Narrator: You're listening to the humans of DevOps podcast, a

podcast focused on advancing the humans of DevOps through skills,

knowledge, ideas and learning, or the SK il framework.

Jennifer Servedio: Their life is change, like they're not like

they don't adapt to change or you know, as previous

generations change as part of their life, and they just accept

it and it is what it is.

Jason Baum: Hey, everyone, its Jason Baum, Director of Member

experience at DevOps Institute. And this is the humans of DevOps

podcast. Welcome hack. Hope you had a great week. So perhaps

you've noticed, we happen to be in the middle of a huge

generational shift in the workforce. Perhaps you hadn't

noticed? really started while we were all hyper focused on the

pandemic for the past couple years. We're going to talk

Zoomers, today, Gen Z, the kids who were born between depending

on who you ask 1995 97 through 2010 2012. Well, they're not

kids anymore. In fact, they're in the workforce already.

They're defined by their value driven approach to their careers

and job prospects. And by 2025 Forbes estimates Gen Z workers

will make up close to 30% of the workforce. I know I am shocked

to hear are some survey results recently published in Forbes 90%

of Gen Z workers desire and value a human connection when it

comes to their at work communication. When it comes to

hybrid, three out of four Gen Zers favorite looking for more

opportunities to work face to face with their colleagues. 58%

of Gen Z workers are willing to work nights and weekends if that

means higher getting a higher salary. 67% expressed their

willingness to relocate for a job opportunity. As the most

diverse generation to date, Gen Z is reshaping the workforce in

their own image. They are definitely not the millennials.

They're definitely not Gen X and hair certainly not the boomers.

Here to talk about this with us today is Jennifer serve video

Chief Information Officer at Susquehanna University. Jen is a

visionary and strategic technology leader with more than

22 years in higher education. She has a strong record of

success leading teams through complex technology solutions,

streamlining operations, and driving innovation. Her coaching

leadership style builds strong sustainable teams that thrive

while promoting a diverse culture of excellence. And Jen

is our guest and Jen is here. And Jen, thank you so much for

being on the humans of DevOps podcast.

Jennifer Servedio: Thank you, Jason. I'm happy to be here.

Jason Baum: So are you ready to get human?

Jennifer Servedio: Of course I am. Excellent.

Jason Baum: I think I will be too. All right. So yeah, that

was that was a big intro that I kind of read there. And I've got

to say, I've been dying to do this episode. Because I, I mean,

it kind of crept up on me too. And it just seems like out of

the nowhere out of nowhere, Gen Z who we were talking about,

okay, in 10 years, this is what they're going to be into well,

10 years is like here, and they're in the workforce, and we

need to change some things. So I am so excited to have this

conversation with you. So who is Gen Z? How are they wired? And

what is it that makes them different?

Jennifer Servedio: So, my experience with with the Zoomers

like that Gen Z. You know, they've been through a lot,

right. They have been, like you said, depending on on who is

who's telling you that when they were the range they were born

in, you know, 911, the recession in 2008. Gun violence, right.

They've been through a tremendous amount of, of trauma,

social media influence is is beyond belief and then the

pandemic, the lockdown and 2020 when they're entering the

workforce, right. So here they are. That's something that I've

been seeing lately, where I sit is a lot of a lot of these

people who they were getting ready to enter the workforce,

they they had minimal opportunity, a lot of them went

back to school to continue their education remotely that way and

Now you're dealing with people who are finishing up master's

degrees online, and they haven't been in the workforce yet. And

they're still unsure what they want to do. It's very, it's

very, it's a strange time. But the ones that I do know who are

working, the students who I deal with, day in and day out, they

are driven, they know what they want, right? They, the pandemic

has sort of thrown the last group of them for a loop, which

is really sad. But they will, they will negotiate their way

into what they want. They want a clear path, right? Work life

balance, it's a flip for them. It's life work balance. They

know when they want to, they want a flexible work schedule,

they want it all, basically, and I can't blame them who wouldn't?

Right? They've seen their parents work through jobs where

they're, they're just completely burned out all the time. And now

that they see, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm

going to tell people what I want out of my career, and I'm going

to get it. And honestly, if I'm not continually looking at a

clear path for progression for my people, they're out the door,

because there's a there's a clear path someone else

somewhere else.

Jason Baum: So yeah, they're they're passionate, they really

are. But they also mean it, they back it up. I think to me,

that's like such a huge difference. I think, I think

many group millennials, and they see Gen Z coming in, they're

like, Oh, they're gonna be like the next millennials. And not to

lump everybody. Look, these are all hasty generalizations.

Right? Okay. I'm a con major. And that's like a bad thing,

right? We're not supposed to do that. And yet, when we talk

about generations is exactly what we're doing. Everybody fits

this box. So I'll preface it with that. But that being said,

I'm going to put everybody into a box. Millennials don't

Millennials are opinionated. But then when it comes time to

actually back up those opinions, not the best. Not always as

committed. But then you have Gen Z coming in and they're bold,

they will call you out. They really believe it. And they

believe it's so much like you said they'll leave your they'll

leave their job based on principle.

Jennifer Servedio: Yes. Yes. And they their life is change. Like

they're not like they don't adapt to change, or, you know,

as previous generations change as part of their life, and they

just accept it. And it is what it is.

Jason Baum: So why do you think that is?

Jennifer Servedio: I think it's because they know that they,

they have a lot to offer. Right? So staying in the same place,

you know, growing up living near your parents staying there. And

that kind of I would call it Gen X guilt. That's something that a

lot of my my siblings have. I was quite the opposite. I think

I was born to be a Gen Z. But I was born way early. Yeah, I just

think that they've seen so much in their lives, right. And

they've been exposed to so much and, and I think that their

parents actually didn't want them to grow up with the

struggles they had, right? They don't need to work, you know, 24

hours a day and put their job first. Right? It's clicked with

them. It's not work life balance. It's life work balance.

I mentioned it before they want it all and I applaud them for

it. Yeah, and they're advocates. Right?

Jason Baum: They are. Yeah, I mean, you you touched on

something that I didn't even real, like it didn't even dawn

on me. We talked 911 And I don't know because I mean, we kind of

gave out the the ranges and it always differs depending on

where you look it up. Right? Same with, I mean, all the

generations, right? I've seen Gen X starting anywhere from 77

to 8685. So it depends on where are you? Where are you? Where

are you kind of believe are ending I mean 85 But for Gen Z

911. I don't know how much 911 Maybe played a role in their

lives. I think they were very young. Certainly maybe seeing

their older siblings or parents or whomever being impacted by

it. Maybe. But gun violence. Who, man I didn't even think of

that one and shame on me. I mean, I can pinpoint in my

school years one, and it was Columbine and it was when I was

really sort of on my way out of school. which in some ways made

it scary because it was the same age group. But I don't think it

had nearly I didn't grow up in a world with gun drills, you know,

the gun, the active shooter drills and all that stuff that

they are growing up with now, I can imagine. And I wonder how

that plays?

Jennifer Servedio: Right? Right. I mean, that that actually, as

it gets more and more prevalent, I mean, most recently in the

news. students wanting to go to school online, they don't even

want to put themselves in that. In that situation. So

Jason Baum: what are some major characteristics you've seen in

Gen Z students? That you feel like, and again, we're lumping

them all into one category? Right? But what are some of the

major characteristics?

Jennifer Servedio: Right, I work in technology. So a lot of the

students that I'm exposed to are fit the it profile, right, but

they're not, they're not the introverted Revenge of the

Nerds. It's not that that profile anymore, they're really

creative. They know who they are, they're very individual,

they know, they have a sense of of who they are their worth.

Right, one of the things I do notice, is that when when they

graduate, they have an expectation for what their worth

is, and entry levels, not it. So, so it's kind of a, you know,

that's, that's a struggle for hiring managers, as well as as

well as the person you're interviewing. Because they

really they're negotiators. Right? They know. They have they

have strong beliefs, they have a real strong belief system in, in

their values. And, and that's how they live. And it's, like I

said, I commend them, because a lot of the students a lot of the

struggles right, through the pandemic, everybody is online,

everybody's on social media and cyber bullying, like you

wouldn't think it would it would happen at the college age, you

wouldn't think that that people once they leave their their high

schools would would have time or ambition to do anything like

that. Those kinds of things exist. And yeah, it's a crazy

world that they live in. But like I said, they hold true to

their values they hold true to their identity. They're They're

advocates for everyone, right? To see the people out at at sit

ins and different things that we see on campuses and, and

protests that you see on the news. These are the people that

are out there. And, you know, when you talk about, they're

stubborn, they're very stubborn. So this is something so if I

have a multigenerational workforce, and they hold true to

what like they'll argue until you just you can't argue anymore

and you have to walk away because that you know that they

hold true to their values.

Jason Baum: Is that good or bad?

Jennifer Servedio: I mean, it can be good can be bad can get

in the way in the workplace. Yes, it can tell you that. But

you know, and it's teaching people from from different

generations to work on, on teams together, right understanding

what, what their strengths are that they can learn from each

other. But but a lot of a lot of Zoomers are kind of bullheaded,

I would have to say, they have to be right. So

Jason Baum: with with Gen Z. So as I'm as you're talking, I'm

thinking, wow, that's another comparison with millennials.

Right? Millennials. I feel like when they came into the

workforce, the this happens. I feel like no matter what

generation it is, they're like, oh, they want everything for

nothing. They're coming in, they're going to be lazy. And

they still want it all Yeah, entitled, they want they want

the title without doing the work. Well, Gen Z is like the

opposite Gen Z's like coming in and they're like, give me the

work. Give me the work. I want to do it. I want to, they want

the title, but they want to do the work to get to the title.

And they're like, and they're willing to like I read in the

beginning, almost 60% said they're willing to work nights

and weekends. I don't think that was definitely not the

millennials 67% said they're willing to relocate for a job

opportunity. Definitely not the millennials. So yeah, they're

they're convicted but they're they again, they like you keep

saying that they stand by it. They mean it.

Jennifer Servedio: They want opportunity they want and I

think it's it's embedded in them from from their parents, their

parents wanted them to have the things they didn't have. And

yeah, I mean this is the group of of the If that started the

helicopter parents in the lawnmower parents or the parents

standing behind them when they're going to college, sort

of telling them and it's like I know mom right now. Leave me

alone. Mom, I'm in college now. They know and and I think that

scared their parents, right. I think that scared them a lot.

But now they're they're productive people in the

workforce and they're really changing things.

Jason Baum: Yeah, I don't know what the as a i, I define myself

as as any you'll look it up if you're not sure it's in the

Oxford dictionary. So it's a real thing. It's a real thing. I

swear. Those born in between the Gen X and Millennial because it

is different. If you're born in the 80s, especially the early

80s. And those born in the 90s. I do not see how they can

compare analog past digital present and future. So I think

that the differences there right with with xennials When I look

at it, too, is our I look at it as the last generation of that

old guard. We're the latchkey kids. That's how I view that's

how I view us. We were we were raised by the television. No, we

were we were sorry, mom. We were raised by the television. We

were out after school. No one knew where the hell we were. And

they couldn't contact us. That was great. There were no cell

phones. So I mean, very few people had them and they were

the Zack Morris phone and no one can reach you. So when you call

home you called Collect and you did the remember the commercial

the Bob we had a baby It's a boy. Remember that commercial

still so funny. Because you call collect you get that thing in

before the when you record the prop who it is and then you hang

that up before they get charged? Or mom's gonna? Really? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for the collect call. But it's a different

world. And and yeah, so I think growing up that it is so

different than how your parents raised you, and then how you go

in about right the rest of your life. And it's fascinating. So,

how have you seen over the past few years, that transition, you

know, your your students transitioning to students, staff

and then to the professional world? You know, what, what's,

how are Gen Z ers? Handling that transition? What's changing

about them as they handle that transition? Because look, you

could be one way as a student and say whatever you want, and

then when you transition to that professional world, things

change regardless of the generation.

Jennifer Servedio: Yes, they do. So you know, thinking about

students in the classroom, right? They are, I mentioned

before negotiators, right? They negotiate their grades with

their professors, they get what they want out of out of their,

you know, their work, they will argue until they're blue with

what they think it will be. And that carries over into the

workforce a bit. They want constant feedback. So whereas

you know, a manager would have a one on one meeting with with an

employee maybe once every two weeks. Zoomers are always, like,

how did I do? How did that go? Was that good? You know, do I,

like we don't have anything to talk about when we have our

meetings, because you're always here asking me. But it's a good

thing because they don't want to miss out on anything, right? And

it can be exhausting. But you just it's it's something you

learn to as a manager to, to adapt to but you know, when they

hear about something, whether they're qualified for it or not,

they want to go for it. And that could get really frustrating it

for other people in the workforce. I think that co

workers have to learn how to adapt to generation z's. But but

they do, right, because they see value in them. They're good

people, right? They're there. They're family driven. They want

that that collaborative. sort of you know, I spend more time at

the office than I do at home so I kind of want to have friends

at work. You know, that kind of group. They like to do things

together. They like to they travel in packs. You know,

something I read that Gen Z years prefer to work for

millennials. So are saying why? I thought that was neat. I don't

know maybe because like you, you were talking about millennials a

little bit how they kind of maybe they can be manipulated.

That's what

Jason Baum: maybe they don't stand by their value right

there. Yeah, you Well, they can be shaped certainly. Yeah, it's

true. I think they're willing to, though I think that's that

we can reframe it. I think millennials, and we'll probably

get into this. I know in the direction I want to go with our

next few questions, but I think millennials are maybe more open

than some of the other generations perhaps, to adapt

and change to the beliefs that that Gen Z is, is saying, and

convicted it.

Jennifer Servedio: Alright, because previous generation

bosses like, you know, I'm a Gen X, sir, but I would say that I'm

much more open minded, then a lot of people might my age group

for, for managing, I like to be more of a coach. And I actually

do have, I am a sort of five Gallup strengths coach, which I

use with with my team to understand what their, what

their true innate strengths are, and help push them in those

directions. And honestly, when I think about it, my Gen Z are the

ones who really, really, like, absorb that stuff. They really

want to hear more, tell me more about my strengths, and how I

can be even better.

Jason Baum: It's interesting, because that you know that you

bring it up. I do. Remember, I don't know if you remember this,

when the millennials were coming into the workforce, the xennials

and millennials, and they had an article about how they get along

better with members of the greatest generation than they do

with the others that were definitely not Gen X.

Interesting. And, and certainly not with boomers, because they

remind them of their parents, I think that's my guess. But the I

always thought that was fascinating, too. And I think

that still stands true. I don't know. And, and we could talk

about this, I guess in a bit, but what I'm thinking about when

I told you that we're gonna go all over sometimes on this show,

just stay with it, and you'll have fun. Boomers now that when

I bring them up, that's a convicted group, like, in their

strong feelings, certainly their past of protest, and, you know,

histories, you know, there's there's nothing new in history,

right? You know, it's the past is always going to repeat

itself. And I feel like in some ways, we're kind of getting the

newest generation of the boomers in some ways when they were

kids. Now, you look at the boomers now, I'll say, wow, how

did and I won't say any names. But my parents, those who I know

who are the boomer generation, and went from pot smoking

hippies, in the 60s, who listened to, you know, music

that their parents did not approve of, to very hardline

conservatives, and have much more conservative values, I

would say, then some of these younger generations. Wow, that's

an about face. And I think about like, Wow, are, are we just a

product of where we are in our life from a time perspective? Or

like, are these gender or generations? Like, are they

going to maintain these beliefs?

Jennifer Servedio: That's a really good, good thought. I

mean, I would hope that I would hope that things are going to

continue to move forward with, you know, being advocates

supporting diversity growing. I just Simplot like I live in

central Pennsylvania right now. And sometimes, you know, I come

across people, it's like, how have you even been here this

long? With those thoughts? You know, it's sort of it sort of

brings you back into reality, like, wow. You know, I would

hope that that we would, that will continue with with our Gen

Z years now having having children and, you know, creating

a population of, of good human beings who will continue those,

you know, those values. I hope that that's, that's going on. I

mean, you know, you talked about boomers, boomers, parents were

that was like the silent generation, right? You didn't

hug your kids or say you love them, because you know, that's

you're supposed to, because, you know, they wouldn't be good

people if you did that.

Jason Baum: It should be seen not heard.

Jennifer Servedio: Yes, yeah. When you, you know, I was right

on the tail end of that. I was the youngest of six why I'm the

youngest of six. But you know, it was like, I was the one with

the mouth. And it's because I was, you know, right at the

beginning of that next generation, and yeah, your kids

are seen and not heard and oh boy. Yeah, we need to we need to

forget that ever happened.

Jason Baum: Yeah, that wasn't my grandparents, man. I love my

grandparents to death, but that it's the product of the times a

little bit. All right?

Jennifer Servedio: Yes, it absolutely is. And you know,

it's really funny I hear lots of people always blame the schools,

right? Oh, all the kids are like that, because that's what

they're teaching them in school. And yeah, and it's like, well,

it has to come from from multiple places, right? They're

teaching them to be good humans at home, and, and, you know, and

in school and enforcing that throughout their lives. But

yeah, I just, it's a unique generation I enjoy working with.

With this generation of new employees, I think that they're

like, in technology, I can hire someone entry level, who has an

associate's degree or something. Who can do they get the tech,

right, they get it, they always had technology, they've never

gone a day in their life without a screen in front of them. And

they get it, the only thing I have to teach them is how to do

things the way we do it here.

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Jennifer Servedio: And they thrive. It's just amazing.

Jason Baum: Isn't it fascinating. And my wife and I

just literally had this conversation with with friends.

There's the dude, have you heard of the wait till they're eight

movement? No. So it's yeah, it's an IT. So for alpha. Wait till

they're eight it's wait to give them a cell phone until they're

eight that boggles my mind. First of all, that their first

of all, like that they have cell phones prior to eight because I

didn't have one until college. I mean, wow. And then and, and

then we were talking about leaving, you leave, like we have

an iPad? You leave that out? My daughter? Can she's four and a

half, she could scroll through and get to YouTube and pull up

her favorite videos on her own just because it was there. Yeah,

they are. And no one taught her to do that, by the way. Like

they just they just know.

Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, they do. It's scary. It's scary. But

but just think of the opportunity, right, and they're

addicted to devices. We have to plan on every student that walks

through the door to have at least five devices that will be

connected to our wireless network all the time.

Jason Baum: Wow. So going back to where we were a little bit

before, and some of those values and what they're being taught.

And certainly, you know, we've touched on some of them because

I do believe the tech industry, ironically to me, is on is

really on the forefront of the change that's happening in the

workforce with things like psychological safety, workplace

culture issues, really getting to the heart of it, because

look, it's been bad for a while, you know, the the burnout and

all that and burnout is still a problem. But at least it's being

identified as being called out. It's not like the culture of you

know, when like when Zuckerberg started Facebook, and we're

gonna put a ping pong table, a basketball court, a spa, or

whatever in here, but you kind of work here all like you're

pretty much here all day. You know, that? Thankfully, that's

that's not as much of the culture anymore. And then

obviously diversity and inclusion. And, you know, with

with Gen Z, I'm wondering how do they approach diversity, equity

and inclusion? And what impact do you think they'll have on the

rest of the workforce?

Jennifer Servedio: So just like technology is something that has

always been available. This generation does not know the

bias that previous generations have encountered and have grown

up knowing. And I think that it causes I don't want to say it

causes conflict in the workplace, but people walk away

feeling I think different generations walk away feeling

like they are, you know, racists and it's like they take it to

that extreme. And it's like, wait a minute, no, just

Jason Baum: step back. canceled culture,

Jennifer Servedio: right? Something, something that that I

do absolutely is create a culture where people can, people

can respect each other's opinions. And, you know, it

could be alert, there can be learning moments. Something that

we try to do as a team is I let I let different people pick TED

Talks and, and things around diversity. And we'll watch them

as a group. And we'll talk about them as a group, which I think

is helpful, because then they can see differences of opinion

and sort of have, you know, sit in it with each other, let's

have empathy. And let's see where people are coming from and

talk through, you know, why would you feel that way? Because

a lot of times when you ask those questions, well, why do

you feel that way? People don't know. And that tells me, you

know, that makes them second guessed, wait a minute, this is

something that I've just always thought growing up? And I have

no, I have no, you know, nothing concrete to put against it. I

think that it helps other generations grow the their

commitment to diversity, you know, their commitment to

inclusion, their their commitment to make sure that,

that the right people are in the room when the conversations are

happening. To make sure that everybody's represented, I think

that's, that's, that's wonderful, where I see it, I

really enjoy that, that people are looking out for that. But

I'm not the only one. You know, there, this generation questions

of authority, that's something that I think about a lot, right?

When you think, getting pulled over, right, if you're speeding,

and it's okay, here's my, you know, I can remember like being

in the age group and being terrified, like, Oh, my God,

here's my license registration, I'm not going to say a word, you

know, imagine somebody being afraid, they're getting pulled

over, that they're going to be harassed for the color of their

skin or, or something like that, like just having those

conversations with these different generations is so

important. Just for growth, because you know, these are,

these are kids are Gen z's, who are having kids who don't want

their kids exposed to grandparents who, who have

values very different from what they have, right? Going into,

into different situations where they could be exposed, and then,

you know, them questioning things as a little kid, and

then, you know, I don't know, it's, it's just, it seems like

it could be, things could be so much better. And I think this

generation is actually going to do it.

Jason Baum: Do you think so? I hope so

Jennifer Servedio: a lot of hope. I'm around a lot of people

in this age group all the time. And I just I walk away feeling

like, wow, they get it. Right.

Jason Baum: I thought it was gonna be millennials. I really

did. And but you know, what goes back to what we were saying

about millennials and others. Yeah,

Jennifer Servedio: I don't know. Hey, my generation we used to

glue in kindergarten and

Jason Baum: Well, I think ours won't even get into it.

Jennifer Servedio: I don't know what it is. Jason, you just

bring this out in me.

Jason Baum: I have that habit. Yeah, well, I said it in the

beginning of the podcast, I gave that, you know, they are the

most racially and ethnically diverse generation in US

history. So certainly their makeup is different, and like,

actually different. And so I'm gonna go back to that Forbes

survey, and maybe this will be surprising to you, maybe it

won't be. But according to them, 67% of Gen Z workers reported

having witnessed discrimination or bias based on race,

ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity in a workplace

setting. 44% of them report having personally experienced

it. They also say in this, that 69% stated that they would

absolutely be more likely to apply to a job at a company that

emphasized a racially and ethnically diverse workplace in

the recruitment materials was 70% 88% of them felt that a

recruiter or potential employer should solicit their gender

pronouns. And he, that's these numbers. I mean, they're almost

100% agreement. And then they said that 65% reported feeling

strongly that such questions about gender pronouns should be

part of the recruitment process. But despite their expectations,

only 18% said that they were asked about their gender

pronouns by recruiter. So we do not get this generation. No, no,

we're not there yet. They're there. And they're like, all

they're pretty much. And we are, we are way by way behind them.

Clearly.

Jennifer Servedio: What those sticks tell me is that they're

very, they're mindful of other people, they value the human

connection, right? I want to know what your pronouns are,

because I don't want to misspeak and hurt your feelings. And I

see that all the time on a college campus, much more

empathetic. Absolutely, absolutely. They they definitely

feel for people and they're there for people, they back them

up. I like that.

Jason Baum: You know, coming into the workforce, as always,

it's always a transit is a huge transition, right? You know,

going from pretty much a life of being in school. Yeah, in school

your whole life. To now, it's very different in the workforce.

It's like a whole new jungle, right? And a new set of rules.

And also, now, things that are happening, the socio economical

things that are taking place, impact you a lot more, you're

moving out possibly around that time. You're not leaning on your

parents nearly as much anymore. So yeah, the weight of the world

is now on your shoulders. And so things that are going on make a

big impact. So like for myself, I could say, you know, coming

into the workforce, it was the we were pretty much in the

beginnings, beginnings of the Second Gulf War. And I know,

shortly thereafter, people were coming in in 2008. It was an

economic just the complete collapse and and recession of

the economy. And, you know, the worst one we've had since since

the Great Depression. And that shaped a lot of people for Gen

Z, who's coming into the workforce right now. They've

never been in an office. No, Jen's ears. If you look at the

if you go by the age bracket I was talking about, that means

they're probably around 20 to 23. Depends on how, yes, they've

never been in an office then. Or perhaps some have if they're

going to an office that's that never went remote. But a good

chunk, never stepped foot in an office. And now they're being

asked to go back, I read you that stat on hybrid, they want

to go back, I can imagine why. So certainly, this is a

different transition for them, I think, than any of the others.

So with that said, what type of successes or struggles have you

seen with this age group dealing with that?

Jennifer Servedio: So when we did go remote, every everyone,

there was always the misconception that jobs can jobs

can't be done remote jobs, and it cannot be done remote. Well,

unless you're physically having to touch a piece of hardware.

For someone your job certainly can be remote, at least part of

the time. This generation showed us that they know how to work

remotely, right? They know how to be productive in a remote

setting, do they want to be isolated? They don't right now

all of them, I can't speak for all of them. I do have a person

who's working for me now who the position is is a remote position

and they said you know what, I want to come in a few days a

week. Okay, that's great. They love being part of the team

being here. And now just purchased a home in the area and

we'll be here full time can actually walk to the office. So

it's it's you know, but then you have people who want to be fully

remote and yeah, it just depends on on what they're they're used

to I would say people who live in rural areas do not want to

work remote. They want to be with people people in more you

know urban settings can work in a remote situation and then walk

out the door and be near people so it just depends on what what

the work is and who it is. I do know that a lot of people in

different generations think they can work remote but they really

don't know how to. So this is really the first generation that

knows how to work remotely because that's been that's been

their

Jason Baum: their home many ways they've been preparing For this

their whole lives they

Jennifer Servedio: have Right, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that

I think that that's, that's, I mean, that's something that that

speaks to the type of people they are because they want to be

there, they want the opportunity, right, you're gonna

miss the opportunity if you're not there. And I think that's

and they also want to connect, they really do want to connect

their life is networking, whether it's it's on their

mobile device or in person, they do know how to, they know how to

connect with people.

Jason Baum: Gosh, I can think back to coming into the

workforce and just the nuances that you pick up the office, the

workplace culture, the the, I should say, the office culture.

Going to the lunch room, and watching TV with your

colleagues, going out to lunch with your colleagues. You know,

there's so many things that, you know, earlier in your career, I

mean, ever, someone wants told me a recruiter told me that's

the majority of people don't get their jobs by applying to them,

they get them from people that they already knew. It's through

connections, right? So relationship building, so in

some ways, Gen Z should be prepared to do this, because

they enjoy it. But another way is I maybe I shouldn't based on

our conversation, I kind of feel better than I did before about

Gen Z with with this because I was worried about them. Because

I'm like, you know, I don't know if I would be in my spot in my

career without those early days of networking. And, and I don't

mean just networking, going to a networking event. I mean, like

in the office networking, talking to everyone getting to

know everyone learning about what they do for their job,

people that you know, you have an internship, but that's

nothing compared to once you're an actual employee their full

time every single day. So I wonder what they're missing? Is

that going to hurt them down the line? Or is it a non issue?

Because it's just a different time?

Jennifer Servedio: That's a tough question. Because so I'm

used to managing people face to face. And I know in the

beginning of lockdown. You know, when we were all, we were still

all in the same sort of venue, just zoom, right? We weren't all

sitting in the same room, but we were all there together. It was

not hybrid. When we went to hybrid, it was so easy to forget

that person who was remote. Right? We're having meetings,

it's like, oh, no, did so and so bring a laptop. So, you know, we

can we can zoom? You know, John in or something? I think that

there, it depends on the culture, where, where the person

is working. So that's something that I've been very, very

mindful of, as we move forward with more remote workers, is how

we, how we function in a hybrid mode and how we keep those

people. You know, part of the day to day?

Jason Baum: Yeah, for those of us managers, directors, VPS,

CEOs, wherever, talk to your gen Zers they need they're going to

need the nurturer meant just like just like we got and and

they might not know how to. Although now it sounds like they

do know how to ask for it. But maybe they don't you know, maybe

they're not maybe they're not asking the right question help

them Oh, my gosh, help them because I do fear that there are

things that they're going to miss out. Hopefully with this

return. Now, it does seem like there's some you know, with with

hybrid and getting back to some some in person, hopefully that

that will. These were just a was all just a dream as to years

when I be nice. So shifting gears a little bit. Maybe you

could share with us just like from your own experience, you

know, working with a Gen Z employee, maybe sharing like

what particular success you've had, and then maybe where you've

struggled.

Jennifer Servedio: Absolutely. So gosh, just success. I would

say this would be a success for me if I was a life coach or a

career coach, right? So my my Gen Z years will come to me to

ask for references. Will I be a reference for a different job

somewhere else? And it's like, how did that happen? Like well,

you're always so supportive, and you're always pushing me to grow

and I'm always sending articles about being having you know,

being brave asking questions. You know, that whole thing like

reinforcing their beliefs. And it's like, you know, you have to

go out and look for opportunity, it's not going to come and find

you. Sometimes it does. But most of the time you have to find it.

And just having those, those coaching sessions with my team

members, you know, they will come to me and say, Jen, I got

an offer from someone, what do I do? It's like, alright, let's

sit down and talk through it, let's figure out what you want

to do. I don't want you to go, but I want you to be successful.

So you know, that happens. And unfortunately, you just you, we

have to move on when they leave. But you know, that's a great

thing for them. Because they'll pass that on to people who work

for them down the road, right? They'll help them grow. You

know, somewhere where we fail, I can think during during the

pandemic, just not being able to have that. I like to walk around

and see everybody in the office in the morning. It's one of my

things everybody's like, so how long have you really been here

because you're just getting to your office, stopping and, you

know, waving hello, how's everything, how's this going

out, you know, finding out about their family. That's important

to me. And I think that connection is important to them.

And I think those are things that were lacking during

lockdown that people missed. And, and I may have lost some

people during that time, hopefully gain them back when

they we got back together. But I just think that people suffered

during that time. And being the Gen X or that I, you know, work

myself to death. And I feel responsible for that. I try to

be mindful, I try to create a culture where everybody feels

like, I'm not just listening to them, but I'm hearing what

they're saying. And I'm hearing what they want to do and guiding

them in ways to get to get there.

Jason Baum: You sound like a Gen Z or?

Jennifer Servedio: Yeah, I was born in the wrong era. I think

it's from being in higher education for so long being

around the different students. And really being like, we just

had our commencement and it's just so it's just that that

proud moment to see, you know, all of these people all the work

they've done, and just, you know, on the cusp of the next,

the next opportunity and how exciting that is.

Jason Baum: It's the one thing that we really tried to install

on my own daughter is kindness, kindness, kindness, kindness, my

mind. Yes, kindness. Okay, so we're a Jen, thank you so much.

I really have enjoyed, you know, having this conversation with

you about Gen Z and, and generations. And I hope you'll

come back. I think we have more work to do on this. I think

there's a lot that we could get into when it comes to the

generations, not just Gen Z, we kind of touched on some give a

little glimpse of some of the other things that we could talk

I want to I mean, there's so much to say about generation, so

I really appreciate

Jennifer Servedio: it. No, thank you for having me. This was fun.

Before

Jason Baum: we go, though, I don't let my guests off the hook

that easy. I always ask a closing question. We don't give

this to you in advance. Maybe we should because I sometimes feel

like we get we get you a little bit. We don't we're gonna last

too many gotcha questions. Just one. So what's one question you

wished I'd asked you? And how would you have answered it?

Jennifer Servedio: Oh, wow. One question. So I have this

question that I always ask in job interviews of candidates.

And it's sort of a geeky it question. I think, my spin on

it, but I asked if you could be a superhero. Which one would you

be and why? And honestly, I would want to be Wonder Woman

because she's got the truth. lasso, right. So no one could

lie to me. And she's got those those reflector cuffs and an

invisible jet. How cool is that? I could get everywhere I wanted

to super quick.

Jason Baum: That's that's pretty cool. That's a good one. Yeah, I

don't know who Mine would be.

Jennifer Servedio: Do you want to hear the worst answer I ever

got?

Jason Baum: Yeah. What's the worst answer? Oh,

Jennifer Servedio: I love this. Yes. The worst antari ever got

Fred Flintstone? And I was like, a superhero. And you know what

their answer was? If anyone can push that car with the whole

family in it, including Dino. Yeah.

Jason Baum: Oh my gosh, did they get to chop? No. That's that's

great for Flintstone lamb. Were two people thinking. I was

great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Jen. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Jason. And

thank you for listening to this episode of the humans of DevOps

podcast. So, I'm going to end this episode the same way I

always do, encouraging you to check out DevOps Institute to

get access to even more great resources just like this one.

Let's continue the conversation in the DevOps in the wild

community. That's community dot DevOps institute.com. Until next

time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human,

live long and prosper.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to this episode of the humans of

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