Alba Pardo: Hello, and welcome to the woman in Action Sports

Network conversation space. This is Alba Pardo and today we're

gonna talk with Mel Chang. Mel Chang is a dear friend of mine.

She's an enthusiast of action, sports, and challenges. Melis,

born in the UK and after a brief five year stop in Berlin, and

she's now based in the beautiful small village of goaling in

Austria. And during the day she works at the design, or during

the week she worked with the design agency Kiska, but in her

spare time, she runs the community called she dares. Mel

enjoys sending it downhill in the local bike, Park,

paddleboarding, snowboarding or hiking in the mountains with her

wife and duck. She loves hot pink and hate salary. Today,

we're here to talk with Mel about daring. This community

that she started because she wanted a personal challenge, and

how through her life, she's just put herself in perhaps

uncomfortable positions, and still done it anyway to try out

whether she liked one thing or didn't. She's gonna talk about

her journey through tech and transitioning to action sports,

and how targeting something that you really want requires

commitment and just doing it. Even if you're scared. She also

will talk very honestly and openly about breakdown and

burnout and what does it mean? And how to pick up the pieces,

recover it and continue the journey of daring and doing I

hope we really, really enjoy this conversation as much as I

did. And without further ado, please let's welcome Mel.

Mel Cheng: Cool. Thank you for having me. I'm very, very

honored to be here.

Alba Pardo: So Mel, tell us your story. Who are you from?

Mel Cheng: So my story. I mean, as you just mentioned, I'm Mel

and I'm originally from the UK. Funnily enough, I was always

kind of into sports, but never action sports. And I got into

action sports quite late. Actually three, my wife. My wife

told me to snowboard when I was about 22. I believe. I fell into

a career of tech. I honestly don't know how I was always just

curious as a kid pulling wires and stuff out of things. And you

know, I remember I remember a program called What was it?

There was IC Q, which was like the messaging thing. And then

there was like Netscape, which was an old browser where you

could I think it was either an IC Q or Netscape or something,

you could create your own backgrounds and this DHTML

stuff. Anyway, I started getting into tech, and then somehow I

fell into this tech career. I didn't study at all. But fast

forward a few years, a few country moves have led different

technology teams and stuff. And then I fell in love with action

sports in the mountains, because Sam, my wife showed me them

learn to snowboard, loved it, and then move to the mountains

actually targeted a job in the mountains. Because at one point,

we were driving eight hours, 16 hours for one weekend for

basically one and a half days. So that we could snowboard and

I've got a job in the mountains. So then came down and somehow

fell in love with summer activities. So then turned into

a bit of a biker.

Alba Pardo: Yeah, I I remember when I first met you, you were

working at Nokia. And you were this super enthusiastic, super

technical. We didn't have a clue what you were talking about, you

know, you bought these bunch of sensors. And you were showing us

like Yeah, but we can put it on a snowboard.

Unknown: No like wait was this like we can put it on jacket and

we can do all this crazy stuff. And I'm like, Who is this woman?

And what is she talking about?

Alba Pardo: And then from then on you kind of just Yeah, felt

like we basically I remember you were just starting to snowboard

and you know you went from Yeah, snowboarding and being fast to

just being like, so good. How did you do it? Then equally with

mountain biking if I remember correctly, one of the first

times you ever downhill We worked together and I had gone

few times that moment. So you know that day and felt like I

was really good, I was so much faster. Few years on, we go back

again together. And I couldn't even see your shadow. I was

like, what happens to know? And these translates a bit of what

you did in terms of your view career, tell us about this, you

know, falling in love and actually targeting a job into

the actual sports how you did that transition? I mean, you

still kept it somewhat intact. But how did you transition, you

know, from going to TomTom Nokia to ended up where you ended?

Yeah. Um,

Mel Cheng: I think, honestly, I spent over 10 years in the tech

world, building websites, building apps, leading cross

development teams in London, and then in Berlin. And whilst it

was really, really interesting, and we used utilizing new

technologies and stuff like that, I, I started to realize

how much I loved being around the mountains. And I was just

spending probably, like, 10 to 12 hours a day with friends, but

like real geeks, you know, talking about tech, and then I

was thinking, you know, we could use this for something really

fun as well, like, we don't need just need to build like these

useful platforms. Yeah, for sure we do. But we could build it for

something fun for us as a consumer. And actually, one of

the things that we wanted to do is basic, I mean, this doesn't

sound. This doesn't sound very appealing now, because it's been

done. But this was, what, 1012 years ago, only now. Yeah, it

was a long, long time ago. No one was talking about it then.

And and we were thinking, you know, how cool would it be to

understand how you ride on your snowboard, you know, so that you

could improve so that you could get better so that Ski and

Snowboard Schools can learn how how their students ride, you

know, we could use this and build a service that's super

useful. And also fun, you could game gamify everything, you

know, check what tricks you did, and then you could publish it

online. Of course, that's all being done. Now. I still don't

think particularly well, but it is still being done. And yeah,

and I remember finding women in boardsports, at the time where I

met you, and, and I was like, I've got to go there because

there's just gonna be like so many amazing women that I can

talk to. And you know, maybe I can show this stuff too. And

maybe there'll be interested. And I did, and I just started

surrounding myself with people who I thought were kind of like

minded. But I was bringing in a new world to kind of complement

that a little bit, you know? Yeah. And I remember talking to

you, girls, and you know, you, you also cool. You all had these

really, really cool jobs in action sports, and you knew

everyone and all the pro riders. And I was like, God damn it. I

mean, how boring you know. And when I was going to bars and

meeting these people, they were like, Oh, hey, what do you do?

And I was like, nevermind, nevermind. And I felt ashamed

about it, you know, because I just wasn't part of the crew.

Alba Pardo: And my god, no. And

Mel Cheng: yeah, so I remember speaking to one girl there, who

also actually she wasn't part of the actual sports world, but she

was obviously friends with the guys. And he said, Look, just

target a company, you know, and just ask them like, you know,

show what you can do. But but show, you know, just be you,

actually, because not everyone in actual sports, wants to hire

people in national sports all the time, right? Because you

need fresh, fresh eyes, fresh ideas, whatever. And, of course,

I looked around and red ball was in Salzburg in Austria. And I

was like, right, that's it. And I applied there. I got rejected

about six times I applied for all sorts, because they're not a

technology company, or they weren't at the time. I mean,

they're becoming a bit more now. But yeah, I applied for lots of

different roles. I mean, once I applied for social media, I

hadn't really done any social media stuff, but it did. And I

think there was one who was like a project manager. It was all

jobs that I could have worked out how to do. But I applied and

then I got rejected. And then there was one job that came up,

and it was a product manager. Again, I hadn't really had

experience there. But they invited me for a phone call. And

I spoke to them, and then it worked out. And I was there for

a couple of years. So I was Bringing a bit of tech to the

mountains, which was good.

Alba Pardo: Before we move a bit more into into your career. You

mentioned earlier that, you know, you got into tech

yourself, but you didn't really study. For me. One thing that

I've always admired about you was how confident you worry

about what you were doing and how much knowledge you gained.

And, you know, for me to go to a company such as Red Bull, but

also the ones before like, Nokia, they're huge. How do you

get the confidence? You know, often these certifications are

these titles give you that confidence that you're good for

that job? Even sometimes you have no experience? And that

doesn't mean anything. But how do you get that confidence to be

like, I can definitely do this job. Or I can definitely work it

out how to do it. Where did you get that confidence from? Where

did you get that push from?

Mel Cheng: Yeah, honestly, I don't really know exactly how to

answer that. But, but what I will say is when I was a lot

younger, and like I had had, it was like an admin assistant job.

When I was 17, or something, I actually still applied for loads

of other jobs, just random stuff, random. So one was like,

desktop editor, like a Photoshop kind of thing. One was working

in security cards, one was working as a personal assistant

somewhere. And I applied for those jobs, to get an interview.

So that I would be put out of my comfort zone. And like be asked

questions that I was uncomfortable with, I would

purposely put myself in that situation. I don't, I don't

really know why I did that. But I think that gave me the

confidence now to talk the talk, you know, and just be like,

Yeah, I can do that. You know, we're

Alba Pardo: daring yourself already. Interesting. Yeah.

Mel Cheng: It was almost like a thing that I had to do. Maybe

someone gave me idea, I don't remember. But pretty much all

through my 20s. I was always interviewing, even if I wasn't

looking for a job, always interviewing, just to see and

build connections.

Alba Pardo: Wow.

Mel Cheng: So in terms of actually like getting the

confidence to, to know that I can do something, I'll tell you

a very funny story. My brother actually used to kind of design

stuff in Photoshop. He wasn't ever a designer, but like, he

knew a lot more computer programs that I did some more

designing stuff. So he used Photoshop. And he'd used

QuarkXPress at the time, which is now InDesign. Yeah. And I

went for a job at as a junior graphic designer. I knew nothing

about graphic design, nothing. Anyway, this guy gets me into

this interview. And he's like, oh, you know, so you know how to

use virtual form like, yeah, yeah. Whatever. He said. Yeah.

And he's like, oh, okay, cool. I'd never opened the thing. And

then he was like, so he basically picked up a magazine.

And he was like, so you could lay something like that out? And

I was like, It's been a while. But sure, sure, no worries. And

I remember the salary. It was like 8000 8000 pounds a year or

something. It was so low for this tiny, tiny, local company.

I mean, they must have been desperate, because honestly, I

was lying through my teeth. But the thing was, I got home. And

my brother was laughing. And he was like, what are you gonna do?

Like, if they offer you the job, you've never opened Photoshop.

And I'm like, I know, show me. I was like, show me what to do. He

says opening it. And I'm just drawing boxes, like I have

absolutely no clue. And when they offered me the job, and I

went in, and they were doing like Burger King posters for the

local Burger King and stuff like that. And I just sat there and I

grabbed the mouse. And I'm on a Macintosh computer, which I've

never used before, back in the day. And they had these squares

like in InDesign, you've got the picture boxes, and then you've

got the text boxes, which you do. Oh, and then the layout. I

was just drawing those wondering what they did. And I, I'm not

joking at all. This truly happens as well my life. It

truly happened. And the guy who hired me, he basically showed me

how to do it. And within two days, I knew how to do it. So

honestly, my philosophy is just just take action. Just do do it

because you'll learn you'll figure it out.

Alba Pardo: Wow. And I didn't know that and I can vouch for

how good you became a that particular task because was it

10 years ago? I love My own snowboard magazine, digital

magazine, and you not only coded the whole website, but you also

designed it. So you must have learned a thing or two since

then. Yeah. Maybe if you would have told me that story, then I

would have asked you to.

Mel Cheng: I mean, you know, I think I think one of the key

things that you've got to think about is that when we were born,

we were never born with skills, right? So we started from a

blank slate. So if you don't do something, then how are you

going to know how to do it? Like, you just have to practice

it. And I never, I never fell in love with graphic design. I can

do some stuff in Photoshop. I can do some stuff in InDesign,

but I don't have it. And and you just you learn a bit. And then

you go, actually, I'm just going to move on. I don't want to know

any more, because I'm just not interested. But you only know

that by doing. So about

Alba Pardo: moving on, you work for about two years in Red Bull.

And you were in a position where you were managing like I

remember like something like 50 Something countries or working

with 50 Something countries is like,

Mel Cheng: say seven languages was

Alba Pardo: a huge, huge project. And he kind of just

moved on. What happened next?

Mel Cheng: Well, well, I'll tell you. Another funny. So I kind of

got fired from Redbull. Almost. It was it was kind of a mutual

agreement. They call it here in Australia. But basically, I just

didn't get on with management there. I assumed that I was

hired to, you know, do a job. But actually, they just wanted

someone to say yes, and to do what they wanted to do. So that

just didn't really fit my philosophy. I wanted to make

changes for the better. So I moved on, I found a cool company

called Kiska, which is based in Salzburg as well. And at the

time, they were doing kind of digital websites, but they

weren't doing much digital products and digital product

interaction. And when I talk about that, I mean, like, you

know, when you get a physical product, with lights on it with

a digital screen on it, or like Amazon, Alexa, or echo that you

can talk to it, you can wave at it, you can you know, we weren't

doing products like that. And so I was hired to basically build

up a team to build up that service. And I was there for

about three years, built up a team of interaction

technologists. Creative technologists, yeah, UI

designers, UX designers, which was great. had an amazing time.

However, I think it was almost like my dream job, because I was

prototyping everything. I mean, I was getting to play with cars

and motorbikes and stuff like that. And I got too immersed in

it. And the rest of my world fell. fell behind me, I think,

you know, I kind of stopped thinking about my wife and my

sports and things like that, and I burn out, essentially, so,

which was a really rough time.

Alba Pardo: How do you realize you're burnt out?

Mel Cheng: Yeah, good question. I don't think you do. Well, for

me, what was the exact signs? Okay, two things. One, I shouted

at one of my employees. And then the other one, I burst into

tears when I was doing a PDC, like a development, personal

development plan for one of the employees. I just burst into

tears when she asked me a question. So they were

definitely warning signs. And also other warning signs were

like, I was making ridiculous mistakes. So if you booked,

booked a meeting, or a car or something or a flight for a day

that you think you booked it for? And then you check, because

you're a bit fuzzy, and you're not 100%? Sure, and then you

like you check again. And then you really check and you're like

this? Uh huh. Okay, done. Then you forget that you've booked it

completely forget. You look in your calendar, and you're like,

Oh, my God, I've got to go. And you go, you get to the airport

with ever get the car and it's the wrong day. Then they're the

warning signs. However, you still don't know that you're in

the burnout. Until you basically can't function anymore. Which

was for me, just not getting out of bed crying all the time, all

the time.

Alba Pardo: And going from being a super active person to Do

that. How? How did it impact you? First off? Like I mean, of

course it has long term impacts. And it's a process to manage

that. But first of all, what do you think? What do I think?

Yeah. What do you like you're crying in bed and you're like,

because I doubt that you knew that you burnout like, nothing.

You think you're sick? What what do you think? No.

Mel Cheng: I just thought I I did. It's weird. I don't even

know. Now what I thought I didn't think I was sick. That's

for sure. Because I didn't believe that that was really a

thing. Before burnout. I don't think I believe the burnout was

the thing I was, I was always the one to just shake someone

and go, come on, just get up and do it. Because my parents kind

of taught me that almost yourself together. Yeah, pull

yourself together, get up, you can brush yourself off and get

on with it. I mean, I was, I was hugely depressed, I couldn't

talk to anyone. I lost the ability to actually speak. And

I'm not joking. Like, I could not string a sentence together.

I stopped eating. I was crying when I was walking my dog. And

then I, I just remember being like, What the hell is wrong

with you? Actually, there's nothing wrong, your life is

okay. Pull yourself together. Why? Why are you feeling like

this? And the more I would go into that, the worse I would

feel, because I was giving myself a hard time. And it took

me I mean, it's probably taken me until about six months to go

to feel normal again, normal to feel like myself.

Alba Pardo: So once you're in that super bad state, and you

know, you can literally cannot get out of bed. How do you start

getting on with it? How do you start finding a path to a

solution? What's the first thing you do?

Mel Cheng: Get a therapist, and a coach. So I got both. The

therapist was really really good in the short term because I had

to be put on meds. That's a bit of a rough journey, because it's

always trying to find the right meds for. And, you know, I took

multiple, I think I've got six different antidepressants and

like sleep things, anti anxiety, blah, blah, blah. So getting

that balance, right, and that's always a bit you know, you need

a couple of months to regulate on that to to help you at least

function during the day. And then getting a coach really

helps for forward thinking actions. So like, what are you

going to do now? But I don't think I could have had a coach

in that moment. Because I just couldn't process any thoughts.

Like it wasn't, I just wasn't functioning.

Alba Pardo: You weren't ready to listen yet. It's like when a kid

has a tantrum, and he doesn't matter what you tell them like

they're listening.

Mel Cheng: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Alba Pardo: And, okay, so you got a coach, and then, you know,

fast forward, you go through this thought process, you can

speak, you can function, you start recovering? And what are

the key elements that are kind of pulling you back to the

normal life or to feeling more like you again, but that you're,

of course not just doing that you're also building on top of

it. So you founded a community for women. And, you know, just

as a side hustle. You started life coaching certification, and

you're going again, back to work. So how do you do that and

what's actually pulling you to get back to being you again?

Mel Cheng: Yeah. So I have to give thanks to my coach. That's

Jim from untamed. He's been amazing. I found him randomly

actually, I was looking for the No, that was like a video about

being becoming a nomad or whatever, because I couldn't

actually imagine me going back to work. More to the point I was

a bit scared about facing everyone, but I think he just

helped me see where my strengths were. My strengths are

connecting people. I have a big network. I enjoy being around a

fun loving community. And also, I was passionate about kind of

pushing women to get the best out of themselves. You know,

I've always been that I've always been motivator, someone

who wants to inspire each other, and I, and I feel so much joy

when someone else does something for themselves, you know what I

mean? If they're happy, that makes me super happy. So yeah,

through over nearly two years of coaching with Jim, I came to the

place where I was like, Okay, well, I want to dare everyone to

push themselves daily. And I want to found that so I did, she

does was set up. And as a part of that, I want coaching to be a

fundamental aspect of it, because I think that's really,

really important for you to understand your values, your

beliefs, your strengths, in order to, to push yourself,

because, you know, not everyone is like me, I'm quite outspoken,

I'm quite bold as a character. And not everyone is like that.

And it would take a lot more for someone to dare to go and get a

mullet for example, like that was one of my things on the

podcast. I went out and I got a mullet or I dressed in someone

else's clothes. Someone completely opposite to me. I

wear skate clothes, you know. And I wore a knitted dress with

this see through frilly blouse with high heels and tights. That

is just not me. And I had to walk around the office the whole

day in it, I was so uncomfortable. But actually, it

was fine. You know, and I will do it again. Now, because it's

not so scary that I've done it.

Alba Pardo: i It's so good to see your back that place and

that you're actually putting yourself in that place

intentionally because for a long time I've known you literally

you were screaming,

Unknown: like so scared of this. I don't know what I'm doing and

you were

Alba Pardo: doing it anyways, always throughout your you know,

life, you've always been that person. So you know, see that

burnout kind of displace you from that. But you're getting

back to it and not only getting back to it, but you're

intentionally doing it and knowing that you're doing it and

doing it anyways. And inspiring others to do it is a so great to

see. So talk to me a bit more about cheat errs, what you do,

as you said, you're also doing a podcast like another it's like,

there's another layer is like wait for things and

Unknown: then you go blame you don't have time. Are you

kidding?

Alba Pardo: Um, yeah, the whole project and what the goals are.

And so I can understand what are you doing?

Mel Cheng: I honestly, I will tell you, there is no plan, you

know, I, I kind of just winged it. And I think that was one of

my posts on Instagram recently. Everyone is just winging it.

Because not everyone has this five year plan all detailed out.

And, you know, one thing could come in the way and then you get

derailed. And then, you know, what's the point of having the

plan anyway. So I'm just going day by day. And that's all I can

do. In terms of I would say what it is, I mean, it's not too

dissimilar, you know, from women in action sports, is less

focused on the sports, but it's definitely a community. And it's

a community where we will kind of run things, run some events

and workshops that you can learn from each other. Because I think

everyone in the community has something that we can learn from

100%. And also, yeah, the learning aspect, the coaching

side of things. So that will be a big part of it. We'll be doing

some one to one and group coachings with people who want

to be coached through anything, it could be business, it could

be, you know, anything. And yeah, it's just about having a

community and a space where we can talk and help each other.

And we've got some really exciting things in 2020 to the

beginning of 2022. So I've got a couple of sessions coming up

where we'll have some brainstorming sessions for women

who are kicking off a new business, something like that.

So if they have an idea they can come to one of our we call it

she spark sessions. That's about as far as I've planned that

that's good. Yeah. And then I just lost my train of thought,

but what do I need to I need to plant Oh, the podcast you asked

me Yeah, podcast. Yeah. So we just completed season one,

series one. And again, honestly, I started that I literally I got

a producer because I couldn't edit things. I definitely don't

have the time to edit or anything like that. I just

record it, and then it's done by her. But I turned up for the

first one, it was with one of my best mates. And it was just a

chat, I had no real questions. The only question that I had

was, tell me a time where you broke out of your comfort zone.

Because I, I thought about doing a podcast and I thought, right,

I could plan this out. And I could go for a year. And I could

think about all these questions that I'll ask. And I will do

this, do that, do that get all these guests and you know, have

these amazing, whatever. And I thought actually, I'm just

putting it off. That's like a form of procrastination. To me.

You know, I'm just thinking, the more I'm planning, the more I'm

detailing this is procrastination. So just do it.

So I literally just booked a zoom call. I sat on the Zoom

call with my mate, Claire, and we just had a chat. And you can

hear that in the podcast is probably too casual for a lot of

people. But that's okay. I'm not gonna, I'm not going to appeal

to everyone, it's fine. And, you know, most of them are just

chats, I turned up fairly unprepared. Just ask the

questions that came to my head, and did it. And I think that's a

really important message. Because I think, you know,

because of social media, we see all these really polished

pictures, these really polished videos that people spend hours

on, and then behind closed doors, you know, you have no

idea what's going through people's heads, right? Just put

it out there. Like Gary Vee. I'm not a big fan of him. But like,

I mean, he post pictures of I don't know, his garden, like he

gets a million views, because he's just, it's just voicing

whatever. You know, through this

Alba Pardo: powerful? Yeah,

Mel Cheng: yeah. It's just just do it. I mean, in the words of

Nike, yeah. Is it sounds so easy, but we hang ourselves up

so much on perfection, and, and plans? And so yeah. So the

podcast, I've been recording season two already. And that

will be launched in January, as well. So the end of January.

That one's a bit more prepared. And season one.

Unknown: You've learned you've learned,

Alba Pardo: and you're just doing it, and you're just doing

it and learning along the way.

Mel Cheng: I might get to season three and go actually, I don't

mind podcasting and won't stop. But that's okay, too. You know,

Unknown: I must say that the first

Alba Pardo: conversation I heard the first podcast with Blair, I

was surprised how

Unknown: it felt really structured

Alba Pardo: and really well prepared to me. So you know, you

go you never know what's on the other side, you never know

what's gonna resonate. And this is something we've talked with

Justine as well in other sessions here is that you never

know what the takeaway of the other people's gonna be? How are

you gonna inspire them? What is going to resonate with them? So

it's just important to share it and yeah, show yourself as your

true self. So

Mel Cheng: I would just say on that point with Justine, because

it's funny when I've been coaching, and I've had some

clients, you know, I've asked what their takeaway is at the

end of the session. And honestly, like, they tell me

something, and I'm like, really? I hadn't even thought about

that. Like, I thought it was about something completely

different. And that's why I totally agree with Justin.

Alba Pardo: Yeah, tell me a bit about the lifeguard chief,

because of all my friends that have now become either yoga

teachers or life coaches. You were probably the last one I

thought I would hear of getting into an all respects like I

think they really needed. I mean, a lot of them myself,

like, I guess, coaches and therapists and teachers for

everything, but I would never thought and this is maybe

judgment that you would go into coaching for becoming a life

coach. And yeah, it just surprised me. But it also

surprised me that you got a job as a Photoshop editor for a

magazine so yeah, just gonna shut up now.

Mel Cheng: Yeah, honestly. I don't know. Wait, I've just lost

my train of thought again. What happens when you lose? Okay.

Alba Pardo: How is that experience of training as a life

coach and you're doing already some sessions? Yes. You call

them patients?

Mel Cheng: No. Clients clients? Yeah. Okay, so So, I definitely

also did not plan on becoming a coach. But I think, I think

through my journey of burning out, so, before the burnout, as

I said to you before, like, I didn't really believe in it.

And, and it's not to say that I didn't believe in depression,

but I didn't really understand it. Right. So I didn't

understand the impact that it would have. And I thought, at

the time, before it, I thought it was mostly you know, just

like get up, shake yourself off, and you know, be that kind of

confident person and you'll get through it. No, you are

clinically sick. You are, you're it, you're ill like, there's

nothing you can do. It's like you've broken a leg, you can't

walk on your leg, your brain does not work can't function. So

I think through that process of then me burning out and coming

out the other side. And talking about it, that was a huge thing

for me. I couldn't talk about it for a long time. But when I did

start talking about it, the more people started telling me their

stories. And the more I opened up, the more they opened up, and

I was like, This is so powerful, I'm actually getting goosebumps

now thinking a bit, because, and I think the world is moving

towards that. But you know, when I when I grew up, I grew up my

20s, it was you never really spoke about any problems, or

things that were going on in your mind, you know, you always

just like, we're going to carry on with goods. And now, now I

think we're a lot more open to talking about things. And by

doing that, I started seeing the impact that it was having on

others. So me telling my story, people were like, Hmm, okay, I

see kind of warning signs here. And, you know, I was, I was

telling people how I coped with certain things, how meditations

helped me how, I mean, still, I'm not really your woowoo kind

of kind of girl, but affirmations, telling myself

that I am awesome. And that I am confident. I don't love doing

that it feels a bit forced for me. But for sure, it makes a

difference. And so by telling people that and coaching them

through their, you know, negative self talk, really

brings me a lot of joy, because it helped me. And then you can

see them moving through the process as well. So one example

is that every single day, when we're talking, I still do it.

I'm like, I'm not very good at talking, I don't have a very

good radio voice. Oh, I get really nervous on my VHS, you

know, I don't look into the camera very much, I'm a bit

shaky. The more you tell yourself that, the more your

story is being built, and the more you believe it. And

actually, even if you don't believe that you're the best at

I mean, who is the best at zoom interviews or whatever. You tell

yourself that and then you'll start to act. It's almost like

fake it till you make it. I am awesome. I am confident I can

articulate my words. It's okay. It's okay to say that you don't

need to tell the whole public but you know, tell yourself that

in the morning, when you wake up does bring you a lot of

confidence. So So seeing how some of those tips and tricks

helped some clients also see their value. That brings me a

lot of joy. And so you

Alba Pardo: see yourself as a full time life coach in the near

future?

Mel Cheng: No, definitely not full time. No. I, I do have

clients and I do want to continue doing that. Because

that that's almost like that's my value. And that's my gift I

guess to to the world. I'm giving back. Because my day job

now. I mean, I've taken tech and I've gone into like digital

marketing. I'm not passionate about that. I'll do it. And like

I'll do it to the best of my ability. But it's not something

that I'm like, Oh, yeah. You know,

Alba Pardo: so is that a transition?

Mel Cheng: What the digital marketing? Yeah. From my tech.

Yeah.

Alba Pardo: You know, you you're not passionate about something.

And you've always been very passionate everything you've

done. So I doubt you're going to stay with something that you're

not very passionate about for very long. Do you see as a

transition or as a base now to kind of move on with everything

else you're passionate about? Kind of like an engine that

allows everything else to run?

Mel Cheng: Maybe Maybe, because I mean, I stopped doing tech

because I fell out of love with tech, not because of the

burnout, but more so because of the way that tech is being used

today. It's just quite wasteful. And I don't love that there's so

much like physical waste. But also, so many crap services out

there that are just not needed. You know, like, who needs to

know how you're brushing your teeth, or how you're brushing

your hair with my digital, chipped the hairbrush?

Seriously, I can't get a grip. And then most of these products,

because they're digital, because they have software, and then

they have a life cycle of one year. And then that goes into a

landfill. That's just disgusting. I can't, I just

can't. So moving out of that into digital marketing, now I'm

just marketing the product. But creamer, in all seriousness, I

need, I need a job. And I like to have like a bit of a day job

to pay the bills, but also to keep my mind active. But I

definitely see myself moving towards something that provides

more value and gives back to the world. Whatever that looks like,

I don't know. But for sure she does will be a part of it. But I

don't see myself in the next year giving up my day job for

now. So well,

Alba Pardo: in your own words, it's okay not to have a plan. So

just do it. So out of all these process, which is you know, I

kind of boiled it down to a few phases to over simplify it. But

what are the biggest takeaways that you've you've just to

summarize a bit, what do we just talked about? Like, what are the

biggest takeaways, you've learned her tricks that you'd

recommend? You know, I can start with the one that you said, just

do it anyways. Even if you don't know, just do it. Anyways, I

think that's the biggest one I get from you. And it started

early on with your job interviews, random job

interviews till now. But oh, sorry, good. No, no go one. But

also other takeaways. Maybe not as general but more specific.

The beauty. Yeah, keep and cherish.

Mel Cheng: Yeah. I mean, yeah, the feel, feel the fear and do

it anyway, is a big one for me. So when you get that feeling in

your stomach, for, I don't want to do this or you have a feeling

of procrastination, or you know, you just keep putting something

off, do it. One, one tip I like to do is you have a big to do

list. And there's one thing on there that is like, rolling over

from the next day is for the next days, instead of doing a

lot of people advise you on doing the smallest thing so that

you can tick it off. So you can get like three things ticked

off, do the hardest thing, do the one that you really don't

want to do first. Because once that's done, the rest is easy. I

like that a lot. I can't say that I practice that 100% All

the time, but I like to think that I do.

Alba Pardo: At least you think about it, which is you know,

Mel Cheng: step by step. That's the first step is awareness. Um,

I would say, oh, a good one in terms of like for the burnouts.

I don't know if you resonate with this. But quite often, you

know, when you're running in the mill, right, you're going you're

95 Whatever you your job. And you're like, Ah, it's just

really, really stressful today, tomorrow will be better. Next

week will be better next month will be better. No, it won't.

Because you have no idea what's coming next week, or what's

coming next month, it's going to be worse. So you need to find in

that moment in that day, to make things easier for you, whatever

that is, you have to drop some tasks, you have to raise your

hand you have to say I can't do this today. Is it okay? That we

postpone it to next week, if you're in a job where you know,

you have a manager or whatever, or you just gonna have to say

these things. I don't do you know, but putting something off,

just delays it, and you could delay it for a month, you could

delay it for a year. You'll delay it until you burn out

because it will just get too much. So that's a big one for

me.

Alba Pardo: How do you speak? I just came up with another

question. But how do you speak with someone that you think is

in the weeds of burnout? Or maybe he's not there yet, but

it's getting there or, you know, you know how perspective helps

see where others are better so it's probable that you see

someone getting burned out before that person does. How do

you communicate that to another person? If you can? How would

you like to someone communicate with you? If they could?

Mel Cheng: I think, why not telling? So So if someone's

going through a burnout, I would never tell someone to do

something, I would just be curious and ask questions about

what's going on for them almost coaching them. Because the more

curious you are, the more that they will work it out for

themselves that they're going through that if you approach

them and you tell them, hey, listen, these are warning signs,

like you're in a burnout, they'll be like, don't be silly.

No, I'm not so good. I'm carrying on. That person needs

to work it out for themselves. And so it's, it's just about

asking the right questions at the right time, I'd say

Alba Pardo: how has, you know, sport and the practice of the

sports you like, and spending time outside, help you to

overcome that. And also, for me, I feel like when you're in a

place where you don't want to do stuff, because you don't feel

well, it's really hard to go out there and do it. And I know what

you're gonna say about it, like, just do it anyways, fine.

Sometimes you can't. But, you know, once you start, is it

easier, of course, but what's been your experience with it,

and being so passionate about the action sports as well and

practice them? practicing a lot of them yourself? How have you

used them for, you know, your own health?

Mel Cheng: I mean, actually, through my burnouts, it was

summer that well, the majority of the main part of it was three

summer and that was my mountain biking time. Yeah, when you

said, yeah, just do it. Anyway, when you can't get out of bed

and go mountain biking, actually, I really struggled. I

couldn't get out of bed to go mountain biking, even though I

kind of wanted to, I think, or maybe I wasn't even really

thinking about it. What helped me in that moment, was my wife.

She was like, just go and cut something in the garden. She

gave me like these trimmers. I'm not a gardener. I don't like

gardening is boring. But she was like, just go and cut a few

branches. She just got me outside doing something. I did

it like twice. And I was like, bored of this through them.

Someone messaged me and said, Hey, we're going to Leogang Do

you want to come? And I was like, Okay, can you pick me up?

And they were like, Yeah, sure. They knew what I was going

through, they picked me up. And that made it easier. Because

then I didn't have to go and pick someone else up. I didn't

have to call someone else I didn't have to, you know, the

barrier was lower. As soon as I was on my bike, it was like, no,

no problems anywhere. Because you're so focused on that

downhill trail, the jumps, the rocks, the roots, whatever. It's

just so freeing. And I feel the same on a snowboard. I'm

thinking about nothing else. Maybe about crashing or myself.

But generally, it's like I'm in that moment. And so that that's

all I cared about. And, and I would say doing that exercise.

It gave me more energy. It made me feel alive again. Because I

think the less you do, you know, the more you stay in bed, the

more you don't do anything, the more you don't eat time, you

didn't go outside, you just stopped doing anything?

Alba Pardo: Well, yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of studies

about this, like how the endorphins and the dopamine and

all of the chemical process. But also, of course, the fear of

burnout because you've done too much. You know, like having that

blank space in your head definitely helps you recover.

But also what resonates to me is not only the spark sports side

of things, but also the community side of things. And we

kind of go back full loop again into into this community aspect,

that you're not alone going through this.

Mel Cheng: Right? Yes, you're very, very right. I think when I

started snowboarding, you know, I felt part of this action

sports community. I didn't feel alone and and I think that's why

I loved it so much because it was such a vibe. Yeah, and your

is exactly the same with mountain biking. You feel part

of a family almost. Because snowboarding on your own. Yeah,

you can do it. It's not particularly fun. You know, and

mountain biking by yourself. Yes, you can do it but it's more

well, it's more about the oohs you know, like Yeah, I just

learned this or I just that's That's the exciting part of it.

Alba Pardo: And there's a lot to be taken away from this

conversation. And again, for me, the biggest takeaway is how you

can fall in and out of love of a sport, have a job of anything,

as long as you keep doing it. And as long as you keep trying,

and as long as you know, you find the next challenge and, and

do it and remember that there's someone else there as well, that

can either help you or you can help them and that you never

know what's going on behind closed doors, that you never

know, what's going to resonate to them. And that just by being

there, and calling each other can help out a lot. And it's

going to take you to the next step personally and

professionally.

Mel Cheng: I think I think as well, is to not overthink

things. So I think we have this tendency to think you say that

things. Well, yeah. I mean, I do overthink things for sure. I do

but but you know, if it. So I've got a electric piano here that

I'm trying to learn to play. Don't if you want to learn to

play the piano, just go and do it. I mean, you don't have to go

and buy a new piano, you know, you could just get like a little

whatever. But start now. Actually I do. I've got like a

little comparison. So mutual friend of ours, actually Clovis

years ago, he used to work with me and Nakia. And we both said

that we wanted to learn how to skateboard. And there was a

little skate park across the road. And he bought a

skateboard. I bought a skateboard. And he went out

every single lunchtime. He was terrible. He was absolutely

terrible. He could, you know, barely stand up on the thing. I

could kind of stand up on the thing, but not really do

anything. And I didn't go out with him every lunchtime. He

went out. He's an amazing skateboarder now. Yeah, he's

good now. And damn, I wish I started back then why didn't I

start back then? And now I'm jealous. Why am I jealous, I had

the opportunity to start then it's only it was my own fault.

You know, I'm not going to beat myself up about it. It just

wasn't important enough for me at the time. So if something is

important enough to you, if you wanted enough, just do it. And,

and if it feels scary, like there's a fine balance between

it feeling scary and knowing whether it's important enough

for you. But it's a if it's in your head, and it's been in your

head for like six months. Just go and try. Because what are you

going to do wait another year? And then wait another year? And

then never do it? And then you'll be like, Well, I don't

know if I was any good at that or, and a lot of people I think,

come to me for coaching because they want to find their passion

or they want to know, you know what, what they're going to do

as a new career. Which is try lots of different things. I

worked with a developer years and years and years ago, he's a

world renowned artists now he started stenciling women. And he

does the Mon big buildings now. I mean, he sells his artwork,

you know for oh, no, he was and he was a developer. Yeah, that's

right. Yeah. Yeah.

Alba Pardo: How do you know that you're not being reckless, you

know, like, when you're putting out of your comfort zone. I

mean, I was having a chat the other day without floor. And of

course, you know, if you're a mountain free rider, and you're

at the top of shaman either back the roses, whatever, and it's

dangerous. So the the do it anyways, even if you're scared

often translates to sport and backwards, you know from sport,

it translates to life. But there's always that point of,

okay, you need to prepare yourself to assume that risk

that you're going to take, but how do you make sure you're not

being reckless? When I talked to her, she said, of course, you

know, the mountain is dangerous, and you have all these

variables. And the more that are in, the more dangerous there

are, the more you prepare yourself, to overcome them. And

to make sure that if something does go wrong, you have your

pants figured out and that you have your escape routes and your

safety equipment and occur that knows what they're doing. So,

you know, you just keep preparing better. And that's the

like more and more and that's the only way out of it to still

take a risk and not be reckless. But there's that point of risk

still that the elements still there. So if we translate that

or we bring that back to our life, personal life,

professional life, everything in general, how can we prepare How

can we limit that element of risk in the sense that you're

not being completely reckless and just kind of throwing

yourself with no idea down the mountain, no helmet. You know

what I mean?

Mel Cheng: Yeah, I mean, I'd say, I think I totally

understand it for sports. So like, you know, if I'm standing

on top of a drop, there's, for my bike, there's definitely an

element of risk to it. But I also know my level. And so I can

be scared of doing it. But I also know when it's above my

limits, and I think your body tells you that, like, really, it

does, no, and I've definitely got better at listening and

reading my body. And knowing when I can't do something, in

day to day kind of life. I don't know, I was just trying to think

of a time where it would have been reckless to do something.

Overall, I think. I don't see any kind of situations where it

would be where you'd need to prepare, you know, too much,

maybe, okay, you want a job at Nike or something. And then you

have this overwhelming feeling to go and stalk someone, you

know, in the streets, and like, and stop them when they're

shopping and ask them to give you a job. I mean, it's not

reckless, but it's definitely not going to help you. But I

think, you know, in yourself, what's, what's right, and what's

wrong, and what's going to kind of be helpful to you.

Alba Pardo: Okay, so let me rephrase that a bit. So can you

do you think burnout can be prevented? For instance, in this

case? Do you think that by looking after yourself better,

knowing that there's things that can get to you, like burnout,

like depression, like anxiety, like, all of these mental

challenges and illnesses that are more in our current lives?

You know, can we prepare ourselves better against them,

because they're really late and risks I feel in our community,

and in our society, as well. And we have tools like we have

sports, we have the community, we have all these coaches

available to us, do you think that it is preventable, to some

extent,

Mel Cheng: I think it is preventable, to some extent, I'd

say everyone should definitely have a coach because it's, it's

about creating awareness for yourself, right? I definitely

was not aware of my thoughts and my feelings throughout my 20s

and 30s. At all. It's only now that I'm like, Ah, that's why I

do that. That's why my relationships are this way.

That's why I communicate in this way. And by having that

awareness, I think then you are able to read the signs better

for a burnout, when you're in this in this washing machine

cycle of just running through life, you know, I'm 20, I need a

job, I'm going to university, I need a job, I need more money, I

need a better, better job title, whatever, you're just running,

right? And you want to make more connections, and you want to,

you think you have no time for yourself. But I think it's so

important that you have that community or that sparring

partner, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a coach,

whether it's just a community, I think it's something separate

from your friends. Yeah, it's really important to have that so

that you can bounce, thoughts, feelings, things that are coming

up for you to realize warning signs, and you have that peer to

help you. Yeah,

Alba Pardo: I feel nowadays, it's not so much a question of

what happens if I get burned out what happens if I get anxiety?

What happens if I get pressured? It's when it's going to happen

and in what circumstances and what are going to be, you know,

the coping mechanisms around you, whether it's friends and

family, therapist, a sport, whatever it is that you have

around you. And so I think, again, like with everything else

that we're trying to do is very important to have someone for

presentation someone, experiences of other people that

we can learn from. So it's very valuable for you to share with

us your story in the way you have. And so, you know, openly

and so. Yeah, open and honest because it shows how it's

happening, or it's happened to all of us in a way or another.

Oh, thank you, Mel so much for sharing your story with us and

having sharing this time with us and inspiring us so much