Unknown Speaker 0:00

This is a Sound Rebel podcast. Discover more of our shows at soundrebel.co.uk.

Sharon Hartley 0:21

Welcome to another episode of Over the Influence, you're listening to me Sharon ‘Shazza’ Hartley. I'm 46 years old, live in Lancashire in the northwest of England, married to Paul and currently surviving lockdown with three children at home two teenagers and a 12-year-old. I'm joined by Freddie as always.

Freddie Bennett 0:41

Hello, I am Freddie otherwise known as Freddie Bennett. Also enjoying lockdown in Liverpool with my family and we are trying not to kill each other, but the most important thing is that we are trying to stay sober and help other people stay sober in what is a very difficult time. As I always like to say, we are locked down but we are not knocked down. I know what shows up. I am so excited because we have got our very first guest here on Over the Influence and there is no one else that I would rather have on the show. We have an antipodean rock God, we have someone who has been an absolute inspiration to me for years and his alcohol-free journey – the whole story from where he's come from and where he is now is absolutely unbelievable. This one is gonna blow your socks off. DREW I am so happy and so proud to have you right here on Over the Influence.

Drew Shapper 1:36

I thank you so much for having me and thanks for that far too generous introduction.

Sharon Hartley 1:41

That was quite a build-up Drew.

Drew Shapper 1:43

I know right! Now expectation.

Sharon Hartley 1:48

I think he's worth saying as well for me at this point. This is our first episode where there's four of us on this zoom call. And we are in two time zones. So, we're recording on an evening in England, and we've got Drew over in Melbourne, and it's tomorrow, which blows my mind, I think set in the morning.

Freddie Bennett 2:05

Obviously, if we hadn't had Coronavirus, I would have suggested that we'd all we'd picked up the show take it on the road, flown to Melbourne to have this 40-minute discussion. There's nothing like ruining the carbon footprint to really made a good show and if we delighted our listeners, which I'm sure we will, then it would absolutely be worth it.

Sharon Hartley 2:32

So, Drew as Freddie was saying, it's just absolutely brilliant to have you on board today. Just introduce yourself to us. Just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Drew Shapper 2:39

Sure thing. So, my name is Drew Shapper. I live in Melbourne, Australia. I’m 37. I'm married with one daughter who's now nearly four. Yeah, so as already mentioned, I am yeah, played drums in in sort of middling to poorly successful band. And some yeah, had a few tours around the world and various things and got myself in quite a pickle with drugs and alcohol when away. And yeah, I gave up drinking and taking drugs about… I think it was I think September 2018. I started trying and then had a few false starts and various catastrophic tumbles off the waggon along the way, and then finally put it together and have just reached over about 520 days sober.

Freddie Bennett 3:28

That's truly unbelievable. And think it's something we always talk about is that anyone really can do it. And I think you're such a testament to someone that has really lived that rock and roll lifestyle. And I'm sure that being there, got the story, got the band t-shirt and everything, but to be able to have that that strength to go through that journey does show that change really is possible for anyone.

Drew Shapper 3:50

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's an interesting one, because there are actually quite a lot of solo musicians, you hear about it all the time. And, you know, obviously being in that kind of bubble, where you're surrounded by alcohol and drugs, and it's almost like an industry, it's just an expectation that you are going to drink that you're going to a party and there's no one telling you you shouldn't. And there's no kind of, it's very difficult to have the kind of regular moral compass, you don't have to get up at nine o'clock and have this kind of, you know, professionalism, you can kind of tap into a venue hungover and drunk already and no one really cares. So, breaking that it's certainly not unprecedented. There's plenty of better stories than mine, but it is still difficult, and you know it was a hard one because sort of, you know, being surrounded by drugs and alcohol the whole time. So right from the get-go. When I was trying to stay sober. It was just in your face. 24/7. So, yeah, it felt like a like a good thing to do. And I certainly, as I got further along, I got I got more comfortable with that environment.

Sharon Hartley 4:56

So just referring back to what you said you described - your past, as you described it, was as a bit of a pickle. And also catastrophic. Just describe an average weekend to was in the days before you decided to go drug and alcohol free.

Drew Shapper 5:12

Sure thing. So, I started drinking it about 13. And I started taking drugs at about 14. So, I've always kind of had these big binges on the weekend. And, you know, from about sort of 18 to about 30, I probably, until my daughter was born really always sort of going without sleep most weekends. So taking a lot of amphetamines and ecstasy and things like that, as well as drinking just continuously, you know, Friday through Sunday, I kind of settled down a little bit with the birth of my daughter, because you just have to, and you know, you can't sort of justify that. But once the band sort of kicked off again, when we started touring, then it sort of became much more habitual. So it turned from like a weekend kind of binge sort of thing into a more like getting drunk every day. And, you know, getting my hands on whatever drugs are called, and sort of continuing that for six weeks, at a time when we're touring. So, when I finally decided to try and get sober, I’d just come back from tour of Europe, where I drank to the point where I was either physically sick or passing out every night for six weeks. And the last week of that, I'd also been taking speed every day as well. So I was in a pretty bad way. And then I sort of thought I'd just normalised when I got back home, and I just slipped back into dad mode and husband mode, and it will just all go away, miraculously. And as we all know, it's not like that, it's once you've sort of set that bar that high, it doesn't just miraculously reset to where you were before that. And so, I was finding I was drinking every day, habitually at home by myself. So it sort of turned from a partier into a chronic drinker. And I think that, you know, at that point, you can kind of say, well, without the labels and stuff that you're sort of struggling with some kind of alcoholism. And yeah, so I feel I really felt that at that point, I was in a position where I had to do something about it, and do something on a more kind of permanent level.

Freddie Bennett 7:05

And how did it go down? Drew, I can certainly relate to some of that story. I mean, not in the in the band sense. But I've been a way where you have weeks, or a long time where you're hitting it hard every day, and then you get in that position where you're feeling so shitty, to be honest, that the job I know what helped me feel better, I'll have a drink and everything. And then as you say, when you go from this very hard party environment, and then you walk through the front door and it's like Daddy's home. And you say you felt it difficult to adjust? I mean, did you cheat to feel like you had to hide it? Did you have to just sit on the sofa and say, look, guys, I'm, I'm leaving the drink now. And did it sort of affect your relationship and things like that?

Drew Shapper 7:47

It definitely did. I mean, my wife was quite rightly resentful being left for you know, I had sort of two of those six-week tours and smaller tour in America, we went to play some festivals over there and record now and all in the space of sort of eight months. So I was away every three weeks, you know, for like a long period of time. So, I left her alone with our then two-year-old, for quite a long time. So, she was already very stretched to the to the limit. So, I kind of got home and then she and I were in a tough patch of our marriage because, you know, she was resentful of being left alone like that. Well, I kind of went off pursuing my dream, which I think is completely fair enough. So, we had some things to work through. In terms of drinking was I was hiding a little bit. She's been very, always very accepting and supportive of me regardless, so she wasn't sort of saying you have to stop drinking or anything like that. But it was very interesting. When I said I was going to stop she didn't sort of say, or what do you mean? No, you don't have a problem or anything like that. It was like No, good. That's a good decision. So it was like that told me all I need it's like yeah, but look, to be honest, I was hiding things I was doing you know, like having half a bottle of wine with her, but then you know, topping up on a few whiskies in between drinks and then you know, having a secret stash of several different bottles of whiskies that were all open at once that I could rotate through, going down to the to the bottle shop and you know, getting really strong beers that were like 12% and drinking the whole bottle quickly. Yeah, just those kinds of things.

Freddie Bennett 9:32

I’ve definitely had that when you’re like in the lounge and say, ‘oh, I'll go and top us up’ and you go in the kitchen and you're like oh, one for me and one another one for me and one for you. And it's those sort of sneaky rounds… you realise that you are you're kind of hiding something from yourself and those nearest to you.

Drew Shapper 9:52

Exactly. And I never sort of, and it's that thing, alcohol made me incredibly unreliable. And I would do things that just put other things before family before my marriage. And it just got to the point where it was getting ridiculous. Like, I would say one thing, you know, I'll be home at 11 after a gig, and then I'd end up you know, snorting coke in the toilet at 12 when I'm supposed to be home and stumbling in at 10am drunk as and, you know, sick. It's not really a good way to run a relationship or, or to be a parent. And that was kind of one of the things that made me feel really, like I needed to pull my head and do something about it was, um, you know, seeing my daughter actually say, ‘what, what's wrong with you?’

Freddie Bennett 10:47

And to A, B to C, I totally emphasise. It was quite recently with me, you know, a family holiday. And I went for a couple of drinks, which ended up into, you know, all night session. And I have no recollection of it. But there's a story that one of my nephews came into the bathroom in the morning, and he was like, stepping over me whilst I was just sort of passed out on the bathroom floor. And you think, if those sorts of things we think, hang on, maybe that's not quite cool, and it's not quite as cool as, as it was when I was 15 or 16, or something. Yeah, exactly. Right. And do you think Drew I mean, it's a cliche, I know, but do you think that you had to reach that decision yourself? Because I know that the alcohol-free world, they always say that, you know, someone has to realise that they want to change their life, you can't make them. You can't make them change unless they're ready. And you think that's the case?

Drew Shapper 11:35

I think so. As much as I love partying, and I loved drinking, I you know, I listen to your first podcast, and I, I totally understand that thing of like, I loved partying, I loved getting drunk, guys. And, you know, I thought it was such a crucial component to my identity. But I also had this kind of sense from when I was very young, that it wasn't really what I wanted to be or wasn't really actually core to my identity at all. So, I'd had moments where I do dry January, or do dry July in Australia. And I'd have like a month off and it was particularly after that that I’d have a massive Bender and go wow, that's really pushed the limits, I need to back off. And I'd love those sober months, I'd feel better, I'd be fitter and eat help more healthily and save a tonne of money. And then I would just be around three weeks, I just start eating and I'd always cut my month off short, on a convenient Friday, and then I'd just be straight back to where I was, and nothing ever stuck. So, I think I had this kind of bubbling sense of luck. I wanted to try life without booze and drugs, but I could never get it together. So, I think for me, I had to come to it on my own. But I also had to be sort of confronted by the fact that I wasn't actually functioning well anymore. Like I've always been this kind of high-functioning person. I'm binge drinker, but I was getting to the point where I was starting to really, you know, was doing really dumb things and staying out till 2am on work night and you know, doing drugs on work nights and sitting in work cubicle, you know, like trying to vomit and you know, having diarrhoea all day and stuff like this, where I was actually like, this is no longer high functioning, this is poorly functioning.

Freddie Bennett 13:21

Did it affect your music at all?

Drew Shapper 13:24

It's hard to say. I mean, I saw video footage of our last tour, and we played really well. So I think I was good enough at the time to kind of get through it. But I think I definitely did it just way harder than it needed to be like I remember the last night of of touring, and I was sweating so much because I was just like sweating out booze and drugs and like my legs. I felt like I was running a marathon and like this isn't our set. This is nothing physically demanding it all. So, I think it physically it just became so much harder than it needed to be and look probably could have been way better than I am.

Sharon Hartley 14:07

I've got a question for you about social life being friendly. I've talked in previous episodes about how hard it is. When you put it out there you say ‘right, okay, I'm gonna go alcohol-free’ and in your case, drug and alcohol free. Yet what you've described to us and your social scene and of course touring with the band, the two seem to go hand in hand. What was the reaction of your bandmates and of your friends when you said you were stopping.

Drew Shapper 14:33

You know what’s interesting with my bandmates? Half of them don't drink. So, it was this funny thing of like me and me and one other guy in the band, were just smashing it and the other two, one drink moderately and the other one didn't drink at all. So I do sort of look back and cringe and think what must they, you know, have thought of us? But the guy who was getting drunk with was super supportive because he saw you know, he was doing with me on it, he was sort of at the same stage of drinking as well. And he has tried to give up as well. So they were very supportive and very, they were fine about it, really. But um, I have played in other bands where they're just, you know, getting smashed the whole time. And to be honest, the music scene was amazingly supportive. No one was sort of judgmental, or anything. And that was a real eye opener to me, it was sort of how much of this has been just me justifying drinking, rather than it was a perceived kind of pressure to drink. It wasn't actually real, it was just that I've got an excuse that I'm in a pub, I can't not drink.

Sharon Hartley 15:35

That's the thing, isn't it, you will look for an excuse to drink at any point, which we've said before, you know, in your case, so I'm a musician, I'm touring. And for me, it'd be the day ends in a way, you know, so it's winter Wednesday or whatever. But what we found through talking and talking to other people, those excuses you found to drink now become your reasons not to. Is that the same case with you Drew?

Drew Shapper 16:02

Absolutely. And to be honest, the only thing that I have found that I have enjoyed less without alcohol is just sitting around in a pub. Yeah, it’s rubbish. That's the only thing so like, those events, like going to see concerts, going to see gigs, playing gigs. You know, anything that has some kind of entertainment even going to like the football or sporting events and stuff. It's really fun. Sorry, everyone, I had such a great time. But weddings, you know, all those kinds of things really good fun… going out to dinner. The only thing I can't stand is that, you know, I feel like it's just not fun sitting around in a pub getting drunk and watching people get drunk anymore.

Sharon Hartley 16:44

I couldn't agree more.

Freddie Bennett 16:45

I think hopefully, that gives you like the self-belief, as you said, it was so caught up in my personality, because I had to be the first guy at the bar, the first guy getting the shots in, the guy that was trying to make the party happen and, and go through that stage where you worry and you think, you know, my friends aren’t still gonna be my friends anymore. And if I say I'm not going to go to the pub, are they gonna laugh at me? Are they gonna delete me from the phones and you have to try and develop that self-belief where you're like, you know what, this is me now. Obviously, don't try telling that to a musician. Sorry.

Sharon Hartley 17:22

You just did that.

Drew Shapper 17:25

I'm no musician. I'm a drama.

Sharon Hartley 17:39

Drew, it's fair to say you look really well. Just talk us about the physical benefits you found through changing is just changed massively. You've changed everything, haven't you?

Drew Shapper 17:50

Yeah, absolutely. So I guess, um, physically, I, one of the first things I thought I must do is try and do some exercise. And, you know, I was really physically very unwell when I came home from touring and I thought, you know, part of that was lack of exercise, terrible diet, lots of drinking. So when I sort of started thinking about, you know, getting rid of alcohol, I thought I need to get some more positive routines. And I think I'm quite an extreme personal need these kinds of addictions. So I just started getting up at 05:30 and going to the gym everyday, as it's like, go do it. Even if you just walk on a treadmill for five minutes, just go and do something. And it was amazing how just getting into that routine of just doing something every day started to really, it took ages to be honest, like I wasn't straight into like running or straight into gyms and things like that, but it just sort of built up and then slowly over time, I started feeling like I was getting healthy again, just replacing those bad habits of drinking with a good habits. If I was tempted, if I was playing a show, and I was feeling like I was wavering really badly, I just thought forward to that, you know, 5:30am wake up or something something to look forward to. And I know you guys are, you know, particularly for you you've done some amazing feats with running and stuff and that's always been so inspiring to look at.

Sharon Hartley 19:18

Yeah, right, I'm just like some hideous middle-aged blob.

Freddie Bennett 19:27

Are you? I thought you were about 34/35.

Sharon Hartley 19:31

Thanks. I'll take that. What Drew was saying there is that it's just about doing something different, isn't it and it is glorious getting up at five o'clock in the morning. Because you don't have a hangover. And for you the difference between getting up now fresh-faced feeling great. Compared to back then after a 14-hour bender with the band or whatever, you must feel amazing and incredibly proud of where you are now.

Drew Shapper 19:55

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that the early early starts, like getting up early at the same sort of time every day, I felt was such a great routine. And it stopped some of those like impulses to kind of like, you know, it's nine o'clock at night, my daughter's in bed, what do I do? I go to bed in half an hour, because I'm shagged, from getting up at 05:30. So, it's set this nice circadian kind of existence. And it's sort of damp, and my evenings, because that was when I start would get into trouble is the kind of few hours between, you know, my daughter's bedtime and my bed time where I'd sort of start going, Oh, what do I do on board and, you know, I need I need some kind of stress relief, and in some something to sort of put a full stop on the day. And I found that the early morning exercise was actually doing that really well. And it was also calming some of my anxiety and stop me slipping into, you know, depression and stuff. So yeah, the difference was just amazing. And I remember one, it was New Year's Day, last year, and it was my first sober, New Year’s Day. And I got up at 05:30 and did my morning run. And there were like, just people still out, you know, on the beach, getting getting shit-faced. And I just thought, like, I've been that person, every year of my life on every day of the new year since I was about 14. And here I am at 36 running around like that smug asshole that you see, like, you know, mid Bender, thinking, that prick and so I was that smug prick and I was really happy about it.

Sharon Hartley 21:37

It’s great being that smug prick occasionally, isn't it, it really is true, what you were just talking about there, this is something Freddie might want to chat to you about is the improvement in your mental health. You just touched on depression, and anxiety. I imagine this is all changed as well now.

Drew Shapper 21:54

Yeah, it has massively, I didn't realise how much drinking was causing me to be very anxious. And I mean, it was partly the pressure cooker of the band, I was sort of doing all the managing and nuts and bolts of tour booking and all that kind of stuff. And I am also hung out financially quite a long way. And so those things the excessive alcohol, the financial strain, and obviously, the relationship strain of being away a lot. I really spiralled with my mental health. And I got help while I was in the midst of that, and I was sort of on quite a high dose of antidepressants to kind of cope with the anxiety. But I was drinking and taking drugs the whole time. So it did, it worked for like a couple of days. And then I've just felt terrible again. And the psychiatrist I was saying was just like, oh, you need to stop drinking. And I was like, yeah, I know that. Any pointers or any help, and there's just no help at all. So I started speaking to a psychologist, and I was very aware that I was, you know, in a bad way, but I just couldn't seem to get it together. It was really six months of that kind of really bad anxiety spiral before I started getting off the alcohol and the drugs and then about probably I think about three months of being alcohol-free. Then I started coming off the antidepressants, and I've been completely off them now for Yeah, over a year, I guess. Yeah.

Freddie Bennett 23:23

Awesome. Now I totally I totally get that. And it's funny, isn't it because it doesn't take a scientist to work out. And we all know that alcohol is a depressant, but I was the same. I didn't put the connection together. I couldn't work out for years and years. Like you feel shitty, and then you get hungover and then you get anxious then other things happen in your life. See, you have a drink, and you feel better. And you get in that cycle. And when I sort of had my mental health issues, and I sort of went through therapy, and I had that thing where I knew I was drinking too much. I knew I couldn't blame everything on alcohol, but I knew it was definitely a big contributor. And I kind of said to the guy that I was seeing in therapy and I was like, is it I'm a bit worried that I'm drinking too much. And he actually said to me, no, I don't think you've got an alcohol problem. And he was like, oh, you got all sorts of problems. You got a problem as long as a shopping list, but alcohol you're okay with. And then for about a couple of years after that I had that in my head, from this guy with all the certificates on his wall. He said that I don't drink too much. So, you know, pour me another one. It wasn't until after I stopped that I realised what a big contributor it was. It was in the early days like in the first I think I was about quite two weeks alcohol-free. My anxiety was through the roof. It was like all the skeletons in my closet. All the mistakes of my past are coming back to haunt me. And as I did it, as my brain was resetting or just my whole body, I felt like oh, hang on, this is this is what normal life is like when you're not drunk half the time, but it does feel like a rollercoaster with your emotions.

Drew Shapper 25:01

Absolutely. I had the same experience. I mean, lots of people talk about, you know how their anxiety drops when they start, you know, to get off alcohol and other drugs. And I had the exact opposite. I felt like, all of a sudden, I just did not know where to turn, I had no off switch, I was so anxious and really struggling with that. And I realised how much I drunk to alleviate social anxiety. And I all of a sudden didn't have that I just had no coping strategies whatsoever. That was my only coping strategy. So when I got anxious in public, or you know, on the public transport, I found myself, you know, having panic attacks on the train to work and stuff, partly because it was a shit job, and I hated it. And I was dreading going to work and I wasn't blunted, like I usually was to make it okay. And I was kind of a bit resentful because I thought I was doing all the right things of, you know, stopping drinking, and here am I having more mental health issues than I ever had, but I just, I just stayed the course I talked with my psychologist who was much more sympathetic and she was very good about sort of reminding me that, you know, you've been drinking to alleviate social anxiety since you were 13 which is like you've had no experiences in adulthood without alcohol really. And it's going to just take time so I just, I guess I just had to stick with it. And eventually over time, I started meditating and you know, doing much more exercise and trying to kind of let anxiety flow a little bit more and stop feeling so bad that you know, you feel bad. Yes, slowly over time. And I think you know, as we all know, doing over a year of sobriety it does come in waves and you hit those flat patches and patches were the past kind of catches up with you I think, and you feel terrible and look back on your life and think, what the hell have you been doing?

Freddie Bennett 26:57

As I like to say (and there's going to be a Freddie saying here) is that regret is just a mistake that we haven't forgiven ourselves for. Yeah.

Sharon Hartley 27:10

You almost made me cry saying that. That was funny that just touched me. Crikey!

Freddie Bennett 27:13

I know. I only do about one a month and that's for me now, but I mean, yeah, regret’s a terrible thing. But yeah. I had so many regrets. I did so many stupid things. And you know what, I'm sure I will still do stupid things in the future, even though I'm not drinking, but pouring a bottle of vodka down my throat can't change the past. We have to accept that we're not perfect. And alcohol’s not going to make us any more perfect.

Drew Shapper 27:47

And when I think back on the sort of the worst things I've done, they've all started with a drink. Pretty much all of them. When I realised, I thought, wow, that's a really sobering thought that, you know, every really catastrophically bad decision I've made started with one beer and just escalated from there. So that was another thing that I also felt oddly, kind of comforted by I was like, just say no to that one beer and see what happens, see how many dumb things you do. And it's been quite interesting to sort of, just slowly keep track of that. And I realised that you know, just put myself in fewer stupid situations because of that, and that impact ripples outwards. Like my wife is now very much more… she just relies on me much more. Because I'm not that kind of irresponsible person that you can't rely on to get home when they say they're going to get home. You know, she feels much more comfortable leaving me with doing much more of the parenting duties, because she knows I'm not going to get drunk and you know, be the bad dad and those kinds of things. So that that those unforeseen consequences really start to add up and I think that that's something I would never have been able to predict when I started to get sober.

Sharon Hartley 29:14

Drew, you've shared with us your incredible story. It's been amazing. Looking ahead. Do you ever think you might drink again or take drugs again? What if the urge comes over? What do you do now for coping mechanisms?

Drew Shapper 31:59

Okay. Yep. So the plan is, how I'm feeling at the moment is I don't have any intention to drink again, I just don't feel like rage, I think I'd be perfectly fine to have like a beer or two. I just don't feel like inviting that potential drama back into my life. So at the moment, I'm feeling pretty, pretty solid with alcohol, I must admit that the whole like lockdown and COVID crisis has been the most tempted. I've been in, you know, 18 months.

Sharon Hartley 32:30

It's been really difficult as it is. I mean, myself and Freddie talked about this last episode. It is a really, really tough time. And it would be so easy to go, yeah, go on. Let's have a drink.

Drew Shapper 32:40

Yeah, I haven't felt like this until last week, about week seven of lockdown. And I just thought like, I just want to get outside my head for two seconds. I just couldn't. Like, I was kind of tapped out of other coping mechanisms. And I just saw, there was a bottle of wine sitting there, because my wife still has the occasional glass and I just thought I could crack that and just, you know, forget about my troubles for a couple of hours. But then I also very quickly said to myself, what would that actually achieve? How would I feel after that? Would I just march down the street to get more? Would I then get the edge felt like stronger stuff? You know? Yeah. So, I was able to sort of squash that. So knowing that, I have no intention of drinking and to be honest drugs. It's really funny. I mean, such a big part of my life for so many years. But now that I'm not drinking to remove my inhibitions, I'm shit scared of drugs. Like what the hell is in them? Just like the whole thing is just completely abhorrent to me now, which is really interesting and happened so early on. I just found that one when, yeah, it was alcohol that was really opening the floodgates for more partying, and it's just gone now that I'm not drinking. So that was that was really another really great unforeseen consequence.

Sharon Hartley 34:12

You can hear the change is true. And you just said right at the beginning of the podcast, you're over 500 days now alcohol free. And with that comes a whole new persona, and a whole new stack of strength to deal with the future, doesn't it?

Drew Shapper 34:25

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think like we've sort of talked about this along the way, quite a lot. But I think it's a really important point that going alcohol-free doesn't sort of magically make your life better, but it gives you the chance to find out what's going wrong and fix it because you're not sort of numbing yourself or you're not coping. I think alcohol is such a numbing chemical. And it's so such an easy kind of crutch because it does allow you to kind of cope with things that aren't going well in your life and all of a sudden those things start to really stare you in the face when you are forced to remove that drug. I think that that then allows you to sort of work on the tools that help you address those things. So for me, it was just a first step to then being able to have the confidence and the ability to work on myself after that. So that might be a long process. But you know, certainly, I'm feeling a lot better than I was 520 days ago when I woke up in a tent after ketamine, speed, cocaine, alcohol bender, so.

Freddie Bennett 35:25

We talked about what amazing journey it's been for the last year, 520 days. And now the obvious question is, what's next? What have you got planned? What does life look like? I've heard rumours in the press about a book coming out. And so, what does the future look like for you?

Drew Shapper 35:42

Yeah, so I've, I'm working on a book, I've just sort of finished my second draft. It’s quite close to being published. I've got a publisher, a New York based publisher who, for some God knows why reason, have agreed to release it. So, yeah, so I'm hoping but I'm not sure how that's gonna come out is the whole, you know, pandemic and New York being bit shut down at the moment. But I'm hoping either at the end of this year, or maybe sort of mid next year, some sometime between six months and a year, that'll be coming out. And it's basically a sort of memoir, slash sort of Quit-lit. So, it's kind of documented the first year of my sobriety, how I went about it, but also dipping back into the past, to kind of show how I got into the kind of trouble that I did, but also the sort of tactics and the sort of things I used to get out of it. So I'm hoping that it's kind of like a relatively interesting read, but hopefully, it will help people to get out of their alcohol problems as well. So absolutely, that's next for me. Um, I’ve just been writing all throughout the lockdown. So it's actually been not too bad from that angle. And then I'm going to do something that's very uncharacteristic, for me, which is I'm going to wait and see what happens and go from there.

Freddie Bennett 37:02

Isn't that amazing? I bet if someone said to you, you know, let's say two years ago, that you're going to have a publishing deal book coming out, you're going to be seen as inspirational figure in this whole community, then, it may have been quite difficult to believe, but it just shows how quickly life can change sometimes and how much it can change for the better.

Drew Shapper 37:22

I absolutely have always wanted to write a book. I used to write quite prolifically, and I studied at uni and stuff. And I just stopped because I was so sick of going back to my notebook. It's quite amazing. I still got it. But there's just drunken drivel throughout; just this existential bullshit. And I was so sick of reading my own garbled nonsense that I just stopped. And so, for, probably, you know, seven or eight years, this real passion that I'd been doing since I was a kid, I just stopped doing it completely. And it was one of the things that I probably should have mentioned as well. That was one of the things that helped me with sobriety was I wrote daily, I just started writing in a notebook first, and then I started posting it just to try and you know, get it out there and to stop being so guarded about it as well. I wanted to kind of own my problems, and also just put it out there. And it was amazing how much people related to it. And straightaway, you build community by being a bit brave and putting a story out there. So, I still can't sort of believe that I've you know, that the book thing… I'm still sort of in massive disbelief about all that. So I hope to get it polished and if it's vaguely readable, I'll be happy.

Sharon Hartley 38:50

Drew, it has been absolutely brilliant speaking to you your journey, you'll cringe at this. But it truly is inspirational. It's been amazing to hear where you've come from, where you are now and your plans for the future. They really are breath-taking. And every credit to you. Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing such a personal journey. If you've touched somebody right now, and you want to find out more about you and your story, and of course, the book, where can they get a bit more information?

Drew Shapper 39:30

At the moment, I'm just kind of developing a website for the book and everything but it will be available at Drewshopper.com. Very original, purchase from myname.com. So that'll be all up and ready to go. I'm hoping in the next week or so. So yeah, keep your eyes peeled for that.

Sharon Hartley 39:45

You've got to keep in touch with us. We'll have you back and you could tell us get back in touch in the future and share about the book and everything. It's really exciting.

Drew Shapper 39:52

Oh, that would be amazing Shaz. It's been so lovely to talk to you guys. Finally, after many messages over the last year and a half!

Freddie Bennett 39:59

Thank you so much for coming on. We appreciate it so much you are and always will be an absolute inspiration of mine.

Drew Shapper 40:07

Thanks, mate. I feel very much the same about you guys. So, it's been a pleasure to be on this and you know, congratulations for doing this thing. It's a wonderful thing. Yeah. I doubt if you both flashback a year and a half you'd be imagining you'd be doing this either.

Sharon Hartley 40:22

Well I'd be drunk, so.

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