Good morning. My name is Corey Bennett. It's here guest hosting Unite and Heal America with Matt Matern. Today. Today we have a special guest. It's Deni Porej from the Catalina Island Conservancy. Good morning. How are you doing?

Good morning. Most Excellent. Always on the island. You're feeling good?

Good, good. Well, speaking of the islands, for those of us who might not live in California or haven't ventured over here, where is Catalina Island?

Not a lot. Not a lot of people know about the islands of California. But their acquaintance tacular Catalina Island is 30.9 miles south southwest of Long Beach. It's about 22 miles long and eight miles wide. It's a pretty rugged island that has the highest point 2000 feet.

So there's good hiking and climbing. It's a it's a Mediterranean type Island, like the rest of California, which makes it a kind of a global hotspot for for biodiversity and, and that's what we do. The island has about 4000 Very lucky people living on it on a permanent basis.

And about 1 million visitors a year. People come to Catalina to to hike to bike to fish to enjoy many beaches around the around the island. So this is one of the favorite spots for people to come and have an island vacation.

I personally have not done but I do know that people like there because my mother had a bike accident on it. Nothing serious. But she raved about the island otherwise.

We do have we do have Rangers that are regularly patrolling the island. And and they take care of people and make sure that nobody has a very serious accident.

So you said it's about 30 miles off of Long Beach, how would one get to Catalina Island if they wanted to visit, you can leave and get to Catalina in various ways. Swimming non recommended. The other more standard ones are the ferry boats that come from San Pedro, Long Beach. And Dana Point is you're closer to San Diego. And they operate year round more frequently.

So in the summer then and then during the rest of the year. But now that the season is expanding, they're becoming more and more frequent throughout the year. Other people come by, by their private boats, there are a number of other private boat clubs around the island. And then there's also a way of coming with a jetski a little bit adventurous for those who like to do that there is a service operating out of Long Beach. And then there's a helicopter service as well.

We also operate the airport, here on the island. It's it's a very interesting one called the airport in the sky. And the reason that it has its name is that it really is a top of the mountain that was shaved off and turned into turned into an airport. So that is how we get some of the visitors but that is how we also get some of our mail. We depend quite heavily on on ordering things online. So we get that through the airport.

And or we get it through a barge that comes to the island every day. Unfortunately, the Postal Service had to eliminate its jetski fleet. So that makes sense, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So how long how long have you been working with the conservancy?

I have. I have joined conservancy last year in October. I am I'm Serbian. From the Mediterranean. I spent many years in the states getting my PhD and I worked on Guam and I worked in the Midwest. But then last 15 years I worked in the Mediterranean and when I got to Catalina I had a sense of familiarity. Catalina is basically like Mediterranean island but in fantastic shape.

So I you know, it smells like Mediterranean. It feels like Mediterranean. It sounds like Mediterranean. You know, people that get off the boats. They look like the Mediterranean tourists you will have in Sicily on Sardinia, our some islands off of the coast of Croatia.

And what does the conservancy do?

Well, we have a very interesting mission. We manage 88% of the island. The service it was created in 1972. The rest of the island is in charge of the Catalina Island company that manages most of the tourism activities on the island. So We are a nonprofit with a three legged mission, its conservation, education and recreation.

So in short, our task is to keep the island healthy, and to restore it to build a constituency that will help us conserve it in the future through our education programs, and to keep the island open for recreational access. So those those three things that that we do are key to our mission. So our education program interacts with primary schools and with middle schools on the island through various programs.

While and explores kids in nature, we have recently moved on to do more online engagement for people off the island in terms of in terms of COVID, which has been very successful. And then the recreational part is we manage 165 miles of roads and trails. We have a biker camper. We have access for boats, we have educational camps in the coast. So that's part of our recreational.

And I'll never forget when I was eight years old and first went to Yellowstone National Park and saw bison for the first time. But if I didn't know better, and I took this jetski over to Catalina were landed at the airport in the sky. I would be pretty shocked to see that there are bison on Catalina Island, is that right?

Yep, there are bison and a number of people don't know that they are here. But then there's a number of people who actually come to Catalina to see bison. Bison is a is there will be soon celebrating 100 years on the island. They were brought here as part of an effort to to shoot a movie. If you talk to Islanders, you were here, various versions of what that movie actually was.

And what did the crew really do and what did they want to do afterwards. But the they stayed over the years, some some more were brought. But even more were actually removed from from Catalina. So from that initial herd of 14. And a few more they were brought afterwards. At some point, they came to be about 600 bison on the island, which was deemed to be a bit too much for the for the system.

And then they were removed and they were donated to Lakota Reservation in North Dakota. And now we manage the herd of around 100. So so this is a herd that we feel is primarily feeding on grasses. It's manageable, controllable and, and providing income for the local economy, as many people love to go on tours to see the bison. And this is kind of an emblematic cultural symbol now of coming.

And speaking of animals, I understand that the Conservancy has had great success with with foxes as well as all right.

Yeah, that's one of the one of the things that we are very proud of the boxes is a very interesting species. It's smaller than the one on the mainland. Incidentally, it's endemic to to our island. So we have we have a subspecies that doesn't exist anywhere else. It is extremely cute. They feed on whatever they can get their paws on, including cactuses. We have defined foxes that are all smeared with red, and they have been rolling around cactus and eating it.

They also feed on mice and other small mammals and reptiles they can catch. So when we get into the next session, we can spend a little bit more time in talking about about the fox. But I would just say that this was the fastest recovery of federally endangered species in the history of the program. So from when the species was listed as being endangered to the time when when we took it off the list. Only a little bit over a decade passed. S

o this is one of the biggest success of the conservation movement, very proud of it. And we continue to invest in the fox by monitoring by tracking where they're moving, and finding out more about the threat that initially led to foxes decreasing from from some 1500 down to only 100. But we can spend a little bit more time talking about that and in the context of what the actual organization does conservation in our in our next session in how long How long foxes been on the island?

They probably will hear for 1,000s of years, 5,000 years more than 5,000 years. So we consider them to be native. And and we consider them part of our of our natural heritage. There must have been quite a day when the foxes were roaming roaming around and suddenly a herd of bison showed up on Hey, Jackie, you won't believe what I saw this morning. Everybody needing that cactus again?

Yeah. All right. Well, that brings us to a good good stopping point for now. We'll be back. We'll be back to talk more about foxes and other animals and the conservancy. That brings us to the end of the segment. So we're gonna take a quick break. I'm Corey Bennett covering for Matt Matern on Unite and Heal America on KABC.

As you may know, your host Matt Matern of Unite and Heal America is also the founder of Matern Law Group, their team of experienced employment consumer and environmental attorneys are dedicated to leveling the playing field by giving everyone access to the highest quality legal representation contact 844 MLG for you, that's 844 MLG for you, or 84465449688446544968.

11:29 We are back on United New America with Matt Matern, except I'm Corey Bennett today covering and we're here with Deni Porej from the Catalina Island Conservancy. We were talking about foxes we went to the break. And we still want to talk more about foxes. Deni, what is it about foxes. That is just so amazing that you need to continue as well like, like we spoke in the last segment?

They're they're extremely cute. They're endangered. And they're only to be found on our island. So it makes it an emblem for our conservation work. What happened here was that in 1999, there was a virus that came to the island from possibly from a raccoon and wiped out the population of foxes from what was about 1300 down to under 100.

And there was only a population of foxes that survived on the west end of the island, which is separated by the rest of the island through a narrow isthmus. And then then the conservancy jumped into action with Institute for wildlife studies. We set up a captive breeding program brought him back and then we started a very extensive vaccination program. So what we do now is that we are aware of the fact that that virus might come again.

So what we do is we vaccinate foxes, we also put telemetry collars on them and follow them around the islands so that we can detect when one of the colored foxes dies, we go our biologists go and check it out and make sure that it's not another virus outbreak.

So for us, it's pretty important that for for our guests to to keep their dogs on a leash when they're visiting the island because you know, a dog can get a get a virus on the on the mainland. And it takes some days before you find out that, you know, Fido has a virus. And then that can be passed on to foxes. So when people come here, it's just being extra careful to keep dogs on leash. And did that diseases impacting the other species on the island?

No, it was just a fox. Its canine distemper virus. So it got to get to the foxes. And like I say, you know, thankfully there was an isolated population that survived. We knew what the virus was. And so this is a part of the program that not only us but other Channel Islands implement on their selfies.

And speaking of your success stories with with animals, a lot of folks think you have to go to the Pacific Northwest to truly enjoy the bald eagle population that it turns out they could just come to Catalina is that right?

Yep, they can they can come to Catalina that's another success story that we're very proud of our bald eagles for those people who don't know we're we're almost wiped out by DDT, a chemical use to control insects and what that does is when when DDT gets in the water, it gets into fish and then it accumulates in the Eagles and it causes eagles to produce eggs that have very thin shells, the shells break.

So that was that was a cause of almost disappearance of of all leading so what we did again in partnership with EC for wildlife studies was to to capture rear some of the chicks. and make conditions for them to come back. So now we had last year we had eight bald eagle chicks in six nests successfully, a hatch on on Kellyanne island. So our visitors can can get to see the nests, which are huge.

And you know, when you think about, I mean, even for me is about is the surprise was, you know, let's go see a bald eagle check. And you're thinking you're going to look at something this big. Oh, my goodness, that is, you know, yay big.

So their checks are massive by the time they get to one point. Yes, you can see them around Catalina, a fisherman, no. Fisherman have encounters with him. And you know, they're just a wonderful sight to see.

I imagine between the bald eagles and the foxes, the rodent population is relatively under control.

But we have we have a native ground squirrel. That is kind of all over the place. They're a little bit bigger than their counterparts on the mainland, which is what what happens on islands. That's why what makes islands very interesting. We have a species that are getting bigger as species that are getting smaller goals.

When it comes to plants. We have some giant giant plants. When it comes to animals. Our our squirrels are are bigger. They're they're giants, but our foxes are bison are smaller. So there's a lot of interesting things happening here here in the US. But we do have some some some mice on the island. And a couple of basically where we have problems with rats, but in generally things under control. Everything's bigger in Texas, but no one talks about it's also bigger than Catalina.

Well, I mean, an interesting thing is that for example, our hummingbirds have beaks longer than they are on the mainland. Our hummingbirds we have two species. They are lovely little critters and their beaks are about two millimeters longer than they are on the ones on the mainland. And in human terms, this will translate into four inches of height, an average taller if we were humans than ones on the mainland.

So yeah, they are they're adapting to the changing environment here Catalina there's some flowers on which they feed. They recently arrived on the on the island. So they're, you know, evolution is taking place and our place is changing.

So, you know, kind of speaking of evolution and bringing this back to the present. We've talked about some great success stories of the island. What makes it special? What kind of things is the conservancy working on right now?

Well, our our main objective as the Conservation Department that I lead is to help understand what has happened here on the island and where where is the ecosystem on the island going in the future? And what is it that we can do about it? My new Catalina was extremely heavily grazed in the past we had at any point in time, we had up to 25,000 Sheep 25,000 Goats.

We had wild pig on the island we had we had cattle. And so Catalina Island was was very heavily grazed. So with the disappearance of sheep and, and cow farming, what was left on the island in terms of animals that grazing for germ or bison, pigs, goats and deer, and goats and pigs are animals that are incredibly destructive to the system and they were removed recently. almost 20 years ago now, the island is greatly recovering from from that trauma.

We have bison and manageable numbers and we still have a bit of a problem with deer. They go out and they they eat the plants that are sensitive or endangered or trying to recover. So we have a number of areas where we fence off parts of the island to keep the deer out. And so the other programs that we have, you know it's never a dull day here we have a tiny little mammal, a smile a Catalina Island shrew about a big and a little bit of a tail to it.

It's I think that also arounds the toughest mammal in the world. These guys have to live only a little bit over a year. They look like like a little mouse but with a longer nose. They live maybe 14 months. Every day they have to eat their weight in insects. So they're just non stop, run a run a run eat. They're so active that we can't use regular traps to catch them because if you know for sure it stays in, in without food for more a day and just might die.

And they are again, that's another species that is found only here and in on Catalina. We haven't they're very rare and we actually haven't seen one live since 2006. And only in the last year, we have made two recordings of the show. So we have cameras out on the landscape, and we have volunteers helping us go through 1,000s and 1,000s of photographs to see if we can discover the waters. So you know, it's that's a part of the excitement of being a biologist here on Catalina is it you get to see something that hasn't been seen in such a long time.

And so that's what we biologists do you know, we have parties when we discover a shirt. So that's one of the programs. The other one is yeah, we're recording the bats. We have bad detectors around the island, we just discovered a few new species over the last year we have Catalina is is one of the biggest colonies of seabirds called the mural and they look like little penguins black on the top and white at the bottom that when you touch them their bellies are like made out of out of jello that is impermeable to water. We go out and do night surveys and and try to protect their nests. So on the side of wildlife like I say Never Never a dull day.

Okay, well, shrews and bats and is that those cameras that you monitor the bats with or for bats, we have a we have acoustic monitors, we have few of them set up around the island, and then we record their calls. That's the easiest way to to record them.

We're planning on putting a few more or shrews, we have cameras. And then therefore, you know, we're I mean, part of what we try to do is to use technology as much as we can to get to a point where we can maximize the time of the people that we have on the island to get as much data as we possibly can.

And so if any of our listeners wanted to volunteer to look through pictures of shrews, or listen to recordings of bats, they could get in touch with you that we yeah, we would like to be a build up much bigger program. And maybe when we continue talking, we'll talk about what the volunteers can do to help us. I learned something about some ideas.

That sounds good. We'll leave that as a cliffhanger. We're here with Deni Porej to Catalina Catalina Island Conservancy, talking about bison, shrews, foxes something for everybody. We're gonna take another break. I'm Corey Bennett on United and Heal America on KABC.

We are back on Unite and Heal America. I'm Corey Bennett in for Matt Matern oday, and we're still talking with Deni Porej of the Catalina Island Conservancy. And at risk of losing our listeners who just love talking about animals. We're going to make this shift from Florida to Florida.

Danny, I understand that the island has changed significantly over time and part of the Conservancy's work has not just been to handle the animals living on it, but to deal with the plant life. Can you talk about that a little more?

Well, the exciting work of the silent men are being on the island is that we are all here fairly new new arrivals. And that this life that we see on the island is part of what is found on the on the mainland and then it gets combined in really interesting ways. I just learned from from one of our board members, that in 1996, after the El Nino, there was a there was an island have debris off the coast of San Pedro here that was probably no less than 20 miles wide and one mile deep.

When when El Nino hit in 996 all that water rushed out from the canyons and wetlands and cities and made a humongous island that may have gone up and down the coast of California. I don't know how far north is went but he he said that with his boat. He could not cross that island because it was he went 10 miles to the left and master ride. And it was a mile deep and there was no way for him to get through.

And on that island he saw entire trees, entire root balls of trees that looked like like something maybe from a horror movie with all the insects and bugs and animals on it. He saw small mammals he actually saw deer on on that island and then after that event, Santa Ana winds blew that debris to Catalina and at that time we had the debris up piled up 910 feet on our shores, so the entire ecosystems got moved over to the island.

That's that's a, that's how in part how things happen here on the island, how life gets established. On occasion, we will get an individual species coming through either air or, or a seed in the in the wind or somebody flies in, swims to the island, or, you know, these these massive events when we have a lot of species coming in at the same time. So, you know, Island is different from the from the mainland, in a sense that one species can take over, the competition is very different.

For example, a number of our plants don't really have defenses or anything that wants to eat them. The only thing that, that ate plants on the island for a longest time was just a squirrel. And so when when goats and and sheep and deer were introduced, our plants have bigger leaves, softer leaves, less chemicals, and they're like, like candy to to grazers. So what might be protected on the mainland is not here on the island, and we have to be actively protecting our plants.

So we have about all of our 65 species of plants and animals that live nowhere else. And that is one of our primary concerns is to keep them alive and to recreate conditions that they can survive here on the island. The other so we have, we have invasive species management program, we are in close collaboration with other Channel Islands. There's a consortium that keeps an eye on the worst of the of the new plants and animals that could come to the island.

And we have a very good inefficient control system. So that we try to eradicate them before they become a problem. And a problem of an invasive species is, is one that will take the majority of the island or could take majority of the island over a species that completely changed the food webs. So those are the ones we are careful about. The other aspects of our work is try to, let's say, help the island recover from overgrazing.

So that is two, we have wonderful oaks, they were trying to bring back. Perhaps over a third of them died over the last century. They're getting old, they're having trouble reproducing. So we help by protecting them. And so that's that's part of our part of our effort in the Conservation Department. This all ties down to fire frequency on the island, it ties down to having more water on the island.

So in in very short and straightforward terms. You know, having solid biodiversity on the island will help create conditions for human life on the island so that we can have water we can have soil. And we can keep this way of life on the island. So there's a there's a unequivocal link between having nature in good shape here on the island and keeping the quality of human life for now.

And for the changes that are going to happen in the future. I mean, we are experiencing drought, we are experiencing changes in weather events, and with future changes in climate, just having good solid ecosystems as a as a ground. Baseline is just a good strategy for adapting to future so we do our part.

Yeah, Californians are pretty tuned in to what's going on with climate change from having emergency drought conditions over much of the state to the fire season now being just kind of a regular feature of our years. I'm curious if you know what impact does climate change have on the people who live on Catalina on the animals and the plants that live there? Is there other similarities to what we see here on the mainland?

Yeah, I've definitely I can give you some some interesting factoids. Here we have a species called Ironwood, again, species that is found only on Catalina and another subspecies are a few northern islands. But at the time of dinosaur this species was widespread in what is now southwestern United States. And it has strong strong, strong, strong, strong, to where you can only find it now and Catalina and a couple of islands, Northern California.

So this is a species that is one of the relics of the past climate changes. And this is something we're expecting will happen in the future. And now the speed of that will be determined by human activities, but the change is coming. So we are we are at the same time are we here rifugio for some of the plants that might not be able to able to make it to the mainland. But then as the as the climate change is, you know, we'll have new species coming here.

So I think that just being an island in the Mediterranean system where we have very seasonal rain, we talk about average rain on Catalina. But there's no such thing as an average year, we have some, some years with a lot of rain. And we have some years like we have this year where we had little to no rain at all. So it's just having a very strong, robust plant and animal community is a good way of of anticipating this future change.

Because we, you know, it will go one way, and we'll go the other way. But we will have, you know, if you have a lot of species and the system is functioning, you're giving it a chance to adapt. And that's very similar to what we're trying to do in terms of adaptation to climate change in in our communities, building up resiliency, building up different ways in which we can react to problems, building up speed to react, and then just not doing things that are going to increase that risk is the key. So that's the same thing as as managing communities here.

I'm curious, you mentioned the human impact. Does the conservancy have any concerns about the level of tourism on the island? Are there any dangers that tourism kind of poses to the plants and animals there?

From from the conservation standpoint, I would say that tourism is very well managed here on the island. Mind you, I come from the Mediterranean where a lot of islands and a lot of tourist destinations have been ran into ground by massive tourism development, then has since moved on, or completely changed the nature of the communities or, or the nature of the land.

I don't see that here on Catalina. I see that, that the opportunities to experience the island are here. So you know, that's part of like I said, part of our mission. But I think that the people who get on Catalina either too hot or to hike or to both are quite respectful of the line.

And the amount of tourism that is happening here is something that I think is within the carrying capacity. So I I might do again, I come from from from a place that has been just ruined by tourism. And so what I see here is quite encouraging.

And you said that about 4,000 people who live on the island, you have a sense for how much of that is folks who kind of work and the work with with respect to tourism on the island or how much how many of it is you know, vacation rentals and all this?

This is this is an entirely tourism based economy we have little else going on here and we depend on on, on on tourism. So whether you are in the service industry, or whether you are you are retiring here or whether you are doing other kinds of business majority of people living here on the island depend on the pretty robust tourism economy, which helps us make the case for conservation again, the reason why people come to Catalina is to experience it's kind of a small island, small town quaint feel while having all the amenities.

But still being able to go out into the wilderness. I mean, the contrast of going out into the interior of Catalina and experience the coals and the hills and and the hikes and then coming back and having a nice dinner in Avalon is something that is very attractive to a number of people. And so balancing those two are, are critical for the survivorship of the island, which is why we have pretty broad support from the community for the things that we do.

Alright, we're about to take another break. Curious though. What what's your favorite thing you've ever done on the island?

A lot was yeah, hey, I have a I have a top 12 list that I can just discuss with you a buddy that would just say that, you know, I cannot find enough time to do half the things I would like to do because there's just so much.

Alright. We're gonna head into our last break, was talking to Deni Porej of the Catalina Island Conservancy. I'm Corey Bennett for Unite and Heal America. We'll be right back. All right, we're back on Unite and Heal America. Our final segment with Deni Porej of the Catalina Island Conservancy. I'm Corey Bennett filling in for Matt Matern today.

We've been talking about the plant life animal life. So many reasons to come to Catalina Island. And you know, there's really been a special arc that I think this island has has had over over the centuries and probably longer since its spring up out of the ocean and I'm curious if you could just share with our listeners a little bit about that that evolution.

Yeah, I think that whoever got to Catalina and whenever they They were pretty happy that they discovered it. The purpose the human inhabitants came to Kaleena, probably about 11,000 years ago. They found the island to be more of a Pine Island than it was now. And I think they had a wonderful life here. With the abundance of food year round, they primarily use the marine resources, a lot of abalone a lot of shells.

They also ate some dolphin and and other marine life, but with the climate the way it is here on Catalina the communities have maybe about 4,000 People live here on on, on Catalina. And they they impacted the land somewhat, they were served burned, it brought the fox. But it was I think of that life as being a very high quality life work for for 1,000s of years.

And then there was the discovery of the island by by Spanish, which was followed by an introduction of goes on, that have modified the island quite a bit. Then there was the then there was the ranching near where I lived was predominantly used for for cow and sheep grazing ranches. There was some mining happening every now and then.

But I'm just talking about major changes. And now we enter into what is more, a conservation and tourism and recreation era where the primary use of the land is actually conservation, recreation and using it for for education. So the you know, our attitude towards this island, when I say our I mean the humanities has has always been I think one of admiration, but also close interaction like many other Mediterranean systems, these types of systems are modified and shaped by people who live in it, and the choices that make so it's just now the choices that we want to want to preserve the land and open it up for others to be able to experience.

I think that one of the important things that looking into the future Catalina service in the island can offer to people living on the mainland is to experience nature and to get inspired by it. I just feel that, you know, the future decisions that we make in terms of policies or choices about how we will live, how we will use energy, what kind of sustainability practices we want to have. This is going to be determined by people living in urban centers, you know, not the 4,000 of us living here in Catalina.

That's where the voters are. And I think that our responsibility is to connect people who live in urban areas to nature, to see what the choices are. And what is it that we can do to to to make our lifestyles more sustainable. And in that sense, I think that kind of lean offers a fantastic opportunity for all the residents of Southern California to experience it that way and to engage with us in having a conversation about what kind of future we want.

I'm glad you mentioned engagement thinking about the Conservancy's priorities, you know, aside from our listeners coming over and visiting and seeing the natural beauty that the island offers, what kind of things what kind of programs is the conservancy have for individuals to do to get involved to help shape this this next era of the island?

I mentioned before some of the education programs we have for for kids here in local schools. Some of those programs are opening up for participation online. We have a naturalist training. This is how I learned about the island. When I applied for my job. It was phenomenal. Our crew from the education department they keep an online naturalist training I think it's a wonderful way to find out directly about what Catalina is, it's about natural history but also human history of the islands.

We also depended a lot in the past on volunteer help. A lot of our work requires hard hours, pulling plants or planting plants or going through photographs or taking care of the native plants we have here in nursery on Catalina we have one of the one of the largest native plant nurseries on the islands is here. So and that takes a lot of time. So in the past, we have had 1000s of hours given to us by volunteers who come and help us do all this work during the COVID time.

This has been somewhat scaled back I'm sure I would say a lot scaled back. But we are now rebuilding that engagement. We have a volunteer camps, where you can come and camp on the island with pretty good amenities. While you're helping us. And there are all kinds of things you can do. We need volunteers to help us maintain trails, like I said, to plant plants to grow plants, to water plants, to help us with education, activities and outreach, we have a program for that as well.

So this is one of the ways in which one can experience Catalina on a budget. While learning a lot and helping us achieve our mission. We we highly depend on this. And I encourage your daughters to check out the website Kaleena Conservancy, and to sign up for the volunteer program. Most of the motor, most of the volunteers come over for just one day, or you have a lot of volunteers who actually spend significant chunks of time.

Yeah, we have, we have all kinds. We have people who come for for a while, like I say they stay in the volunteer camps, and they they volunteer at the nursery or the or the Invasive Species Program or whatnot, for weeks and weeks. Getting to Catalina is not that easy.

But we do have some programs to do that. And then we offer these volunteers program for people living with that. So there are definitely ways for for your listeners to volunteer at different things in different timescales.

And for those who can't make it over to Catalina Island, or volunteer, you know, what kind of policy priorities should we be thinking about in California and Sacramento, that, you know, would would help preserve the island?

Well, I think that they're there, I mean, we are a reflection of what is happening out on the on the mainland, and I think that Californians are, are starting to address some of those key issues, issues of sustainability, meaning this wise use of our natural resources and trying to live within the confines of what we have. I know that if everybody was to live the lifestyle that is live in California, I think we would need I think the number is about seven or eight planets to support that.

So everybody can help by kind of making wise choices about the resources that we use on a daily basis that helps us do I think that you know, putting a high priority on keeping nature around us that is functional, and that can help support the services on which we depend on, which is clean air, clean water. But also opportunities to engage on a more, let's say spiritual level or human level with nature and build a relationship with it.

Because it's just going to be very hard to convince people to support nature conservation or, or make a trade off with a land of preserving it visa vie developing, if majority of people have no relationship to that, I think it's very important to do to do that. And then we have some some of the, you know, more smaller scale issues that pertain here to Kaeleen. And that is fire management and management of beer, etc, etc. But I think that your listeners on the mainland, just, you know, being a good steward of the of this.

Really, I've been all over the world and people living here in California, so lucky. It's just phenomenal, the kind of land that is here, the ocean, the land and the quality of life that California has could have just said, Let's be wise about it and not jeopardize the quality of life by making, you know, just unwise decisions regarding how much we consume. Let's not get too greedy, you know, I mean that humans will not destroy Earth, humans will just destroy our, our position at the top of the food chain, you know, Earth will survive without us.

So I think there's just just just understanding that we now have the power to to determine the future of life on Earth. And that, you know, we just want to keep our quality of life. So let's be wise about it as being good stewards. Let's not push it too much. And then let's secure that you know, our kids can just have enjoyed this planet as much as as we did.

Well, Deni Porej. You're an excellent advocate for this island and for the conservancy. I really appreciate you taking the time today. I want to make sure that our listeners know how to connect with you and the work that the Conservancy is doing. So tell tell them where to go.

Well, they can they can go to the catalinaconservancy.org It's a website with a plethora of information they can become our members. It's it's a wonderful way to help us to contribute a little bit financially but also you know, having had remembers gives us an encouragement to know that there are people out there who care and so that's that's every membership is a signal that there's somebody out there to whom we should hold ourselves accountable.

So that's a wonderful way to help us and like I said, the natural trainings that our listeners can follow on the website. And then when they come here there are these wonderful tourists to experience the island but that's then level two. You know once they get here I'm sure that most of the people who come here once they come again and they they become this part of this community wanting to help us protect them.

I cannot wait to visit and I encourage all the listeners to check out the Catalina Island Conservancy.

And give me a call when you before you visit let me know we will give you a personal tour if you show up to pick up exactly the cell phone on our website.

Thank you everyone for tuning in today. Thank you Deni for your time and for the work that you do. I'm Corey Bennett filling in for Matt Matern today on Unite and Heal America, on KABC. Thank you.