Unknown Speaker 0:00

This is a Sound Rebel podcast. Discover more of our shows at soundrebel.co.uk.

Sharon Hartley 0:21

Welcome to Over the Influence podcast, where we are talking all things alcohol-free. You're listening to me, Sharon Hartley. I am 46 years old from Lancashire in the Northwest of England, mum to two teenagers one’s 19 and one’s 16 and an in between ager who's just turned 12. My beautiful co-host, who will be joining us very, very shortly is Freddie. Freddie will fill us in about who he is and what he does in just a bit. We've got a guest far more interesting than Freddie today. He won't mind me saying that. I'd love to introduce the brilliant Sally Wilkinson. Hello, Sally.

Sally Wilkinson 0:57

Hello. Just I don't want Freddie coming out and interrupting me, you know, he’ll just have to stay silent.

Sharon Hartley 1:06

Sally, just introduce yourself, to us and to the listener, tell us who you are, where you're from, and a little bit about what you do.

Sally Wilkinson 1:14

Well, I feel I should follow your lead. Well, I'm Sally Wilkinson. I'm 50 years old with three children. And yeah, I've been married for 27 years to Simon. So and yeah, I've run a online well retreat, a business health and fitness retreat business. And I also have an online community as well. And just because of the recent events, I've done the last two virtually, which has been brilliant. So I just love inspiring people to motivate themselves to make their own change. And yeah, helping women over 40 Really feel crap about themselves to make them realise that I never ever want them leaving this earth without realising just how amazing they can feel amazing. And then it's just incredible once they realise it's just unreal, what can happen.

Sharon Hartley 2:05

So Sally hold that thought, which is really interesting, that's where you are today. And I love that. Take us back about 1000 days, is it now over 1000 days?

Sally Wilkinson 2:14

I thought you're gonna say 1000 years then, I thought steady on love. I’ll just check my app. It will tell me how many days have gone. Because people say do you count the days and I say ‘do I hell!’. Oh, it’s doing the count back. 1226 days.

Sharon Hartley 2:32

Okay, so that is 1226 days, since you last had a drink, take us back Sally, to a time before then and just explain what you were like as a drinker.

Sally Wilkinson 2:43

And I've used to drink massively, and then it just sort of started to creep up. I just used to drink water at home then just drink when I went out. And then that's sort of started to change a bit. But when it started to get bad was when we were going through huge financial issues just after the recession hit. And then it just continued. We had a property portfolio that were built not for a pension fund, and we ended up losing it all after the recession. And it was just awful. Bailiffs at the house… we nearly lost the house, just everything and I just started drinking more. I was always a social drinker. But nothing major. You know, that used to make me question myself. But little things start to happen, when you realise that it is becoming a bit of an issue. And there's no right or wrong, you know, I'm not judging anybody, even myself, you know, it's just it is what it is.

With all the stress that was going on. I just used to drink to mask it really. Because then I didn't have to face it. And every night five, six o'clock, I'd start the Prosecco. I mean, I always did like to drink. I played rugby for 16 years and I could down a pint, probably one of the best in the team when I got a man of the match and it was a great thing. 6.5 seconds. Brilliant. That's the sort of drinking you know when you're out and that sort of goes with sports, and I didn't mind that. The way my drinking turned was definitely as a self-medication. And I was just getting concerned. And if in the daytime, I'd be feeling really stressed. Even if I gave myself permission at 11 or 12 o'clock to have a drink tonight. I'd automatically be lifted, my mood, my stress would disappear a little bit because I knew I was going to rely on the crutch of alcohol. And I wouldn’t get hammered every night. Don't get me wrong. I was drinking probably five nights a week. Sometimes six, very rarely seven because I'd used Monday as that day I didn’t drink. But it was an effort not to drink on a Monday, it was a hard choice. And then on Tuesday I’d catch myself saying oh, I’ll have a drink tonight. I've not had a drink since the weekend. And it was only Tuesday.

Sharon Hartley 4:46

It’s like listening to myself. I did the same as you. Honestly, I would drink every day with the occasional Monday off and think I’m doing really well, I haven't drunk last night and like you say the same old cycle starts again on that Tuesday, doesn't it?

Sally Wilkinson 5:02

Oh, it does. And I think with everything that was going on around us, it was just awful. And then unfortunately, I was declared bankrupt three years ago. And just the shame of it, the fear of feeling of failure, when things just haven't gone how we hope. And I did, I just started drinking, but I was still wanting my health and fitness at all spinning, I still run the health retreats, I became really depressed. I really suffered badly with depression. And I drank more, but not once did I think, to stop drinking, when I was depressed.

Sharon Hartley 5:37

I was just going to ask you that question, Sally, did you never make the link between alcohol and depression, and then of course, affecting your whole mental health?

Sally Wilkinson 5:45

This might be very controversial, but to this day, I'm still really grateful for alcohol around that time, because I really do feel, and I still feel, that it helped me, because I didn’t know any different at that time. I wouldn't drive anywhere, it was always Simon. And if we wanted to, if he wanted to drink would get a taxi, there was never any taking it in turns.

Sally Wilkinson 6:13

I do have corporate friends who don't drink much. And, you know, I was never one of those friends. I was the first to arrive and the last to leave – talking to anybody at the end, even if, you know, I've not struck a chord at the beginning, anybody will do at the end of a party.

And it was that sort of relationship I was getting with alcohol. So I wasn't just a sort of bare minimum drinker And now, but when depression hit, I just took myself to bed really for about six months, obviously, not all the time. Because I still got up and taught my classes, I actually did take three, four months off my spinning classes, because it became so difficult to go in. Yet the three day retreats really helped because I was starting to become honest about it. And that's when I started to recover from a depression is when I came out on the Facebook page and said that I've had depression and nobody had a clue. And it was just awful. And I was drinking most nights to alleviate it really, because it does alleviate it temporarily. Obviously, it doesn't really. But I just felt like it did and that was good enough for me. You know, you'll do anything not to feel quite as bad. And I think that last straw came when my daughter used to come into the room in the morning, she was probably 12 at the time and asked me to do her hair and I'd swing out of bed and put her hair up. And then she'd go off to school and get the bus at half seven and I’d just go back to sleep.

And it sounds ridiculous. Everything we'd been through with the bailiffs the bankruptcy, the losing of the properties, the shame of all that, what was the final straw that I needed to take action on drinking this time was I got up one day at about half one I went downstairs, and someone had made some crumbs with a toast in the morning, I got the cloth off the sink. And it was all soggy. And I went to wipe up the crumbs you know, I've picked up this soggy cloth. And I just couldn't face it. And I just chucked it back down and went back to bed. And I just thought, oh, I can't cope with a soggy cloth. And then all I did during that day was get up and drink every evening. And some days drinking was brilliant, or what I perceived to be brilliant at the time. You know, I’d go out, see my friends, chat on the phone. And then other days it's a party for one on the sofa, you know till one in the morning because you don't want the next day to come. And I never really used to get hangovers.

And I remember seeing that line – don't ever leave this earth without ever experiencing just how amazing you can feel. And so, to get me out of a depression, I went to the doctors, and I knew they just want to put me on antidepressants. And I’ll never forget this, he asked me how many are you drinking? I said probably a couple a night. He said, well, that's not too bad. I said bottles. He went oh my goodness. You know, he says that has to stop now. But you know as well as I do, Sharon that I went out and just drank again that night. And it was only to get out of depression.

I signed up to an Ironman, never done a triathlon before, not even a short one. And four months later, I crossed Bolton nine month finishing line officially last at 17 hours, 12 minutes, but my goal was to get me out of bed. And I thought this is the first time I thought right I'm going to stop drinking. I'm going to not drink through training. And I managed it. I didn't drink for the three days before the race. That’s all. For all my other training, when I was doing 100 miles on the bike, I’d come home and have a Magnum and a drink because I’d think oh, haven’t I done well. I couldn’t believe I’d done it eve whilst I was drinking. And I still didn't consider to stop drinking and it was just little things…

I used to work on a fitness retreat abroad in Turkey before I started my own. I remember going to the airport and you know the duty-free and you get to the airport lounge, I’d get anxious because I'm going on my own without family, going to work two weeks, which I loved. And so I'd have a few wines and I couldn't stand the thought of getting on the plane. What if there’s not a trolley servce? What if there's no drink on the plane? So, I'm just admitting this to be honest. And so I went to duty free and got a bottle of wine and then I went to boots and got a meal deal and I had to get Appletizer, I don’t even like it but it had to be a green bottle that you couldn't see through, so I went to the loo and I sat on the loo and poured the drink down the loo and I filled it with wine and as I was doing it I just thought… What are you doing? This just is not acceptable anymore.

It wasn’t just one day I thought I’m sick of this and want to stop drinking. It probably went on for 18 months… little nuances like that, little nuances of going off to the SPAR shop on a Thursday night and getting off Prosecco and thinking ‘what if one’s not enough? I should get two.’ I always used to open a second one more often than not, and the first time you open a bottle of Prosecco at six o'clock it's all happy clappy and glug glug and you feel sort of fake happy, but then when you go and open the second one, your whole body language is different and you’re hating yourself.

Little things like you know when you Strictly Come Dancing was on. I'd start watching it again on Sunday because I couldn't remember that I had watched it the night before. I'd watch it again. When you go out for a meal in a restaurant. The anxiety you feel when the waitress gives you menus and then walks off without taking drinks order. Oh no, it was the worst. And then you're looking around the restaurant as you're only halfway through your glass of wine panicking thinking can I get her eye? This went on for about 18 months, all these little things, and it was just getting really bad with the depression and I thought I've just had enough and that panic of what I was doing to my body because I you know I was 46 and you know starting to perimenopause, probably feeling emotional. I just thought I don't want this I just don't want to be this knobhead anymore. I just can't stand it anymore. I don't like this. And I wanted to know what it felt like not to drink because it had been that long.

Sharon Hartley 12:51

Well, it's nice to see that Freddie's joined us. Where have you been Freddie?

Freddie Bennett 12:55

Here I am, Shazza. Well, you know what good things come to those who wait and because I knew I had two very glamorous ladies in yourself on the podcast today, I've just been in the shower, spraying the Old Spice and doing my hair. And now I'm finally with you.

Sharon Hartley 13:10

But it was worth the wait Sal, wasn't it? I mean, just look at it.

Sally Wilkinson 13:13

Well, I’m impressed. I'm impressed that so you're looking very very clean and shiny.

Freddie Bennett 13:18

Well, I try to be. Slipper when wet.

Sharon Hartley 13:23

Listen, I'm gonna take charge of this, I'm gonna move swiftly on because it's going on a very different path. So, you've just been talking to us there about your past drinking, the Sally Wilkinson in the drinking days. I want to bring it forward to the last time you were sloshed on your sofa. This isn't a secret, I’ve seen that pity party for one, because you shared it on your social media and it was because of stumbling across you literally, that's what inspired me to take my alcohol-free journey. Just take us to that night on the sofa talking to a camera on your own, when the whole of the family was in bed, sloshed with that glass of wine in your hand. What changed for you that night?

Sally Wilkinson 14:01

Well I had about 18 months leading up to that and thinking I need to do something, and we'd been out on boxing night, that was the 23rd of January 2017, and on boxing night, we're in London my son was working at the pub with his girlfriend's family. And they’d joined one year no beer and were saying Sally, come and join, you know it’s a 30-Day Challenge. Not a chance! And there I was, with my big glass of wine. No intention of doing it. I felt horrendous the day after, and you know, didn't know you couldn't have alcohol on the tube in London. I just walked on bold as brass with my wine, how you do being from up north. And I just thought, it just got into my head, and it tied in with how I'd been feeling for the last 18 months.

I checked it out and I thought oh no, like other people do, said well I can’t start yet, because it’s Jo’s 18th on the you know on the 17th of January. So I want to get hammered on that because all these mates are coming around. So do you know what I think I might start. And this is why I didn't blip, because all my work, it’s a bit like having a child, all the work that I've done, the Braxton Hicks the contractions that don't know you're having a having, I'd done all that in the 18 months previous, you know, I'd considered it. So, I just made a decision to do 30 days to be fair, not 1300. And I just thought, right, I'm going to start this night. And I remember thinking this is going to be the last time I have a drink. And I pushed another two days out of it. I felt I wasn't quite ready, I thought come on, cuz it's a big thing. It really is. And I just knew it was gonna be the last time for 30 days, and I was going to use this one year no beer and this social group. And I sat and you know, sometimes when you drink the wine, it really you can feel the acidic-ness of it, and it gets you right here sometimes, and it wasn't even red. And I remember thinking, right, I'm going to record it. And I've got quite a decent following on Facebook, engage with them a lot. And I thought should post it and I watched this video and it made me cry. Because the sadness behind my eyes, the sheer patheticness of it, the the hopelessness of it, I still watch it now. And it really moves me. And I just look awful. And I know the pain that had been feeling. And I thought sod it, I'm going to post it. And it is the best thing I ever did, because it kept me accountable. But so many people said, oh my God, they felt the same and, you know, good on you.

And I did 30 days and then I went to 90 because I made a decision. And once you make the decision, that's all it takes, it truly is that straightforward. You just need to make the decision. And so that was it. I was off, and then obviously got to day 90, and it was well, will I or won’t I? It was our silver wedding. And the one great piece of advice I would give. And this is what really does my head in, when people say you can't afford the membership, when it's like five quid a month, I thought well, what were you spending a week on all your alcohol before, you know, because you were buying it. And I don't mean to be disrespectful. But one thing I did, I saved the money. I saved 50 quid a week, and I'm still saving 50 pound a week. And you know what, that's conservative, and shameful to admit. But it paid for our silver wedding anniversary trip to Italy, we've had furniture, we've had all sorts with this alcohol-free money that would have just gone down my neck. And that's been a real incentive.

But when I was in Italy, on our little sober wedding, it was literally day 90. And we're on a balcony in Lake Como, got to the hotel, and there was some free champagne in the room. And I just thought, because I just didn't know what I was doing. I didn't think I was going to go for 365. And it was there. I thought, we could have it tomorrow. And I just didn't want it. I did, but I didn't want it enough. So I was really pissed off that I didn't want to. I thought I'd be like back on back on it straightaway. And so we decided that we did a video again. And me and Simon just said sod it, I've not learned enough. I've not learned enough about myself in the process. I want to give myself that gift of time. And this is what I say to everybody, whether they're trying to give up sugar, trying to not take the phone to bed, not trying to do alcohol. How the hell do you know what it's gonna feel like unless you give yourself that gift of time of trying it. And so I thought, right, let's say I did a year. And I just knew I wouldn't drink a drink in that 12-month period. And you get so much more learning in that year rather than just the 30 days – it isn't enough to really experience what it feels like. And you learn more on your down days than you do on your up ones.

Freddie Bennett 19:09

I don't know where to start. That's such an amazing story. I mean, firstly, I totally know what you mean with the whole like giving birth and contractions thing because like that, that sounds like it must hurt a little bit. But I think there's a phrase that I use – a Freddie phrase. And it's my mess is my message, and I think that's so powerful what you said about sharing that video because that must be hard to watch. And I know we've all been there, where there's videos of us or you know, photos of us looking a little bit worse for where should we say, and it's always a natural reaction to try and hide them away and be thinking oh, I don't want people to see me in that state. But I think by actually embracing it and say yeah, this was me. This was the state I was in. Look at my eyes and all of that. It's such a powerful message to not only remind yourself, but to show others that you can be there and just so sick of it, but you could also make these amazing changes that you have done.

Sally Wilkinson 20:07

I think in retrospect, it was more powerful than me being pissed up at a party. You know, it was that because I don't particularly look drunk, but you could tell, there was just so much sadness there.

Sharon Hartley 20:19

I've seen it, you just look really, really sad and miserable. And your face was so red, and your eyes were just droopy. And look at you now, the brightness in your face just speaks volumes.

Sally Wilkinson 20:32

I mean, it is madness, really. And I sometimes want the money back from one year no beer, because I never signed up for 1226 days, I just wanted to do 30 and then go back to my normal, fake happiness that I’d created. You know, and when people say, I wish you had your motivation. I wish I had your willpower. I was born with two arms and two legs and people think had an elephant trunk’s worth of willpower stuck out of my head. You know, we've all got it. People just need to find it. Everybody's got it. Everybody's got the gift of being able to do whatever they want. They truly have. You've just got to be inspired. And I believe you can change anything really.

Sharon Hartley 21:27

So can I just pick up on something you said earlier about doing it full on when you decide to go alcohol-free? If you really, really do want to do it alcohol free? You've got to remove those thoughts. Haven't you? Those thoughts like, I'll just treat myself to a glass of Prosecco. I've got to 90 days I might have a drink. You've got to… I love the term ‘don't do anything half assed’, and you've just got to check yourself in commit, make that decision and go for it.

Sally Wilkinson 21:52

Yeah, it's like all the pussyfooting around about the blips and the moderation and stuff. side When I committed myself to do the year, I was gonna do a year's challenge. So if I had chosen to have a drink, I've failed my challenge. Simple as that. No question. No grey area, I failed my challenge. If I only drunk like Ben was planning on drinking, if I don't drink 20 days out of the year, that's a huge success. Because instead of drinking 300, I've only drunk 20, so of course it's a success. But that's not the challenge I set myself. I set a challenge to not drink, it's a non-drinking challenge. And when I had that accidental gin and tonic eight months in in Turkey with my mom, because they gave me a gin and tonic instead of atomic wars. We've been going to this bar every night, we're in a rush and I downed it, nearly over half of it. I cried to my mum. She said, Sally, calm down. You don't understand Mum, I want to do a year, one year no beer, not a year one, you know, be apart from that gin and tonic had in Turkey. And I was so emotional run out of the bar. I was crying. But all it did was serve to how important it was to me.

It's all these little things that happen. And on that very same night, I got over myself, and went for a meal. And this is the sort of thing to think about. Rather than looking for reasons not to do something, I look for stuff that confirms I’ve made the right decision. It’s a very different way of looking at it.

And in Turkey, that night, we were walking up the fake stalls. And there was this woman walking up with her husband and a friend. And she must have been about my age and she had a white linen dress on, and she was gone. She chucked herself on the tables and was having a right good time and I thought, that was me. So she thought she was brilliant. And anyways, we're waiting for a taxi and as we were and you saw her go. She went from ‘woo’ to swaying backwards and forwards. And I thought I don't want to be that woman in white feeling shite. I just don't want that in my life.

Of course I miss it when I'm sat with my mum and I'm on tonic water. Of course I miss the anticipation of having a drink and miss sometimes going that raucous. I feel sometimes like I’ve had a limb amputated because I don’t recognise myself and I miss all those things. Sometimes I miss it desperately, but I've never missed it enough to go and have a drink you know to start drinking again should I say because if I'd really wanted to do it, there's nothing stopping me, and that is true freedom and true choice but I'm not like some other people who say they'll never drink again. I've no idea! I'll never say never. I sometimes envy the people who go I’ll never drink again. I envy the people who've gone back to it for six weeks and hated it and now they know for sure they never want to do it again. But we're all different.

Freddie Bennett 25:52

I just want to pick up on something you said Sally. I don’t know if this resonates with you, but I think certainly that mindset and how you perceive going alcohol-free, I think a lot of people out there they think of it like a battle like it's a battle of how much willpower have you got. Like I really want that drink but I'm not going to have that drink and every day it's do I drink do I not drink and I tried that 100 times and I always failed because it was always ‘there's this thing that I really want but I'm not going to let myself have it’ and then it was only when I started to think that no I want that life that sober life more than I want this pissed up depressed upset falling over life. That's when the shift started to happen as you say it's you start to think of all the benefits or the positive things and all the things you gain not all the stuff that you necessarily lose.

Sally Wilkinson 26:40

The thing is with that though, a lot of people don't know what the sober life’s like. They’re not willing to go through that what they perceive as being uncomfortable without the alcohol and that's what you have to go through and you've got to accept it. I did a video nearly every day of one year no beer. I just made yourself accountable a bit like you did with your posts Shazza, and that's how I chose to do it. And some days I was on top of mountains, going oh alcohol-free life is amazing! Next day I could be in a hedge with snot running down to my chin, hating it. You know, because that's what it was like. I remember our first holiday going down to Cornwall, and we got there in the morning. And then it was a beautiful afternoon there was two ladies drinking Rose in Padstow harbour, Oh, I hated it. I just was so pissed off. I went to bed early. I thought this is awful. Awful.

By the next day, I just got over myself with a shedload of ice cream. But that's where the learning is. And it's if you don't give in. And it really is a true choice. And that goes for anything, not just alcohol, it could be for giving up sugar, it could be any of those things. You’ve got to want to do it for the right reason and not use some willpower for 12 months, you're just going to be hell. How on earth is that going to work?

I listened to Drew's podcast this morning. There you go. Shazza wasn't he brilliant and I listened to that. And then another way I've been quite different, you know to others and others will be like me, is that I chose not to be secretive about it. I don't I don't believe in in self-drinking and having a tonic water pretending it's a gin and tonic. I was out and proud of doing my alcohol-free journey. Journey. I can't believe I've just said that. So you know, and I just wanted to be honest from the beginning. And so I always was and so I just told everybody. Doing a challenge takes that shame away. But what keeps me going even now is the amount of people you accidentally inspired just by being yourself, just by you doing you. And I got that from a guy whose post I saw. I must have been on day 28 hating it, by first month was the rugby six nations and let me tell you now being a big rugby fan. Having to watch your first rugby match drinking peppermint bloody tea was shit. I hated it. But I remember seeing this man on the Facebook page, a really, really attractive bloke, you know, and he was probably about my age and he was in Colorado and snowy mountains. And he had this estate car with a mountain bike on the back. And yeah, he was saying I can’t believe I’ve done a year and I’ve moved State and I'm doing all this… I never thought I'd be living this sort of life, and he looked so fresh. And I just thought, Is it really possible? Is it really possible?

And you know what kept me going? I wanted to see! I sometimes wanted a drink... It's bloody hard sometimes. But every time I wanted it, I reminded myself that I wanted to experience. Every time I heard the creeping voice trying to make me drink, I thought, what do I want more? Do I want to experience what that man feels like? Or do I want to go back to that sad woman, creating fake happiness, being argumentative, just being all round our soul and not getting the work done. Because the work never used to get done after I'd finished a retreat. I'd get pissed. And then I'll start working on Wednesday. Whereas now… that's why the business has grown so much just because I've not been drinking.

Sharon Hartley 31:14

One thing that I think is really interesting that you've talked about and Freddie I'm sure you'll agree with me here, is none of us set out to become completely alcohol-free. Sally, you set out to do 30 days I set out to do 90 Freddy set out to do 90 Is that right?

Freddie Bennett 34:37

Yeah. 90 for me to start with.

Sharon Hartley 34:40

Yeah, but until you try it and until you give yourself that chance, as you said so you simply don't know. So when it is crap in the beginning and those first few weeks and even the first you know few months and you think you know, man, this is difficult. If you just keep going there's a reason… us three are all still at it.

Sally Wilkinson 35:03

You know, what keeps me from going back is that (and it's taken me a long time to admit this) is that I am actually really proud of myself. That's what stops me going back – I'm proud to not drink. You know, when you fill that form in and you go, no, I don't drink.

Sharon Hartley 35:18

I'm still waiting. I really want to go to the doctor’s or the dentist, and I've never done it. Yeah.

Sally Wilkinson 35:23

But you do still get it. I still do have dreadful days and because I work a lot on my own, I do get a lot of loneliness. You know, I do suffer from loneliness and isolation and it’s self-inflicted almost because I work on my own a lot. And I found that hard to deal with depression really. And quite often, I do think of drinking, and think that I perhaps wouldn't feel as lonely. Because I've been going out more… I’d want to do that; a lot of fake stuff that I did, like orchestrate nights out and meals out just so I could have a drink, you know, that didn't look like was just being sad at home. But even being in lockdown the first week or two of that I questioned it. You know, and I thought, thank God, I'm not drinking in lockdown. Thank God, I'm not drinking in lockdown, because that would had been horrific.

And even when we had that beautiful weather a couple of months ago, and you know, which was quite unexpected, they were having a barbecue in the garden over the back, and I could hear them, and it was on a Sunday afternoon. It really affected me it really triggered me. I just thought, I'm sick of this alcohol-free shit. I really am, I'm sick of it. I just want to go back, I just want to have a drink. I just want to get taste, I just want to, I just want to, I just want to!. But the thing is, again, it passes. It always passes and people think you're a sad person sometimes for not drinking, but believe me, I could drink, and I could drink every night if I wanted to. But I'm choosing genuinely choosing not to. I still love having those little awakenings where you do really miss it. You know, just because it passes and you wake up in the morning, you just think, I’m still alcohol-free.

Freddie Bennett 37:07

Yeah, that feeling is amazing. Yeah. It’s like you say Sally, we always think about the opposite. Before lockdown. It was the, you know, the trigger moments is turning up at the party or turning up at the bar or the restaurant and thinking, Ah, you know, I'm going to have to say I don't drink, but what's just as challenging is those moments on your own when you do feel lonely. I've certainly had that thought that no one would know, I could have a drink now in the house on my own and absolutely no one would know, I would have to tell Shazza, wouldn't have to tell Ben, would have to tell anyone. I could just quietly just do this for me. And just get that feeling and then just carry on. But the point is that you would know, and everything that you've worked towards and everything, that life that you’ve dreamed of, you worry that it was that you were putting at risk or that it wouldn't be there anymore.

Sally Wilkinson 37:58

I always thought my first drink would be a massive big thing. It'd be in the front. And if you're gonna have a drink, let me know and we'll come round or we'll go out and I thought it'd be an event. And, you know, unfortunately, my dad passed away last year, and I just thought and this is a really weird thing when he died, I just thought I wonder if I’ll drink at his funeral. How awful thinking that, your dad's just died, but only people like you will understand. Other friends perhaps will not understand that because they've not been drinkers like I was. And I've been through fiftieth's, you know, children's birthdays, my dad's funeral, and all these events where I haven't drunk. And I thought it'd be a big thing.

My daughter Nancy, she said oh I’m sad you won’t drink on my 18th next year. And so, at the time, I was thinking I might have some champagne? I don't know… I never say never. And it was her birthday just last week. And because it's in lockdown, she was dreading it; she was supposed to be having a big party and a driving lesson. And so I did this thing for her, we’d got up and put balloons everywhere. Massive. It just locked ace. I did her an itinerary of what was happening for the day, and one of them was an hour and a half with the neighbours. You know social distancing and everything. It was lovely. I said and join us for a glass of Prosecco. Well, being a hostess with the mostess, I thought I best provide the prosecco and I just had a seedlip and tonic, and it's fine. I've got it in the glass and I'm quite happy. You know, if I ever feel like I really want one, I’ll have one. But do you miss your old self?

Sharon Hartley 39:41

Erm, God, I miss part of it. I miss part of the social side of it. And but no, not enough. And me and Freddie, every time we do an episode, we always seem to come back to this song. This is me. I really do like me now. And now I've stripped away all the shit, stripped away all the alcohol, this is what's left and it is a ball! I've never had as much genuine laughter, I've met some new friends, social circles have grown, sober socials. Had you told me that two years ago, I'd have laughed in your face and poured another wine – I’d have scoffed at it. I’m not doing a sober social with these boring farts. It's been life changing. And it's been so much fun. So no, as the aspects I miss, but in the grand scheme of things, not really no.

Sally Wilkinson 40:35

Yeah. And I think that's something that I need to do more on really, is just getting out a bit more. And that's the danger when you work for yourself at home, and you stop drinking, so you sort of stop everything. And then when you do have the chance to go out, you don't really want to do it. And that's really nothing to do with the drinking. It's just your mindset. And now I've said this to you Shazza and we actually had a couple little sober sessions. And they were brilliant. Yeah. And it's something I'm certainly going to do more, you know, just locally, not big events or anything. Just yeah, sober sessions and invite drinkers along, but not to drink. Just so they can experience it. Because I know I've been in situations on business where they've been non-drinking events, and I would have hated those I would have been itching. But I loved it, because everybody else wasn't drinking. And one night, they had such a good night. And this lady, two ladies actually just said, I can't believe I’ve had such a laugh without alcohol. And sadly, I think it's because none of us were drinking. If we'd have all been drinking, and they hadn't, they'd have hated it. But because none of us were drinking. That's the difference. And I want to start creating more of that environment. But just accepting that people drink as well, like I never judge anybody. People assume you judge them, don't they, when you stop drinking, they think you’re looking at them like they’re knobheads and you’re not. Drink away, you know, and I laugh when I see myself in them. And when people talk at you with their eyes looking in different directions, telling you how much they love you and they don’t even know you. It’s funny.

Sharon Hartley 42:05

We've been there and done that, Sal, we've been there and done that 1000 times myself and Freddie.

Sally, what's the one piece of advice you would give to somebody who thinks I can't do it, but I want to do what they're doing?

Sally Wilkinson 42:30

Well, you don't want it. That sounds really harsh, but you've got to want it enough. And if you're not doing it, then you don't want it enough. You know, obviously, I'm talking to people who drank like I did, and, and, you know, so I don't mean to be glib, but you've got to want it. And when you decide you want it, there's the only person that can make it work is you. You can get inspiration from all these non-drinking communities. You can you know, you can do your fitness, you can do everything, but the only person really going to make the change is you. And the thing that I would say to them, is, don't deny yourself that opportunity to experience what it's like because you're going to spend the rest of your life wondering, I wonder what it would be like… you don't have to wonder it doesn't cost anything, it's gonna save you money. You know, if you are truly happy drinking, then fill your boots, crack on. But if you're like I was, just think, come on, because you can do it. You absolutely can.

Freddie Bennett 43:39

I have a question for both of you – Sally and Shazza? It sounds a bit weird. But do you ever get scared sometimes, because you see all the success that you've got now and all the amazing things you've both achieved since you’ve been alcohol-free, Do you ever get scared and think if only life had worked out differently? And I'd got to seven days or 30 days that I'd said ah you know what, I'm just gonna go back to the old me then you wouldn't have all of this right now. And you ever just think like, shit, you're at that crossroads, and you took that road, but you could have easily taken the other road then you wouldn't have this now. Do you ever think about that at all?

Sally Wilkinson 44:17

Never. No, absolutely not. Because I didn't take that road, so all I'm doing is reliving a crap movie that doesn't even exist. So no, I really believe that it’s better to regret the things you do than the things you don't. I would rather give up alcohol and bloody hate it, and think sod that, I'm not doing that again. But at least I know I've tried. So I'm not sat there, thinking I wish I wasn't drinking, because I tried it and it was crap. I didn't like it. But I did like it surprisingly, not all the time and even now sometimes I don't like it. But it's not enough to go back for the all the huge benefits that I've had. Whenever I see somebody going on about alcohol-free life, I think oo, I’m in that little group. Yeah. I can't believe I don't drink.

Sharon Hartley 45:06

And the same as you Sal. I sometimes look at myself and I go, I can't believe I'm still doing this. I can't believe I made that decision. I can't believe the way my life is going now because some brilliant things have happened. Some shit has happened. Don't get me wrong, in the last 12 months. But for the most part, everything is so much better. My only regret Freddie in answer your question is at the age of 46. Why I left it so late to give myself that chance. In many ways, you know, I envy you for it. You're far, far, far younger than I am.

Freddie Bennett 45:38

I thought you were both about my age.

Sharon Hartley 45:40

Yeah I’ll take that, thanks.

Sally Wilkinson 45:43

Shaz you need to stop thinking like that. Because Freddie's Freddie and you're you, and you're 46 and you've done it, so no amount of thinking you wish you'd done it earlier makes sense. I don’t get that sentence. I wish I’d started early, because you didn’t. And you can't change it. So it's just a complete, you know. Be proud of yourself. I know you are, but I don't even want you taking a little bit of that away by saying you wish you'd started sooner.

Sharon Hartley 46:07

I shall consider myself bollocked and I shall never mention it ever again.

Sally Wilkinson 46:12

But it's a tremendous, tremendous achievement, you know, and we don't know what's going to happen. We could have this podcast in six months time, and two of us could be pissheads again. So I'm not putting any judgement on anything. I'm not putting any hope or expectations. And that's the thing when you have expectations, if they're not met, that's when the shit starts to happen.

Sharon Hartley 46:35

Sally, it’s been brilliant. First of all, hearing your story and hearing about your community and I'm really proud to say that I've done one of your retreats. It was brilliant. I thought he was gonna be one of the worst things I've ever done. And in many ways, it was but it was also brilliant. I loved every single minute it was so inspiring. So fantastic. What a great community you inspire. Just tell us where we can find some more information about what you do Sal.

Sally Wilkinson 47:00

Well the easiest place is the website, thesallywilkinson.com. And my Instagram’s, @thesallywilkinson and I do a lot of stories on there, which can be quite entertaining. And then the Facebook is Get over yourself and that's where all the free fitness is. So yeah, but you can find all the social links on the website thesallywilkinson.com and don't be shocked because I had a few professional pictures done on there.

Sharon Hartley 47:38

I’ll tell you what, you scrub up quite nicely, don't you Sally?

Sally Wilkinson 47:41

And the lady said she goes well we'll get them back because we’ve got to touch them all up now and I said what for? She goes because we always do it. I said ‘well I don’t want you to do mine’. She was shocked, she couldn’t believe it. She said they could take a few of my wrinkles out. I said I don’t want that, this is me.

Sharon Hartley 47:58

Sal, you've said it again. That song’s there again. Whoa, go on Freddie.

Sally Wilkinson 48:04

So when you go on my website – that really is me – they’re all my wrinkles.

Sharon Hartley 48:15

Thanks Sal. You're a star.

Freddie Bennett 48:17

Thank you so much to Sally for that amazing episode. And I can't believe that the next episode that is coming up is actually episode 10. Who would have thought it? We have got double figures and we are at 10 episodes. Shazza how can people find out more about us?

Sharon Hartley 48:32

Fantastic. 10 episodes. I'm so excited about this, you can find us on Instagram @alcoholfreepod. We're also on Twitter at the same name, @alcoholfreepod again. On Facebook, just search for Over the Influence. If you want to find us online, go to soundrebel.co.uk/overtheinfluence and if you want to contact us privately, we do have an email address overtheinfluence@sound rebel.co.uk.