York since I was 6 years old.</span><br> <span title="7:59 - 8:08" data-start="00:07:58.581" data-end="00:08:08.324">Dan I wrote a novel in Yelps Grocer Rome when I was living in the UK after 8 years that I had a mid living room to me in a way to have access to.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[8:08]</small> <span title="8:08 - 8:14" data-start="00:08:08.286" data-end="00:08:13.618">Since to me writing about space geographies and landscapes way more intimate than writing about.</span><br> <span title="8:13 - 8:22" data-start="00:08:13.399" data-end="00:08:22.296">Family and love of fear is horror physical relationships so to me face is very sensitive and dedicated and so I need a wide stretch of time</span><br> <span title="8:22 - 8:29" data-start="00:08:22.158" data-end="00:08:28.670">Where you kind of have glimpses and glitches and memories about it but they're not consistent and they don't.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[8:29]</small> <span title="8:29 - 8:34" data-start="00:08:28.613" data-end="00:08:34.233">Form a sort of unified scenario in a way it's so it's a little bit when landscape</span><br> <span title="8:34 - 8:42" data-start="00:08:34.140" data-end="00:08:41.570">Switches into being a dreamscape in a way. No, it loses a little bit of the borders and materialities</span><br> <span title="8:41 - 8:52" data-start="00:08:41.423" data-end="00:08:52.238">Are there. So, I've been living in Southern Italy, most of my life. I briefly wrote about it in Strangers I know but I never really addressed that space in that with novelistic</span><br> <span title="8:52 - 9:01" data-start="00:08:52.055" data-end="00:09:01.105">Thinking. So, what I have in the book is a unity across almost a century and a half of the new book. It's</span><br> <span title="9:01 - 9:08" data-start="00:09:00.931" data-end="00:09:07.910">The only constant in the book is the area in Bazilika where I grew up in but I haven't been</span><br> <span title="9:08 - 9:12" data-start="00:09:07.728" data-end="00:09:12.439">Living there consistently and I've been visiting there for three, 4 years. So,</span><br> <span title="9:12 - 9:23" data-start="00:09:12.292" data-end="00:09:23.421">As you imagine is of intense process of</span><br> <span title="9:23 - 9:43" data-start="00:09:23.247" data-end="00:09:43.100">But I am not researching it being there if that makes any sense and I'm also resisting travelling back to visit my mother for example which would be conventionally good for the book I think because Jen has you know this very sense for six experience of being there with liar and the sound of it but I think in this.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[9:44]</small> <span title="9:44 - 9:56" data-start="00:09:43.629" data-end="00:09:55.758">Early stage of writing I don't might approach since it's not an historical novel but it's based you know it it starts in the midst of the 19th century and usually I thought</span><br> <span title="9:56 - 9:59" data-start="00:09:55.593" data-end="00:09:59.196">Oh I'm gonna read as much as I can about that time</span><br> <span title="9:59 - 10:07" data-start="00:09:59.148" data-end="00:10:07.010">Then I'm gonna leave her for a while and then I'm gonna start writing what I'm doing is the opposite I write and then I tried to verify if</span><br> <span title="10:07 - 10:17" data-start="00:10:06.890" data-end="00:10:16.742">What I'm thinking or imagining has some sort of connection to history or what happened so for example the knowledge a little bit about oil</span><br> <span title="10:17 - 10:30" data-start="00:10:16.694" data-end="00:10:30.416">And I didn't know if actually they were digging oil at the time. I wrote scenes about it. I think about it and then I went after Montana Health to see if that will anise it. Oh, I got lucky. But then this is quite messy because</span><br> <span title="10:30 - 10:43" data-start="00:10:30.368" data-end="00:10:43.299">If it didn't make any sense I would be forced to delete the scene.</span><br> <span title="10:43 - 10:50" data-start="00:10:43.278" data-end="00:10:50.086">If that makes any sense.</span><br> <span title="10:50 - 10:55" data-start="00:10:49.993" data-end="00:10:54.974">Keeping an acronym in if it served a kind of metaphorical purpose or.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[10:55]</small> <span title="10:55 - 11:02" data-start="00:10:55.422" data-end="00:11:01.663">So that's a sensitive spot for me.</span><br> <span title="11:01 - 11:13" data-start="00:11:01.462" data-end="00:11:12.691">There was an Italian director that adapted Martin Eden</span><br> <span title="11:13 - 11:23" data-start="00:11:12.544" data-end="00:11:22.656">And so by Jack London so the film is called Martin Eden he translated he moved it from a Southern California to Naples and Geneva.</span><br> <span title="11:23 - 11:28" data-start="00:11:22.753" data-end="00:11:28.283">And the timeline is very sketchy in the sense that you see cars you see signs.</span><br> <span title="11:28 - 11:33" data-start="00:11:28.082" data-end="00:11:33.315">You see what our clothes that could span from the fastest thera to</span><br> <span title="11:33 - 11:41" data-start="00:11:33.141" data-end="00:11:41.237">50s or to the 80s and usually when we see these kind of anapronism or blurry timelines it that happens often</span><br> <span title="11:41 - 11:46" data-start="00:11:41.063" data-end="00:11:46.305">Dystopia or utopia but it's hard to see it you know.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[11:47]</small> <span title="11:47 - 12:00" data-start="00:11:46.609" data-end="00:11:59.782">In different sort of projects and what I wanted to do when I actually have I have the Mexican for example of revolution in Italy or counter revolution in the 70s in the early part of the novel which is set in the mid</span><br> <span title="12:00 - 12:03" data-start="00:11:59.725" data-end="00:12:03.059">Of the 19th century and then I have very old</span><br> <span title="12:03 - 12:15" data-start="00:12:03.011" data-end="00:12:14.500">Fashioned backboard talking in the last part which is said in the future so I'm trying to see if I can convey the sense of bleaches in the macronism not</span><br> <span title="12:14 - 12:25" data-start="00:12:14.417" data-end="00:12:24.673">Through characters or not through timelines but with our understanding of our language evolves over time and I think that's what's fascinating to me. So I don't want any</span><br> <span title="12:25 - 12:32" data-start="00:12:24.589" data-end="00:12:31.902">Level of accuracy there</span><br> <span title="12:32 - 12:40" data-start="00:12:31.836" data-end="00:12:40.013">Or what was really happening material wise I'm more embarrassed in a way I I feel that if I want to put a factory in there at that time</span><br> <span title="12:40 - 12:54" data-start="00:12:39.920" data-end="00:12:53.714">I have to make it sure that there's a river</span><br> <span title="12:54 - 13:01" data-start="00:12:53.522" data-end="00:13:00.574">But I don't know I'm I'm trying this out since it's very very new I never I don't come.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[13:01]</small> <span title="13:01 - 13:05" data-start="00:13:00.652" data-end="00:13:04.859">From the canal rating since I was always obsessed with you know.</span><br> <span title="13:05 - 13:20" data-start="00:13:04.892" data-end="00:13:20.127">Ambiance interior</span><br> <span title="13:20 - 13:29" data-start="00:13:19.971" data-end="00:13:28.697">I don't care about it in terms of plot or I don't care about in terms of language but I do feel I need to be more careful when it comes actually to.</span><br> <span title="13:29 - 13:33" data-start="00:13:28.775" data-end="00:13:33.459">Big objects like oil or factories or stuff like that.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[13:34]</small> <span title="13:34 - 13:40" data-start="00:13:33.555" data-end="00:13:40.238">So I've been reading you know books about</span><br> <span title="13:40 - 13:49" data-start="00:13:40.019" data-end="00:13:49.312">Feel all about how bomb set off and even if they don't end up with the book I feel like I should you know if I'm so obsessed with this kind of dynamic I should know a little bit about it</span><br> <span title="13:49 - 13:53" data-start="00:13:49.264" data-end="00:13:53.120">Like daily rap balance when you're working with the real world.</span><br> <span title="13:53 - 14:03" data-start="00:13:53.144" data-end="00:14:03.392">But adding in to the speculative fictional elements you wanna have some balance if you if you go fully.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[14:04]</small> <span title="14:04 - 14:08" data-start="00:14:03.668" data-end="00:14:07.740">Having the right mix of real reality in there is is</span><br> <span title="14:08 - 14:16" data-start="00:14:07.728" data-end="00:14:15.743">Important.</span><br> <span title="14:16 - 14:27" data-start="00:14:15.713" data-end="00:14:26.780">Wouldn't go back to have the actual experience of being there but are you sort of looking on Google Maps or email is there a river there and going online to verify that or are you.</span><br> <span title="14:27 - 14:35" data-start="00:14:26.921" data-end="00:14:34.837">Writing everything first and it's only once you've got a few pages down that you then go and check. So that that seems</span><br> <span title="14:35 - 14:45" data-start="00:14:34.744" data-end="00:14:44.568">As a writer it seems a lot risky</span><br> <span title="14:45 - 14:47" data-start="00:14:44.529" data-end="00:14:47.350">Damn we're gonna have to delete all that.</span><br> <span title="14:47 - 14:57" data-start="00:14:47.491" data-end="00:14:56.919">What's so funny about this I recently interviewed for an Italian literary supplement Jennifer Egan and she came back with the book</span><br> <span title="14:57 - 15:10" data-start="00:14:56.745" data-end="00:15:09.622">I don't know if come back because it's not a sequel but it's a book that evolves around her early novel of I visit from the Boot and Squad.</span><br> <span title="15:10 - 15:16" data-start="00:15:09.700" data-end="00:15:15.869">Send characters in a different span of time and she said that she didn't reread.</span><br> <span title="15:16 - 15:23" data-start="00:15:15.875" data-end="00:15:22.882">A visit from the goon scratch. She worked from scratch on what she remembered of the characters and then she went.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[15:23]</small> <span title="15:23 - 15:29" data-start="00:15:23.284" data-end="00:15:28.958">Full on finished novel she goes back to reading the</span><br> <span title="15:29 - 15:41" data-start="00:15:28.757" data-end="00:15:41.201">She got a lot of things wrong</span><br> <span title="15:41 - 15:53" data-start="00:15:41.001" data-end="00:15:53.274">At that moment I felt a really a pangolf pain you know</span><br> <span title="15:53 - 16:00" data-start="00:15:53.091" data-end="00:16:00.088">And then I started thinking what's interesting about this sort of sacrificed pages and I think.</span><br> <span title="16:00 - 16:09" data-start="00:16:00.130" data-end="00:16:09.298">In the way I'm working right now there is the sort of leftovers so if I get something wrong then I delete it it cannot.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[16:10]</small> <span title="16:10 - 16:13" data-start="00:16:09.547" data-end="00:16:12.682">Be there any longer but some</span><br> <span title="16:13 - 16:21" data-start="00:16:12.680" data-end="00:16:20.721">Part of the energy of it was something still stay in a way so it is a process of</span><br> <span title="16:21 - 16:25" data-start="00:16:20.665" data-end="00:16:25.142">Exploring stuff</span><br> <span title="16:25 - 16:33" data-start="00:16:25.004" data-end="00:16:32.541">You know, I would have to to go back. So, it's the first time perhaps of me. I was always</span><br> <span title="16:32 - 16:44" data-start="00:16:32.422" data-end="00:16:43.668">Writer in the sense that I I used to think about pages even in my sleep and then get up in the morning and write and they would come fully formed. So, I was also bragging when I started writing books. Oh,</span><br> <span title="16:43 - 16:44" data-start="00:16:43.476" data-end="00:16:44.460">I don't</span><br> <span title="16:44 - 16:54" data-start="00:16:44.269" data-end="00:16:53.535">A lot of editing, you know, my my books, my Stuart stories, everything is fully formed. I make my editors happy because I know exactly what I want and this is the first time</span><br> <span title="16:53 - 17:01" data-start="00:16:53.460" data-end="00:17:01.322">This is the</span><br> <span title="17:01 - 17:13" data-start="00:17:01.175" data-end="00:17:13.484">When you were asking about maps I did definitely there is a river there I've been there a lot of times since I was a little girl but my memories of it almost turned it into this sort of mythical</span><br> <span title="17:13 - 17:16" data-start="00:17:13.409" data-end="00:17:16.428">River that was way more stronger and</span><br> <span title="17:16 - 17:25" data-start="00:17:16.227" data-end="00:17:25.475">Power for a little longer.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[17:25]</small> <span title="17:25 - 17:42" data-start="00:17:25.454" data-end="00:17:41.715">Five, 6 years ago, I was this very modest, you know, tiny rivers like when you go back to see the holdouts, you grow up in, now that it's it's a castle, and then the more you visit it, and the more shrinks that happens to me when I go to Brooklyn all the time, and so the palace are the mansion that my grandparents lived in, now it's</span><br> <span title="17:41 - 17:46" data-start="00:17:41.496" data-end="00:17:45.874">Basically a shared in the yard so that happened with the river really</span><br> <span title="17:46 - 18:00" data-start="00:17:45.772" data-end="00:18:00.026">And so my memory of it is one thing the reality of it is another thing but since I'm writing about that same course or stream of water</span><br> <span title="18:00 - 18:05" data-start="00:17:59.888" data-end="00:18:05.409">Even compare to my memories or the reality of it. It turns into another river if that makes any sense.</span><br> <span title="18:05 - 18:13" data-start="00:18:05.424" data-end="00:18:13.196">And with the the fact this is your fifth novel and you're doing this in quite a different way you know waking up in the morning with the page fully fund</span><br> <span title="18:13 - 18:24" data-start="00:18:13.184" data-end="00:18:24.035">His cause that is that an intentional decision to work in a different way to see what the results are or is that because this novel wasn't quite realizing itself in that</span><br> <span title="18:24 - 18:25" data-start="00:18:23.969" data-end="00:18:24.836">That way.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[18:25]</small> <span title="18:25 - 18:35" data-start="00:18:25.040" data-end="00:18:34.540">I think because.</span><br> <span title="18:35 - 18:43" data-start="00:18:34.546" data-end="00:18:43.029">Fictional short stories and and novels and then I wrote this book Strangers I know that was kind of blending different</span><br> <span title="18:43 - 18:54" data-start="00:18:42.891" data-end="00:18:53.967">Genres. And somehow, even if I, as I said before, I was unturted territory. I came to it. What a very assurative voice that was fully formed in a way. So, maybe it was</span><br> <span title="18:54 - 18:58" data-start="00:18:53.865" data-end="00:18:58.387">A lot of years in the making I I've been thinking unconsciously about that book for</span><br> <span title="18:58 - 19:07" data-start="00:18:58.357" data-end="00:19:07.417">10 15 years also because I didn't wanna write about my family openly so perhaps the resistance I applied to writing in that book it</span><br> <span title="19:07 - 19:19" data-start="00:19:07.342" data-end="00:19:19.362">Build a sort of compression within me that when I started writing it I was very secure about the tone and what I wanted to do after that book I think when I say a game changer to me I was really afraid.</span><br> <span title="19:19 - 19:21" data-start="00:19:19.495" data-end="00:19:21.388">That it would completely.</span><br> <span title="19:21 - 19:33" data-start="00:19:21.439" data-end="00:19:33.109">It's like when you lose yourself in the woods you have to be very careful with first person narration and away because if you don't plant how is the little feeble that you didn't put the bread crumbs</span><br> <span title="19:33 - 19:41" data-start="00:19:32.962" data-end="00:19:41.229">Behind you, you're not gonna be able to find your way back home.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[19:42]</small> <span title="19:42 - 19:54" data-start="00:19:41.595" data-end="00:19:54.453">Put these breadcrumbs and and see oh I'm gonna fall into this first person but I am gonna find my way back out so it was very painful for me and away to realize do I trust third person</span><br> <span title="19:54 - 19:59" data-start="00:19:54.360" data-end="00:19:59.323">Narration I I come from that I come in Italy also we have</span><br> <span title="19:59 - 20:11" data-start="00:19:59.177" data-end="00:20:10.657">A past tense cold pasta demoto sorry delete it every form for writing is third person in this past tense which is a classic form I come from that and then it felt almost like</span><br> <span title="20:11 - 20:15" data-start="00:20:10.510" data-end="00:20:14.942">It's not that I didn't trust it I completely forgot about how to use it</span><br> <span title="20:15 - 20:25" data-start="00:20:14.904" data-end="00:20:24.692">So this is why perhaps with this book the method I'm saying changing is not so much because I wanna do it this way</span><br> <span title="20:25 - 20:26" data-start="00:20:24.644" data-end="00:20:26.402">But it's because I don't.</span><br> <span title="20:26 - 20:35" data-start="00:20:26.472" data-end="00:20:35.396">Know how to do certain things anymore. So, it's almost about learning.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[20:36]</small> <span title="20:36 - 20:45" data-start="00:20:35.546" data-end="00:20:44.677">Fascinating because it helps me to get rid of certain habits I have in writing.</span><br> <span title="20:45 - 21:01" data-start="00:20:44.503" data-end="00:21:01.430">Draft it's only five pages but I have different drafts of these five pages the first draft I had a tone that was my usual tone the sort of hypothetical thinking the character is there but it constantly thinks oh what if I did this what if I was there at this kind of</span><br> <span title="21:01 - 21:11" data-start="00:21:01.247" data-end="00:21:10.649">Melancolic Bean but it didn't match because I wanted the opening to be way more pickarasque adventurers and explosive and so</span><br> <span title="21:11 - 21:25" data-start="00:21:10.538" data-end="00:21:25.268">I think oh this is me trying to wear my same clothes while I am travelling into a different world and so I tried undress from that tone and try a tone that is a little more goofier for me</span><br> <span title="21:25 - 21:36" data-start="00:21:25.202" data-end="00:21:36.179">For me because it's new and I and so I am not approaching this by any way with a precise voice and I'm not approaching it</span><br> <span title="21:36 - 21:37" data-start="00:21:36.131" data-end="00:21:37.295">Weather.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[21:38]</small> <span title="21:38 - 21:48" data-start="00:21:37.859" data-end="00:21:47.540">Cautious way of saying oh I'm gonna do things differently in a way it's personally because I'm forced to do it this way and there it has as I said.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[21:48]</small> <span title="21:48 - 21:56" data-start="00:21:47.816" data-end="00:21:55.966">It's a it's limits but it has its own benefits. I have writer friends that are intentionally committing.</span><br> <span title="21:56 - 22:03" data-start="00:21:56.017" data-end="00:22:03.168">To writing a different book all the time. That's their kind of project. I always felt I was going to be.</span><br> <span title="22:03 - 22:14" data-start="00:22:03.210" data-end="00:22:13.556">Stuck and the same lost American neighborhood in all of my writing that I would be always about AA woman, a girl, an older one, but it</span><br> <span title="22:13 - 22:17" data-start="00:22:13.454" data-end="00:22:16.977">Always around me if you think might</span><br> <span title="22:17 - 22:24" data-start="00:22:16.974" data-end="00:22:24.467">Other novels in Italy one is called a claw but let her</span><br> <span title="22:24 - 22:31" data-start="00:22:24.365" data-end="00:22:30.778">The second book is called Cleopatra Go to prison the third one and then characters called Caterina so I've been</span><br> <span title="22:31 - 22:41" data-start="00:22:30.685" data-end="00:22:40.716">Working even when I was so lazy that I can even come up with names that were different from Claudia.</span><br> <span title="22:41 - 22:45" data-start="00:22:40.650" data-end="00:22:45.118">Mention myself because the book is based on this kind of</span><br> <span title="22:45 - 22:59" data-start="00:22:44.971" data-end="00:22:58.811">Elizabeth.</span><br> <span title="22:59 - 23:02" data-start="00:22:58.898" data-end="00:23:02.133">There's no seed in this book. There's no character names.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[23:03]</small> <span title="23:03 - 23:10" data-start="00:23:02.544" data-end="00:23:10.343">Yeah. Did you find that the the it's sort of.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[23:11]</small> <span title="23:11 - 23:20" data-start="00:23:10.889" data-end="00:23:20.155">Put things up in the wall and.</span><br> <span title="23:20 - 23:25" data-start="00:23:20.179" data-end="00:23:25.367">You've sort of redraft those five pages again and then go back.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[23:26]</small> <span title="23:26 - 23:34" data-start="00:23:25.644" data-end="00:23:33.884">Put new rearrange everything on the wall again and and redraft it so you you kind of going through those steps to try and find the voice that will take you onto page.</span><br> <span title="23:34 - 23:43" data-start="00:23:33.908" data-end="00:23:42.913">Page six.</span><br> <span title="23:43 - 23:55" data-start="00:23:42.757" data-end="00:23:55.093">Go. I'm back and forth almost with this feedback and release system. I don't know if this is another technical thing I should know about but I pretend they know about it. That's what it feels to me. That I put a sound out in the room, the room has</span><br> <span title="23:55 - 24:06" data-start="00:23:55.063" data-end="00:24:06.382">Thanks to the properties are sort of feedback and then I I got it back and strangers I know I mentioned that kind of album Lucier I am sitting in the room experiment so he's</span><br> <span title="24:06 - 24:11" data-start="00:24:06.226" data-end="00:24:10.784">Rick,</span><br> <span title="24:11 - 24:25" data-start="00:24:10.691" data-end="00:24:25.476">And Dan he puts the tape again in the taping machine he pronounces the sentence again but it has in the feedback the noise of the first time he says it any goes on recording over recording over recording until it becomes a different complete kind of sound.</span><br> <span title="24:26 - 24:37" data-start="00:24:25.509" data-end="00:24:36.710">So when you ask that I was thinking that to me going back and forth from the page or the representation of the novel I have with these maps is constantly you know a process of</span><br> <span title="24:41 - 24:44" data-start="00:24:40.710" data-end="00:24:44.209">Pages and then that's it. And an or in order to move forward.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[24:44]</small> <span title="24:44 - 24:53" data-start="00:24:44.413" data-end="00:24:53.149">I need to accumulate a good bulk of, you know, good bulk, five pages.</span><br> <span title="24:53 - 24:57" data-start="00:24:53.074" data-end="00:24:57.497">Move on for a letter a little segment in the you know in the tape and.</span><br> <span title="24:58 - 25:10" data-start="00:24:57.557" data-end="00:25:09.965">Hey Facebook delete slow and as you can imagine.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[25:10]</small> <span title="25:10 - 25:18" data-start="00:25:10.178" data-end="00:25:18.472">It has interesting consequences. Do you envisage then that you'd move you know once you're happy with pages one to five. You'd move on in</span><br> <span title="25:18 - 25:28" data-start="00:25:18.415" data-end="00:25:27.645">Do the same process for pages five to 10 or would you once you've got the voice set for those first</span><br> <span title="25:28 - 25:29" data-start="00:25:27.588" data-end="00:25:29.023">You're right all the way to the end.</span><br> <span title="25:29 - 25:38" data-start="00:25:29.146" data-end="00:25:38.313">No I think it's gonna be more this kind of thing working in short bolts until it gets right and then that and then I presume that and I'm already seeing this.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[25:39]</small> <span title="25:39 - 25:47" data-start="00:25:38.535" data-end="00:25:46.901">That the other segment or chunk of it is gonna be go back and forth go back and forth until it sets it right and then it goes I don't see it.</span><br> <span title="25:47 - 25:57" data-start="00:25:47.051" data-end="00:25:56.849">I understand why you're asking but I don't see it. You get the first note right in the NFL long. Which is something I always thought which is interesting.</span><br> <span title="25:57 - 26:06" data-start="00:25:56.774" data-end="00:26:05.509">I always felt that if I had the.</span><br> <span title="26:06 - 26:18" data-start="00:26:05.569" data-end="00:26:17.734">It's not happening. No. And more and more. I am interested. I write about music. Music has been very important for me and a sort of compositional process but if I have to make an</span><br> <span title="26:18 - 26:25" data-start="00:26:17.695" data-end="00:26:24.657">A comparison with the fully formed page often it was like you know at 3 minute or 2 minute</span><br> <span title="26:25 - 26:34" data-start="00:26:24.537" data-end="00:26:34.181">Punk song which is really knows what it wants to do</span><br> <span title="26:34 - 26:44" data-start="00:26:34.133" data-end="00:26:43.976">It sounds very grindy out the way I say it but it's more symphonic writing perhaps when you think about symphonies you have different parts of it and then often you work.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[26:44]</small> <span title="26:44 - 26:53" data-start="00:26:44.288" data-end="00:26:53.329">There's ears between one part and the other part and there's a lot of going back and forth until it all comes together. When this is completely new.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[26:53]</small> <span title="26:53 - 27:19" data-start="00:26:53.200" data-end="00:27:18.640">Music.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[27:18]</small> <span title="27:18 - 27:23" data-start="00:27:18.487" data-end="00:27:22.550">From what you've said that space and geography obviously.</span><br> <span title="27:23 - 27:34" data-start="00:27:22.574" data-end="00:27:34.028">Hey.</span><br> <span title="27:34 - 27:39" data-start="00:27:34.214" data-end="00:27:39.411">To the taking new notes that are going for a walk.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[27:40]</small> <span title="27:40 - 27:53" data-start="00:27:39.805" data-end="00:27:53.005">Hey the new city for a period it is is that change are you sort of spending in the morning rearranging in the wall writing event staff and then spend the afternoon walking the streets and taking more notes that feed into that or.</span><br> <span title="27:53 - 28:01" data-start="00:27:53.056" data-end="00:28:01.269">Have you do you kind of compartmentalize the writing and that process and that just stays in the room and then.</span><br> <span title="28:01 - 28:14" data-start="00:28:01.347" data-end="00:28:14.340">Is irrelevant to to the president writing list? Yes, I was always travel writer, I think in disguise, and the sense that often.</span><br> <span title="28:15 - 28:15" data-start="00:28:14.535" data-end="00:28:15.402">Urban.</span><br> <span title="28:15 - 28:25" data-start="00:28:15.454" data-end="00:28:24.693">The movements you know travelling, writing trains, visiting different cities and countries and plans that was very I lived in Europe when I lived in UK I was moving back and forth.</span><br> <span title="28:25 - 28:39" data-start="00:28:24.915" data-end="00:28:39.295">Past couple of years had to change the way a bit</span><br> <span title="28:39 - 28:40" data-start="00:28:39.184" data-end="00:28:40.231">That</span><br> <span title="28:40 - 28:53" data-start="00:28:40.102" data-end="00:28:52.915">And so I think I am not writing about the pandemic by any means I think the only traces of the pandemic in my writing are in my translations I work as a translater as well.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[28:53]</small> <span title="28:53 - 29:01" data-start="00:28:53.146" data-end="00:29:00.522">And so I have no notes about what was I going through in the past 2 years and a half</span><br> <span title="29:00 - 29:06" data-start="00:29:00.339" data-end="00:29:06.427">But if you read my translations of let's say animal farm by Orwell in English into Italian.</span><br> <span title="29:07 - 29:13" data-start="00:29:06.560" data-end="00:29:12.657">There's some words I choose in the phrasing of the Italian translation that are come from</span><br> <span title="29:13 - 29:19" data-start="00:29:12.591" data-end="00:29:19.436">The media discourse around the pandemic so the decrease between the it was medicine of all of that kind of</span><br> <span title="29:19 - 29:30" data-start="00:29:19.244" data-end="00:29:29.698">Political bureaucratic talking about the pandemic. So, I find it fascinating that my personal notes, my journals are into translations by going back to your question.</span><br> <span title="29:30 - 29:36" data-start="00:29:29.731" data-end="00:29:35.667">Send I've always wrote about a different about time as I said I had this kind of.</span><br> <span title="29:36 - 29:44" data-start="00:29:35.817" data-end="00:29:43.634">Very a huge part of my writing was absorbed about the question of time loss, memory, with the pandemic, I started</span><br> <span title="29:43 - 29:58" data-start="00:29:43.424" data-end="00:29:57.974">Completely thinking about another dimension which was space really because it was you know I was confined and all of a sudden about that time disappeared and my main percupation was movement space.</span><br> <span title="29:58 - 30:05" data-start="00:29:58.079" data-end="00:30:05.185">And so I think that's what shifted my interest with this new book in really thinking about the</span><br> <span title="30:05 - 30:17" data-start="00:30:05.155" data-end="00:30:17.221">Slow transformation of space in a way but all of a sudden I was missing my sources because being travel writer in the skies.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[30:17]</small> <span title="30:17 - 30:24" data-start="00:30:17.380" data-end="00:30:24.432">Like discipline was born you had all of these</span><br> <span title="30:24 - 30:42" data-start="00:30:24.339" data-end="00:30:42.140">Professors that were writing about foreign tribes from their desk.</span><br> <span title="30:42 - 30:48" data-start="00:30:41.930" data-end="00:30:47.910">Think about a place and then you it's also let's say</span><br> <span title="30:48 - 30:57" data-start="00:30:47.799" data-end="00:30:57.191">Hey I was really thinking about fake out of biographies or hybrid out of biographies with strangers I know it almost felt I was thinking about</span><br> <span title="30:57 - 31:08" data-start="00:30:57.080" data-end="00:31:07.697">Fake travel journals right now in terms of what do I remember of this place I no longer have access to it I don't have longer access to certain walks I don't</span><br> <span title="31:08 - 31:14" data-start="00:31:07.532" data-end="00:31:13.936">Longer I've access to this physical exploration of the world. So, what am I gonna do? How is it gonna change?</span><br> <span title="31:14 - 31:18" data-start="00:31:13.816" data-end="00:31:17.923">For me the writing and one thing i must say i miss.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[31:18]</small> <span title="31:18 - 31:24" data-start="00:31:18.164" data-end="00:31:23.919">Old out here of course I'll be taking lots and visiting stuff like that but one thing.</span><br> <span title="31:24 - 31:32" data-start="00:31:24.069" data-end="00:31:32.012">I I noticed I missed while traveling last or being outside less it was that my objectives became poorer.</span><br> <span title="31:32 - 31:42" data-start="00:31:32.117" data-end="00:31:42.338">So, in a way, I felt I lost a texture. So, I traveled in the past few months. I was so happy. I went to LA to to promote the book.</span><br> <span title="31:43 - 31:51" data-start="00:31:42.506" data-end="00:31:51.268">And I remember that I felt a lot that the air around me was both made of milk and ashes which is something.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[31:52]</small> <span title="31:52 - 32:02" data-start="00:31:51.535" data-end="00:32:02.359">It's no sense perhaps to no one except me but the milk and ashes image brought me back to a sort of landscape in Southern Illinois that I'm writing about so</span><br> <span title="32:02 - 32:06" data-start="00:32:02.302" data-end="00:32:06.311">That kind of perception I had in Los Angeles ended up in the novel.</span><br> <span title="32:06 - 32:14" data-start="00:32:06.353" data-end="00:32:13.909">Translated into another space. So, that's actually what I miss, what I look for, and why it is important for me.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[32:14]</small> <span title="32:14 - 32:25" data-start="00:32:14.248" data-end="00:32:24.954">To to</span><br> <span title="32:25 - 32:35" data-start="00:32:24.879" data-end="00:32:34.875">It makes writing way way more physical like damages you would use. We even more than sound. I would think it's more about.</span><br> <span title="32:35 - 32:46" data-start="00:32:34.917" data-end="00:32:45.993">Text share and how you you just breathe if that makes any sense yes yeah I think it's an important</span><br> <span title="32:46 - 32:51" data-start="00:32:45.855" data-end="00:32:51.466">To some experiences.</span><br> <span title="32:51 - 33:01" data-start="00:32:51.463" data-end="00:33:00.801">Until I don't have a definition for the light of the cities. So, when I was writing about London, Stranger say now, I remember for me.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[33:01]</small> <span title="33:01 - 33:14" data-start="00:33:01.159" data-end="00:33:14.044">The color of the it was a sort of infrared lilac. I remember that. I when I travel to New York I have a very strong perception of the light. They are</span><br> <span title="33:14 - 33:18" data-start="00:33:13.906" data-end="00:33:17.690">Then delayed me as like a long a lunk full of</span><br> <span title="33:17 - 33:32" data-start="00:33:17.489" data-end="00:33:32.363">Flood that has a hard time and coughing out blood which I know it sounds gross.</span><br> <span title="33:32 - 33:41" data-start="00:33:32.216" data-end="00:33:41.159">But to me it's almost until I have.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[33:42]</small> <span title="33:42 - 33:56" data-start="00:33:41.525" data-end="00:33:56.246">Sort of landscape. I don't know the place. I realized I'm very light sensitive. Do you have like a notebook that you carry with you when you when you're in LA and or like a what point did the milk and ashes metaphor explain to my the use of immediately jot it down or.</span><br> <span title="33:56 - 34:03" data-start="00:33:56.487" data-end="00:34:03.304">Pull out your phone and write an error do you just make a mental note tomorrow when I get my desk I'm gonna write milk and ashes on.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[34:04]</small> <span title="34:04 - 34:18" data-start="00:34:03.562" data-end="00:34:18.068">The computer or how does that process a capturing the idea and retaining it work?</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[34:18]</small> <span title="34:18 - 34:30" data-start="00:34:18.416" data-end="00:34:30.437">200 water bottles but I never carry with me. I have a collection of that. You know, there's a cemetery.</span><br> <span title="34:30 - 34:40" data-start="00:34:30.443" data-end="00:34:40.286">Almost all blank</span><br> <span title="34:40 - 34:45" data-start="00:34:40.184" data-end="00:34:44.976">Ugly in a way as a format is that kind of yellowy thing that is trying to make make</span><br> <span title="34:47 - 34:55" data-start="00:34:46.842" data-end="00:34:55.112">Yellow notebooks. So, I put it there and then I translate it in on my computer. So, it's really too machine's talking in my handwriting</span><br> <span title="34:55 - 35:10" data-start="00:34:54.938" data-end="00:35:09.525">But I do have a this is interesting. Notes I take on the phone. The notebooks when they're not blank and I carry them with me. I realize that when I'm outside it encourages me to ride longer stretches of text</span><br> <span title="35:09 - 35:14" data-start="00:35:09.486" data-end="00:35:14.494">So last summer I was travelling and I wrote a short story</span><br> <span title="35:14 - 35:27" data-start="00:35:14.410" data-end="00:35:26.989">In a train ride of 40 minutes so it feels almost a depage I remember when I was setting in college that everybody thought that the computer would lead writing on a computer would lead to</span><br> <span title="35:27 - 35:37" data-start="00:35:26.932" data-end="00:35:37.171">Massive novels. No, everybody was going to write USA because you didn't have, you know, you wouldn't care about the delete function. It wasn't last week. It was very naive. Did you think that because.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[35:37]</small> <span title="35:37 - 35:44" data-start="00:35:37.204" data-end="00:35:44.067">What really writing notes and computers as really made the fragmented form</span><br> <span title="35:44 - 35:55" data-start="00:35:43.902" data-end="00:35:54.500">To explode. So, what we thought was going to happen that we were going to have this, you know, huge stream of conscious is novel, things to the computer, didn't happen, and I realized that when I'm on paper</span><br> <span title="35:54 - 36:02" data-start="00:35:54.461" data-end="00:36:01.729">I do this long hands like really really long</span><br> <span title="36:02 - 36:07" data-start="00:36:01.672" data-end="00:36:07.446">It's almost an extension of my body I could easily type and type in because now that's easier for me to</span><br> <span title="36:07 - 36:18" data-start="00:36:07.299" data-end="00:36:17.699">Use a pen it's easier to use a phone eh and it's keeping me short forms like really short flashes of intuition compared to writing my hand.</span><br> <span title="36:18 - 36:27" data-start="00:36:17.705" data-end="00:36:26.521">Even if it's more difficult to ride by hand.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[36:27]</small> <span title="36:27 - 36:33" data-start="00:36:26.743" data-end="00:36:33.444">But then she says that she writes different drafts of the signal longhand and then she burns them</span><br> <span title="36:33 - 36:40" data-start="00:36:33.387" data-end="00:36:40.024">I don't know if this is true but I think it's a cool story. She burns them in a fire in her garden and then she goes to the computer</span><br> <span title="36:40 - 36:48" data-start="00:36:39.878" data-end="00:36:47.767">And then I don't I don't</span><br> <span title="36:48 - 37:01" data-start="00:36:47.629" data-end="00:37:01.432">Tamia was interesting the fact that she would write everything and she's not you know from a generation of Philip Rod and Dundello would I understand they would write him a tight machine or by hand but it it's interesting to me to see</span><br> <span title="37:01 - 37:02" data-start="00:37:01.429" data-end="00:37:02.404">That this.</span><br> <span title="37:03 - 37:17" data-start="00:37:02.545" data-end="00:37:16.610">Computer, phone writing, didn't go into the direction we all expected 20 years ago. And how are you technically writing the the five pages that you're working on at the moment? So I.</span><br> <span title="37:17 - 37:26" data-start="00:37:16.616" data-end="00:37:25.981">Yes so it's not that I have on my phone then this map that I ride by hand on the wall and I switch and then I have the computer part so</span><br> <span title="37:26 - 37:30" data-start="00:37:25.978" data-end="00:37:30.221">The ecosystem has made up these three elements</span><br> <span title="37:30 - 37:43" data-start="00:37:30.110" data-end="00:37:43.481">Yep. Do you kind of categorize when you're taking a like milk and ash?</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[37:44]</small> <span title="37:44 - 37:49" data-start="00:37:43.902" data-end="00:37:48.973">They might be part of this novel. They might be something.</span><br> <span title="37:49 - 37:57" data-start="00:37:49.069" data-end="00:37:57.273">When you come in 5 years diary writing a novel about your time in Berlin.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[37:58]</small> <span title="37:58 - 38:04" data-start="00:37:57.576" data-end="00:38:03.998">Do any categorization from the north so is it just</span><br> <span title="38:04 - 38:17" data-start="00:38:03.860" data-end="00:38:16.664">Pic the bits that with striking in the morning and pick them up in the wall.</span><br> <span title="38:17 - 38:23" data-start="00:38:16.571" data-end="00:38:23.497">Like milk and ashes then I have a name of a bar then I have my bank Pasco in the same</span><br> <span title="38:23 - 38:33" data-start="00:38:23.395" data-end="00:38:32.697">And then I don't know why instead of writing on the same note I switch them but I don't categorize them so if I go back through time now I have five 6 years of.</span><br> <span title="38:33 - 38:35" data-start="00:38:32.829" data-end="00:38:35.056">Notes I do find.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[38:35]</small> <span title="38:35 - 38:46" data-start="00:38:35.377" data-end="00:38:46.399">Lines or notes that ended up in strangers I know or ended up in this novel but they are not categorized as literary notes they are in the.</span><br> <span title="38:47 - 39:00" data-start="00:38:46.558" data-end="00:38:59.569">And blended with every life everyday life observations in vanalities and numbers and stuff and so I love I used to love but I do sometimes still try to do it right writers.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[39:00]</small> <span title="39:00 - 39:07" data-start="00:38:59.881" data-end="00:39:07.158">Diaries notebooks and journals. So, I was going back to Santa's notebooks and sometimes you would feel</span><br> <span title="39:07 - 39:13" data-start="00:39:07.155" data-end="00:39:13.081">Weird that out because it's not proper journal taking she would for example have</span><br> <span title="39:13 - 39:24" data-start="00:39:13.024" data-end="00:39:24.271">Long list of words she feels fascinated by thy time and so it's mysterious to you would read this long section of adjectives awards and with no comments and then</span><br> <span title="39:24 - 39:30" data-start="00:39:24.223" data-end="00:39:30.339">It's just a list of words randomly then it's what happened to her today then it's a short chunk about a book she bought</span><br> <span title="39:30 - 39:43" data-start="00:39:30.264" data-end="00:39:42.563">Too bright and she had to review then there's something nasty about someone else and that's it and so I feel that sometimes when we look to know to now our phones we do have that we have the word that we pin down because we are so</span><br> <span title="39:43 - 39:52" data-start="00:39:42.507" data-end="00:39:51.863">Impressed by it but then we have the bar we went to then we have the kind of you know I need to remember that this I checked in in this</span><br> <span title="39:52 - 40:04" data-start="00:39:51.797" data-end="00:40:04.142">Place for this reason. Stuff like that. The appointment with the dentist. And so it's interesting to me because I think that's what actually what happens when you read our notes but somehow writers like her would already.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[40:05]</small> <span title="40:05 - 40:16" data-start="00:40:04.688" data-end="00:40:16.079">Working into this iPhone I'm saying iPhone like phone for me. Like in the 60s. Yeah. I translate it a bit that is very dear for me. It's Elizabeth Hardwick, sleepless nights.</span><br> <span title="40:16 - 40:25" data-start="00:40:16.220" data-end="00:40:25.072">If you read that book most of the time you're wondering what's going on or what's happening because party feels unfinished letters to friends.</span><br> <span title="40:25 - 40:30" data-start="00:40:25.096" data-end="00:40:30.258">Notes to the self there is a lot of addresses in the book</span><br> <span title="40:30 - 40:39" data-start="00:40:30.129" data-end="00:40:39.269">And so it's not a proper memoir but there is the addresses of the house she has lived in and people who knew her when they read the book they said oh she</span><br> <span title="40:39 - 40:49" data-start="00:40:39.122" data-end="00:40:48.838">Drew kind of a precise topography even though she never mentions herself. She makes everything elusive. We know that the husband is right below us. She never mentions him.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[40:49]</small> <span title="40:49 - 40:55" data-start="00:40:48.998" data-end="00:40:55.383">But it was interesting that she placed herself in space through the precise address of the houses</span><br> <span title="40:55 - 41:08" data-start="00:40:55.191" data-end="00:41:07.536">She lived in going through the book you would find materials like random materials that make no sense there that are almost like shopping lists you know like eggs and milk and stuff like that and</span><br> <span title="41:07 - 41:17" data-start="00:41:07.479" data-end="00:41:17.430">I, as a translator, I felt at last sometimes because I want, I never wanna talk to writers. I translate. I wanna do my own thing and it's good when they're dead.</span><br> <span title="41:17 - 41:28" data-start="00:41:17.436" data-end="00:41:28.088">What was going on here I know what was happening because there's it's such a</span><br> <span title="41:28 - 41:33" data-start="00:41:27.977" data-end="00:41:33.346">Mysterious piece of work and so if somebody I'm 50 years goes through our you know.</span><br> <span title="41:33 - 41:40" data-start="00:41:33.379" data-end="00:41:39.962">Notes on the phone. It would be interesting in terms of archaeological work. It was gonna be</span><br> <span title="41:40 - 41:50" data-start="00:41:39.797" data-end="00:41:49.531">Difficult to to separate weather that up in a novel what what you know about daily life or what's a mix between this two things</span><br> <span title="41:49 - 41:56" data-start="00:41:49.376" data-end="00:41:55.995">Yes. So, there's a lot of talking about I have friends who are involved in digitalizing the.</span><br> <span title="41:56 - 42:02" data-start="00:41:56.010" data-end="00:42:01.982">Emails Daniel letters you know writers they're so obsession but with you would have to do it.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[42:02]</small> <span title="42:02 - 42:12" data-start="00:42:02.159" data-end="00:42:12.154">Emails and emails I I do think that texts like phone texting is way more relevant to that purpose but phone notes also</span><br> <span title="42:12 - 42:21" data-start="00:42:12.124" data-end="00:42:21.247">Yeah I think if there is a whole hidden world there for I mean some people I guess don't use notes but most people have have these even if they're not</span><br> <span title="42:21 - 42:27" data-start="00:42:21.226" data-end="00:42:26.558">Writing they're not writing there is that sort of hidden world of of notes.</span><br> <span title="42:27 - 42:32" data-start="00:42:26.681" data-end="00:42:32.085">Just the the bar you went to and I think most people would put some ideas down in there. It's.</span><br> <span title="42:32 - 42:41" data-start="00:42:32.236" data-end="00:42:41.240">Ben. I guess that the riders taken that step further to create a world. Don't you think it's the satisfying when people are writing</span><br> <span title="42:41 - 42:52" data-start="00:42:41.112" data-end="00:42:52.061">Consciously notes with the purpose of publishing them. I I think there were a couple of experiments there to publish and novel that was not through the phone. And</span><br> <span title="42:52 - 42:57" data-start="00:42:51.905" data-end="00:42:57.355">Over there it gets a gas a little tricky because you're already taking them with a sort of.</span><br> <span title="42:57 - 43:07" data-start="00:42:57.397" data-end="00:43:06.699">Editing within so I thought those can experiment so we're not talking I think that could get quite quite gimmicky yes exactly yeah yeah</span><br> <span title="43:07 - 43:14" data-start="00:43:06.651" data-end="00:43:13.982">Yeah there's AA fascinating world that didn't I mean I guess people always had people could always take notes in private and keep them in a drawing.</span><br> <span title="43:14 - 43:24" data-start="00:43:14.159" data-end="00:43:23.587">In the house but it they you bit with your phones and the ease of greatly is gonna say you know the billions of people on the planet all have this.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[43:24]</small> <span title="43:24 - 43:26" data-start="00:43:23.873" data-end="00:43:26.450">World of notes hidden hidden away kind of.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[43:27]</small> <span title="43:27 - 43:39" data-start="00:43:26.996" data-end="00:43:39.197">Which is the you know the text message interactions of your WhatsApp whatever that's it's not hidden in the zoo because you actually conversing with someone whereas.</span><br> <span title="43:39 - 43:49" data-start="00:43:39.311" data-end="00:43:48.911">No it's an it's it's hidden from everyone else.</span><br> <span title="43:49 - 44:00" data-start="00:43:48.917" data-end="00:43:59.533">Really obviously very different different processes. Do you sort of have different places in your head when you're sitting down to translate or send down to right? I mean you you mentioned you.</span><br> <span title="44:00 - 44:00" data-start="00:43:59.540" data-end="00:44:00.317">You like to.</span><br> <span title="44:00 - 44:10" data-start="00:44:00.323" data-end="00:44:10.228">To write in in an airport over when you're travelling with the same reply to translation</span><br> <span title="44:10 - 44:18" data-start="00:44:10.162" data-end="00:44:18.096">Do you think oh great that's 3 hours I can sit and write work in the novel or do you think oh I've also got that translation project that could be 3 hours to sit in.</span><br> <span title="44:18 - 44:21" data-start="00:44:18.237" data-end="00:44:21.247">Work a lot or is there a translation just.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[44:22]</small> <span title="44:22 - 44:31" data-start="00:44:21.532" data-end="00:44:30.807">You did that just happens when you sit down at your desk to work in the the novels more fitting in around gaps no so I'm the most boring.</span><br> <span title="44:31 - 44:37" data-start="00:44:30.930" data-end="00:44:37.109">Translator at the desk that it exists because all of my airplane translation is terrible.</span><br> <span title="44:37 - 44:50" data-start="00:44:37.250" data-end="00:44:50.432">I remembered you to of course time.</span><br> <span title="44:51 - 45:02" data-start="00:44:50.519" data-end="00:45:02.270">You need to have reference texts you really need to sit down there and this happen also a book of numbers by Joshua Cohen which is also.</span><br> <span title="45:02 - 45:10" data-start="00:45:02.303" data-end="00:45:09.508">I was touring for the book that was.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[45:10]</small> <span title="45:10 - 45:17" data-start="00:45:09.766" data-end="00:45:17.070">Shortlisted in a prize I always had to be in buses like it was you know kind of a tour life intensively but I had to submit.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[45:18]</small> <span title="45:18 - 45:33" data-start="00:45:17.553" data-end="00:45:33.418">The book to the publisher. So, I was just reading a cars even which was a nightmare. You know, as a car was writing, I had all the rather writers that we know, chilling, and say, what are you doing? I was like,</span><br> <span title="45:33 - 45:37" data-start="00:45:33.181" data-end="00:45:37.028">Supposed to go to a holiday where my friends but I didn't finish on time.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[45:37]</small> <span title="45:37 - 45:46" data-start="00:45:37.430" data-end="00:45:46.138">So this panicky stolen hours of translation are a mess and I still can retrace any translations which is funny.</span><br> <span title="45:46 - 45:58" data-start="00:45:46.279" data-end="00:45:58.462">Where I was at that time and how come the rhythm is kind of fucked up.</span><br> <span title="45:58 - 46:09" data-start="00:45:58.432" data-end="00:46:08.914">Be my flat not even a hotel room not even anywhere else you know I have a very now academic approach I'm boring approach to translation because</span><br> <span title="46:09 - 46:19" data-start="00:46:08.848" data-end="00:46:19.159">It's true that is also rewriting and it can benefit you know about I always have this romantic idea of thinking oh another</span><br> <span title="46:19 - 46:26" data-start="00:46:19.138" data-end="00:46:25.811">Approved she was you know an island here she was there and there how does you know the</span><br> <span title="46:26 - 46:33" data-start="00:46:25.745" data-end="00:46:32.536">Travelling influence to translation but I I doesn't feel it works for me so I need to be in the.</span><br> <span title="46:33 - 46:41" data-start="00:46:32.614" data-end="00:46:41.475">Smallest room possible to translate if that makes any sense. Should he not the smallest room possible?</span><br> <span title="46:41 - 46:51" data-start="00:46:41.463" data-end="00:46:50.928">So over here with this writing residency I'm not gonna be translating at all.</span><br> <span title="46:51 - 46:56" data-start="00:46:50.961" data-end="00:46:56.104">Always an Italian non-fiction in English which feels a little.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[46:56]</small> <span title="46:56 - 47:05" data-start="00:46:56.380" data-end="00:47:05.214">Predictable in a way when I'm not perfectly bilingual and the sense that my English I never studied in school.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[47:05]</small> <span title="47:05 - 47:20" data-start="00:47:05.463" data-end="00:47:20.077">So it comes from family interactions in Tennessee travelling but it's not by the books so I always feel an impostor when I write in English and this is why I didn't translate strangers I know into the English because I would never.</span><br> <span title="47:20 - 47:26" data-start="00:47:20.191" data-end="00:47:26.189">Have submitted the text I would follow the temptation to override it to edit it to.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[47:27]</small> <span title="47:27 - 47:35" data-start="00:47:26.574" data-end="00:47:35.309">To me being travelling across languages makes you feel like a spy almost always worried that somebody's gonna come up to you at one point say oh.</span><br> <span title="47:35 - 47:41" data-start="00:47:35.423" data-end="00:47:41.007">We know you're a foreign agent here, you know?</span><br> <span title="47:41 - 47:52" data-start="00:47:41.040" data-end="00:47:51.954">I'm trying to learn to think that the writing that comes out of it it's way more interesting if you read my now fiction in English you can tell there is some impurities that come from the Italian in my Italian pros.</span><br> <span title="47:52 - 47:54" data-start="00:47:51.996" data-end="00:47:54.312">Since the beginning when I first published.</span><br> <span title="47:54 - 48:06" data-start="00:47:54.400" data-end="00:48:06.295">In Italy my first novel they said oh this is a translation of a dead author a man I remember that was the same they said it.</span><br> <span title="48:06 - 48:12" data-start="00:48:06.355" data-end="00:48:12.371">Man American man and badly translated it into Italian so my first</span><br> <span title="48:12 - 48:25" data-start="00:48:12.251" data-end="00:48:24.884">Critics.</span><br> <span title="48:25 - 48:31" data-start="00:48:24.899" data-end="00:48:31.474">That was.</span><br> <span title="48:32 - 48:36" data-start="00:48:31.579" data-end="00:48:36.326">Which could be perfectly in disguise and thought of as an Italian book.</span><br> <span title="48:36 - 48:47" data-start="00:48:36.476" data-end="00:48:47.039">And so now that I'm doing yup I write short stories slowly and increasingly in English but it's it it's a fascinating process because I'm always worried and also.</span><br> <span title="48:47 - 48:50" data-start="00:48:47.207" data-end="00:48:49.901">Interested in doing when when is it gonna be.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[48:50]</small> <span title="48:50 - 49:03" data-start="00:48:50.349" data-end="00:49:02.658">All English short story or it feels it never lands properly into that language if that makes any sense. Do you feel any of that in in Italian as well? I mean you grew up in your earliest years and.</span><br> <span title="49:03 - 49:12" data-start="00:49:02.853" data-end="00:49:11.669">You didn't grow up in it in Italy. You were in in Brooklyn. Is that right? So you you came to Italy. Wait where you like fluent in it.</span><br> <span title="49:12 - 49:20" data-start="00:49:11.774" data-end="00:49:19.600">Italian from from Barth I wrote was there a switch at some age when you were a young child that you suddenly had to start learning it</span><br> <span title="49:20 - 49:35" data-start="00:49:19.579" data-end="00:49:34.517">Italian. Does that still? Do you still have a sense of it? I'm not fluent in the Italian in some way or.</span><br> <span title="49:35 - 49:35" data-start="00:49:34.541" data-end="00:49:35.489">Articles.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[49:36]</small> <span title="49:36 - 49:48" data-start="00:49:35.864" data-end="00:49:48.182">In Italian and then the cheap editor but complain and say that this doesn't sound right and somebody else would say oh but she's half American but I love to see</span><br> <span title="49:48 - 49:53" data-start="00:49:48.170" data-end="00:49:53.061">When I was six.</span><br> <span title="49:53 - 50:01" data-start="00:49:53.176" data-end="00:50:00.740">And then that was the first time when I said oh but I am also the daughter of a deaf woman who was never flee.</span><br> <span title="50:01 - 50:05" data-start="00:50:00.909" data-end="00:50:05.386">Fluent in Italian later in English and she speaks in a rubbish all your way.</span><br> <span title="50:05 - 50:14" data-start="00:50:05.455" data-end="00:50:13.613">So my syntax in Italian was deeply informed by my earlier.</span><br> <span title="50:14 - 50:20" data-start="00:50:13.683" data-end="00:50:20.239">I was born yes in Brooklyn but most of the people in my family were Italian migrants not educated.</span><br> <span title="50:20 - 50:25" data-start="00:50:20.353" data-end="00:50:24.803">That never spoke Italian Facebook dialect and they spoke Americans land.</span><br> <span title="50:25 - 50:33" data-start="00:50:24.828" data-end="00:50:33.310">So they were an orthodox. It was a black market of language. It was always always this sort of defiant and minor language.</span><br> <span title="50:33 - 50:39" data-start="00:50:33.335" data-end="00:50:39.135">So I I came from Italian dialect American slang and then you know.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[50:39]</small> <span title="50:39 - 50:47" data-start="00:50:39.366" data-end="00:50:46.517">Not sign language but the language of that so when I moved to Italy and I was enrolled in Public School.</span><br> <span title="50:47 - 50:53" data-start="00:50:46.631" data-end="00:50:52.692">What happened to me was happens typically to a lot of children of migration that they try to learn.</span><br> <span title="50:53 - 51:03" data-start="00:50:52.870" data-end="00:51:02.766">The official language of the country they move in the best way possible so I made as a challenge for myself to start to write into read into Italian.</span><br> <span title="51:03 - 51:09" data-start="00:51:02.988" data-end="00:51:09.275">Perfectly in a way which meant by the books and I'll delete it I tried to delete.</span><br> <span title="51:09 - 51:16" data-start="00:51:09.452" data-end="00:51:16.386">All the traces of my mother's tongue which was like literally my mother's</span><br> <span title="51:16 - 51:28" data-start="00:51:16.357" data-end="00:51:27.882">This is why you'll feel so surprising as I would you know graduate from college start working I would ride and then my novel comes out and people says oh she stole her from an American author</span><br> <span title="51:28 - 51:34" data-start="00:51:27.834" data-end="00:51:33.995">Or where does she come from? You know, this is not right in Italian. I said, I put all of my efforts to</span><br> <span title="51:34 - 51:40" data-start="00:51:33.974" data-end="00:51:40.134">Right and good Italian what's happening to me like what's betraying me almost like it wasn't in Obama.</span><br> <span title="51:40 - 51:46" data-start="00:51:40.285" data-end="00:51:46.013">And that was a game changer in the sense that I really resented this for my first books.</span><br> <span title="51:46 - 52:00" data-start="00:51:46.199" data-end="00:52:00.452">But because I felt it was a common of you know not knowing to write not knowing how to use language well or literary wise and then I understood that this kind of impurities and not landing fully in the language.</span><br> <span title="52:01 - 52:08" data-start="00:52:00.594" data-end="00:52:07.789">What was made at you know it's cyphered that language in my own way and so what's happening right now.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[52:08]</small> <span title="52:08 - 52:12" data-start="00:52:08.030" data-end="00:52:12.182">Is something that I never used to do I was really I don't know about you</span><br> <span title="52:12 - 52:23" data-start="00:52:12.072" data-end="00:52:23.399">Disgusted by word please or puns or anything that made language play with itself. I I was not that kind of writer at all. I embrader at all. It would</span><br> <span title="52:23 - 52:29" data-start="00:52:23.333" data-end="00:52:28.863">Really disturbing and now I realized that I come up with a new novel and bentwards.</span><br> <span title="52:29 - 52:41" data-start="00:52:29.041" data-end="00:52:40.620">And I have so much fun with it.</span><br> <span title="52:41 - 52:50" data-start="00:52:40.618" data-end="00:52:50.145">That I can make up my own words in it. I will never do that in English though. Not yet. The do you have puns in Italian? Or is that something that you avoid?</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[52:51]</small> <span title="52:51 - 53:02" data-start="00:52:50.565" data-end="00:53:02.451">Cuz I've heard lots of people with other languages say that they don't really have it. And I think that's to other languages credits.</span><br> <span title="53:02 - 53:09" data-start="00:53:02.367" data-end="00:53:08.627">Fascinated by the Italian Shade of Alice Smith which no last cycle of but his mum pun</span><br> <span title="53:08 - 53:19" data-start="00:53:08.498" data-end="00:53:19.141">And so it is like a big detective game in that case because you don't have an equivalent it's just sounds bad if you come</span><br> <span title="53:19 - 53:28" data-start="00:53:19.012" data-end="00:53:27.810">With something made up in Italian that doesn't exist so you really have to try to make the English prom keep it that way and try to make it sound</span><br> <span title="53:28 - 53:35" data-start="00:53:27.664" data-end="00:53:34.796">Fun which is really really hard</span><br> <span title="53:35 - 53:45" data-start="00:53:34.622" data-end="00:53:44.744">Fun and the source language. So, imagine trying to make fun something in the landing language that you don't really get in the first one, you know? That's interesting when you're originally and you're fully</span><br> <span title="53:45 - 53:53" data-start="00:53:44.651" data-end="00:53:53.431">So when in English.</span><br> <span title="53:54 - 54:00" data-start="00:53:53.572" data-end="00:54:00.255">And they would assume that since you know when was you understand it but I think even for you the English language is so full of you know</span><br> <span title="54:00 - 54:12" data-start="00:54:00.252" data-end="00:54:12.129">Things that don't make sense is full of mysteries. I often translate lately. Irish authors and I understand English but I don't understand what's going on in their heads. You know, so it's the first rating</span><br> <span title="54:12 - 54:20" data-start="00:54:12.072" data-end="00:54:19.753">When the Italian publisher or reader or journalist keeps asking you as a translator.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[54:20]</small> <span title="54:20 - 54:30" data-start="00:54:19.958" data-end="00:54:30.376">Not even the author knows it probably.</span><br> <span title="54:30 - 54:38" data-start="00:54:30.490" data-end="00:54:37.686">Unrealistic expectation that everything has to make sense to me.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[54:38]</small> <span title="54:38 - 54:51" data-start="00:54:38.133" data-end="00:54:50.991">Yeah it can it could be a very cheap trick with a with a</span><br> <span title="54:51 - 54:58" data-start="00:54:50.944" data-end="00:54:58.328">Push to the forefront and the.</span><br> <span title="54:58 - 55:11" data-start="00:54:58.397" data-end="00:55:11.256">Cheap and it can keep everything else but then at the same time I think there is something there's something about language it is speaking English obviously there's maybe more scope than other than no other languages but the.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[55:11]</small> <span title="55:11 - 55:21" data-start="00:55:11.460" data-end="00:55:21.104">The idea of of words having multiple meanings and those meanings that shortcuts and links between those words. I mean that is what makes language.</span><br> <span title="55:21 - 55:28" data-start="00:55:21.227" data-end="00:55:28.387">It gives it a texture and a sheep that's different from other ways of describing the world is</span><br> <span title="55:28 - 55:37" data-start="00:55:28.375" data-end="00:55:36.750">Like in the inner scientific naming structure of the world. Are you sorry to say this is this is an electron or this is</span><br> <span title="55:37 - 55:38" data-start="00:55:36.738" data-end="00:55:38.433">Whatever an each word.</span><br> <span title="55:39 - 55:47" data-start="00:55:38.503" data-end="00:55:46.788">Has to have a definition that relates to one thing and one thing only otherwise the whole structure doesn't make sense. Whereas implicit in the way language is set up.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[55:47]</small> <span title="55:47 - 55:55" data-start="00:55:46.929" data-end="00:55:55.358">You're gonna you're gonna have words that have multiple meanings or multiple meanings with different different words you have choices to make whereas the which you don't.</span><br> <span title="55:55 - 56:03" data-start="00:55:55.409" data-end="00:56:02.506">In other ways you're describing the world and that that seems that seems intrinsic to the what you're doing when you're putting words</span><br> <span title="56:02 - 56:11" data-start="00:56:02.476" data-end="00:56:10.544">One after each other on the page but where the magic of that lies is is is you can't have to do it more subtly than doing your look</span><br> <span title="56:10 - 56:20" data-start="00:56:10.443" data-end="00:56:20.339">I've made a pardon look at me cos that it chiefens everything else. Yes totally because as we said before when you turn Nelson to novels and do it with this edit.</span><br> <span title="56:20 - 56:24" data-start="00:56:20.435" data-end="00:56:24.219">Thinking you're not.</span><br> <span title="56:24 - 56:33" data-start="00:56:24.288" data-end="00:56:33.230">Come now with that kind not shop value but you know your your pretty confident and assertive that is gonna have that reaction in a way and that's what's gonna keep.</span><br> <span title="56:33 - 56:42" data-start="00:56:33.326" data-end="00:56:42.070">Where has when you find accidents between words or when you buy accident or mistake on leash.</span><br> <span title="56:42 - 56:47" data-start="00:56:42.158" data-end="00:56:47.058">Potential that's fascinating to me so what did translation of the title.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[56:47]</small> <span title="56:47 - 56:57" data-start="00:56:47.388" data-end="00:56:56.780">Funny funny things were happening so the finish translator of the book was not no Swedish sorry</span><br> <span title="56:57 - 57:05" data-start="00:56:56.705" data-end="00:57:05.026">Was not immediately happy with the tradition of the title because in Italian it's less than.</span><br> <span title="57:05 - 57:13" data-start="00:57:05.104" data-end="00:57:13.047">When I was moved into the English because of canoe the stranger the outside there we had to come up with another title and it became.</span><br> <span title="57:13 - 57:19" data-start="00:57:13.242" data-end="00:57:18.755">A very I love the title but it's problematic because in your Italian it doesn't have the eye.</span><br> <span title="57:19 - 57:26" data-start="00:57:18.932" data-end="00:57:25.812">Even if it's a narration in third person I'm talking about another character so strangers I know puts the eye in the tile</span><br> <span title="57:26 - 57:31" data-start="00:57:25.810" data-end="00:57:30.692">So it changes even the genre of the book I think in English it's way more.</span><br> <span title="57:31 - 57:38" data-start="00:57:30.761" data-end="00:57:37.750">Little rain on fiction and men work compared to the Italian title which is more biggest but anyway so it becomes strangers I know.</span><br> <span title="57:38 - 57:47" data-start="00:57:37.837" data-end="00:57:46.707">When it's translated into Swedish they don't move from the Italian title cuz I think they have seen issue with no lithrum jack on you.</span><br> <span title="57:47 - 57:53" data-start="00:57:46.722" data-end="00:57:53.287">And they take it from the English so I become strangers I know but can then and Sweden.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[57:54]</small> <span title="57:54 - 58:01" data-start="00:57:53.663" data-end="00:58:00.804">In the Swedish language is an interesting word because it's knowing but it's also known by touch.</span><br> <span title="58:01 - 58:11" data-start="00:58:00.999" data-end="00:58:11.364">And so she said I was not satisfied about the title but since it speaks about body talk about deafness about multisensorial on the stand in the language in the world I find that.</span><br> <span title="58:11 - 58:22" data-start="00:58:11.370" data-end="00:58:21.680">No one can then in Sweden has this kind of textile property to it that is not in the English is not into Italian so it's a layer that Alicia's</span><br> <span title="58:22 - 58:30" data-start="00:58:21.597" data-end="00:58:29.782">A potential that was already there or at least I like to think that it was already there. So, that's what to me as intriguing and being.</span><br> <span title="58:30 - 58:36" data-start="00:58:29.897" data-end="00:58:35.652">A rioter that is very influenced by translation. So, when I ride, I think about these things.</span><br> <span title="58:36 - 58:46" data-start="00:58:35.739" data-end="00:58:46.374">Constantly more than I would think oh I'm gonna use a funny word or I'm gonna make two words blend together thinking that is gonna have you know this kind of.</span><br> <span title="58:47 - 58:51" data-start="00:58:46.560" data-end="00:58:51.280">Exciting in.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[58:52]</small> <span title="58:52 - 59:06" data-start="00:58:51.628" data-end="00:59:05.530">Yeah I think there's there's a set of words that are next to each other that are there's relations but they only they only become a parent after a certain amount of of consideration or moving things around and oh yeah that.</span><br> <span title="59:06 - 59:12" data-start="00:59:05.654" data-end="00:59:12.498">Has another resonance here that I was the residents there before or was it created by the work it's hard.</span><br> <span title="59:13 - 59:19" data-start="00:59:12.540" data-end="00:59:18.584">Sorry to not let you talk you there if the Swedish cat can.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[59:19]</small> <span title="59:19 - 59:26" data-start="00:59:18.923" data-end="00:59:25.867">Can it? Would you when you were saying that it it's brings my mind like kitten in in English like.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[59:26]</small> <span title="59:26 - 59:39" data-start="00:59:26.116" data-end="00:59:39.424">Obviously relating to family which I guess has been has another resonance and that I don't know in in Swedish there is a word that has a similar similar meaning or not but the way that words that is stuck on top of each other or.</span><br> <span title="59:39 - 59:42" data-start="00:59:39.466" data-end="00:59:42.116">Next to each other. There's there's a sort of.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[59:43]</small> <span title="59:43 - 59:49" data-start="00:59:42.752" data-end="00:59:49.470">Special relationship in some way but it's not one that can ever make sense cos it's always.</span><br> <span title="59:49 - 59:55" data-start="00:59:49.477" data-end="00:59:55.466">There was switching and this this word is at one moment is right next to another and they're</span><br> <span title="59:55 - 1:00:03" data-start="00:59:55.463" data-end="01:00:02.749">More or less the same in the next stitch on the other side of the universe and eh in a different different worker.</span><br> <span title="1:00:03 - 1:00:08" data-start="01:00:02.980" data-end="01:00:08.024">How my mind works? You said that about Kennon. He said Kim I was thinking about.</span><br> <span title="1:00:08 - 1:00:16" data-start="01:00:08.147" data-end="01:00:15.613">Shakespeare once said there's no kind and kind in Kim there's no kind in Kim which is very it's a nightmare to just say in Italian</span><br> <span title="1:00:16 - 1:00:24" data-start="01:00:15.538" data-end="01:00:23.697">But then when you think about kind and kin I thought about stranger than kindness by Nick Cape and the original title of the book does a stranger</span><br> <span title="1:00:24 - 1:00:33" data-start="01:00:23.604" data-end="01:00:33.321">So hey Facebook please can you tell me where talking and thank you.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[1:00:36]</small> <span title="1:00:36 - 1:00:42" data-start="01:00:35.920" data-end="01:00:42.480">Music.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[1:00:43]</small> <span title="1:00:43 - 1:00:52" data-start="01:00:42.509" data-end="01:00:52.261">Turkey desk. We hope you enjoyed this episode and you can find more in the program notes. Or on our website</span><br> <span title="1:00:52 - 1:00:58" data-start="01:00:52.196" data-end="01:00:58.302">You can find me and my writing at Lockland Bloom. Com or I'm on Twitter.</span><br> <span title="1:00:58 - 1:01:08" data-start="01:00:58.362" data-end="01:01:07.799">My writing is at Jamie Batchen. Com. I'm on Twitter at Jamie Batchen and I'm on Instagram at Jamie underscore Batchum.</span><br> <br>
<small style="opacity: 0.5;">[1:01:08]</small> <span title="1:01:08 - 1:01:16" data-start="01:01:08.103" data-end="01:01:16.261">If you could remember to like and subscribe the podcast wherever you find it and if you are mined to give us a review</span><br> <span title="1:01:16 - 1:01:18" data-start="01:01:16.142" data-end="01:01:18.305">We told it all helps.</span><br>
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