ALAN POWER: Welcome to the National Trust Gardens podcast.

I'm Alan Power, the head gardener at Stourhead in

Wiltshire.

And this is the second of our three part series, bringing you

the secrets behind one of Britain's most beautiful

gardens. Today, I'm at Croome Park in Worcestershire, a

wonderful 18th century landscape garden designed by Capability

Brown and the Earl at the time decorated with 18th century

garden features and a centrepiece, a beautiful

Palladian House. It's overlooked by the magnificent Malvern Hills

in the distance.

Today, I'm here to find out what makes this place so special.

It may once have been a boggy marsh, but it's where one of the

world's greatest landscape gardeners cut his teeth in the

18th century.

Croome has had many uses over the last century, not just as a

wonderful place to visit. The uses have been diverse and wide

ranging. It was a secret wartime airbase at one stage. It's been

a boys school. It's been a Hare Krishna Institution and it was

overlaid with intensive farmland for quite a long time.

In the 18th century, this was the very first estate that was

created in its entirety by the landscape gardener Capability

Brown.

But its recent history has left marks on the landscape. The

National Trust have been working really hard to restore the

gardens to their 18th century style since 1996.

I'm standing near the visitor centre at the northern end of

the estate where we're sheltered from the wind and I'm meeting

Katherine Alker, the head gardener at Croome.

Now, Katherine, you've been here a while, haven't you?

KATHERINE ALKER: Yes. Hi, Alan. I've been here just about 10

years now. It's changed enormously over the past few

centuries and is still changing massively now. And what what

we're doing here is restoring the vision of Capability Brown,

along with the Sixth Earl of Coventry to transform what was

quite an unproductive piece of land into a beautiful landscaped

designed garden with beautiful pasture and yeah, a wonderful

landscape.

ALAN POWER: Katherine today, I have the privilege of you taking

me around your garden. And what I really want to try and get

today is, is more inspiration from Capability Brown's kind of

winter landscape work that he did.

KATHERINE ALKER: Great! And we'll start off with a walk down

the wilderness walk.

ALAN POWER: Katherine, we're standing looking at Brown's

amazing work and this is what thrills me about 18th century

landscape gardens. They're just stunning. They take your breath

away when you emerge from a dark surrounded protected walk like

we just have and you see a view like this across the English

landscape.

And although immediately it's not, it's not obvious the

efforts that went into creating this landscape. It's- it's there

in the detail.

For me as a gardener, I start looking at the efforts from

history, the huge cedar trees that were planted strategically

around the estate to guide your eyes to particular views.

And then I'm looking down at the efforts that you're making

nowadays as, as a garden team, I can see young ambitious trees

planted and surrounded with tree guards. But the whole thing sits

magnificently below the Malvern Hills in the distance. And we're

lucky enough to catch a little bit of November sunshine today.

So what we can see is the shadow stretching across the landscape

and it's looking absolutely amazing.

KATHERINE ALKER: It's been a huge amount of work. But we're,

we're really pleased with how everything's progressing and how

the restoration is coming along.

Standing here in 1996, what we would have seen is an arable

crop. Nearly all of the park and trees had disappeared.

Either due to Dutch Elm Disease because they were awful lot of

elms across the parkland or simply because the farmer had

wanted to get the most productivity from the land and-

ploughed very close to the trees or remove them.

ALAN POWER: Now, the landscape was dressed quite- with a lot of

detail, wasn't it In the 18th century? There was quite a plant

collection at Croome.

KATHERINE ALKER: It was an amazing plant collection. Yeah,

the Sixth Earl of Coventry was really an obsessed man. He loved

plants and spent an absolute fortune bringing in plants from

across the globe.

We've got lots of evidence in the archive, the plant bills and

also a guidebook from 1824 that shows us that they were bringing

in plants from the Far East, from the Americas from all

across the globe really. And, and that was driven by the

Earl's passion for planting.

ALAN POWER: And I know you're working really hard at the

moment, aren't you planting trees? How many trees do you

reckon you've planted in the 10 years you've been here?

KATHERINE ALKER: We have certainly planted thousands, I

would say easily over 10,000 trees. And then shrubs

throughout the shrubberies, we've also done a huge amount of

planting-

ALAN POWER: It must have been amazing for you. The first day

you saw livestock wandering through the trees and the tree

guards.

KATHERINE ALKER: It's lovely and the cattle down on church hill,

just add a beautiful sense of scale. The tenant farmers now

got the right breeds of cattle, so they really look part of the

18th century landscape.

ALAN POWER: How on earth did he get it from being a boggy marsh

to the magnificence of Croome.

KATHERINE ALKER: When Brown arrived here, Croome Court, he

was initially commissioned by the Sixth Earl to actually work

on the court rather than just the landscape. So he would have

seen a much smaller Croome Court, a brick building, but

also sitting in quite an unproductive area of land. There

was a church nearby to the court as well as a little hamlet of

buildings and a few farm buildings.

But typical Brown, That wasn't quite right for him. So he, he

expanded the court, put towers on the end and enveloped the

building in the beautiful bath stone that we can see today.

But also, he wanted a much more open view from the court across

the landscape. So the church was demolished and the hamlet was

moved about a mile away and then Brown himself redesigned the

church and this is the church that we can see today.

ALAN POWER: And it was all about creating the kind of utopian

effect on the landscape. Wasn't it making it that perfect

picture?

KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. And Brown, I think was he was at

the start of his career when he worked at Croome. The Earl took

a bit of a gamble on him and it certainly paid off and he became

one of the country's most famous landscape designers.

ALAN POWER: So I'm meeting with Michael Smith, the general

manager of Croome. Now, general managers for the National Trust

do all sorts of stuff. They look after the conservation ambitions

for the property, the finance for the property, the visitor

experience at the property and every aspect of the management

of the property. But we're standing outside a hut at Croome

today Michael, can you just describe where we are?

MICHAEL SMITH: Well, this hut- And there are many huts like

this spread out across the landscape at Croome is part of

RAF Defford which in the 1940s was an RAF base instrumental in

the development of airborne radar systems. It was all top

secret at the time and it's a quite phenomenal story.

ALAN POWER: It is, isn't it? Can you tell us a little bit more

the kind of the RAF impact on the- on Croomes landscape here?

MICHAEL SMITH: Yeah, there was colossal change at Croome in the

1940s and of course those wide open pastures that Brown had set

out here in the 18th century were the ideal place to create

an airbase. And Croome had three vast interlocking runways, and a

village sprang up here which eventually accommodated almost

3000 service personnel.

So this sprang up over a very short time and here with over

200 aircraft on station, our British electronics experts were

kitting out newly developed radar systems into each and

every type of plane and then testing them, trialling them

here.

There was a whole amount of sort of counter propaganda that went

out. The story about pilots

eyesight being helped by eating carrots was an invention that

came out of RAF Defford to throw our enemies off the trail of

what was really happening here.

But through the efforts of the the young service people here,

service men and service women, developments were made that were

instrumental in securing the allied victory in World War Two.

ALAN POWER: And Michael this- this museum this ambulance shed,

was nearly lost at one stage, wasn't it?

MICHAEL SMITH: It was, we caught these buildings just the nick of

time. And in the 1940s, they were thrown up in a great hurry

as temporary structures, you know, they're half a brick

thick.

And when we took on the management of the state in 1996

we didn't really realize the significance of them and they

were all boarded up in various states of decline, covered with

brambles and scrub.

But gradually as we got to meet the veterans of the air base, we

understood how important they were. We realized that there was

another very important story to tell.

ALAN POWER: Has there been many more significant changes in the

history of landscape at Croome?

MICHAEL SMITH: There have and I think there's a tendency to see

the 1940s developments here as an anomaly. But even after the

1940s, other communities have made the very most of what

Croome has to offer, including devotees of Krishna.

And in 1979 with funding help from George Harrison. Krishna

devotees acquired Croome Court renamed it Caitanya College. And

the natural landscape here has always been appealing in a draw

to whoever has called Croome home.

ALAN POWER: It's fantastic, isn't it? And these people, all

of these people were, were building what is the countryside

around here now? You know, what is the heart of the countryside.

It's such a beautiful place to come.

It's been really fantastic.

MICHAEL SMITH: Cheers Alan, Thanks.

ALAN POWER: Katherine, this is a bit better. down here, isn't it

out of the wind? And we've captured, you know, a little bit

of warm sunshine kind of on our backs, which is really nice this

time of year.

And we're in November, you and I as gardeners were saying goodbye

to autumn colour and we're welcoming in the winter. And do

you find this time of year particularly exciting at Croome?

KATHERINE ALKER: There's still lots lots going on here. Part of

Brown's design actually included an evergreen shrubbery. So at

this time of year, it's actually the perfect place to be because

you've still got flowering shrubs, scented shrubs and it

was designed as a winter walk. So, somewhere to enjoy once the

main summer planting had finished, really.

ALAN POWER: And the structure within those borders is quite

amazing as well, isn't it? You get the berries, you get the

foliage, you get the, the, the center of the foliage in places,

but the way he structured the borders was quite. Fascinating

as well.

KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. It's quite a windy day and, what

we've got at the back of the shrubbery is a line of evergreen

trees, that would have protected from the prevailing winds so

that the plants inside the shrubbery, the real interesting

stuff, was protected.

It had a little microclimate and it could flourish within that

shrubbery even though it's quite exposed out in the Parkland.

We've got plants that will give off scent in winter and early

spring, and even some things that are very early flowering.

So, for example, Daphnes, which have not only beautiful little

pink flowers but amazing scent as well and it just fills the

shrubbery.

ALAN POWER: And it's nice, isn't it? Because it's predominantly

evergreen plants through here. You're not reminded of the end

of a season. You're not reminded that summer is gone and autumn's

gone, you're, you're surrounded by plants that are constantly

alive.

KATHERINE ALKER: That's right. The Portuguese Laurel with

beautiful glossy leaves- Hollies. There's one just over

there with bright red berries. So loads still to keep us

interested throughout the winter.

ALAN POWER: And the Rosemary is one that is really striking for

me because, you know, I'm a bit of a touchy feely plant person.

So I'll always- if I know there's a scent coming from it,

I'll go and grab it and, you know, I carry that scent around

for a while, but there's a few kind of non-standard shrubs in

here, isn't there?

KATHERINE ALKER: There are. Yeah, we've used Rosemary here.

We know that they planted Rosemary in the shrubberies. And

we also have some Sage which hasn't lasted quite so well in

the harsh winters. I've got Jasmine for that, that spring

flowering brightness of yellow colour throughout the winter.

Guelder Rose with bright glossy red berries as well.

We've also got a couple of Witch Hazels, the Hamamelis, which

have the really, sort of spider like yellow flowers. And again,

some of those have fantastic scent.

In the records, there were also hundreds of different Ericas, so

hundreds of different heathers, we haven't quite got to the

stage of replanting that particular section yet. We'll

need to sort out the, the soil for that because they need

Ericaceous compost. And even in the records, there's an example

of them bringing in tons and tons of Ericaceous soil to plant

those, those heathers in so-

ALAN POWER: They used to make it themselves didn't they? And I've

read in a few archives in places how, you know, they would go to

a local timber mill and they would use the, the sawdust from

pine trees to kind of add to the- add to the soil along with

some kind of charcoal and that kind of thing and cinders, to

actually, you know, increase the acidity level in it.

So it's- they were real kind of garden scientists but-

KATHERINE ALKER: Chemistry in the garden.

ALAN POWER: Well, it's nice that variegated holly is really

striking, isn't it? Because? And the birds haven't got to the

berries yet. I'm sure they'll discover them over the next

month or so as the temperatures drop, but they'll get in there.

KATHERINE ALKER: Yeah. And we've also got Broom, lots of

different pines as well. There were a huge number of pines in

the archive records in the plant bills. So that gives us a nice

bit of structure throughout the shrubbery as well.

ALAN POWER: Fantastic, isn't it? It is. It's a living library of

stuff, isn't it? And back then they were just learning about

plants as well all the time. It's amazing. The more I'm

learning about Croome today, the more fascinating it gets.

The depth of knowledge and the depth of history and the depth

of nature conservation here is genuinely, you know, it's

moving, you know, it's a wonderful thing to hear.

KATHERINE ALKER: Well, it's been a delight to show you round.

ALAN POWER: I've left behind the evergreen shrubbery and I'm

heading down towards the lake under this dry arch bridge to

meet Hugh Warwick, the area ranger at Croome.

Hi, Hugh, how are you doing? Yeah, good. Thank you. How are

you? Yeah. Not too bad. Not too bad. So, your role here is area

ranger. What does it involve?

HUGH WARWICK: The main focus for my work here is across the

parkland and woodland. So I'm responsible for looking after

those trying to maintain the good conservation work that we

do and to do the restoration work as well to try to get this

place back to how Brown first envisaged it.

ALAN POWER: So, parkland and woodland, you say, but actually

we've just come under this dry arch bridge and the first thing

I'm met with was this water.

HUGH WARWICK: Yes, we've got a mile and three quarter long

artificial river here at Croome and then that's all well within

the parkland. And we try our best to manage that.

ALAN POWER: And have you had to do any kind of silt management

or anything like that with the lakes here.

HUGH WARWICK: Yeah, certainly when, when the National Trust

took Croome on, in 1996 the full length of the river here was

almost entirely silted up. You could walk across the river in

quite a few places. That, in its own right was a really good

thing, in many ways for, for loss of habitat, lots of

wildlife using that, wading birds and so forth. So we knew

that for the restoration, we had to restore it back to a river.

It had to have water flowing through it, but we also needed

to to do it as sensitively as we can, so as not to just destroy

this habitat. So what we did before we- we dredged the river

out, we actually created two new wetland areas on the estate

here. And those help to, to mitigate against the work we're

doing. So we now have two really nice quiet wetland areas ideal

for wading birds.

ALAN POWER: But it's amazing, isn't it? In, in your role? You

must see it because you're really close to it. But the

minute you add that water element to a garden, you- all of

a sudden the diversity of insects, bird life, it

completely changes, doesn't it?

HUGH WARWICK: Yeah, we have monitoring programs here. So we

have volunteers who are trained to monitor and my assistant

ranger has just recently been doing some water quality

testing. You've got somewhere there that the larvae can grow

and, and then that goes to- obviously you get the insects

then and then that feeds the birds and the bats and the

wildlife.

ALAN POWER: So we're leaving the dry arch bridge behind and in

complete contrast to the enclosure of that bridge, we've

just come out and there is this magnificent view. I can see two

bridges.

I can see what looks like an island but in true Brown

fashion, I don't know whether it's an island until I get

further around the pathways because it's still full of

mystery. Although it's a big view.

Do you have any winter migratory birds that come in and make use

of this wonderful pond?

HUGH WARWICK: Well, we have had an Osprey passing through,

believe it or not. Yeah, we've also had Hawfinches here. We

have Fieldfare and Redwings.

So, yeah, we get quite a few migratory species passing

through and I think we've become a bit of a kind of a local haven

for wildlife because we're a nice green space. There's,

there's the wild flower meadows and so forth and as you say, the

body of water and all the insects that that provides.

ALAN POWER: Well, Hugh, thanks a million.

HUGH WARWICK: My pleasure.

ALAN POWER: It's been a wonderful day at Croome today

and I'm finishing my day in one of the most stunning views I've

captured all day, standing at the rotunda, looking out over a

glorious landscape with the river flowing in the distance.

One of the people who is very close to Croome is with me now,

Malcolm Walford, who has spent his life working and living on

the estate at Croome for the last 68 years.

MALCOM WALFORD: Good afternoon.

ALAN POWER: Malcolm. It's a pleasure to meet you. You've got

quite a CV a Croome, haven't you?

MALCOM WALFORD: Yes I have. I started in 1953 after five years

at RAF Defford.

Still semi employed by the Croome estate trustees.

My job still entails me to be clerk of works. That was my

position since 1986.

ALAN POWER: It's not just you is it? Your family's worked-

MALCOM WALFORD: My grandparents have been on the estate since

the 1800s.

My father was, when he left school at 13. He went as second

groom at Pirton Court, which is all part of the Coventry family.

And my uncle Ern, was head groom and my Uncle Bob was head

forester on the estate.

ALAN POWER: So we, we're standing by a spectacular view

out into the countryside.

And what's striking me, Malcolm is that it's really your home,

isn't it?

MALCOM WALFORD: It is my home.

Yeah, it is my home and when it comes to flood, fire or

whatever, I've always been there for Croome and that's been part

of my job.

ALAN POWER: You obviously feel it's really important to kind of

preserve and conserve Croome for the future-

MALCOM WALFORD: It's got to be! You know, it's got to be

preserved. What better place in Worcestershire is? You've got

stood here looking at Croome River. Where hours and hours

we've, we've gone to the end of the river when all the grounds

here were ploughed up. You know, it's not always been grassland

here.

This was plowed up in the sixties and in front of the

church. And it was part of our job when the farmer complained

the river was too high. We used to take the old van, the A35

Austin van down to the other end of the river and change what we

call the flood board out.

ALAN POWER: Sounds a bit like my job.

You know, I do bits of that at Stourhead. We have a dam we look

after and there's Saturdays, Sundays, evenings, mornings that

I'm out to check the levels. And you know what I love about

working in historic environments is that there are some jobs that

can never change.

It's so it's so important, isn't it? To kind of capture memories

and capture scenes and to share it and hand it on to the next

generation-

MALCOM WALFORD: Some wonderful here at Croome.

But hopefully, I've, I've passed on a lot of information like I

keep finding photographs for Katherine and one thing or

another.

ALAN POWER: So and tell, tell me you mentioned you, it's 68 years

in total, but five years of that was spent with the RAF.

And how did your transition from the RAF onto the estate happen?

MALCOM WALFORD: In a pub.

ALAN POWER: In a pub? Best place for everything to happen isn't

it-

MALCOM WALFORD: And my Uncle Bob came in one night because we'd

already been informed, Defford was closing and my Uncle Bob

come in there and the pub one night and we was talking and he

said there's a labourer job going at Croome. And I wrote a

letter and it went to Colonel Osbert Smith who was grandson of

the ninth Earl. And he said, are you going to be strong enough

for this job?

And the first day I started, I went home on the lunchtime and I

said to my dad, I'm finishing tonight and I thought I can't do

with this.

He said you stick it and I did

ALAN POWER: And 63 years later-

MALCOM WALFORD: Have been over Croome River on a lovely night

ALAN POWER: And you're still in love with the place?

MALCOM WALFORD: Of course, I am. I always will be

ALAN POWER: Malcolm. It's been a pleasure.

MALCOM WALFORD: Thank you very much indeed.

ALAN POWER: Thank you for listening to the National Trust

Gardens podcast. If you've enjoyed this podcast, you can

subscribe or follow on your podcast app for more.

Next month, I'll be at another great garden for festive magic

at Sissinghurst in Kent. So stay warm and enjoy exploring and

we'll see you next time.

BETTANY HUGHES: I'm Bettany Hughes. I've been visiting

National Trust Properties all my life, but in this series of

podcasts, I'm going beyond the delights of teas and topiary to

reveal the surprising European roots of some of the most

splendid sites in England.

You can subscribe to my series by searching for Bettany

Hughes's 10 places, Europe and us. On your podcast app.