Hello and Welcome to the Sight and Sound technology podcast. My name is Stuart Lawler. Great to be Back with you for episode number fifty eight.

[MUSIC] As we record this podcast just the second week in June, I can't believe how quickly the year is slipping by. Hope you're well wherever you may be listening and hope you're going to enjoy today's show because we'll be joined by accessibility, usability, consultant and keynote speaker The wonderful Molly Watt is coming on the show she'll be here in just a couple of minutes and Sight Village 2022 is coming soon and so are a whole load of summer specials from Vispero, Stay right where you are. [MUSIC] Yes the summer specials are coming Vispero summer specials. We've been doing this home use program for the last couple of years and it's proven very successful. I think it's even more so important now when we're all in this stage of technology changing all the time, the technology that we use is changing is being updated. I don't know how many times I see office updates, Teams updates things coming down the tracks. The assistive products that we use are also changing and trying to keep up with this changing landscape and in order to do that, they're bringing out updates and new major versions of the technology that we provide and support and train on has all these updates as well. And sometimes if you don't have the newest version you can be disadvantaged and we don't want that. Of course, so here's another great opportunity as we've been doing for the last couple of years for you to get hold of some Vispero/Freedom Scientific software and hardware at ridiculously low prices, huge price slashes on jaws, zoomtext and fusion. Also, the Ruby Handheld magnifiers, Pearl camera, the open books scanning software and focused Braille displays. All the information will be on the Sight and Sound website on the twenty eighth of June, which, coincidentally enough is the first day of Sight Village and we'll all be in Birmingham really looking forward to going to an exhibition and meeting people, and actually you know getting out there and charging to customers again talking about some of the technology that we have meeting other people in this industry of course as well the specials the summer specials will run throughout the month of July. So if you're not going to side village and indeed we are asking people where possible to please order online at www.sightandsound.co.uk, more to come on that. And we'll try and get James Everson on a show in the very near future because James has been the person who's been putting all this together and he's the guy who knows all about the prices and we will have a chat about that. So that's coming up, as is Sight Village of course twenty eighth and twenty ninth of July at Crammore Park Conference and Events Center in Birmingham. And if you're coming to that event go on to the QAC website, there's loads of information there. We're looking forward to seeing people and having a chat, and if you're a regular listener to this podcast or even if you're not, you may be interested to know that we're going to be podcasting live from the event this year, so we're going to put up and bits and pieces as they happen as we find people who want to chat with us, we'll be putting up these little podcast episodes. Mini episodes from Sight Village starting on the twenty eighth of June, so keep an eye on our feed because it will be updated regularly. Now I think that's all the stuff out of the way Let's get on with our main event. [MUSIC] Molly Watt is an accessibility and usability consultant, a keynote speaker who has been at Apple's head office in Cupertino where she has spoken, and she's also low vision and has a hearing impairment. She's someone I've been chatting to for a while, and we've been meaning to get Molly on the show, so I'm absolutely delighted that last week, I had the opportunity to catch up with Molly and have a good chat with her. Now this is a pre-recorded chat that I did on location in my office with Molly on the other end of a call, so not in our regular studio, but I hope the quality will not detract in any way from all the great things that Molly had to say. As I say, I called up with Molly last week and started by asking her to tell us a little bit about her eye condition and her hearing loss Yeah cool, So it kind of comes as a package to be honest. If you say my condition is called usher syndrome, so I was born deaf and was just given my first pair of hearings and that was all there was to it. Really we were just told that I was deaf. It was technical, blip, no family history, et cetera until I got to my teenage years and then I was experiencing a lot of clumsiness and I was unable to read the board and I had lots of headaches and I went for a routine eye test and it was there when they started querying about what was going on at the back of my eyes, and then they asked my parents. Then do you know why Molly is deaf and they said no just told it's a technical blip. That was that. And then he said Well, we think there's something not quite right at the back of Molly's retina, a back of Molly's eye in the retina, We think is linked to the deafness, hence the syndrome, So soon after that, so at age twelve I got diagnosed with Usher syndrome. So what that means is. They have a severe hearing loss and we're hearing and then my visual impairment is progressive. So I went from being partly cited at age twelve to severely sight impaired, which is politically correct for blind at the age of fourteen. So what that means now is I have about I'm twenty seven now, but Touch Wood has been pretty stable the last few years. I have about five degrees useful vision left, and it's mainly in the center, so I don't have any prof vision. That's the blindness of of Usher syndrome, which is called recontinitos, which you may have heard of quite common. But it occurs in the peripheral peripheral vision you know gets rid of all the peripherals night blindness, glare blindness. And a lot of the time not always, but we're left with some useful central vision. So hopefully you know I'll keep hold of that.

Can I go back, then just you mentioned twenty seven Can I go back twenty seven years ago and your parents are told that their daughter has a severe hearing impairment and kind of There's a pair of hearing aids and off you go what was that like growing up? And how did how did they deal with that? Well? I mean this is it mom and Dad had two boys and then they had me. I was their first girl. They were over the moon and then, of course, discovered I was deaf and they were devastated because of course it was just the unknown kind of like Molly ever be able to enjoy music. They're both big music fans. You know they had lots of things lots of scary thoughts. I can imagine any parent would have in that situation, but Truth be told. I had the happiest childhood because my parents are incredibly optimistic people. They were always in my corner now, so from the get go, the very first question was right. How is molly going to communicate? You know we liked her to be able to have. The confidence is that essentially to put her hand up in the classroom and ask for help whenever she needs it. So because of that, we went down the oral route and so I had you know intense speech therapy, which was a lot for both my parents and the school and the local authority like there was a lot of support involved, and a lot of my childhood consisted of sort of being taken out of classes to have one to one sessions with adults, which at the time I definitely resented. But it's definitely paid off. You know like I communicate where I do now. I'm able to do what they do now and it honestly. It just wouldn't have been that way. Had I not have had my parents, and I think they just found strength in that you know seeing me drive as a child and being able to communicate with my brothers and my grandparents and things like that.

Has anyone ever told you can't do that because I suspect if they have you turn around and say Well, I'm going to absolutely prove I can do that. You strike me as that type of person. Yeah, exactly. I have several times mainly after the usher syndrome diagnosis, but just being a deaf child to be honest with you looking back in hindsight, really wasn't that big of a deal for me personally. Obviously, it's different for everybody obviously wore. I had the loudest hearing aids you could imagine, bright loud colours and that was me was me. That's what made Molly Molly and I really didn't care. I had that confidence as a child which I absolutely love about childhood Molly because that's definitely something that I didn't carry on with because once I got the Usher syndrome diagnosis, there were you know like mental health like problems like I really struggled with my mental health at all time. Sort of denial is a very cosy place, depression and anxiety, and a lot of that was contributed by the school that I was at who Yeah, there were teachers that were like you know you're not like everybody else in the classroom. Molly, you're not going to be able to do this and you're not going to do that. And you know I made it all the way to university, thinking I was going to do really well because I made it, and I finally got to where I thought I needed to be. And I wanted to be a teacher a primary school teacher because I just really loved being around children and saw myself going down the special educational knees route and there were things then when they were like well. You won't be able to do that for you because you're deaf and you're blind as if I don't already know this, you know Yeah. I constantly had that you know throughout my life sadly, and you know when I meet people that have disabilities of all kinds. I do kind of in my mind sort of think you know what I'm so glad. I don't have to go through all that again like just being in education with a disability or going to get a job or anything like that. It's just incredibly stressful shouldn't be um, but it is um. You know. It's disappointing in a way isn't it to hear? You say how stressful it is whereas we might think nowadays things are getting better. I'm hearing from you that things really aren't getting better. There's still a lot of prejudice out there. Yeah, I mean it is, but it isn't. I think in a lot of ways obviously with the work that I do as well, I thrive to work towards where things and workplaces in school and all of that is more inclusive and we can all achieve our full potential. But I think working in that field. I see the best of it and I see the worst of it as well. So it's kind of like seeing where some places are really still starting from the very beginning. Other places have a little bit more experience and are listening to people, which is all we ask for, just to sit and listen. I can't say that we're completely lost as a society, I would say in a lot of ways we have progressed. But, we still got a long way to go, and I think we will always have a long way to go to be honest with you because as time goes on more and more, things come out in the woodwork in terms of like disabilities, conditions, technologies and science will always present a package of other issues and challenges to overcome, which isn't to say It's not possible. It is possible, but I think it's always harder than trying to expect society to catch up because they're already sort of playing catch up. I so bring us, then if you can to the now, we just mentioned kind of some of the stuff that you're doing now you didn't. You didn't decide to be a teacher. I think in some respects you're doing something potentially far more exciting, building this can I call it the Molly Watt brand? You know is that what you wanted to develop almost I mean so Yeah, so there's two there's two different, So there's a charity which my family and I set up back in two thousand and eleven and that was because we saw a huge gap, particularly in the charity sector for people with Ushers syndrome. There are massive charities for deaf blind people, but of course, deaf blind is a very broad term. There's lots of it's a massive umbrella of people, and although Ash syndrome is the largest group of deaf blind people, congenital deaf blind people, we were very much ignored because we can see a bit and we can hear a bit. We were kind of just pushed to the side because it was like you don't really need the help you're fine, which obviously is absolutely not the case. And so we set up the Molly Watt Trust and I was kind of the guinea pig and everything so I would kind of go and experience things and then blog about it and then sort of give advice to other people with us syndrome and we fundraising for bits of technology that has helped me help others. So they can you know do their GTSE exams at school with a kindle that can enlarge texts and change the contrast, and you know independently navigate somewhere with an apple watch and things like that. So that's kind of. It's really little. Obviously, it bears my name the Molly Watt Trust, It was not my choice to do that, but there we go, and I think it was just because I had built that profile from the ground up with the help of my parents. You know with the blog and everything, and it was getting quite a lot of traction. So when it came to setting up the charity, you know having it in name made sense, and obviously it's all about usher syndrome. You know it's all completely voluntary on our part, and it's all about everybody and kind of bringing people together families as well, and I think really it helped particularly my parents. It helped them really get get through the diagnosis as well, helping other people help them, so it was certainly like a long old journey and like a very worthwhile one. And then from the employment sites obviously do need to work and earn money with the help of my parents again set up my own company back in two thousand and sixteen and that was you know not long out of the university to be honest because I went to Uni was he hoping to be a teacher? I withdrew because I I just felt defeated at this point because I constantly had to fight and fight and fight and just get lost in the system and you know it was exhausting and one of the only reasons I actually left was because I also had a part time job at Apple and just working as a specialist in in reading on the shop floor and I loved it and I was a real part of the team. You know. They knew how to treat me. They treated me, Molly. I wasn't a burden to them or anything like that and to be honest if I wasn't working at Apple whilst at university, I probably might've stuck out university a bit longer, but it was just such a contrast and experience where I'd be really well looked after and valued at Apple, whereas at uni it was a complete opposite. So I thought you know what sod this. I'm going to leave. I'm going to do some more hours at Apple and just work out what I want to do later um and you know that's just that really helped me out with my mental health because I was just really struggling. You know. I just saw myself going backwards and it just wasn't good for me, so working at Apple and building up my confidence and stuff was great and did that on a weekend they're really good at sort of helping me out in terms of like when I was tired and short of shifts and working around rush hour and things like that. They're brilliant. But what then happened because I continued to blog. I resent getting a lot of interest to work with other tech companies, particularly since my blog went viral, If anybody doesn't know obviously, if you work at Appleyou are solely apple. I honestly got to a point because I did one blog about the Apple Watch and honestly. It was when the Apple Watch first came out and amongst US employees and customers we were all very unsure about the Apple Watch. You know it was like really, What is this what's going to do? everyone was very very unsure. A lot of customers were saying Wow, it's just a con trying to get everyone to buy an iPhone. But I purely out of curiosity because being kind of a tech fanatic. I bought one with the intention of returning it within fourteen days to be honest, but I bought one out of curiosity and I tried out it and everything and I wrote a blog. and this blog was not biased. It was very pros and cons, and it was from the perspective of a deaf blind adult and this block went viral and I think for one or two reasons. It's probably one of the first positive reviews, and secondly it was from the perspective of you know a disabled a deaf blind woman writing about independence the reliance on technology through the Apple Watch. I talked a lot about navigation through prominent haptics and vibrations on the watch and how I was able to do that in San Francisco When I was traveling you know so this this thing went by my website crashed. I had no idea what to do. I thought I was going to get sacked from Apple. I was like oh my goodness, What have I done? My parents were like you're crazy Molly like this is amazing. This is really good. Apple is just a part time job at the end of the day, getting your eight pound an hour. You want to be thinking about your future anyway, so I actually went to Apple in America. I got invited over to the accessibility team over there and I actually was really quite Ballsy and I said look, you know I want a career in this. This is what I want to do. Obviously, I've got a unique niche for technology and accessibility. At this point, Apple is running workshops with people with disabilities. You know like how they can best utilise the products. Using the built-in accessibility features on Apple products, I was like, can you at least give me some kind of guidance or something to aim towards you know a career. and they were sort of you know supportive but didn't give me any clear guidance, so I came home. I handed him my notice and I went self employed my company, but I suppose being able to go to Cupertino, speaking to some very senior people at the accessibility team in Apple That's huge. Amazing amazing really really cool and obviously. Built like contacts, you know so obviously I've got contacts. It's incredibly difficult to work with Apple work to know them, and to say that I've been over there and whilst I was over, there also got in a linkedin and I spoke to them over there and I just throughout Silicon Valley like been to public conferences, and you know just all about that networking and then sort of getting to know people in the know. So it was a real turning point really because it was kind of like right. I kind of didn't realize I think everyone realized before I did that that was kind of where I was heading like in the tech of industry. I kind of left the university to work at Apple purely because I loved the team and I I loved who I was that because you know they valued me and I was confident and they accepted me and my guide dog is one. You know like there were so many things that a lot of people would sort of take for granted in a workplace, but they really knelt it and I just went there because I was happy there. I know since then I suppose and we see you popping up in particular every year on global accessibility where day I was reading your most recent blog. Do you think that the stage of digital accessibility is it really getting better is there still a lot of lip service are people really genuinely trying to do the right thing? I want to say yes, mainly because in the time I've been doing it for a long time which was a most infuriating thing. It still occurs, but for a long time people were just talking about it like accessibility, what a great thing to be doing and thinking about, but they weren't actually doing anything about it. They weren't actually you know actually being productive in that area and building inclusive experiences. It was still very much thought of as an afterthought and kind of something to come back to you know oh. No that's not in our budget. We'll revisit that next year. You know a lot of that um and that that went on for a really really long time and with Global Accessibility Awareness Day, I think we just had our eleventh twelve one Yeah this year. I've noticed more and more companies coming on board and celebrating it, which I think is great. It's a great starting point, but as I'm like constantly urging people online, I'm like please don't let it just be the one day a year that you think about it. It has to be something that is considered all the time in every project you know recruitment and everything like it is everything um. It's not just your digital output, It's all so internal. You know your employees, your recruitment process like a lot of people in place to talk about recruiting a diverse workforce. Well to do that you need to be inclusive. You should design inclusive recruitment processes. LinkedIn isn't necessarily the most inclusive employee from elsewhere. There's lots and lots of considerations that certainly still a lot of companies aren't thinking about, but I would say in that sense we have come a long way in a lot of ways, but there's still holes where it's like OK, they haven't considered this. You know little things like they may have an event, and they thought to invite an interpreter. So, there's a sign language interpreter. Well that's great, but actually for me, who is deaf blind, I'm not a signer. I would actually benefit from lights and captions and some large captions, and some transcription and you know things like that. So, it's just the outside of the box kind of thinking which to me is straightforward, but for people that haven't come across it or worked in it or worked with anybody with a disability. It is very new and alien, and so in a lot of ways it does feel like we must start again. Basic disability awareness. Talk to people that think they already know about accessibility, but actually don�t, and with accessibility is a constant education because technology is constantly evolving and innovating which is brilliant. But that means we've got to keep up with that with the software we've got to be designing accessible, inclusive experiences that work with the technology out there. So, there's a lot more to it. I think a lot of people still have the attitude that it is kind of this, you know add on feature. That's kind of a bonus. You know they might not admit it, but they kind of are that way. But I do think in a lot of ways for myself speaking,I think it is getting to that point where people aren't just thinking about it. Now they're actually doing something about it, so it's something. I think from my personal experience a lot of the time I'd get asked to do a presentation, I'd come in and do a presentation They'd be like that's amazing Molly, really really inspirational. Blah, Blah, Blah Blah, and then I would never hear from them again never, and it's like that that's the most infuriating thing. All you can do is fly the flag, and if you can capture a percentage of people if they will come back and engage.

Molly, I'm conscious of your time. But there are two things I just want to maybe briefly touch on and one is I want to bring you back to the Trust for a second and I was watching social media a couple of months ago. There was this very powerful, some very powerful video footage coming out of what you guys were doing in terms of giving people their hearing back is people who mightn't have heard in years who had low vision if I'm not mistaken with cochlear implants and other technology. But can you do a little bit about that? Though some of the videos were very powerful. Yeah, so it's not the cochlear implant. It's smart hearing aid technology and the GN resound are making and they will have made. There's many. They're a Scandinavian company and they make brilliant smart hearing aid technology. And I was lucky enough to try these hearing aid's six to seven years ago, And that was when they like a different model older model now and the main bonus with these because again I was blogging about them and I was talking about the great things and other people of Usher syndrome are coming forward, saying, Oh, this is great. We really love to get part of these hearings now. Unfortunately they're not on the NHS, which you know that's another issue with you know funding these things so obviously through the charity we're like right, so this is kind of our goal we want to try and fund these hearing aid, but obviously they're not cheap, but the argument being if you are not just deaf, but you're also going blind. It is every deaf person's worst nightmare to lose their vision. Because deaf people are incredibly visual, they rely on whether it be sign language or lip patterns or gestures, facial expressions, all of it to then lose that you know. It's incredibly terrifying, and so the importance of having the best hearing aid technology is elevated. Even more um, so we were kind of really like right. You know we've seen what these hearing aid can do for Molly um. I mean in short these not only just because the thing with digital here technologies is what they tend to do. They just amplify sounds and make everything around us. It's not one hundred percent realistic, but it makes life easier in terms of communication and hearing people for me. When we got these smart hearing aids, it was quite an adjustment because and they were focusing on the clarity of sound so not necessarily, and we're providing everything but making sounds more like with more clarity. So I could understand it better. But I could also hear a more realistic sound and with that for the first time I could localize where sounds were coming from so as someone who's deaf, blind and out and about with my guide dog. There'd been a couple of instances where my guide dog has abruptly stopped because a car had been pulling out somewhere and I've heard it. But I've not heard where it's coming from so from a safety point of view. That's been quite terrifying. Whereas with these hearings I'm able to gauge where these things around me are happening. So, if someone across the road is calling my name, I can roughly hear where they are and what direction they're coming from, or if I'm in a meeting room full of twenty odd people, I can follow a conversation and see where the voices are coming from. I can't see them, but my hearing aids point me in the right direction. So, it's a lot more inclusive and above all else. There's an app that come for the hearing aid. So, the hearing aids with on the app. You can adjust the base the treble, the background noise. You can also contact an audiologist over there. Uh you can yeah so through the audio through the app, there's a form that you fill out and is basically um. You know what hearing aid is broken. This is basically, essentially, if you're broken what which hearing aid is broken, why what noises does it make Blah Blah Blah? And then this gets sent to an audiologist. Audiologist picks it up within forty eight hours, has a look at my audiogram, reviews it, and then add some changes and then sends back this audiogram. I receive it on my phone like a software update if you like and then. It then tells me that I've got to scan my hearing aid next to my phone, and that's what I do. And then it will reinstall and update and fixes it. So that's so the thing is like with that. There's a lot to it because obviously anyone would think that's cool. But if you're deaf blind, you know getting to an audiologist can be really hard work. We don't drive for obvious reasons, so yeah, so we we've now done a good few case now at the molecule where we've given people these hearing A's and we've followed that through with audiology appointments and we go and check in with the audiologists and you know the audiologists have been amazing at sort of contributing and helping us out the trust, But the trust have been founding all of that. So, but Yeah, it's been really exciting.

Molly I suppose finally, before we let you go, What's Molly watts plans for the future What's next on your big list of things? Well, I think you know what's such small because of the last few years. Everybody's had. I think I'm working slowly towards getting back out there and traveling more with my work like I was doing pre covert um, but doing a little bit more of that. And you know building everything back up, So it's you know like everybody again. It kind of just feels like in a lot of ways. You're starting again, but you're not really you know. Things have still been happening or remote obviously, but kind of building that up in my self confidence. I also have a little role that next digital a web agency based up in Maclesfield, and they're a great team that are very focused around human centered design and accessibility is at the heart of everything. They do so spend a lot more time with them. It's definitely what I want to do as well because they're doing some exciting things. You know up skill and meet more people and just create more of an impact just more of the same, basically more of the same and get out in the bow and keep spreading all the great stuff that you're doing Molly. It's been great to catch up with you just before we let you go how can people get into a track? People follow you and keep up to date with all the stuff that's going on, of course, so I did have a website, but I feel like that's really like dated now. So social media would probably be the best one so twitter I'm @MollyWatttalks and twist that is the same handle on Twitter and Instagram. Mollywatt.com Also on Facebook and Linkedin. I'm also on Tick tock for those millennials if you if you're interested. Molly Watt Dot talks about one word, so there's a full stop after Molly Watt and then talks Or there's my email address Molly Mollywat dot com, So Yeah wanna free loads, loads of ways to get in touch and keep in touch with all the stuff that you're doing very. There's always lots of bits and pieces going on your social media, and I enjoy keeping in touch on that way as well. Molly, it's great to chat to you thanks for giving us your time. I do hope it won't be the last time so stay in touch with us. We'd love to get you back on the show, but for now thanks a million for joining us. Yes thank you for having me thank you well that was wonderful, wasn't it. My sincere thanks there to Molly Watt, she she's involved in so many things really isn't she? Mollywatt.com and Molly's already shared all her social media contact details as well. So do make sure you get in touch with her or keep an eye on her activities because I suspect there's going to be lots of them in the next couple of months. That's just about it from this edition of our podcast, but we're back soon until then from Stuart Lowler, Everybody at San Technology take care and thanks for listening.